Masstika, I'm pretty sure that the amount of resin found in the wood, is directly connected to the mineral content of the soil around the tree, as well as amount of water the tree gets, and probably many other factors. I believe this because, these are the things I assume would dictate the health of the tree, and I assume, the healthier the tree is, the better ability it would have to fight off the fungal infection, by making this special resin. (and making more of it!) And also, I believe that the subtle and not so subtle differences that we find in oils from different regions, and even different area's of specific regions, would be directly related to the specific mineral concentrations in the soil around the trees from the different regions (as well as other factors for sure) I have no professional training in this department, but I have studied a bit of everything, and this is simply my hypothesis... it may be wrong, but I don't think it's too far off.
I think it's pretty sad that most hunters would cut a young tree like that, and hope that CITES would be placing at least half of their investments in this project, towards educating local people in their homelands and setting up an actual registry to track and protect the remaining wild trees. Because these regulations, I think will, and seem to be doing little, to protect this entity. In my limited understanding, I believe that saving this entity, requires the help of people on a local level, and until CITES is working with local people to protect local trees... well I hope, in the end, we're not left with only plantation trees and the few who've stockpiled it, but as it is, it doesn't look good. They should really have a registry where locals register the wild trees with GPS and monitor them until they are ripe. They could even credit the people who are monitoring them, so that if they decide to / need to move away, they are still rewarded in some way for their service... or just move to another area to monitor... these are just the ideas I've had in the past week, forgive me if this has been covered already.
Luckily, not everyone looks at it simply as an investment. I hope that one day, the "investors" will reconsider their approach, and look at it as more of an art, like we do.
RJK - I haven't witnessed any slanderous statements here (as of recent), let alone any worse than what was on that blog. I hope I wasn't slanderous, I wasn't meaning to be, but I guess I better look up the definition of slanderous, cause I don't quite know it exactly.
Does that mean you've read every page on this thread, if so, I'm impressed. But I still think, regardless, that it's important for people to state their mind, and that's what this thread is for isn't it? Anyway, I don't think my statement would have been that much different even had I read the thread from the very first day one. I stand behind everything that I've said, other than... ok, changed my mind, I'm not going to go there yet again. I am happy that I spoke my mind, because I think there should be more transparency and less hype with the marketing and entire business in general, and I'm happy to share these thoughts because I think it's important for people in general, and even more so some few specific people, to think about these things. I appreciate the people who are willing to share ideas and support one another in their own ventures, as well as the opportunity to share my opinions on these subject, and hear all of yours.
Sorry, Chatoya, I was just referring to the 're-bottler' remark, which got me going. My remark wasn't aimed at you at all.
all good here!
Thanks for the encouragement, Masstika :-)
@RJK, the 'clever distiller' is a Yemeni Ba Alawi resident of Tanjung Redeb, Borneo, by the name of Abdul Mu'ti Shareef. I believe I've mentioned him here before.
AgarwoodIndonesia's name is Muhammad, and he's from Java island. I consider him a brother and friend, but I have never sold any of his oils.
I hope I didn't break any forum rules, but I felt the need to clarify this matter lest people got ideas.
By the way, I don't think I needed to be dragged into this. Despite all the recent attacks and insinuations explicitly or implicitly directed at me, I thought I was doing a pretty good job staying out of the drama.
Your actual point was crystal clear, but I think you could have done it without having the need to mention me. : )
my views expressed are based on readings I have done and conversations I had and not on first hand experience since I am not an Oud hunter, distiller, framer or dealer. With that said, I had read that the "amount" of resin found in infected trees is related to:
a. Extent of infection in the tree (from sever to mild).
B. on the time the tree has been infected.
Infected Agarwood Trees secret this resin in a variety of geographical location with different soil mineral compositions (I have seen pictures of agarwood farm in Australia :-). What I am perplexed about is the insect; obviously it doesn't live to... say 10 or 20 years. So what happens when it dies or goes through metamorphosis (to become a Butterfly), do the off springs continue then on eating into the tree? and does the tree continue on secreting resin once infected or does it stop at certain point?
The issue of conservation is a difficult one for it involves a whole gamut of issues from the traditional life style of native tribes and old traditions (Agarwood Hunters) to greedy/ shady dealers hanging around hotel lobbies looking for Arabian Buyers and everything in between including the honest family man who is trying to make a living, feed his family and send his kids to school. Interesting article here:
Paying the locals I don't think works because: number one is who is going to pay and for how long? Number two' hand me downs invite corruption and dependence. Similar issues to "educate" the locals have varying levels of success such as Ivory trade in Africa and Coca Leaves growing in South America and I think the common lesson learned is that the solution has to originate from the local level through providing viable alternatives such as Similar crops with comparative yield and others. I would also dare say that the Jury is still out on the outcome of those efforts. Poverty and hunger makes people do things that normally they wouldn't do.
Hi Guys, moderator hat on. This debate is getting a little personal and nasty at times, and I'm getting Stuigi to take a look. Be good now
My understanding of the infection of agarwood trees is that the insects are vectors (carriers) of a fungus, which would presumably continue to be active even after the vector was gone. So when trees are inoculated, it's not with the insects, but rather with the fungus itself. In Australia, where commercial cultivation is beginning, I'm sure our very protective quarantine services would never allow insects to be imported into the country. A more controllable and specific fungus may be another matter.
Once again it is necessary to ask everyone to keep it civil. Unless I am wrong, "rebottling" would mean the selling of decants. Although doing so privately without revealing this might be unethical, my concern is that no one does any selling on this board and that anyone selling oudhs in the marketplace does not sell decants. Anyone who has "proof" of this can PM me about it.
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