A new ethycal standard towards perfume consumers: The eclip list

    A new ethycal standard towards perfume consumers: The eclip list

    post #1 of 21
    Thread Starter 
    For most people the only factor that determines their purchase a perfume is that they like the smell of it.
    However more people every year ask to know what is in the perfumes they purchase in order to make their choice with ethical, ideological or health criterions.
    For instance vegans do not want certain ingredients and so do allergic persons.
    The laws make it compulsory on producers to inform the customers about SOME ingredients of their products but ethics, more than law, should make every producer feel bound to inform his customers about ALL the ingredients he uses, without revealing his trade secrets of course.
    REAL INFORMATION ABOUT INGREDIENTS USED IN PERFUMES DOES NOT EXIST.
    Together with my perfumer friend Roberto Dario, who is also a chemist, we have made a complete list of all the products that can enter in the composition of perfumes.�
    We called it “Ethical complete list of ingredients for perfumes”. The ECLIP list is “ethical” because we consider that it is a moral duty from perfume producers to inform completely and truthfully perfume consumers.
    We are sharing freely the ECLIP list with the community of indie perfumers to use it as a standard declaration, because it is necessary that the profession regulates itself, not through an organism (that does not exist yet) but through the auto regulation of each and every one.
    The ECLIP list should be divided in two parts; what I use and what I do not use so that no doubt can subsist in the mind of customers about the ingredients of their perfumes.
    The ECLIP list of my ingredients is already published on my sit showing how it is working.

    I INVITE ALL MY FRIENDS OF THE CLUB TO COMMENT AND BRING A PUBLIC DISCUSSION ON MY FB PAGE ABOUT THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE ECLIP LIST PROPOSAL
    post #2 of 21
    Dear Salaam,

    Thank You for this list. It is very informative for me. Would You be so kind to explain what is wrong with

    Natural molecules (Isolates) from bio technology
    Natural molecules isolates obtained from essential oils

    More than 9 months I use spesial oils contained bio essensial oils and this is very important for me.
    Thanks.
    post #3 of 21
    Thread Starter 
    Amrita, it is nice to know an other person making perfumes on this club.
    The ECLIP list is to be used by Indie perfumers in order to inform consumers about what they use in their perfumes and what they do not use. This is the ethical point of the list, informing one's fans and customers truly and fully about the ingredients we perfumers use.
    The ECLIP is listing all the legal ingredients by types. A relatively short list that is very clear for every consumer without a PHD is chemistry.
    My own choice of ingredients I use and that I do not use is personal.
    I do not use isolates, you will find the reasons for this personal choice explained in the interview I gave to Fragrantica, just remember to inform your customers if you do, they have a right to know ALL the types of ingredients you use.
    Informing them our moral duty, even if that this information can bring lost of sales.
    post #4 of 21
    Dear Salaam, thank You for warm wellcoming and answer.
    Yesterday I have tried one new perfume (Yu) and have become interested about ingredients and producer. The smell was very nice on me and I hoped it was natural ingredients inside (price is astronomical).I have found following http://www.mane.com/jungle-essence
    What do You think is it just marketing innovation ore they are really make new ethical and natural perfumes?
    post #5 of 21
    Thread Starter 
    Amrita, Mane is not making perfumes as a main business, they sell raw materials to those who make perfumes. Among their customers are l'Oreal and Uniliver. They are in the 10 biggest of the industry. The Jungle essence is the same principle of CO2 extraction. They do it with a different gas and they have patented the process. Thats all. Otherwise Mane is producing and selling some of the best natural raw materials as well as the most polluting and dangerous synthetic molecules for human health, they are all legal. The concern of corporations is the legality of what they do, not the ethycity.
    Mane is trying hard to add the ethycal dimension to its established huge institutional image of professionalism because the trend of the market is towards ethical consumerism.
    post #6 of 21
    Salaam, I understand. They go both ways and customers have choice. They invest 10 % of the profit in innovation and part of these money they got from poison ingredients...Interesting. What do You think is it difficult to go pure natural way and to be commercial succesful ?
    post #7 of 21
    Thread Starter 
    Dear Amrita, I believe that the maximum you may hope from a honest business is to make a decent living. These are the times we live in.
    Synthetic perfumers do not run a honest business because they lie to customers when they advertise among their ingredients "Lilly of the valley", Musk, violet ecc...
    It is true that everybody does so, it is the rule, but when injustice and lies become the rule of the day, they do not become just and truthes by this fact.
    To lie in order to make a sale is one of the vilest actions a person can do.
    When I started trading in youth I first of all sudied the ethics of commerce. In the civilized world, the ethics of trade do not exist even as a science or a subject of study. Everything lawful is ethic in trade. This is the accepted truth.
    Today commerce is corrupt from its core because the aim of trade is no more service to the people but service to debt money and to the finance system.
    Keep always in your heart that commerce is service to the people, be truthful when you say something to your clients, never lie to them and never cheat on the quality, make good products and you will benefit from your trade not only in money but also in blessings.
    post #8 of 21
    i call that the, "i like to sleep at night factor". it seems everyone has an angle.
    post #9 of 21
    Thank You for the answer, Salaam. I talked with some people in Russia who sale very nice Korean cosmetic (high quality) and they told me the same things. But I still hope it is possible to do something with this in the future. Now it is much more difficult to hide the truth from the people who want to know the real things happening in the world.
    post #10 of 21
    Thread Starter 
    Amrita, hiding the truth is so easy in a world where the concept of truth, the value of does not exist any more.
    True information is easily burried under a mountain of lies.
    Yesterday Oliver Stone was speaking on Italian TV, someone was talking about democracy and he exclaimed: "what is democracy, democracy is television!"
    Do you think that people are interested in truth? My observation of life is that most people do not like the truth, they like to be believe in lies.
    post #11 of 21
    You are absolutely right, Salaam. Sometimes the truth is not hidden, but You just need to make some effort and have the courage to choose this truth. It is so scary! And in the end there are many "easy" ways, suggested by corporations...So the market for truth is very limited, it is low demand and if there is not enouhgt turnover you are commercialy dead. You have to go and work for corporation for food to support their business. Is this the part of the GAME?
    I am sure there is some elegant way to win, because it is not interesting game, when it is the same winner every time.
    post #12 of 21
    Thread Starter 
    I advise all of you to give a look to my blog last article about Luca Turin and Natural perfumery, and about the high jacking of natural perfumery trend by the Fragrance industry.
    post #13 of 21
    Salaam, it is interesting article. By the way, do You know what happened with Luca Turin?
    post #14 of 21
    Dear Salaam, what do You think about Ecocert, Nature Progres and One voice certification? Is it trustable enought to name the product Natural in your high standart understanding?
    post #15 of 21
    I am in contact with Luca Turin by emails. I don't know exactly what he's up to these days, but he responds to emails quickly.
    post #16 of 21
    Thread Starter 
    Dear Salaam, what do You think about Ecocert, Nature Progres and One voice certification? Is it trustable enought to name the product Natural in your high standart understanding?

    Amrita, these organisms are part of the system and part of the 200 billion dollars industry. All what they can do is to make a product become "legally natural". Your health is the least of the considerations that corporations take into account, the strory of corporations, past and present are so clear, but modern man is a short lived memory creature. See "The corporation" by Michael Moore.
    post #17 of 21
    Thank You for info, Bshell, I hope everything is o'k with Luca.

    Dear Salaam, yes, I saw this film.
    It is sooo sad that nothing in this industry is trustable...It is naive question, but where is truth?

    8/30/11 at 2:47pm

    Profumo said:



    For most people the only factor that determines their purchase a perfume is that they like the smell of it.
    However more people every year ask to know what is in the perfumes they purchase in order to make their choice with ethical, ideological or health criterions.
    For instance vegans do not want certain ingredients and so do allergic persons.
    The laws make it compulsory on producers to inform the customers about SOME ingredients of their products but ethics, more than law, should make every producer feel bound to inform his customers about ALL the ingredients he uses, without revealing his trade secrets of course.
    REAL INFORMATION ABOUT INGREDIENTS USED IN PERFUMES DOES NOT EXIST.
    Together with my perfumer friend Roberto Dario, who is also a chemist, we have made a complete list of all the products that can enter in the composition of perfumes.�
    We called it “Ethical complete list of ingredients for perfumes”. The ECLIP list is “ethical” because we consider that it is a moral duty from perfume producers to inform completely and truthfully perfume consumers.
    We are sharing freely the ECLIP list with the community of indie perfumers to use it as a standard declaration, because it is necessary that the profession regulates itself, not through an organism (that does not exist yet) but through the auto regulation of each and every one.
    The ECLIP list should be divided in two parts; what I use and what I do not use so that no doubt can subsist in the mind of customers about the ingredients of their perfumes.
    The ECLIP list of my ingredients is already published on my sit showing how it is working.

    I INVITE ALL MY FRIENDS OF THE CLUB TO COMMENT AND BRING A PUBLIC DISCUSSION ON MY FB PAGE ABOUT THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE ECLIP LIST PROPOSAL

    9/3/11 at 12:05pm

    AmritA said:



    Dear Salaam,

    Thank You for this list. It is very informative for me. Would You be so kind to explain what is wrong with

    Natural molecules (Isolates) from bio technology
    Natural molecules isolates obtained from essential oils

    More than 9 months I use spesial oils contained bio essensial oils and this is very important for me.
    Thanks.

    9/3/11 at 12:51pm

    Profumo said:



    Amrita, it is nice to know an other person making perfumes on this club.
    The ECLIP list is to be used by Indie perfumers in order to inform consumers about what they use in their perfumes and what they do not use. This is the ethical point of the list, informing one's fans and customers truly and fully about the ingredients we perfumers use.
    The ECLIP is listing all the legal ingredients by types. A relatively short list that is very clear for every consumer without a PHD is chemistry.
    My own choice of ingredients I use and that I do not use is personal.
    I do not use isolates, you will find the reasons for this personal choice explained in the interview I gave to Fragrantica, just remember to inform your customers if you do, they have a right to know ALL the types of ingredients you use.
    Informing them our moral duty, even if that this information can bring lost of sales.

    9/13/11 at 2:36pm

    AmritA said:



    Dear Salaam, thank You for warm wellcoming and answer.
    Yesterday I have tried one new perfume (Yu) and have become interested about ingredients and producer. The smell was very nice on me and I hoped it was natural ingredients inside (price is astronomical).I have found following http://www.mane.com/jungle-essence
    What do You think is it just marketing innovation ore they are really make new ethical and natural perfumes?

    9/13/11 at 2:56pm

    Profumo said:



    Amrita, Mane is not making perfumes as a main business, they sell raw materials to those who make perfumes. Among their customers are l'Oreal and Uniliver. They are in the 10 biggest of the industry. The Jungle essence is the same principle of CO2 extraction. They do it with a different gas and they have patented the process. Thats all. Otherwise Mane is producing and selling some of the best natural raw materials as well as the most polluting and dangerous synthetic molecules for human health, they are all legal. The concern of corporations is the legality of what they do, not the ethycity.
    Mane is trying hard to add the ethycal dimension to its established huge institutional image of professionalism because the trend of the market is towards ethical consumerism.

    9/14/11 at 9:11am

    AmritA said:



    Salaam, I understand. They go both ways and customers have choice. They invest 10 % of the profit in innovation and part of these money they got from poison ingredients...Interesting. What do You think is it difficult to go pure natural way and to be commercial succesful ?

    9/14/11 at 9:55am

    Profumo said:



    Dear Amrita, I believe that the maximum you may hope from a honest business is to make a decent living. These are the times we live in.
    Synthetic perfumers do not run a honest business because they lie to customers when they advertise among their ingredients "Lilly of the valley", Musk, violet ecc...
    It is true that everybody does so, it is the rule, but when injustice and lies become the rule of the day, they do not become just and truthes by this fact.
    To lie in order to make a sale is one of the vilest actions a person can do.
    When I started trading in youth I first of all sudied the ethics of commerce. In the civilized world, the ethics of trade do not exist even as a science or a subject of study. Everything lawful is ethic in trade. This is the accepted truth.
    Today commerce is corrupt from its core because the aim of trade is no more service to the people but service to debt money and to the finance system.
    Keep always in your heart that commerce is service to the people, be truthful when you say something to your clients, never lie to them and never cheat on the quality, make good products and you will benefit from your trade not only in money but also in blessings.

    9/15/11 at 4:29pm

    GLTASN said:



    i call that the, "i like to sleep at night factor". it seems everyone has an angle.

    9/16/11 at 9:17am

    AmritA said:



    Thank You for the answer, Salaam. I talked with some people in Russia who sale very nice Korean cosmetic (high quality) and they told me the same things. But I still hope it is possible to do something with this in the future. Now it is much more difficult to hide the truth from the people who want to know the real things happening in the world.

    9/16/11 at 11:08am

    Profumo said:



    Amrita, hiding the truth is so easy in a world where the concept of truth, the value of does not exist any more.
    True information is easily burried under a mountain of lies.
    Yesterday Oliver Stone was speaking on Italian TV, someone was talking about democracy and he exclaimed: "what is democracy, democracy is television!"
    Do you think that people are interested in truth? My observation of life is that most people do not like the truth, they like to be believe in lies.

    9/17/11 at 1:34am

    AmritA said:



    You are absolutely right, Salaam. Sometimes the truth is not hidden, but You just need to make some effort and have the courage to choose this truth. It is so scary! And in the end there are many "easy" ways, suggested by corporations...So the market for truth is very limited, it is low demand and if there is not enouhgt turnover you are commercialy dead. You have to go and work for corporation for food to support their business. Is this the part of the GAME?
    I am sure there is some elegant way to win, because it is not interesting game, when it is the same winner every time.

    9/25/11 at 3:41am

    Profumo said:



    I advise all of you to give a look to my blog last article about Luca Turin and Natural perfumery, and about the high jacking of natural perfumery trend by the Fragrance industry.

    9/29/11 at 9:53am

    AmritA said:



    Salaam, it is interesting article. By the way, do You know what happened with Luca Turin?

    9/29/11 at 9:59am

    AmritA said:



    Dear Salaam, what do You think about Ecocert, Nature Progres and One voice certification? Is it trustable enought to name the product Natural in your high standart understanding?

    9/30/11 at 11:48am

    bshell said:



    I am in contact with Luca Turin by emails. I don't know exactly what he's up to these days, but he responds to emails quickly.

    10/1/11 at 1:02am

    Profumo said:



    Dear Salaam, what do You think about Ecocert, Nature Progres and One voice certification? Is it trustable enought to name the product Natural in your high standart understanding?

    Amrita, these organisms are part of the system and part of the 200 billion dollars industry. All what they can do is to make a product become "legally natural". Your health is the least of the considerations that corporations take into account, the strory of corporations, past and present are so clear, but modern man is a short lived memory creature. See "The corporation" by Michael Moore.

    10/1/11 at 1:23pm

    AmritA said:



    Thank You for info, Bshell, I hope everything is o'k with Luca.

    Dear Salaam, yes, I saw this film.
    It is sooo sad that nothing in this industry is trustable...It is naive question, but where is truth?





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