"OUD CARAVAN N° 1" NEW FRAGRANCE PROJECT

    "OUD CARAVAN N° 1" NEW FRAGRANCE PROJECT

    post #1 of 108
    Thread Starter 
    The new fragrance of the Arabian series, Oud Caravan, is under construction.

    The project:
    The new fragrance project, Oud Caravan, consists in having registered Basenotes.net perfumistas participate in the making of this perfume.

    Samples of the first version from which we start, are already available and the discussion is opened on this thread to comment it. I shall eventually perfect the fragrance from the comments and suggestions of basenoters.

    The concept of Oud Caravan:
    My purpose with Oud Caravan is to compose the Ultimate Oud Fragrance. A real challenge.

    The concept has been expressed on the preliminary discussion we had on this group: Natural perfumery is like jewelry, because we are really dealing here with olfactory jewels. A perfect rubi can be exhibited and admired for itself, but when you set it onto a golden ring with small diamonds, the rubi's perfection is underlined and even enhanced by the other gems. This is my idea, an Oud better than Oud, "the Ultimate Oud Fragrance".

    The protocols of the project:
    To judge the perfume and help me perfect it, there will be:

    1.) A panel of 10 Oud fans from Basenotes.net chosen by Masstika. He called them a difficult lot to satisfy.

    2.) All perfumistas are invited to participate as well in the discussions and express their ideas and help us. They just have to register with this group.

    New samples will be available for every modification of the perfume (probably 2 or 3)

    The samples:

    1.) The panel of 10 Oud fans from Basenotes.net will receive the free samples directly.

    2.) All perfumistas registered in this group can get free samples as usual at The Perfumed Court. When you place an order for your decants, a free sample of Oud Caravan will be added, you just have to be registered members of the group and give your nickname to Lisa of TPC.
    There is only one other condition for getting the free samples, you must order decants of fragrances only from Natural Perfumers on TPC. The natural perfumers TPC holds are: Ajne, Strange Invisible Perfumes, Ayala Sender (soon), Mandy Aftel, Abdessalaam Attar.

    3.) You can also order first version of Oud Caravan right now at www.profumo.it. It is available in different sizes. Future versions will also be available on www.profumo.it as the perfume is changed. Moreover, anyone ordering anything on profumo.it will also receive a free sample of Oud Caravan by simply requesting it under "comments" when you place your order.

    Limitation:
    The project is for perfumistas only, professional perfumers not admitted in this project.



    More pictures are available here
    post #2 of 108
    Thanks for the info. The picture prompts a question for me: are you doing the fragrance as an attar rather than an alcohol-based spray? I don't necessarily have a preference, I'm just curious.

    I'd be interested to smell the preliminary versions and possibly participate in the sampling group, but I don't know a lot about oud, and my nose isn't the best in the world. I don't mind too much if those factors rule me out - I'm happy to stand back and let more experienced noses give their input. I'll definitely look forward to sampling the finished product anyway, I'm sure it'll be great.
    post #3 of 108
    Thread Starter 
    WillC, nobody is ruled out of the project. It will be the occasion for you to learn something and your input is as important as the one of the experts in Oud because the perfume is meant for all people and it should be good for experts and non experts as well.
    The perfume Oud Caravan should be available also in Attar (pure essence) form in due time.
    post #4 of 108
    This is very exciting Profumo. I don't want to veer off the subject but I do have a question as well since you mention possibilities for a future Attar. Can a blend of essential oils in a base of sandalwood oil be considered an Attar too or does it have to go by the rules of ancient attars where the raw material was distilled directly into the sandalwood oil?
    post #5 of 108
    Thread Starter 
    The modern meaning of attar is different from the ancient one. Is called Attars a perfume composed of different pure essences (natural or not) or a pure essence (Rose Attar). But you will find in the shops scents who contain vegetal or mineral oils that are still called Attar by the seller. It is a very vague term in practice, that can mean anything.
    Rose Attar should mean pure essential oil of rose, but even chemical one is sold as such. The only thing that you can surely expect from a scent called Attar is that it is in a small bottle and without alcohol
    post #6 of 108
    Thank you for the explanation Salaam.
    post #7 of 108
    I am sorry Salaam, but when I see the name of the perfume I feel a camel and the sand smell...
    post #8 of 108
    Thread Starter 
    You are right Amrita, the name tells the story, an that is the story of an Oud spicy and animalic.
    You will soon be able to smell it, I shall send the free samples to TPC on Monday.
    post #9 of 108
    The picture in the 1st Post shows a bottle a burner and some lovely looking Oud chips.
    Where are those Oud Chips from and what kind are they?
    post #10 of 108
    Thread Starter 
    The Oud on the picture is from Mecca, I do not know the origin because it was presents made by friends when I travelled there. You never ask about a gift from an arab person, you should just know that it is the best quality.
    post #11 of 108
    Eid Mubarak Profumo. Is the perfume you're working on will contain alcohol or is it in the form of Mukhalat without alcohol? and what has been your inspiration so far?
    post #12 of 108
    Thread Starter 
    Eid Mubarak Masstika. Oud Caravan is to ba a perfume in alcohol as seen on the pictures. I was asked for an Oud perfume by the person who comissioned me the Arab Series for the Gulf market. This should be an Oud for knowledgeable Oud lovers. The inspiration for the smell itself came first of all from the name which we found during a brain storm session in Riyadh and then became clearer from our first discussion on this group with Basenoters.
    post #13 of 108
    Thread Starter 
    Michelyn Camen gave me the occasion to explain the Oud Caravan project and the philosophy behind it in an interview on Cafleurebon.
    I invite you to discover the explanation on the Perfume Evolution that we are living in the present years.
    Unconventional thoughts about perfumery blogs
    Bloggers have been increasingly courting the industry for recognition (Fifis awards, seats in committees, invitations to events) and some of them are losing sight of their original mission of promoting conscious consumerism.

    About the perfume industry
    The industry cannot anymore impose its own criterions and logic, the consumer is gradually gaining the power to impose his will to shape the products, and the refusal of the industry to compromise is digging a growing abyss between what the people really want and what the industry offers.

    About philosophy of perfume
    My philosophy as a natural perfumer is to produce Real perfumes made for real people with real ingredients.I am wondering what philosophy is behind synthetic crap made for profits with deceptive marketing

    About Indie perfumers
    The new generation of perfumers are friendly, idealistic and passionate, the opposite of what a perfume corporation is.

    A draw for a bottle of Oud Caravan and much more on CAFLEUREBON

    I shall be glad to have your comments.

    The free samples for the Perfumed court and for Masstika have left yesterday.
    post #14 of 108
    Salaam profumo, I have a question that I have also posted on the Oud Thread but have not received an answer and I was wondering if you can shed some light on the subject;
    why synthetics oils remain distinctly different from natural ones even though the molecule structures of the synthetics match the natural ones? Is it because it is never a true match or is it because of the presence of other materials that are not or could not be duplicated in the synthetic form?
    post #15 of 108
    masstika- you got me curious too, this response is to your question by Christopher of whitelotusaromatics being shared here with his permission
    if felt it would be beneficial or helpful:

    Kind greetings!
    The answer is not a simple one and requires a good background in chemistry to fully understand it but in a simple way one might say that natural aromatic molecules or isolates as they are sometimes called are optically active whereas the same molecule or isolate created in the laboratory are optically inactive.
    If you are interested in that subject you can study it further on wikipedia and there are probably many other sources that can give you even more information.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_rotation


    Another very interesting thing is that if you isolate a particular molecule from a natural botanical source for instance geraniol-
    that geraniol molecule will display different aromatic characteristics due to the the source from which it is isolated like lemongrass, palmarosa, geranium etc. Even though the molecule itself appears substantially the same-the optical rotation and odor of that geraniol molecule will display different aromatic properties within certain parameters. Even the cost of that same natural molecule if one would be buying natural isolates could be hugely different. Within that natural aromatic molecule there are yet smaller particles called isomers that, at least in part influence the odor.
    None of these things take place in a sythentic molecule produced in a laboratory because it is optically inactive(has no optical rotation)
    What it all means is beyond me-but as you asked I have provided a reply up to the extent I am capable of replying.
    Christopher
    post #16 of 108
    Sorry, I have to chime in because the above answer displays a fundamental misunderstanding of basic organic chemistry. Almost all molecules display some kind of optical rotation properties. This is not the simple reason why isolates or synthetic molecules might be inferior to natural essential oils. Frankly, I don't know the true reason, and maybe nobody does, but the most likely ones are the following two possibilities.

    1. When a molecule is in its natural essential oil, there will be dozens if not hundreds of other molecules along with it that may influence how it smells, or how it interacts with other molecules in the fragrance mix. These cannot be duplicated completely perfectly in a synthetic mix. It is this complexity that is important.

    2. When a molecule is synthesized there are ALWAYS side reaction products that will be mixed with the synthetic product, no matter how pure it may be. These may have an undesirable influence on the smell or on the interaction of the odourant on other molecules in the mix.

    As for optical properties, i.e. whether the molecule is right or left-handed, or chair or boat enantiomer, etc. all this can now be controlled in modern synthetic chemistry processes, and the highest quality synthetic odour molecules are truly optically pure, and that's why they smell better and cost more. But even in these, which are all supposed to be left-handed for best smell, there will be impurities of the other right handed molecule to some small percentage. I suspect that in nature this would not happen.

    But this is the key point: in Nature there are many mysteries that science has not discovered. The fact is, scientists do not know how the sense of smell really works. There are theories, but we don't truly know. If we did know, then we'd have smell machines, and smell copiers, and smell computers, smell transmitters, etc. But we don't know how it works in the same way we know how the eye and thclass="

    10/29/11 at 12:32am

    Profumo said:



    The new fragrance of the Arabian series, Oud Caravan, is under construction.

    The project:
    The new fragrance project, Oud Caravan, consists in having registered Basenotes.net perfumistas participate in the making of this perfume.

    Samples of the first version from which we start, are already available and the discussion is opened on this thread to comment it. I shall eventually perfect the fragrance from the comments and suggestions of basenoters.

    The concept of Oud Caravan:
    My purpose with Oud Caravan is to compose the Ultimate Oud Fragrance. A real challenge.

    The concept has been expressed on the preliminary discussion we had on this group: Natural perfumery is like jewelry, because we are really dealing here with olfactory jewels. A perfect rubi can be exhibited and admired for itself, but when you set it onto a golden ring with small diamonds, the rubi's perfection is underlined and even enhanced by the other gems. This is my idea, an Oud better than Oud, "the Ultimate Oud Fragrance".

    The protocols of the project:
    To judge the perfume and help me perfect it, there will be:

    1.) A panel of 10 Oud fans from Basenotes.net chosen by Masstika. He called them a difficult lot to satisfy.

    2.) All perfumistas are invited to participate as well in the discussions and express their ideas and help us. They just have to register with this group.

    New samples will be available for every modification of the perfume (probably 2 or 3)

    The samples:

    1.) The panel of 10 Oud fans from Basenotes.net will receive the free samples directly.

    2.) All perfumistas registered in this group can get free samples as usual at The Perfumed Court. When you place an order for your decants, a free sample of Oud Caravan will be added, you just have to be registered members of the group and give your nickname to Lisa of TPC.
    There is only one other condition for getting the free samples, you must order decants of fragrances only from Natural Perfumers on TPC. The natural perfumers TPC holds are: Ajne, Strange Invisible Perfumes, Ayala Sender (soon), Mandy Aftel, Abdessalaam Attar.

    3.) You can also order first version of Oud Caravan right now at www.profumo.it. It is available in different sizes. Future versions will also be available on www.profumo.it as the perfume is changed. Moreover, anyone ordering anything on profumo.it will also receive a free sample of Oud Caravan by simply requesting it under "comments" when you place your order.

    Limitation:
    The project is for perfumistas only, professional perfumers not admitted in this project.



    More pictures are available here

    10/30/11 at 5:04pm

    WillC said:



    Thanks for the info. The picture prompts a question for me: are you doing the fragrance as an attar rather than an alcohol-based spray? I don't necessarily have a preference, I'm just curious.

    I'd be interested to smell the preliminary versions and possibly participate in the sampling group, but I don't know a lot about oud, and my nose isn't the best in the world. I don't mind too much if those factors rule me out - I'm happy to stand back and let more experienced noses give their input. I'll definitely look forward to sampling the finished product anyway, I'm sure it'll be great.

    10/30/11 at 9:06pm

    Profumo said:



    WillC, nobody is ruled out of the project. It will be the occasion for you to learn something and your input is as important as the one of the experts in Oud because the perfume is meant for all people and it should be good for experts and non experts as well.
    The perfume Oud Caravan should be available also in Attar (pure essence) form in due time.

    10/31/11 at 6:54am

    Puente said:



    This is very exciting Profumo. I don't want to veer off the subject but I do have a question as well since you mention possibilities for a future Attar. Can a blend of essential oils in a base of sandalwood oil be considered an Attar too or does it have to go by the rules of ancient attars where the raw material was distilled directly into the sandalwood oil?

    10/31/11 at 7:03am

    Profumo said:



    The modern meaning of attar is different from the ancient one. Is called Attars a perfume composed of different pure essences (natural or not) or a pure essence (Rose Attar). But you will find in the shops scents who contain vegetal or mineral oils that are still called Attar by the seller. It is a very vague term in practice, that can mean anything.
    Rose Attar should mean pure essential oil of rose, but even chemical one is sold as such. The only thing that you can surely expect from a scent called Attar is that it is in a small bottle and without alcohol

    10/31/11 at 8:30am

    Puente said:



    Thank you for the explanation Salaam.

    11/4/11 at 9:46am

    AmritA said:



    I am sorry Salaam, but when I see the name of the perfume I feel a camel and the sand smell...

    11/4/11 at 10:26am

    Profumo said:



    You are right Amrita, the name tells the story, an that is the story of an Oud spicy and animalic.
    You will soon be able to smell it, I shall send the free samples to TPC on Monday.

    11/4/11 at 10:32am

    Guest said:



    The picture in the 1st Post shows a bottle a burner and some lovely looking Oud chips.
    Where are those Oud Chips from and what kind are they?

    11/4/11 at 11:39am

    Profumo said:



    The Oud on the picture is from Mecca, I do not know the origin because it was presents made by friends when I travelled there. You never ask about a gift from an arab person, you should just know that it is the best quality.

    11/5/11 at 10:10pm

    masstika said:



    Eid Mubarak Profumo. Is the perfume you're working on will contain alcohol or is it in the form of Mukhalat without alcohol? and what has been your inspiration so far?

    11/5/11 at 11:15pm

    Profumo said:



    Eid Mubarak Masstika. Oud Caravan is to ba a perfume in alcohol as seen on the pictures. I was asked for an Oud perfume by the person who comissioned me the Arab Series for the Gulf market. This should be an Oud for knowledgeable Oud lovers. The inspiration for the smell itself came first of all from the name which we found during a brain storm session in Riyadh and then became clearer from our first discussion on this group with Basenoters.

    11/7/11 at 10:21pm

    Profumo said:



    Michelyn Camen gave me the occasion to explain the Oud Caravan project and the philosophy behind it in an interview on Cafleurebon.
    I invite you to discover the explanation on the Perfume Evolution that we are living in the present years.
    Unconventional thoughts about perfumery blogs
    Bloggers have been increasingly courting the industry for recognition (Fifis awards, seats in committees, invitations to events) and some of them are losing sight of their original mission of promoting conscious consumerism.

    About the perfume industry
    The industry cannot anymore impose its own criterions and logic, the consumer is gradually gaining the power to impose his will to shape the products, and the refusal of the industry to compromise is digging a growing abyss between what the people really want and what the industry offers.

    About philosophy of perfume
    My philosophy as a natural perfumer is to produce Real perfumes made for real people with real ingredients.I am wondering what philosophy is behind synthetic crap made for profits with deceptive marketing

    About Indie perfumers
    The new generation of perfumers are friendly, idealistic and passionate, the opposite of what a perfume corporation is.

    A draw for a bottle of Oud Caravan and much more on CAFLEUREBON

    I shall be glad to have your comments.

    The free samples for the Perfumed court and for Masstika have left yesterday.

    11/8/11 at 7:42am

    masstika said:



    Salaam profumo, I have a question that I have also posted on the Oud Thread but have not received an answer and I was wondering if you can shed some light on the subject;
    why synthetics oils remain distinctly different from natural ones even though the molecule structures of the synthetics match the natural ones? Is it because it is never a true match or is it because of the presence of other materials that are not or could not be duplicated in the synthetic form?

    11/8/11 at 2:10pm

    Guest said:



    masstika- you got me curious too, this response is to your question by Christopher of whitelotusaromatics being shared here with his permission
    if felt it would be beneficial or helpful:

    Kind greetings!
    The answer is not a simple one and requires a good background in chemistry to fully understand it but in a simple way one might say that natural aromatic molecules or isolates as they are sometimes called are optically active whereas the same molecule or isolate created in the laboratory are optically inactive.
    If you are interested in that subject you can study it further on wikipedia and there are probably many other sources that can give you even more information.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_rotation


    Another very interesting thing is that if you isolate a particular molecule from a natural botanical source for instance geraniol-
    that geraniol molecule will display different aromatic characteristics due to the the source from which it is isolated like lemongrass, palmarosa, geranium etc. Even though the molecule itself appears substantially the same-the optical rotation and odor of that geraniol molecule will display different aromatic properties within certain parameters. Even the cost of that same natural molecule if one would be buying natural isolates could be hugely different. Within that natural aromatic molecule there are yet smaller particles called isomers that, at least in part influence the odor.
    None of these things take place in a sythentic molecule produced in a laboratory because it is optically inactive(has no optical rotation)
    What it all means is beyond me-but as you asked I have provided a reply up to the extent I am capable of replying.
    Christopher

    11/8/11 at 4:32pm

    bshell said:



    Sorry, I have to chime in because the above answer displays a fundamental misunderstanding of basic organic chemistry. Almost all molecules display some kind of optical rotation properties. This is not the simple reason why isolates or synthetic molecules might be inferior to natural essential oils. Frankly, I don't know the true reason, and maybe nobody does, but the most likely ones are the following two possibilities.

    1. When a molecule is in its natural essential oil, there will be dozens if not hundreds of other molecules along with it that may influence how it smells, or how it interacts with other molecules in the fragrance mix. These cannot be duplicated completely perfectly in a synthetic mix. It is this complexity that is important.

    2. When a molecule is synthesized there are ALWAYS side reaction products that will be mixed with the synthetic product, no matter how pure it may be. These may have an undesirable influence on the smell or on the interaction of the odourant on other molecules in the mix.

    As for optical properties, i.e. whether the molecule is right or left-handed, or chair or boat enantiomer, etc. all this can now be controlled in modern synthetic chemistry processes, and the highest quality synthetic odour molecules are truly optically pure, and that's why they smell better and cost more. But even in these, which are all supposed to be left-handed for best smell, there will be impurities of the other right handed molecule to some small percentage. I suspect that in nature this would not happen.

    But this is the key point: in Nature there are many mysteries that science has not discovered. The fact is, scientists do not know how the sense of smell really works. There are theories, but we don't truly know. If we did know, then we'd have smell machines, and smell copiers, and smell computers, smell transmitters, etc. But we don't know how it works in the same way we know how the eye and thclass="





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