Lily of the valley essential oil

    Lily of the valley essential oil

    post #1 of 20
    Thread Starter 
    I am trying to find the above essential oil or absolute but having no luck. All I can find is the fragrance oil with we all know are a bit hit and miss, if anyone can recommend a good accord then I would be very grateful!
    post #2 of 20

    Curtis and Williams give the following skeleton formula (which I haven't tried.)  Actually, they give three, but you're going to have to buy the book if you want the others. smiley.gif

     

    Lyral 83

    alpha ionone 20

    Benzaldehye 1% 1

    Citronellol 28

    Linalool 55

    Benzyl acetate 5

    cis-3-Hexenyl acetate 1% 20

     

    Extenders:

     

    Benzyl propionate 8

    Benzyl salicylate 10

    Phenylpropyl alcohol 6

     

    -

    post #3 of 20
    Thread Starter 
    Thank you for that it looks very interesting I will be trying that accord. I am surprised not to see lilial listed in the ingredients.
    Just one more question, do the numbers next to the ingredient mean parts or drops?
    post #4 of 20

    You simply won't find a Lily of the Valley EO or Absolute.

     

    There are any number of Lily of the valley type aromachems however...

    post #5 of 20

    There is no Muguet extract available although I did know of someone who made a pomade via enfleurage.   I once made an accord based on Headspace analysis of the flowers growing in my garden.   Of course I don't remember the details (it was a fairly long formula) but the major components were laevo Citronellol and Geraniol.   Lots of other chemicals at trace amounts.

     

    Here is Poucher's formula which is based on Hydroxycitronellal (as was original Diorissimo):-

     

    Benzyl Acetate  25

    Linalol  30

    Dimethyl Benzy Carbinol  50

    Bergamot Oil (or synthetic)  20

    Citronellyl Formate  20

    Rhodinol (or Geraniol)  150

    Heliotropin  40

    Ylang Ylang Oil (or synthetic) 10

    Cinnamic Alcohol  150

    Hydroxycitronellal  500

    Cyclamen Aldehyde  5

     

    Total=1000

     

    by weight.


    Edited by David Ruskin - 5/20/13 at 1:20am
    post #6 of 20

    Most perfumers regard Hydroxycitronellal as the closest single material to the scent of Lily of the Valley.  Depending on whether you are concerned with IFRA restrictions you may need to limit how much you use though (1% of the finished fragrance).  Both lilial and lyral can be used successfully alongside it (IFRA limits of 1.9% and 0.2% respectively though there is talk of lyral being banned altogether).

     

    Other good materials to consider include Silvial (1.04%), Florhydral and Dupical (not restricted).

     

    The Curtis & Williams formula is intended to be an educational experiment and so the amounts are given in drops - in another part of the book they do suggest using lilial as part of such an experiment.

     

    Personally I would start with the Poucher accord and try replacing some of the high proportion of hydroxycitronellal with alternatives until you're happy with it. Heliotropin can be difficult to get hold of now, but you could try veratraldehyde instead. I certainly think using some bergamot and ylang is likely to help.

    post #7 of 20

    Strange that Hydroxycitronellal isn't present in the headspace of Lily of the Valley (it's not natural), and yet it smells so right.

     

    I remember that Farnesol, Phenylacetaldehyde and Phenyl Acetic Acid are present.   Oh yes, and Indole; lots of Indole. 

    post #8 of 20

    I don't suppose you still have that headspace analysis do you David? I'd love to have a go at creating something with that as a starting point myself.

     

    BTW I'm a fan of indole - classic white flowers ingredient and never bettered (although the Indocolore that Firmenich demonstrated at BSPODS on Thursday was pretty damned good it isn't quite as floral as the real thing).

    post #9 of 20
    Thread Starter 
    I have been looking at the perfumers apprentice lily fragrance oil, does anyone have any experience with there fragrance oils? and or the muguet blend\accord?
    post #10 of 20

    Chris, I'm afraid I left all my formulae back at CPL when I left.   I've not heard of Indocolore (guess I'm losing touch already); is it like Indolarome?

    post #11 of 20

    In terms of the natural oil or absolute, I thought of "Victory-Inc." who have some rare (and absurdly expensive) things indeed; if anyone would have the real thing, it would be them.  Yet they don't have it. Looks like they have tried though: Here's what they have to say about Lily of the Valley: http://www.victorie-inc.us/lily_of_the_valley.html . Worth checking out too is their enfleurage/maceration page, where they do have some natural lily products: http://www.victorie-inc.us/floral-enfluerage.html

    post #12 of 20

    I do have a line on real Lily oil (Star Lily or garden Lily) from enfleurage techniques, directly from the MFR..  but not Lily of the Valley  - anything.

    post #13 of 20
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post

    Chris, I'm afraid I left all my formulae back at CPL when I left.   I've not heard of Indocolore (guess I'm losing touch already); is it like Indolarome?

    Ah shame.  Indocolore is new (and not cheap) from Firmenich - I'd say it's like Indolarome but truer to indole, without the scatole element but not quite as floral as real indole.  Its great advantage is it does not discolour as indole does.  More important for functional perfumery than it is in fine fragrance of course.

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gecko214 View Post

    In terms of the natural oil or absolute, I thought of "Victory-Inc." who have some rare (and absurdly expensive) things indeed; if anyone would have the real thing, it would be them.  Yet they don't have it. Looks like they have tried though: Here's what they have to say about Lily of the Valley: http://www.victorie-inc.us/lily_of_the_valley.html . Worth checking out too is their enfleurage/maceration page, where they do have some natural lily products: http://www.victorie-inc.us/floral-enfluerage.html

     

    I have tried several of the Victorie Lily materials and they are very lovely, but not really strong enough to make perfume with - as soon as you blend them with anything else they are overwhelmed - I'm sure it would be possible to make a very nice solid perfume with them, but they are so expensive the fragrance would retail for £1000 for a few grams: still cheap compared to Clive Christian of course, but probably out of the reach of most of my customers.

    post #14 of 20

    Thanks Chris, most interesting.   Non discolouring materials are always useful; we had many customers who demanded a non discolouring product up to and including fine fragrances.

    post #15 of 20

    Here's a headspace analysis....

     

    In a study on the headspace of lily-of-the-valley flowers using GC-MS and GC-sniffing/GC-olfactometry techniques, Brumke, Ritter and Schmaus from the company Dragoco (today Symrise, Germany) identified some 23 compounds contributing to the lily-of-the-valley fragrance, among these several newly detected trace constituents. The odorants could be divided into floral-rosy-citrusy notes: citronellol (9.6 %), geraniol (8.4%), nerol (1.3 %), citronellyl acetate (1.1 %), geranyl acetate (3.3 %), geranial + benzyl acetate (0.96 %), neral (0.02 %), benzyl acohol (35 %), phenethyl alcohol (0.78 %), phenylacetonitrile (3.0 %), farnesol (1.9 %) and 2,3-dihydrofarnesol (0.88 %), green-grassy notes: (Z)-3-hexen-1-ol (11 %), (Z)-3-hexenyl acetate (7.8 %), (Z)-3-hexenal (trace) and (E)-2-hexenal (0.18 %), green pea and galbanum-like notes: 2-isopropyl-3-methoxypyrazine (trace) and 2-isobutyl-3-methoxypyrazine (trace), fatty, waxy, aldehydic notes: octanal (0.15 %), nonanal (0.1 %), decanal (0.07 %) and fruity, raspberry notes: beta-ionone (trace). In another study of lily-of-the-valley, phenylacetaldehyde oxime was identified (source Bo Jensen)
     

    post #16 of 20

    They missed out Linalol which I know was in the Headspace analysis I based my work on.   In my Lily of the Valley base I used Ho Oil as a natural source of Linalol.

    post #17 of 20

    Most interesting. Thank you for that headspace analysis.

    5/19/13 at 12:16pm

    rob2982 said:



    I am trying to find the above essential oil or absolute but having no luck. All I can find is the fragrance oil with we all know are a bit hit and miss, if anyone can recommend a good accord then I would be very grateful!

    5/19/13 at 12:40pm

    Skelly said:



    Curtis and Williams give the following skeleton formula (which I haven't tried.)  Actually, they give three, but you're going to have to buy the book if you want the others. smiley.gif

     

    Lyral 83

    alpha ionone 20

    Benzaldehye 1% 1

    Citronellol 28

    Linalool 55

    Benzyl acetate 5

    cis-3-Hexenyl acetate 1% 20

     

    Extenders:

     

    Benzyl propionate 8

    Benzyl salicylate 10

    Phenylpropyl alcohol 6

     

    -

    5/19/13 at 1:49pm

    rob2982 said:



    Thank you for that it looks very interesting I will be trying that accord. I am surprised not to see lilial listed in the ingredients.
    Just one more question, do the numbers next to the ingredient mean parts or drops?

    5/19/13 at 4:28pm

    pkiler said:



    You simply won't find a Lily of the Valley EO or Absolute.

     

    There are any number of Lily of the valley type aromachems however...

    5/20/13 at 12:21am

    David Ruskin said:



    There is no Muguet extract available although I did know of someone who made a pomade via enfleurage.   I once made an accord based on Headspace analysis of the flowers growing in my garden.   Of course I don't remember the details (it was a fairly long formula) but the major components were laevo Citronellol and Geraniol.   Lots of other chemicals at trace amounts.

     

    Here is Poucher's formula which is based on Hydroxycitronellal (as was original Diorissimo):-

     

    Benzyl Acetate  25

    Linalol  30

    Dimethyl Benzy Carbinol  50

    Bergamot Oil (or synthetic)  20

    Citronellyl Formate  20

    Rhodinol (or Geraniol)  150

    Heliotropin  40

    Ylang Ylang Oil (or synthetic) 10

    Cinnamic Alcohol  150

    Hydroxycitronellal  500

    Cyclamen Aldehyde  5

     

    Total=1000

     

    by weight.


    Edited by David Ruskin - 5/20/13 at 1:20am

    5/20/13 at 9:52am

    Chris Bartlett said:



    Most perfumers regard Hydroxycitronellal as the closest single material to the scent of Lily of the Valley.  Depending on whether you are concerned with IFRA restrictions you may need to limit how much you use though (1% of the finished fragrance).  Both lilial and lyral can be used successfully alongside it (IFRA limits of 1.9% and 0.2% respectively though there is talk of lyral being banned altogether).

     

    Other good materials to consider include Silvial (1.04%), Florhydral and Dupical (not restricted).

     

    The Curtis & Williams formula is intended to be an educational experiment and so the amounts are given in drops - in another part of the book they do suggest using lilial as part of such an experiment.

     

    Personally I would start with the Poucher accord and try replacing some of the high proportion of hydroxycitronellal with alternatives until you're happy with it. Heliotropin can be difficult to get hold of now, but you could try veratraldehyde instead. I certainly think using some bergamot and ylang is likely to help.

    5/20/13 at 9:58am

    David Ruskin said:



    Strange that Hydroxycitronellal isn't present in the headspace of Lily of the Valley (it's not natural), and yet it smells so right.

     

    I remember that Farnesol, Phenylacetaldehyde and Phenyl Acetic Acid are present.   Oh yes, and Indole; lots of Indole. 

    5/20/13 at 10:07am

    Chris Bartlett said:



    I don't suppose you still have that headspace analysis do you David? I'd love to have a go at creating something with that as a starting point myself.

     

    BTW I'm a fan of indole - classic white flowers ingredient and never bettered (although the Indocolore that Firmenich demonstrated at BSPODS on Thursday was pretty damned good it isn't quite as floral as the real thing).

    5/20/13 at 12:45pm

    rob2982 said:



    I have been looking at the perfumers apprentice lily fragrance oil, does anyone have any experience with there fragrance oils? and or the muguet blend\accord?

    5/21/13 at 12:37am

    David Ruskin said:



    Chris, I'm afraid I left all my formulae back at CPL when I left.   I've not heard of Indocolore (guess I'm losing touch already); is it like Indolarome?

    5/22/13 at 2:19am

    gecko214 said:



    In terms of the natural oil or absolute, I thought of "Victory-Inc." who have some rare (and absurdly expensive) things indeed; if anyone would have the real thing, it would be them.  Yet they don't have it. Looks like they have tried though: Here's what they have to say about Lily of the Valley: http://www.victorie-inc.us/lily_of_the_valley.html . Worth checking out too is their enfleurage/maceration page, where they do have some natural lily products: http://www.victorie-inc.us/floral-enfluerage.html

    5/22/13 at 9:34am

    pkiler said:



    I do have a line on real Lily oil (Star Lily or garden Lily) from enfleurage techniques, directly from the MFR..  but not Lily of the Valley  - anything.

    5/23/13 at 4:27am

    Chris Bartlett said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post

    Chris, I'm afraid I left all my formulae back at CPL when I left.   I've not heard of Indocolore (guess I'm losing touch already); is it like Indolarome?

    Ah shame.  Indocolore is new (and not cheap) from Firmenich - I'd say it's like Indolarome but truer to indole, without the scatole element but not quite as floral as real indole.  Its great advantage is it does not discolour as indole does.  More important for functional perfumery than it is in fine fragrance of course.

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gecko214 View Post

    In terms of the natural oil or absolute, I thought of "Victory-Inc." who have some rare (and absurdly expensive) things indeed; if anyone would have the real thing, it would be them.  Yet they don't have it. Looks like they have tried though: Here's what they have to say about Lily of the Valley: http://www.victorie-inc.us/lily_of_the_valley.html . Worth checking out too is their enfleurage/maceration page, where they do have some natural lily products: http://www.victorie-inc.us/floral-enfluerage.html

     

    I have tried several of the Victorie Lily materials and they are very lovely, but not really strong enough to make perfume with - as soon as you blend them with anything else they are overwhelmed - I'm sure it would be possible to make a very nice solid perfume with them, but they are so expensive the fragrance would retail for £1000 for a few grams: still cheap compared to Clive Christian of course, but probably out of the reach of most of my customers.

    5/24/13 at 12:49am

    David Ruskin said:



    Thanks Chris, most interesting.   Non discolouring materials are always useful; we had many customers who demanded a non discolouring product up to and including fine fragrances.

    6/3/13 at 11:15am

    itunu said:



    Here's a headspace analysis....

     

    In a study on the headspace of lily-of-the-valley flowers using GC-MS and GC-sniffing/GC-olfactometry techniques, Brumke, Ritter and Schmaus from the company Dragoco (today Symrise, Germany) identified some 23 compounds contributing to the lily-of-the-valley fragrance, among these several newly detected trace constituents. The odorants could be divided into floral-rosy-citrusy notes: citronellol (9.6 %), geraniol (8.4%), nerol (1.3 %), citronellyl acetate (1.1 %), geranyl acetate (3.3 %), geranial + benzyl acetate (0.96 %), neral (0.02 %), benzyl acohol (35 %), phenethyl alcohol (0.78 %), phenylacetonitrile (3.0 %), farnesol (1.9 %) and 2,3-dihydrofarnesol (0.88 %), green-grassy notes: (Z)-3-hexen-1-ol (11 %), (Z)-3-hexenyl acetate (7.8 %), (Z)-3-hexenal (trace) and (E)-2-hexenal (0.18 %), green pea and galbanum-like notes: 2-isopropyl-3-methoxypyrazine (trace) and 2-isobutyl-3-methoxypyrazine (trace), fatty, waxy, aldehydic notes: octanal (0.15 %), nonanal (0.1 %), decanal (0.07 %) and fruity, raspberry notes: beta-ionone (trace). In another study of lily-of-the-valley, phenylacetaldehyde oxime was identified (source Bo Jensen)
     

    6/4/13 at 12:48am

    David Ruskin said:



    They missed out Linalol which I know was in the Headspace analysis I based my work on.   In my Lily of the Valley base I used Ho Oil as a natural source of Linalol.

    6/4/13 at 4:20am

    mumsy said:



    Most interesting. Thank you for that headspace analysis.