Noob- Trying to create a wood smoke/smoke scent. Advice?

    Noob- Trying to create a wood smoke/smoke scent. Advice?

    post #1 of 13
    Thread Starter 

    Very new to formulating using essential oils and natural ingredients only. Does anyone have any idea what essential oils or natural extracts I can use to create a wood smoke/smokey scent? I'd appreciate any advice, I have a TON of essential oils on hand to work with.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated : )

    post #2 of 13

    You could try birch tar, cade oil or guaiacol.

    post #3 of 13

    Cedarwood EO China- Thuja Orientalis, Guaiacwood EO, Choya Nakh, Choya Ral, Choya Loban, Birch Tar Rectified... Try the TGSC Perfumer's search page, and type in Smoky...

    http://www.perfumersearch.com/

    post #4 of 13

    In my admittedly limited experience, cade at more than about 0.5% (and probably less) overwhelms with burning leaves/campfire/wood stove smokiness. Birch tar smells more to me like wood that has been burned and left to sit for awhile (with a hint of the birchy wintergreen floating above it). Guaiacwood smells like wet ashes and very vaguely like bacon to me - but much less overwhelming than the cade/birch tar. The vetiver I have is pretty smoky as well.

    post #5 of 13

    Yes, *some* gauiacwood goes towards bacon, look for better.

    All these things like Cade, Birch Tar, and the Choyas, they are all pyrogenous extractions. You will need to predilute them and use them in small amounts,...

    Yes, Some, if not most all Indonesian Vetiver is smoky, because of the distillation practices used.

    There are several more sources of smoke, but they are much more esoteric and difficult to obtain. For ease of use and acquisition, the materials already listed will most likely work for you.

    post #6 of 13
    post #7 of 13
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pkilerView Post

    All these things like Cade, Birch Tar, and the Choyas, they are all pyrogenous extractions. You will need to predilute them and use them in small amounts,...

    ...

    There are several more sources of smoke, but they are much more esoteric and difficult to obtain. For ease of use and acquisition, the materials already listed will most likely work for you.

    I agree with this - if you want to do woodsmoke with naturals alone these are the best, most widely available ones to use - though I also found castoreum (you can use natural or synthetic) and certain types of olibanum (frankincense) very helpful. You could also consider Virginian cedarwood, which I think contributes well and is cheaper than Chinese.

    However I have found that to get a really good woodsmoke effect you need synthetics as well. I have Woodsmoke as a rooms spray in my Home Fragrance range and hence spent a lot of time working on getting it right before it went on sale.

    Cedramber, Vertenex (aka PTBCHA) an ambergris replacer (such as ambrofix, ambroxan or ambrox DL) and Iso E Super are essential I think to get a good effect.

    post #8 of 13

    Lol! Chris, I am enjoying your new avatar here.

    post #9 of 13

    Hello all, I am newbie, but have some naturals with smoke efect.

    For smoke odor in top notes maybe can fit Amyris (Amyris balsamifera), or West Indian sandalwood eo. Long lasting, great fixative Buddha wood (Eremophila mitchelli) eo can add incense-like, "smoked santalwood", soft and pleasant smoke across all fragrance notes.
    Smoky are amber CO2, I have try this one:http://www.whitelotusaromatics.com/product/amber-co2-total

    About vetiver - most of all smoky are vetiver Ruh khus, hydrodistilled from roots of wild harvest plants essential oil. Costly.
    Castoreum have strong new leather smell, terribly long-lasting, but castor glands can by smoked before tincturing, and then yes, can obtain smoky notes as well.

    post #10 of 13
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jsparlaView Post

    You might try this approach, works with wood chips too: https://sites.google.com/site/perfumerecipes/tincture-your-own-smoke-with-frankincense

    You can also use the traditional bushcraft method for making birch tar oil. It basically involves the use of two empty metal cans, some birch bark and a campfire. I've used it successfully to make my own crude birch tar oil. It could be used to collect tar oil from many plant materials with high essential oil contents. This video will give you a good idea of what's involved.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBfG2vPG_Y8

    I should mention to anyone who is new to making their own fragrances that crude tars should be used with caution, as they contain potentially toxic substances.


    Edited by Pears - 6/13/13 at 2:37pm
    post #11 of 13

    Lots of great suggestions here, but the king of smoky woods is oud, for which you could pay a dollar a drop. That, castoreum and frankincense would be a nice combo, along with a vaguely balsamic note of some kind to mellow it out or not have all one quality, as Chris suggests. I like that Chris advised you with a complimentary olfactory quality in mind (amber), and like his suggestions there. I will add that a tobacco note is often nice with smokiness, but not necessary -- just an association like the wood is. That means vertofix coeur would also tend to belong, though again it's just one idea, not necessary. Vetiver is good, but then you have to be aware of overall balance of qualities in your scent. You can't have everything be harsh, edgy, and smoky, as far as pleasantness aesthetics.

    But there are lots of possibilities named in this thread, and most all of the suggestions have potential, obviously including rectified cade.

    As far as cedar, I think the texas variety is more smoky than the virginia, but that doesn't mean you'd have to pick that one. You can go with iso-e for your wood body note, as Chris suggests. There are other options (obviously sandal)

    My intuition would make me try tea tree as one top note, although that could be inappropriate, and is just one out of infinite ideas to wonder about.

    If you need another musky note, cashmeran might support that note (here I am going from times I think I smelled what I thought might be cashmeran in laundry products, regarding a certain edginess), as well as ambergris, although I have no personal experience with cashmeran -- mainly intuition here (which means potentially bad idea ;)).

    I don't know why synthetics would be necessary, unless you have to exactly replicate some particular smoke smell. If you just want something beautiful and smoky, there are lots of options with naturals. I compare it to painting. You can paint a beautiful face, or you can instead try to paint a photographically accurate face. For most of painting, the accuracy to something else is not important, except for certain styles and applications, such as if you are a portrait artist.

    Leaving a pleasant smoky impression is not a problem. My suggestion is to ask yourself what your priorities or artistic values are with this project.

    Having said that, I know there are people who will buy based on -- "wow, that smells exactly like my George Foreman grill!" (or something similar).


    Edited by DrSmellThis - 6/13/13 at 5:36pm
    post #12 of 13

    jsparla, great idea on making your own smoke. Love it! Would be interesting with a certain burned substance... :)

    post #13 of 13
    I make do with birch tar. Pure smoke to me. With safraleine you get a great leather base.
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    6/11/13 at 12:45pm

    Nine said:



    Very new to formulating using essential oils and natural ingredients only. Does anyone have any idea what essential oils or natural extracts I can use to create a wood smoke/smokey scent? I'd appreciate any advice, I have a TON of essential oils on hand to work with.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated : )

    6/11/13 at 2:45pm

    JDBIII said:



    You could try birch tar, cade oil or guaiacol.

    6/11/13 at 2:49pm

    pkiler said:



    Cedarwood EO China- Thuja Orientalis, Guaiacwood EO, Choya Nakh, Choya Ral, Choya Loban, Birch Tar Rectified... Try the TGSC Perfumer's search page, and type in Smoky...

    http://www.perfumersearch.com/

    6/12/13 at 10:43am

    RickB said:



    In my admittedly limited experience, cade at more than about 0.5% (and probably less) overwhelms with burning leaves/campfire/wood stove smokiness. Birch tar smells more to me like wood that has been burned and left to sit for awhile (with a hint of the birchy wintergreen floating above it). Guaiacwood smells like wet ashes and very vaguely like bacon to me - but much less overwhelming than the cade/birch tar. The vetiver I have is pretty smoky as well.

    6/12/13 at 4:06pm

    pkiler said:



    Yes, *some* gauiacwood goes towards bacon, look for better.

    All these things like Cade, Birch Tar, and the Choyas, they are all pyrogenous extractions. You will need to predilute them and use them in small amounts,...

    Yes, Some, if not most all Indonesian Vetiver is smoky, because of the distillation practices used.

    There are several more sources of smoke, but they are much more esoteric and difficult to obtain. For ease of use and acquisition, the materials already listed will most likely work for you.

    6/12/13 at 10:28pm

    jsparla said:



    6/13/13 at 1:02am

    Chris Bartlett said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pkilerView Post

    All these things like Cade, Birch Tar, and the Choyas, they are all pyrogenous extractions. You will need to predilute them and use them in small amounts,...

    ...

    There are several more sources of smoke, but they are much more esoteric and difficult to obtain. For ease of use and acquisition, the materials already listed will most likely work for you.

    I agree with this - if you want to do woodsmoke with naturals alone these are the best, most widely available ones to use - though I also found castoreum (you can use natural or synthetic) and certain types of olibanum (frankincense) very helpful. You could also consider Virginian cedarwood, which I think contributes well and is cheaper than Chinese.

    However I have found that to get a really good woodsmoke effect you need synthetics as well. I have Woodsmoke as a rooms spray in my Home Fragrance range and hence spent a lot of time working on getting it right before it went on sale.

    Cedramber, Vertenex (aka PTBCHA) an ambergris replacer (such as ambrofix, ambroxan or ambrox DL) and Iso E Super are essential I think to get a good effect.

    6/13/13 at 5:11am

    gido said:



    Lol! Chris, I am enjoying your new avatar here.

    6/13/13 at 10:19am

    Ramute said:



    Hello all, I am newbie, but have some naturals with smoke efect.

    For smoke odor in top notes maybe can fit Amyris (Amyris balsamifera), or West Indian sandalwood eo. Long lasting, great fixative Buddha wood (Eremophila mitchelli) eo can add incense-like, "smoked santalwood", soft and pleasant smoke across all fragrance notes.
    Smoky are amber CO2, I have try this one:http://www.whitelotusaromatics.com/product/amber-co2-total

    About vetiver - most of all smoky are vetiver Ruh khus, hydrodistilled from roots of wild harvest plants essential oil. Costly.
    Castoreum have strong new leather smell, terribly long-lasting, but castor glands can by smoked before tincturing, and then yes, can obtain smoky notes as well.

    6/13/13 at 1:14pm

    Pears said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jsparlaView Post

    You might try this approach, works with wood chips too: https://sites.google.com/site/perfumerecipes/tincture-your-own-smoke-with-frankincense

    You can also use the traditional bushcraft method for making birch tar oil. It basically involves the use of two empty metal cans, some birch bark and a campfire. I've used it successfully to make my own crude birch tar oil. It could be used to collect tar oil from many plant materials with high essential oil contents. This video will give you a good idea of what's involved.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBfG2vPG_Y8

    I should mention to anyone who is new to making their own fragrances that crude tars should be used with caution, as they contain potentially toxic substances.


    Edited by Pears - 6/13/13 at 2:37pm

    6/13/13 at 5:11pm

    DrSmellThis said:



    Lots of great suggestions here, but the king of smoky woods is oud, for which you could pay a dollar a drop. That, castoreum and frankincense would be a nice combo, along with a vaguely balsamic note of some kind to mellow it out or not have all one quality, as Chris suggests. I like that Chris advised you with a complimentary olfactory quality in mind (amber), and like his suggestions there. I will add that a tobacco note is often nice with smokiness, but not necessary -- just an association like the wood is. That means vertofix coeur would also tend to belong, though again it's just one idea, not necessary. Vetiver is good, but then you have to be aware of overall balance of qualities in your scent. You can't have everything be harsh, edgy, and smoky, as far as pleasantness aesthetics.

    But there are lots of possibilities named in this thread, and most all of the suggestions have potential, obviously including rectified cade.

    As far as cedar, I think the texas variety is more smoky than the virginia, but that doesn't mean you'd have to pick that one. You can go with iso-e for your wood body note, as Chris suggests. There are other options (obviously sandal)

    My intuition would make me try tea tree as one top note, although that could be inappropriate, and is just one out of infinite ideas to wonder about.

    If you need another musky note, cashmeran might support that note (here I am going from times I think I smelled what I thought might be cashmeran in laundry products, regarding a certain edginess), as well as ambergris, although I have no personal experience with cashmeran -- mainly intuition here (which means potentially bad idea ;)).

    I don't know why synthetics would be necessary, unless you have to exactly replicate some particular smoke smell. If you just want something beautiful and smoky, there are lots of options with naturals. I compare it to painting. You can paint a beautiful face, or you can instead try to paint a photographically accurate face. For most of painting, the accuracy to something else is not important, except for certain styles and applications, such as if you are a portrait artist.

    Leaving a pleasant smoky impression is not a problem. My suggestion is to ask yourself what your priorities or artistic values are with this project.

    Having said that, I know there are people who will buy based on -- "wow, that smells exactly like my George Foreman grill!" (or something similar).


    Edited by DrSmellThis - 6/13/13 at 5:36pm

    6/13/13 at 5:46pm

    DrSmellThis said:



    jsparla, great idea on making your own smoke. Love it! Would be interesting with a certain burned substance... :)

    6/17/13 at 4:18pm

    Sandalphon said:



    I make do with birch tar. Pure smoke to me. With safraleine you get a great leather base.





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