mousse de saxe

    mousse de saxe

    post #1 of 54
    Thread Starter 
    Hello,
    I am trying to recreate the mousse de saxe base but I don't have a clue. I believe it consisted of vanillin, aniseed, geranium and iodine (which I am not sure what it is).
    If you know anything about it, let me know.

    PS. Pkiler, I enjoyed your formulas from your archive. A great starting point and source of inspiration.
    post #2 of 54

    Not an expert myself. Elena V at perfumeshrine has a good description:

    http://perfumeshrine.blogspot.com/2011/12/mousse-de-saxe-base-creation-history.html

     

    Apparently quinoline was another key ingredient. I would however imagine that the base also contained several other ingredients, like oakmoss and musks, but who knows which ones. Vintage Nuit de Noel, where the base is supposedly very strong, smells very complex, perhaps too much to make a sense of each separate ingredient.

     

    cacio

    post #3 of 54

    Who would deny you your own research, - - - time and Googling "Mousse de saxe" will be the best way to spend a couple of hours in teaching yourself...  esp as I have not ever seen any formulas to give you, I just have done my own research and come to my own conclusions...

     

    Maybe you will too?

     

    PS: Iodine is,... Iodine.

    post #4 of 54
    Thread Starter 

    Yes, quinoline as well!

    My dear Pkiler not only have I spent some time on the web googling "mousse de saxe", but I have also done different accords with the aforementioned ingredients minus the iodine which I haven't got. All I know about it, is that its use in perfumery is prohibited (according to TGSS).
    I would much appreciate an indication of how it smells and if there is another chemical with similar odour characteristics and behaviour.
    I always do my homework before asking for valuable advice of the members here, I know their time is precious. I just don't feel I have to mention it on every post I publish asking for guidance.
    All in all, I find your answer slighlty off topic and redundant.
     

    post #5 of 54

    Speaking of iodine, I wonder if seaweed absolute would work well? Haven't tried it, but I can imagine it would fit in well in an oakmoss / chypre context. 

     

    Also, if you search 'iodine' odour on TGSC, Safraleine comes up. Interesting...

     

    It will be hard to recreate something you haven't smelled (maybe you have? - I haven't).

    post #6 of 54

    Iodine used to be used for wounds.It does have a very individual and quite unmistakable smell. It is a bit like metal/swimming pool chlorine. If you look for chemicals with a metal bleach smell then you may be near.

     

    Iodine throws these:-

    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/search.php?qOdor=iodine&submit.x=7&submit.y=3

     

    Chlorine throws this

    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/search.php?qOdor=chlorine&submit.x=9&submit.y=1

     

    Metal throws these:-

    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/search.php?qOdor=metal&submit.x=0&submit.y=0

     

    The base is a sort of dark green leather smoky thing. Lovely.

    post #7 of 54

    I have never heard of the element Iodine being used in Perfumery, and I very much doubt that it is.   Mousse de Saxe (from memory, it's been years since I smelled it) did have a sea weedy aspect to it, which could have been caused by a touch of Seaweed abs.

    post #8 of 54
    post #9 of 54

    Hello Ion,  with 57 posts to date, it is still too early for anyone here to know you or your thought methods, and what you do or don't do prior to asking a question.

     

    Sorry that you took offense to recommending that research was a good option.

     

    Research is how I learn.  Research is how I teach perfumery.

    It seems that at this point, you may have collected what information there is to find about the base.  

    My extensive research was not very fruitful except to find people's ideas of it's list of ingredients.

    Another Perfumer I know has made her own version of it, based on her research, but now David and Mumsy may be the only people that I know who have actually smelled it.

     

    Sorry that I was "slighlty off topic and redundant" to you...

    I suppose that not all of my posts can be perfectly informative...

    I am after all, just an imperfect sin-filled creature, and just a man.

    post #10 of 54

    Besides seaweed absolute, Iknow there are other perfume ingredients with a medicinal, iodine note. However, at the moment I am forgetting. If i remember I will post. So maybe it's not about iodinne, but rather the iodine note, which is not uncommon or difficult to get.

     

    Darn it, it is bothering me I can't recall which thing has the iodine note that I was trying to think of! :)
     

    post #11 of 54

    After reading the last blog Post listed for Grain de musc, I called my supplier, Vigon, and they didn't see it listed in Symrise's catalog.  So now I've written to a couple of my Symrise contacts, maybe yet, I can get a sample to smell...?

    post #12 of 54

    This DIY section is hopefully about helping each other to move forwards, whatever the question.

     

    For the record, I have only smelled it within perfumes and not alone. I was chasing the same interest last year and had a few goes myself based on descriptions online. It helps to gain a sample of the particular fragrances described and then compare them alongside their notes and together. A pattern then evolves quite naturally. Any descriptions are better read with as many of the substances to hand to smell as you can, whilst you are reading so that you understand the descriptions more completely. It really helps the understanding of the intent.

    post #13 of 54

    I'm pretty sure the reference to iodine was misspelt and should have said ionone.

    post #14 of 54

    Maybe my friend will come through...?

     

    "Dear Paul,


    I am checking with Germany.  Will get back to you asap.


    Best regards,
    XXXXXXXXX  XXXXX
    Symrise, Inc - USA
    Sales Service Specialist, Aroma Molecules"

    post #15 of 54
    I don't think Iodine was misspelled. Just not used neat. It probably aided another process.
    post #16 of 54
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mumsy View Post

    I don't think Iodine was misspelled. Just not used neat. It probably aided another process.

    And I don't think that Iodine was used at all.   I have never come across its use in a fragrance.   I would have to agree with Mark, Ionone makes much more sense.

    post #17 of 54

    I may well be terribly wrong, but I have something lurking in the darkest recesses of my brain about Iodine being used to do with releasing vanillin from something or other. I shall look it up later when I have more time.

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    6/16/13 at 8:17pm

    ION said:



    Hello,
    I am trying to recreate the mousse de saxe base but I don't have a clue. I believe it consisted of vanillin, aniseed, geranium and iodine (which I am not sure what it is).
    If you know anything about it, let me know.

    PS. Pkiler, I enjoyed your formulas from your archive. A great starting point and source of inspiration.

    6/16/13 at 8:33pm

    cacio said:



    Not an expert myself. Elena V at perfumeshrine has a good description:

    http://perfumeshrine.blogspot.com/2011/12/mousse-de-saxe-base-creation-history.html

     

    Apparently quinoline was another key ingredient. I would however imagine that the base also contained several other ingredients, like oakmoss and musks, but who knows which ones. Vintage Nuit de Noel, where the base is supposedly very strong, smells very complex, perhaps too much to make a sense of each separate ingredient.

     

    cacio

    6/16/13 at 9:07pm

    pkiler said:



    Who would deny you your own research, - - - time and Googling "Mousse de saxe" will be the best way to spend a couple of hours in teaching yourself...  esp as I have not ever seen any formulas to give you, I just have done my own research and come to my own conclusions...

     

    Maybe you will too?

     

    PS: Iodine is,... Iodine.

    6/17/13 at 5:59am

    ION said:



    Yes, quinoline as well!

    My dear Pkiler not only have I spent some time on the web googling "mousse de saxe", but I have also done different accords with the aforementioned ingredients minus the iodine which I haven't got. All I know about it, is that its use in perfumery is prohibited (according to TGSS).
    I would much appreciate an indication of how it smells and if there is another chemical with similar odour characteristics and behaviour.
    I always do my homework before asking for valuable advice of the members here, I know their time is precious. I just don't feel I have to mention it on every post I publish asking for guidance.
    All in all, I find your answer slighlty off topic and redundant.
     

    6/17/13 at 7:05am

    Renegade said:



    Speaking of iodine, I wonder if seaweed absolute would work well? Haven't tried it, but I can imagine it would fit in well in an oakmoss / chypre context. 

     

    Also, if you search 'iodine' odour on TGSC, Safraleine comes up. Interesting...

     

    It will be hard to recreate something you haven't smelled (maybe you have? - I haven't).

    6/17/13 at 7:17am

    mumsy said:



    Iodine used to be used for wounds.It does have a very individual and quite unmistakable smell. It is a bit like metal/swimming pool chlorine. If you look for chemicals with a metal bleach smell then you may be near.

     

    Iodine throws these:-

    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/search.php?qOdor=iodine&submit.x=7&submit.y=3

     

    Chlorine throws this

    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/search.php?qOdor=chlorine&submit.x=9&submit.y=1

     

    Metal throws these:-

    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/search.php?qOdor=metal&submit.x=0&submit.y=0

     

    The base is a sort of dark green leather smoky thing. Lovely.

    6/17/13 at 9:12am

    David Ruskin said:



    I have never heard of the element Iodine being used in Perfumery, and I very much doubt that it is.   Mousse de Saxe (from memory, it's been years since I smelled it) did have a sea weedy aspect to it, which could have been caused by a touch of Seaweed abs.

    6/17/13 at 10:53am

    pkiler said:



    Hello Ion,  with 57 posts to date, it is still too early for anyone here to know you or your thought methods, and what you do or don't do prior to asking a question.

     

    Sorry that you took offense to recommending that research was a good option.

     

    Research is how I learn.  Research is how I teach perfumery.

    It seems that at this point, you may have collected what information there is to find about the base.  

    My extensive research was not very fruitful except to find people's ideas of it's list of ingredients.

    Another Perfumer I know has made her own version of it, based on her research, but now David and Mumsy may be the only people that I know who have actually smelled it.

     

    Sorry that I was "slighlty off topic and redundant" to you...

    I suppose that not all of my posts can be perfectly informative...

    I am after all, just an imperfect sin-filled creature, and just a man.

    6/17/13 at 12:47pm

    DrSmellThis said:



    Besides seaweed absolute, Iknow there are other perfume ingredients with a medicinal, iodine note. However, at the moment I am forgetting. If i remember I will post. So maybe it's not about iodinne, but rather the iodine note, which is not uncommon or difficult to get.

     

    Darn it, it is bothering me I can't recall which thing has the iodine note that I was trying to think of! :)
     

    6/17/13 at 1:05pm

    pkiler said:



    After reading the last blog Post listed for Grain de musc, I called my supplier, Vigon, and they didn't see it listed in Symrise's catalog.  So now I've written to a couple of my Symrise contacts, maybe yet, I can get a sample to smell...?

    6/17/13 at 2:48pm

    mumsy said:



    This DIY section is hopefully about helping each other to move forwards, whatever the question.

     

    For the record, I have only smelled it within perfumes and not alone. I was chasing the same interest last year and had a few goes myself based on descriptions online. It helps to gain a sample of the particular fragrances described and then compare them alongside their notes and together. A pattern then evolves quite naturally. Any descriptions are better read with as many of the substances to hand to smell as you can, whilst you are reading so that you understand the descriptions more completely. It really helps the understanding of the intent.

    6/18/13 at 4:31pm

    Mark said:



    I'm pretty sure the reference to iodine was misspelt and should have said ionone.

    6/18/13 at 9:37pm

    pkiler said:



    Maybe my friend will come through...?

     

    "Dear Paul,


    I am checking with Germany.  Will get back to you asap.


    Best regards,
    XXXXXXXXX  XXXXX
    Symrise, Inc - USA
    Sales Service Specialist, Aroma Molecules"

    6/19/13 at 12:39am

    mumsy said:



    I don't think Iodine was misspelled. Just not used neat. It probably aided another process.

    6/19/13 at 1:19am

    David Ruskin said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mumsy View Post

    I don't think Iodine was misspelled. Just not used neat. It probably aided another process.

    And I don't think that Iodine was used at all.   I have never come across its use in a fragrance.   I would have to agree with Mark, Ionone makes much more sense.

    6/19/13 at 1:52am

    mumsy said:



    I may well be terribly wrong, but I have something lurking in the darkest recesses of my brain about Iodine being used to do with releasing vanillin from something or other. I shall look it up later when I have more time.