on Norlimbanol, luminosity and meditative woodiness

    on Norlimbanol, luminosity and meditative woodiness

    post #1 of 25
    Thread Starter 

    Hi there. New here and first time posting. Hope I am doing this right. I searched the forum, couldnīt find a thread on it, only hints and bits and pieces. 

    Some lovely or helpful comments on what Norlimbanol can do for/with others. But what can the others do for/with Norlimbanol?

     

    I am obsessed about solinotes, base notes (no pun intended), accords or just random single molecules aided by small doses of other molecules, emphasizing on an aspect -a real or imaginary one- of the protagonist. But most of all, I am obsessed about Norlimbanol, my ecstatic nose actually smells dry wood trunks lying half-buried in the desert sand for years, and I also smell "sun", I find Norimbanol essentially "luminous", itīs my type of Hedione (famous quote about Hedione "bringing light into a fragrance"...hope I got that right and promise to work on my English). 

     

     

    My attempts:

    I tried a bit of Ambrettolide, just to get an initial impression: not bad, but no statement there. Norlimbanol is animalic enough on its own. To me it smells magnificently "sunny/luminous", but I remain conscious about the fact: itīs wild, itīs just outdoorsy-"letīs get the hell out of here"-wild: most of my friends hate it. I tried a drop of pure Lyral: the animalic luminosity got a bit watered down, but I hate shampoo and Lyral reminds me of shampoo. In absence of an alternative: I would wear it, no questions asked! As long as itīs wearable and there are no casualties: works for me! I tried it with Santaliff along with a bit of Cedryl Acetate. Santaliff swallowed it! Santaliff was 25%, Norlimbanol was 50%. Later on, I tried this on my skin, my hand 2 drops Norlimbanol 50% with 4 drops Iso-E-Super 25%. Smelled good. Clogged, but good, could be the overdose, not properly diluted and so on.

    I know: I am an olfactic caveman, ignorant, and I must dilute further. But I still just need an initial impression, I donīt work for Givaudan and I sell nothing. Iīve bought 250ml Norlimbanol in two months time. I worship this molecule and its extreme complexity, have no words for it, at least not in English. But what do I do with it?! What do you do with a meditative woodiness? In the longrun, Its neutral radiance will become tiresome on its own. Thatīs the molecule they should have named Nirvanolide in the first place and no musk!

     

    My questions: 

    - Is there a way to keep Norlimbanol woody and still modify? I guess that means: is there another note/molecule/whatever, which would work with and for Norlimbanol?

    - What am I doing wrong, besides everything?!

     

    Thanx a lot and relaxed warm summer days to you all!

    post #2 of 25
    I don't find anything sunny in Norlimbanol. For me it is the smell of erebus. Try it with cedramber and/or okoumal. This will exalt its main odour profile. Take it further by adding cedryl acetate, iso e and cedroxide with (maybe) a hint of methyl ionone and hedione. If my memory serves me well this way you'll get a lovely woody base, kind of powdery and very trendy. Still, with Norlimbanol I feel cedramber is the key.
    post #3 of 25

    Welcome to Basenotes! Norlimbanol works great with most woody products if properly employed. Try it with some sandalwood, cedar or even some oakmoss. I dilute my stock to 10% and 1%. 10% can still overwhelm a composition if not careful. I am sure you will get other responses. Continue to play and have fun with it, discovery can be the greatest joy.

     

    J

    post #4 of 25

    Ion, I was intrigued by your use of the word 'erebus'...  Was it this that you referred, or something else?  "The dark region of the underworld through which the dead must pass before they reach Hades."

     

    Flagellum, if you browse this page:

    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/rw1020712.html
     - you might find some ideas to work out...

    post #5 of 25

    Try it with Iso E Super, with Javanol , and with Ambrocenide.   Try it with Cosmone.

    post #6 of 25
    Thread Starter 

    Hi, people, and thanks for all the great tips and hints. I donīt have all my "resources" here with me, I am on vacation. But tomorrow I expect a little box from PA, thank God I like Cedramber and ordered some of that too, when I placed the order. 

     

    @Ion & Pkiler: thank you for all the great advice, especially cedramber and cedryl acetate. I could bathe in those two. Iīll try it out.

    I have all sorts of ionones, but I hate them, theyīve ruined everything Iīve used them with, even at 1%.

    I wish I could find Cedrol and other cedar derivatives/molecules.

    And thank you for the poetic reference to erebus, very presocratic! But there is also fulness in the void, erebus was never (entirely) about darkness, and itīs much more than a time of day, the poetics of dead memories or another elemental force (german Urgewalt would be a bit more appropriate, but still  inadequate).  

     

    @wooznib: thanks for the welcome. I have Atlas Cedar at 10%. Iīll try and see. But I think that for that I would have to dilute the Norlimbanol down to 1%, atlas cedar alone seems so dominant to me and still plays me for a fool, as it gets lost in the mix.

    I guess then Norlimbanol would be a reinforcement for the atlas, but does it also work the other way around? Iīm afraid not, but Iīll experiment, I love cedars anyway. 

     

    @David Ruskin: I will.

    Javanol I think I can find at Hermitage. But Javanol is supposed to be very dominant, am I right? I guess I would need a tiny amount of that or the santalol-vibe would "sex up" the austere woodiness of Norlimbanol, right?

    Iso-E-Super  would work with anything, and it actually did well.

    Ambrocenide: Symrise wonīt sell me anything, they only deal with business partners and so on, as far as I know. Still thanks for the great tips. Would musk ketone work instead of Cosmone? 

     

     

    thx again and especially thank you all for your time!

    post #7 of 25

    Is Norlimbanol a chemical that "comes alive" with dilution? I haven't tried diluting mine yet (waiting on bottle order to arrive), but it doesn't smell too overwhelming in its semi-solid state. Looking forward to trying it out as mentioned above.

    post #8 of 25
    Thread Starter 

    I think it smells so dangerously underwhelming because itīs so "dense", extremely dense, like sealed and locked and all "clogged up" inside itīs bottle, I think. Is yours semi-solid?! Mine is from Hermitage and itīs a thick sirupy thing, but still technically a liquid. Makes me wonder. 

    Perhaps at 10% I will be able to appreciate it better, I just need more empty bottles for further dilution and have here none, have to wait until tomorrow. 

    post #9 of 25

    Cedrol Crystals are not that hard to find:

     

    http://shop.newdirections.com.au/100-g-Cedrol-Crystals

    post #10 of 25

    Musk Ketone would be better than Cosmone ( a musk I don't particularly like).   The only reason I suggested Cosmone rather than the Nitromusk is that Musk Ketone is rarely used.   It usually contains some Musk Xylene, and Musk Xylene has been banned.

     

    Javanol is very strong and must be handled with care.   I suggested it because it has an interesting effect whenever it is used.

    post #11 of 25
    Thread Starter 

    Thank you, David. 

    I still have some 100ml Musk Ketone 10% somewhere. I truly love it and donīt care much about its xylene content. What I find alarming about this musk: it reminds me of soap. I would never say itīs a generic soap smell, but itīs still so clean to me that it frightens me: to me itīs less powdery and more "white"-"clean". But that could be my nose or the 10% dilution on blotter, I donīt know. Still, at 1% on my skin, I smelled "clean/washed". Would that not ruin any woody blend? I am not so exprerienced with Musk Ketone or any musk. The only musks I truly like is Exaltolide and Brassylate, something generic about them I canīt put my finger on, no fruits, no sweetness, at least not to me; a mix of aura and smell, like ambroxan, they donīt point in a certain direction, they are not only "smell" but also aura, a bit like Ambroxan as I said or like Iso-E-Super (my God, English is so hard). But I guess itīs just my nose. But I donīt know if those would work with Norlimbanol. Ambrettolide certainly didnīt work out for me.  

    post #12 of 25

    The only way to find out is to try; but you know that.   I think it possible to have a "clean, washed" aspect to woods; why not?

    post #13 of 25

    Good project: I've been a bit of a fan of norlimbanol too, ever since I was introduced to it at a Firmenich presentation a few years ago.  I do think this is one that needs dilution to emerge properly

     

    Ambroxan/ambrofix/ambrox DL works well with it I think, if you want to emphasise the animalic quality try a bit of civet, castoreum or even hyraceum - traces in all cases - they are powerful.

     

    To open up the dry woodiness without going towards the creamy sandalwood cedramber and vertofix (MCE and MCK) are good: these two work well together in many compositions and I think they will do so here.

     

    If you find Iso E Super a bit too dense, try Timbersilk, which is more exalting.  Or Kephalis, which is dryer and woodier.

     

    Let us know how you get on when you get back to base.

    post #14 of 25
    Thread Starter 

    Hi, Chris, and thank you for your reply. 

     

    I guess thatīs what I initially intend to do: open up the dry woodiness of Norlimbanol. Thank God I donīt have a more specific wish at the moment, I mean I donīt  want to achieve the more specific or maybe more usual concepts of "burning woods" or "noble woods" or "pencil shavings", all lovely but not what I am currently looking for. I guess it will be a project, or more of an experiment with what I think is a very bright and versatile molecule. I wonder if Piconia would work or Ionīs suggestion, Okoumal. But I have none and must go with what I have, I can sometimes overdo it with all these aromachemicals and shipment and also customs, if buying from PA, and so on. Sometimes I hate Europe, but then again thereīs Hermitage and Hekserij and so I should be thankful for the EU, which I guess I am. 

    post #15 of 25

    This is a great discussion for me.

     

    I LOVE LOVE LOVE my woods, but am often fighting with them a bit. e.g., the cold sharp trail of Cedramber, or the laser-incense drydown of Okaumol.

     

    To that end, I've been tending away from those, and towards milder options (cedryl acetate is my new mistress).

     

    But it's nice to have some suggestions on how to wrangle these wonderful, powerful chemicals!

    post #16 of 25
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by flagellum View Post
    I wonder if Piconia would work or Ionīs suggestion, Okoumal.

    Funny you mention Piconia! This is an accord taken from my "thoughts and formulas" notepad right under the norlimbanol tag. Give it a try, when balanced it will give you a very nice masculine and robust base to work with and/or alter in preference (add some castoreum for example). No quantities however.

    Cedramber, Norlimbanol, Patchouli, Hydroxycitronellal, okoumal, cedryl acetate, cedroxide, fixateur 505, Piconia, Coumarin.

     

    In addition, Norlimbanol will work in an interesting way with Kephalis as someone before mentioned. It will give it a black pepper nuance. To this duo you may add Coumarin (works great with Kephalis) and Iso e super for a very simple but interesting accord.

     

    Generally, I find Norlimbanol to work best as a booster for different ideas. Sometimes, other elements will literally "shallow" it but no worries. It will soon come back in all its dark glory, persistent and determined to be the last to die!

     

    @Pkiler more like this, but we are pretty close as it has had an ambiguous use: "a primordial deity, representing the personification of darkness; born from Chaos."

    7/9/13 at 7:45am

    flagellum said:



    Hi there. New here and first time posting. Hope I am doing this right. I searched the forum, couldnīt find a thread on it, only hints and bits and pieces. 

    Some lovely or helpful comments on what Norlimbanol can do for/with others. But what can the others do for/with Norlimbanol?

     

    I am obsessed about solinotes, base notes (no pun intended), accords or just random single molecules aided by small doses of other molecules, emphasizing on an aspect -a real or imaginary one- of the protagonist. But most of all, I am obsessed about Norlimbanol, my ecstatic nose actually smells dry wood trunks lying half-buried in the desert sand for years, and I also smell "sun", I find Norimbanol essentially "luminous", itīs my type of Hedione (famous quote about Hedione "bringing light into a fragrance"...hope I got that right and promise to work on my English). 

     

     

    My attempts:

    I tried a bit of Ambrettolide, just to get an initial impression: not bad, but no statement there. Norlimbanol is animalic enough on its own. To me it smells magnificently "sunny/luminous", but I remain conscious about the fact: itīs wild, itīs just outdoorsy-"letīs get the hell out of here"-wild: most of my friends hate it. I tried a drop of pure Lyral: the animalic luminosity got a bit watered down, but I hate shampoo and Lyral reminds me of shampoo. In absence of an alternative: I would wear it, no questions asked! As long as itīs wearable and there are no casualties: works for me! I tried it with Santaliff along with a bit of Cedryl Acetate. Santaliff swallowed it! Santaliff was 25%, Norlimbanol was 50%. Later on, I tried this on my skin, my hand 2 drops Norlimbanol 50% with 4 drops Iso-E-Super 25%. Smelled good. Clogged, but good, could be the overdose, not properly diluted and so on.

    I know: I am an olfactic caveman, ignorant, and I must dilute further. But I still just need an initial impression, I donīt work for Givaudan and I sell nothing. Iīve bought 250ml Norlimbanol in two months time. I worship this molecule and its extreme complexity, have no words for it, at least not in English. But what do I do with it?! What do you do with a meditative woodiness? In the longrun, Its neutral radiance will become tiresome on its own. Thatīs the molecule they should have named Nirvanolide in the first place and no musk!

     

    My questions: 

    - Is there a way to keep Norlimbanol woody and still modify? I guess that means: is there another note/molecule/whatever, which would work with and for Norlimbanol?

    - What am I doing wrong, besides everything?!

     

    Thanx a lot and relaxed warm summer days to you all!

    7/9/13 at 8:43am

    ION said:



    I don't find anything sunny in Norlimbanol. For me it is the smell of erebus. Try it with cedramber and/or okoumal. This will exalt its main odour profile. Take it further by adding cedryl acetate, iso e and cedroxide with (maybe) a hint of methyl ionone and hedione. If my memory serves me well this way you'll get a lovely woody base, kind of powdery and very trendy. Still, with Norlimbanol I feel cedramber is the key.

    7/9/13 at 8:45am

    wooznib said:



    Welcome to Basenotes! Norlimbanol works great with most woody products if properly employed. Try it with some sandalwood, cedar or even some oakmoss. I dilute my stock to 10% and 1%. 10% can still overwhelm a composition if not careful. I am sure you will get other responses. Continue to play and have fun with it, discovery can be the greatest joy.

     

    J

    7/9/13 at 10:19am

    pkiler said:



    Ion, I was intrigued by your use of the word 'erebus'...  Was it this that you referred, or something else?  "The dark region of the underworld through which the dead must pass before they reach Hades."

     

    Flagellum, if you browse this page:

    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/rw1020712.html
     - you might find some ideas to work out...

    7/9/13 at 11:11am

    David Ruskin said:



    Try it with Iso E Super, with Javanol , and with Ambrocenide.   Try it with Cosmone.

    7/9/13 at 12:26pm

    flagellum said:



    Hi, people, and thanks for all the great tips and hints. I donīt have all my "resources" here with me, I am on vacation. But tomorrow I expect a little box from PA, thank God I like Cedramber and ordered some of that too, when I placed the order. 

     

    @Ion & Pkiler: thank you for all the great advice, especially cedramber and cedryl acetate. I could bathe in those two. Iīll try it out.

    I have all sorts of ionones, but I hate them, theyīve ruined everything Iīve used them with, even at 1%.

    I wish I could find Cedrol and other cedar derivatives/molecules.

    And thank you for the poetic reference to erebus, very presocratic! But there is also fulness in the void, erebus was never (entirely) about darkness, and itīs much more than a time of day, the poetics of dead memories or another elemental force (german Urgewalt would be a bit more appropriate, but still  inadequate).  

     

    @wooznib: thanks for the welcome. I have Atlas Cedar at 10%. Iīll try and see. But I think that for that I would have to dilute the Norlimbanol down to 1%, atlas cedar alone seems so dominant to me and still plays me for a fool, as it gets lost in the mix.

    I guess then Norlimbanol would be a reinforcement for the atlas, but does it also work the other way around? Iīm afraid not, but Iīll experiment, I love cedars anyway. 

     

    @David Ruskin: I will.

    Javanol I think I can find at Hermitage. But Javanol is supposed to be very dominant, am I right? I guess I would need a tiny amount of that or the santalol-vibe would "sex up" the austere woodiness of Norlimbanol, right?

    Iso-E-Super  would work with anything, and it actually did well.

    Ambrocenide: Symrise wonīt sell me anything, they only deal with business partners and so on, as far as I know. Still thanks for the great tips. Would musk ketone work instead of Cosmone? 

     

     

    thx again and especially thank you all for your time!

    7/9/13 at 12:32pm

    deadidol said:



    Is Norlimbanol a chemical that "comes alive" with dilution? I haven't tried diluting mine yet (waiting on bottle order to arrive), but it doesn't smell too overwhelming in its semi-solid state. Looking forward to trying it out as mentioned above.

    7/9/13 at 12:50pm

    flagellum said:



    I think it smells so dangerously underwhelming because itīs so "dense", extremely dense, like sealed and locked and all "clogged up" inside itīs bottle, I think. Is yours semi-solid?! Mine is from Hermitage and itīs a thick sirupy thing, but still technically a liquid. Makes me wonder. 

    Perhaps at 10% I will be able to appreciate it better, I just need more empty bottles for further dilution and have here none, have to wait until tomorrow. 

    7/9/13 at 2:41pm

    pkiler said:



    Cedrol Crystals are not that hard to find:

     

    http://shop.newdirections.com.au/100-g-Cedrol-Crystals

    7/10/13 at 1:39am

    David Ruskin said:



    Musk Ketone would be better than Cosmone ( a musk I don't particularly like).   The only reason I suggested Cosmone rather than the Nitromusk is that Musk Ketone is rarely used.   It usually contains some Musk Xylene, and Musk Xylene has been banned.

     

    Javanol is very strong and must be handled with care.   I suggested it because it has an interesting effect whenever it is used.

    7/10/13 at 2:03am

    flagellum said:



    Thank you, David. 

    I still have some 100ml Musk Ketone 10% somewhere. I truly love it and donīt care much about its xylene content. What I find alarming about this musk: it reminds me of soap. I would never say itīs a generic soap smell, but itīs still so clean to me that it frightens me: to me itīs less powdery and more "white"-"clean". But that could be my nose or the 10% dilution on blotter, I donīt know. Still, at 1% on my skin, I smelled "clean/washed". Would that not ruin any woody blend? I am not so exprerienced with Musk Ketone or any musk. The only musks I truly like is Exaltolide and Brassylate, something generic about them I canīt put my finger on, no fruits, no sweetness, at least not to me; a mix of aura and smell, like ambroxan, they donīt point in a certain direction, they are not only "smell" but also aura, a bit like Ambroxan as I said or like Iso-E-Super (my God, English is so hard). But I guess itīs just my nose. But I donīt know if those would work with Norlimbanol. Ambrettolide certainly didnīt work out for me.  

    7/10/13 at 3:58am

    David Ruskin said:



    The only way to find out is to try; but you know that.   I think it possible to have a "clean, washed" aspect to woods; why not?

    7/10/13 at 11:13am

    Chris Bartlett said:



    Good project: I've been a bit of a fan of norlimbanol too, ever since I was introduced to it at a Firmenich presentation a few years ago.  I do think this is one that needs dilution to emerge properly

     

    Ambroxan/ambrofix/ambrox DL works well with it I think, if you want to emphasise the animalic quality try a bit of civet, castoreum or even hyraceum - traces in all cases - they are powerful.

     

    To open up the dry woodiness without going towards the creamy sandalwood cedramber and vertofix (MCE and MCK) are good: these two work well together in many compositions and I think they will do so here.

     

    If you find Iso E Super a bit too dense, try Timbersilk, which is more exalting.  Or Kephalis, which is dryer and woodier.

     

    Let us know how you get on when you get back to base.

    7/10/13 at 2:06pm

    flagellum said:



    Hi, Chris, and thank you for your reply. 

     

    I guess thatīs what I initially intend to do: open up the dry woodiness of Norlimbanol. Thank God I donīt have a more specific wish at the moment, I mean I donīt  want to achieve the more specific or maybe more usual concepts of "burning woods" or "noble woods" or "pencil shavings", all lovely but not what I am currently looking for. I guess it will be a project, or more of an experiment with what I think is a very bright and versatile molecule. I wonder if Piconia would work or Ionīs suggestion, Okoumal. But I have none and must go with what I have, I can sometimes overdo it with all these aromachemicals and shipment and also customs, if buying from PA, and so on. Sometimes I hate Europe, but then again thereīs Hermitage and Hekserij and so I should be thankful for the EU, which I guess I am. 

    7/10/13 at 4:00pm

    JungleNYC said:



    This is a great discussion for me.

     

    I LOVE LOVE LOVE my woods, but am often fighting with them a bit. e.g., the cold sharp trail of Cedramber, or the laser-incense drydown of Okaumol.

     

    To that end, I've been tending away from those, and towards milder options (cedryl acetate is my new mistress).

     

    But it's nice to have some suggestions on how to wrangle these wonderful, powerful chemicals!

    7/11/13 at 5:42am

    ION said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by flagellum View Post
    I wonder if Piconia would work or Ionīs suggestion, Okoumal.

    Funny you mention Piconia! This is an accord taken from my "thoughts and formulas" notepad right under the norlimbanol tag. Give it a try, when balanced it will give you a very nice masculine and robust base to work with and/or alter in preference (add some castoreum for example). No quantities however.

    Cedramber, Norlimbanol, Patchouli, Hydroxycitronellal, okoumal, cedryl acetate, cedroxide, fixateur 505, Piconia, Coumarin.

     

    In addition, Norlimbanol will work in an interesting way with Kephalis as someone before mentioned. It will give it a black pepper nuance. To this duo you may add Coumarin (works great with Kephalis) and Iso e super for a very simple but interesting accord.

     

    Generally, I find Norlimbanol to work best as a booster for different ideas. Sometimes, other elements will literally "shallow" it but no worries. It will soon come back in all its dark glory, persistent and determined to be the last to die!

     

    @Pkiler more like this, but we are pretty close as it has had an ambiguous use: "a primordial deity, representing the personification of darkness; born from Chaos."





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