The "new" oakmoss IFRA-compliant: it's a turning point?

    Notice about Huddler changeover here376589


    7/10/13 at 1:50pm

    Andre Moreau said:



    Some time ago Thierry Wasser declared to have "found" a new oakmoss IFRA-compliant, and used it in the new batches of Guerlain's "Mitsouko".

    Today I tried a Mitsouko batch near-end year 2012, and I found it REALLY good.

    Really seems the old vintage Mitsouko.

    Wonder if we are in front of a turning point.....

    7/10/13 at 3:06pm

    cacio said:



    Good news - so now I'll have to try it as well. Which concentration was your ifra compliant mitsouko?

    cacio

    7/10/13 at 3:12pm

    sjg3839 said:



    Good info. Thanks.

    7/10/13 at 3:31pm

    NineInchNell said:



    Interesting. I wonder if the "found" item is synthetic, since it contains no allergens?

    7/10/13 at 3:42pm

    pluran said:



    Many people are using the new oakmoss. Bertrand Duchaufour’s Chypre Palatin was one of the first and best examples. I think he was the first to use it. From what I hear the new “oakmoss low atranol" smells good but lacks the complexity of full oakmoss. Oakmoss does a lot more than act as a fixative. It deepens and complicates other notes from the top notes through the drydown,


    And oakmoss is only one of hundreds of important ingredients that are restricted to certain amounts. That's why everything made today is so simple, full of cheap musks, various woody-amber "pre-composed bases", Iso E Super, and millions of sugary molecules that camouflage and take the place of real complexity

    I'm not a perfumer but it's pretty basic. In Mitsouko there are many missing pieces, including the right amount of bergamot (most citruses are regulated to small amounts) and the things that make the bergamot smell its best, most of the florals and spices, several others. Unless the regulations are totally lifted there will never be another Mitsouko as it was prior to 2005. It’s still good, though.

    There are also more regulations coming.


    Edited by pluran - 7/10/13 at 4:35pm

    7/10/13 at 3:47pm

    Surfacing said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pluranView Post

    ....

    There are also more regulations coming.

    That's really unfortunate angry.gif

    7/10/13 at 4:10pm

    cacio said:



    If Chypre Palatin is an example of new oakmoss, then I'm certainly not impressed, because it didn't smell very chypre' to me.

    cacio

    7/10/13 at 4:12pm

    gido said:



    New restrictions have been published less than a month ago. More will obviously follow in the future. Right now there are:

    • 102 IFRA Standards restricting the use of ingredients
    • 80 IFRA Standards prohibiting the use of ingredients
    • 20 IFRA Standards setting a purity requirement

    And things are even worse than that seems! Certain chemicals that are omnipresent in natural oils are severely restricted. A perfumer can use a limited amount of these oils as a result, even less if several are to be combined. These cases, and they come in vast numbers, are not presented in above figures.

    The aroma-molecule development sector is going to need a miracle.

    Nevertheless, great to hear that Mitsouko is better now than before.

    7/10/13 at 4:19pm

    mccann690 said:



    Thanks for info need to check out Mitsouko again

    7/10/13 at 4:23pm

    hednic said:



    Curious to see how this plays out in future releases of other established scents.

    7/10/13 at 6:32pm

    HORNS said:



    What's interesting is that in the bottle of Quorum I bought several months ago, from a store, has "Evernia prunastri extract" as an ingredient. Do perfume producers make fragrances specifically for the American market?

    7/10/13 at 6:46pm

    treeman5823 said:



    I think the new Mitsouko is great, but its drydown is certainly inferior to the vintage parfum. I don't know if the "new oakmoss" is any good or if it has even been implemented.

    7/10/13 at 9:17pm

    Andre Moreau said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cacioView Post

    Good news - so now I'll have to try it as well. Which concentration was your ifra compliant mitsouko?

    cacio

    I tried both EDT and EDP.

    7/11/13 at 12:08am

    saminlondon said:



    I emailed Isabelle Rousseau at Guerlain a couple of months ago to confirm whether this new oakmoss was definitely being used, as anecdotal evidence would seem to suggest. I didn't get a reply, alas, but several Guerlain authorities in these parts say that's indeed the case.

    I agree about recent batches of Mitsouko: they're excellent, and do indeed smell as if they contain oakmoss. To my nose they are recognizable as Mitsouko while at the same time smelling slightly different from old vintages: they are brighter, warmer, maybe a little spicier and missing that salty damp note that made the old stuff so intriguing. That said, the new stuff is wonderful and in fact easier to wear, I would say.

    7/11/13 at 12:13am

    saminlondon said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cacioView Post

    If Chypre Palatin is an example of new oakmoss, then I'm certainly not impressed, because it didn't smell very chypre' to me.

    cacio

    Have to agree, alas. I was excited to smell this one, but ultimately found it too sweet and lacking an obvious chypre vibe. I suppose you could call it a new-style chypre with oriental facets if you had to.

    Oh, I tried Chanel Pour Monsieur on a card yesterday and found the oakmoss quite prominent. I wonder if Chanel are using the new oakmoss too?

    7/11/13 at 2:09am

    Andre Moreau said:



    Having many years of experience as a chemist, I wonder if they used an old trick: use real thing (i.e.oakmoss) eliminating the forbidden substance (i.e Atranol) by use of some -indeed complex- laboratory techniques. Briefly said: it' s a sort of "filtration", although complex.

    In a few words they didn't "found" or "discover" anything, simply removed the undesired molecule from the original product.

    It's only a guess, but it's the first thing I thought, when I listened Thierry Wasser saying: " ...a new oakmoss without atranol would be IFRA-compliant...."

    Bingo: they used the "filtration techniques"....

    BY THE WAY: there is no copyright in such operations:, so every one can perform it.

    7/11/13 at 3:02am

    mumsy said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gidoView Post

    New restrictions have been published less than a month ago. More will obviously follow in the future. Right now there are:

    • 102 IFRA Standards restricting the use of ingredients
    • 80 IFRA Standards prohibiting the use of ingredients
    • 20 IFRA Standards setting a purity requirement

    And things are even worse than that seems! Certain chemicals that are omnipresent in natural oils are severely restricted. A perfumer can use a limited amount of these oils as a result, even less if several are to be combined. These cases, and they come in vast numbers, are not presented in above figures.

    The aroma-molecule development sector is going to need a miracle.

    Nevertheless, great to hear that Mitsouko is better now than before.

    The natural perfumers are going to need a miracle too. It gets harder and harder to remain compliant using the very items that nature herself produces. Crazy world when one day we will all be totally obliged to wear only man made chemicals. The lucky thing is that the chemists are getting so clever with headspace analysis, that at least the chemicals will smell more natural. Lol