Always the same answer. Light and heat destroy fragrances...

    Always the same answer. Light and heat destroy fragrances...

    post #1 of 19
    Thread Starter 
    And I don't question the answer!

    But is it light in general? Have there been any studies of what wavelengths of light actually do the damage? Is it full spectrom or, as I intuitively suspect ultrviolet light? And at what temperature is a fragrance degraded? And for how long? I'm very curious if there have been any scientific studies done on this.
    post #2 of 19
    I'd be interested in knowing the specifics also. Maybe some of our perfumers here on Basenotes know.
    Edited by hednic - 8/14/13 at 8:37am
    post #3 of 19

    This is if you are worried if your fragrances might get damaged in the light / heat within your home...

    Experts may disagree, but all my scents have been stored only in closets (closed), with a few mm gap between the door hinges where light always goes through; however, I keep almost all my fragrances in their boxes, so the damage from that minimal light is negligent imo. When I lived in India and used mostly designer's then; even with extreme heat (35-40 deg C as minimum temp), the fragrances in the closet were probably around 22-25 deg C - i did not have any damage then. Now, living in Canada, there's no issue from heat & the same issue from light as above, so again, no damages.

     

    This particular topic to me is way over-hyped here on BN - unless a fragrance undergoes too many temperature fluctuations - + or - 5 deg C change in a few hours over a day, or unless someone leaves a bottle out in the sun where its heat can damage, I see no issues in storing them in a regular closed closet. Same with light as well - unless exposed to direct sunlight for a prolonged amount of time, the damage imo will be next to none. So all this refrigerator talk to me is pointless & a waste of $, i'd rather spend it on another scent happy.gif

    post #4 of 19

    here's a previous post i found...

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Chemistwithanose View Post

    Some fragrances are easier to ruin than others. The more citrusy fragrances can go bad more easily. In fact, almost any fragrance that has a moiety in it that can absorb a given wavelength of light has the potential to go bad, mostly this means ultraviolet. Our sun produces all sorts of electromagnetic radiation, but our atmosphere (and magnetic field) act as bulwark to the great majority of it.

    It's ultraviolet light that damages fragrances, particularly those with aromachemicals containing double bonds. If anyone's super interested, I can go into more detail on the mechanisms at play.

    Seeing as UV light is absorbed by most types of glass (save quartz), I'd say your fragrance is probably safe!

    Take home message: keep fragrances in the cool and the dark.
    post #5 of 19

    I would imagine that the wavelengths that caused the most damage would vary depending on the ingredient, just like how fragile the compounds are varies with a whole selection of other parameters.

     

    The alcohol content clearly is at risk as much or more than the ingredients which are in solution in the alcohol, but that's more of an evaporation risk than a degradation one.  As for each of the compounds, as chemicals they are all stable to a certain degree but again that varies from compound to compound.

     

    For example, water is an extremely stable compound and if you were to bring together hydrogen gas and oxygen gas at room temperature and pressure, the merest hint of a spark and you would hear a large bang and suddenly have none of either and a large puddle of very hot water instead.  The reaction of hydrogen and oxygen (both in gaseous form, both already in molecules) to make water is serious exothermic and the bonds within the water are so stable that getting it back to being just oxygen and hydrogen takes a huge amount of energy no matter how you try to achieve it.  Some compounds are enormously stable and take huge energy input along with specific conditions to degrade them, whereas some will react with the gases in the air given half the chance. 

     

    I would guess (purely a guess at this point) that the most damaging wavelengths are going to be in the ultraviolet and infrared ranges, but that still covers quite a large range.  Even if one wanted to find out the answer to this practically we could be here for the odd 20 years waiting for the answer with the thousands of different compounds which could be involved in a perfume.

    post #6 of 19

    no definitive answer. the least amount of light possible is what I do

    post #7 of 19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by badarun View Post

    here's a previous post i found...


    Quote:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chemistwithanose View Post

    Some fragrances are easier to ruin than others. The more citrusy fragrances can go bad more easily. In fact, almost any fragrance that has a moiety in it that can absorb a given wavelength of light has the potential to go bad, mostly this means ultraviolet. Our sun produces all sorts of electromagnetic radiation, but our atmosphere (and magnetic field) act as bulwark to the great majority of it.


    It's ultraviolet light that damages fragrances, particularly those with aromachemicals containing double bonds. If anyone's super interested, I can go into more detail on the mechanisms at play.


    Seeing as UV light is absorbed by most types of glass (save quartz), I'd say your fragrance is probably safe!


    Take home message: keep fragrances in the cool and the dark.
    Thanks for this.
    post #8 of 19
    I've seen bottles of perfume change color and go bad at perfume shops.

    Being exposed to light 24 hours a day. That's why.
    No heat. Just lights from the very high ceiling.
    post #9 of 19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post

    I've seen bottles of perfume change color and go bad at perfume shops.

    Being exposed to light 24 hours a day. That's why.
    No heat. Just lights from the very high ceiling.

     

    So even a light from my lighting fixtures will damage my perfumes as much as sunlight?
    post #10 of 19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by williampaul1969 View Post

    So even a light from my lighting fixtures will damage my perfumes as much as sunlight?

    By caring for a seawater tank of coral, I know that there are different types of lights.

    I'm unsure what lights were in those department stores but they looked like spotlights.

    So yes, those lights will damage perfume.

    I've seen orange Tubereuse Criminelle, green Chergui, translucent Seville a'Laube and a rainbow of other stuff.
    post #11 of 19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post



    I'm unsure what lights were in those department stores but they looked like spotlights.

    .
    Similar stores like the one you speak of use those hi-intensity halogen bulbs to spotlight merchandise. Definitely not good for fragrance.
    post #12 of 19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post

    I've seen orange Tubereuse Criminelle, green Chergui, translucent Seville a'Laube and a rainbow of other stuff.

     

    Some bottles of Chergui did go through a green phase, so probably nothing to do with the lights. Just sayin'.

     
     
    post #13 of 19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by saminlondon View Post

    Some bottles of Chergui did go through a green phase, so probably nothing to do with the lights. Just sayin'.


     


     

    Perfumes don't go through color changing phases. They stay the same color.
    post #14 of 19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post


    Perfumes don't go through color changing phases. They stay the same color.

     

    Not in the case of Chergui ...

     

    http://www.basenotes.net/t/207068/chergui-juice-now-green-photos-attached

    post #15 of 19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by saminlondon View Post

    Not in the case of Chergui ...

    http://www.basenotes.net/t/207068/chergui-juice-now-green-photos-attached


    That thread is incorrect.

    I've seen bottles of Chergui from 2010 till today , in many countries including the Paris boutique and they've all been brown. The green ones were light-damaged bottles.

    I actually saw a bottle of Chergui morph into green over a period of a year.

    The same has happened to a bottle of Seville a'Laube. It went from orange to pale urine color.
    post #16 of 19
    That's correct, hedonist! I too had a bell jar that gradually changed from brown to green-brown over the course of two years without being stored in the light. BUT I also own a bright-green Export bottle of Chergui that I think came as green (trebor seems to confirm this in his thread). It is also a tad fresher and heavier on coumarin.
    post #17 of 19

    8/14/13 at 7:56am

    Akahina said:



    And I don't question the answer!

    But is it light in general? Have there been any studies of what wavelengths of light actually do the damage? Is it full spectrom or, as I intuitively suspect ultrviolet light? And at what temperature is a fragrance degraded? And for how long? I'm very curious if there have been any scientific studies done on this.

    8/14/13 at 8:07am

    hednic said:



    I'd be interested in knowing the specifics also. Maybe some of our perfumers here on Basenotes know.
    Edited by hednic - 8/14/13 at 8:37am

    8/14/13 at 8:18am

    badarun said:



    This is if you are worried if your fragrances might get damaged in the light / heat within your home...

    Experts may disagree, but all my scents have been stored only in closets (closed), with a few mm gap between the door hinges where light always goes through; however, I keep almost all my fragrances in their boxes, so the damage from that minimal light is negligent imo. When I lived in India and used mostly designer's then; even with extreme heat (35-40 deg C as minimum temp), the fragrances in the closet were probably around 22-25 deg C - i did not have any damage then. Now, living in Canada, there's no issue from heat & the same issue from light as above, so again, no damages.

     

    This particular topic to me is way over-hyped here on BN - unless a fragrance undergoes too many temperature fluctuations - + or - 5 deg C change in a few hours over a day, or unless someone leaves a bottle out in the sun where its heat can damage, I see no issues in storing them in a regular closed closet. Same with light as well - unless exposed to direct sunlight for a prolonged amount of time, the damage imo will be next to none. So all this refrigerator talk to me is pointless & a waste of $, i'd rather spend it on another scent happy.gif

    8/14/13 at 8:20am

    badarun said:



    here's a previous post i found...

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Chemistwithanose View Post

    Some fragrances are easier to ruin than others. The more citrusy fragrances can go bad more easily. In fact, almost any fragrance that has a moiety in it that can absorb a given wavelength of light has the potential to go bad, mostly this means ultraviolet. Our sun produces all sorts of electromagnetic radiation, but our atmosphere (and magnetic field) act as bulwark to the great majority of it.

    It's ultraviolet light that damages fragrances, particularly those with aromachemicals containing double bonds. If anyone's super interested, I can go into more detail on the mechanisms at play.

    Seeing as UV light is absorbed by most types of glass (save quartz), I'd say your fragrance is probably safe!

    Take home message: keep fragrances in the cool and the dark.

    8/14/13 at 8:39am

    sfmedusa said:



    I would imagine that the wavelengths that caused the most damage would vary depending on the ingredient, just like how fragile the compounds are varies with a whole selection of other parameters.

     

    The alcohol content clearly is at risk as much or more than the ingredients which are in solution in the alcohol, but that's more of an evaporation risk than a degradation one.  As for each of the compounds, as chemicals they are all stable to a certain degree but again that varies from compound to compound.

     

    For example, water is an extremely stable compound and if you were to bring together hydrogen gas and oxygen gas at room temperature and pressure, the merest hint of a spark and you would hear a large bang and suddenly have none of either and a large puddle of very hot water instead.  The reaction of hydrogen and oxygen (both in gaseous form, both already in molecules) to make water is serious exothermic and the bonds within the water are so stable that getting it back to being just oxygen and hydrogen takes a huge amount of energy no matter how you try to achieve it.  Some compounds are enormously stable and take huge energy input along with specific conditions to degrade them, whereas some will react with the gases in the air given half the chance. 

     

    I would guess (purely a guess at this point) that the most damaging wavelengths are going to be in the ultraviolet and infrared ranges, but that still covers quite a large range.  Even if one wanted to find out the answer to this practically we could be here for the odd 20 years waiting for the answer with the thousands of different compounds which could be involved in a perfume.

    8/14/13 at 9:05am

    Tony T said:



    no definitive answer. the least amount of light possible is what I do

    8/14/13 at 9:08am

    hednic said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by badarun View Post

    here's a previous post i found...


    Quote:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chemistwithanose View Post

    Some fragrances are easier to ruin than others. The more citrusy fragrances can go bad more easily. In fact, almost any fragrance that has a moiety in it that can absorb a given wavelength of light has the potential to go bad, mostly this means ultraviolet. Our sun produces all sorts of electromagnetic radiation, but our atmosphere (and magnetic field) act as bulwark to the great majority of it.


    It's ultraviolet light that damages fragrances, particularly those with aromachemicals containing double bonds. If anyone's super interested, I can go into more detail on the mechanisms at play.


    Seeing as UV light is absorbed by most types of glass (save quartz), I'd say your fragrance is probably safe!


    Take home message: keep fragrances in the cool and the dark.
    Thanks for this.

    8/14/13 at 9:27am

    hedonist222 said:



    I've seen bottles of perfume change color and go bad at perfume shops.

    Being exposed to light 24 hours a day. That's why.
    No heat. Just lights from the very high ceiling.

    8/14/13 at 9:35am

    williampaul1969 said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post

    I've seen bottles of perfume change color and go bad at perfume shops.

    Being exposed to light 24 hours a day. That's why.
    No heat. Just lights from the very high ceiling.

     

    So even a light from my lighting fixtures will damage my perfumes as much as sunlight?

    8/14/13 at 10:00am

    hedonist222 said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by williampaul1969 View Post

    So even a light from my lighting fixtures will damage my perfumes as much as sunlight?

    By caring for a seawater tank of coral, I know that there are different types of lights.

    I'm unsure what lights were in those department stores but they looked like spotlights.

    So yes, those lights will damage perfume.

    I've seen orange Tubereuse Criminelle, green Chergui, translucent Seville a'Laube and a rainbow of other stuff.

    8/14/13 at 11:20am

    hednic said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post



    I'm unsure what lights were in those department stores but they looked like spotlights.

    .
    Similar stores like the one you speak of use those hi-intensity halogen bulbs to spotlight merchandise. Definitely not good for fragrance.

    8/16/13 at 12:32am

    saminlondon said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post

    I've seen orange Tubereuse Criminelle, green Chergui, translucent Seville a'Laube and a rainbow of other stuff.

     

    Some bottles of Chergui did go through a green phase, so probably nothing to do with the lights. Just sayin'.

     
     

    8/16/13 at 1:58am

    hedonist222 said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by saminlondon View Post

    Some bottles of Chergui did go through a green phase, so probably nothing to do with the lights. Just sayin'.


     


     

    Perfumes don't go through color changing phases. They stay the same color.

    8/16/13 at 2:20am

    saminlondon said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post


    Perfumes don't go through color changing phases. They stay the same color.

     

    Not in the case of Chergui ...

     

    http://www.basenotes.net/t/207068/chergui-juice-now-green-photos-attached

    8/16/13 at 2:40am

    hedonist222 said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by saminlondon View Post

    Not in the case of Chergui ...

    http://www.basenotes.net/t/207068/chergui-juice-now-green-photos-attached


    That thread is incorrect.

    I've seen bottles of Chergui from 2010 till today , in many countries including the Paris boutique and they've all been brown. The green ones were light-damaged bottles.

    I actually saw a bottle of Chergui morph into green over a period of a year.

    The same has happened to a bottle of Seville a'Laube. It went from orange to pale urine color.

    8/16/13 at 3:00am

    Larimar said:



    That's correct, hedonist! I too had a bell jar that gradually changed from brown to green-brown over the course of two years without being stored in the light. BUT I also own a bright-green Export bottle of Chergui that I think came as green (trebor seems to confirm this in his thread). It is also a tad fresher and heavier on coumarin.