Fresh effect

    Fresh effect

    post #1 of 44
    Thread Starter 

    Hi

    On my first steps on perfume creation i need some help please.

    I am looking for a freshner. Like Water, Light, Fresh flower effect

    If possible a molecule who also occur in nature (not synthetic) natural Isolates are ok.

    I try with menthol, but it does modifiy the note too much.

    Any idea? Does geraniol or linaly acetate give a freshnes to the mixture??

    I don't mean cooling effect on skin. Something who make blossom or fruits smell really fresh like on the tree or just flowering. Example sweet orange isnt a fresh smell for me. What can i add? to make it fresher and add some light

    Thanks

    post #2 of 44

    I cannot think of anything naturally occurring that does what you want. Neither Geraniol nor Linalol, in my opinion, does this. Not really sure what is meant by "fresh" anyway.

    post #3 of 44

    I haven't tried it myself butcis-3-hexanol acetate is meant to add freshness to florals and fruits. I was just checking it out because it happens to be a component in Quince and I would guess many other fruits. It's available both as a synthetic and a natural isolate. Although perhaps you meant that it's important that it atleast occurs in nature, rather than whether or not it has been synthesized.

    http://www.olfactik.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=63_62&product_id=342


    Edited by Pears - 8/19/13 at 6:23am
    post #4 of 44

    Hi bigbang

    Pretty new myself to this forum but I have a few suggestions which maybe of some value.

    First of all synthetics are not my area, many here are better qualified to answer. However one material that stands out for me is Floralozone, described by IFF as "Powerful, clean, green, fresh air note reminiscent of ocean breezes. Gives lift to fragrances without dominating due to its neutral nature“

    With regards to naturals I feel at home! I think it maybe worth looking at Bois de Rose aka Rosewood (Aniba rosaeodora) and possibly Ho Sho (Cinnamomum camphora), plant part in this instance - leaves - as both are Linalool rich. With the Bois de Rose I for one think it is sexy as hell and it really pushes my buttons. It is water light, clean, super fresh, and a little floral, it has it all. You could also consider looking at Bergamot Mint aka Orange Mint (Mentha citrata), on its own or with the above. These naturals should give you some interesting options. All the best with your project.

    Peace, Adam

    post #5 of 44

    On further thinking I guess that Galbanum Oil and Coriander Leaf Oil both could be considered as having a fresh feel.

    post #6 of 44

    Adam is right - Floralozone - would be a top choice synthetic for this with others like Precyclemone B, Florhydral or even something like Dimetol as other options - but unfortunately none of those are naturally occurring. Among the naturals Adam suggests I'm a fan of bergamot mint as a lifting agent myself.

    Linalyl acetate occurs in nature and is a fresher option than linalool, similarly geranyl acetate is fresher than geraniol, but I think my top recommendation for a floral-fresh material that occurs in nature would be phenyl ethyl alcohol, sometimes called PEA or rose alcohol, it is the fresh top-note from rose, but also present in lots of other flower scents. If you want it to be derived from a natural source it is available as an isolate, but I would use the synthetic form which is identical and much cheaper.

    post #7 of 44

    Me again, about to log off and read the comment by David. I just want to use this more of a chance to say Hi to you David, so erm, hi!

    I have read your comments on this forum with great interest across the past few months and without sounding like Im kissing **** I just wanted to say thank you to you as I for one have learned a lot from the information you kindly share especially on the subject of synthetics.

    I agree about Galbanum, but for me Im not sure Corriander Leaf has a fresh feel, in fact when I smell it I think of carrot and corriander soup. For me its warm, cosy, Autum/Winter like, vegetative but that probably because it makes me think of soup!

    Peace, Adam

    PS - Chris, just read your comments but with the upmost respect regarding 'fresh effect' I still think nothing beats a bottle of Bois de Rose!! As for Rose Alcohol, Id second that, utterly gorgeous.

    post #8 of 44

    Thank you for the kind words. Are you anything to do with Hermitage Oils the company? Are you, in fact Hermitage Oils, the company?

    I love Bois de Rose; my only concern is that Rosewood is an endangered specie and the oil is very difficult to get hold of. Ho is easier, and much cheaper. I still don't think it smells fresh though, whilst Coriander Leaf is green and aldehydic and...fresh.

    post #9 of 44

    Hi David

    Short and sweet as my tea is ready (us Yorkshire folk call our dinner..tea!! well I do! and I actually call my lunch...dinner!!!), roast chicken with all the trimmings!

    To answer your question, yes I own Hermitage Oils. Rest asured Im not here to step on toes or to promote my wares and tares at all, I genuinely don't need to. I just happened to read a comment by "Pears" last week and as I did not know who Pears was and taking into account the comment I had to sign up so I could communicate with the chap..Hi Pears if your reading this.

    I would private mail you if thats the right terminology David but truthfully I dont know how to do work my way around the BN backend yet. Anyway if Im stepping on toes say the word.

    Peace, Adam

    post #10 of 44

    Hi Adam. It was very kind of you to join just to answer my question on your benzoin. It would be great to see you on the boards in the future.

    post #11 of 44

    You are not stepping on anyones' toes. Private e-mailing is not that difficult ; I can do it and I am a total IT idiot. Just click on my profile, then go to "Send e-mail"; that should do it.

    post #12 of 44

    Fresh naturals are so many and so little. For my nose Precyclemone B ("clean, tenacious, ozone note with aldehydic warmth and diffusion. Booster for fragrances requiring a fresh outdors effect", description from hermitageoils site) is quite similar to Coriander seed EO, this oil have some soapy and clean linens aspect, I agree with you, David, about coriander. For fresh effect I love use rosmarinus officinalis verbenone and camphor type, Lemon scented ironbark (Eucalyptus staigeriana), Cinnamosma fragrans (Saro), Lavandin Super, Mimosa decurrens absolute, Larch (larix laricina), Wintergreen in low levels for lifting, brighting floral effect, Lemon tea tree (Leptospermum petersonii), quauacwood, Myrthus communis, Dill seed CO2, Bursera penicillata, Elemi... All depends on the context and purpose. But Rosewood, for me very difficult in use, and I can't associate it with freshness, here I agree with David again.
    High, clean, watery space have Calone, I like this synthetic because it don't have objectionable, garbage odors, cheap sweetness. Florazone fresh and ozonic in first hours, later (maybe it is not necessary, so overdoing deep analysis) becomes dirty chemistry, cheap chewing gum sweet, something awfull, I can't recognize what it is. Can't remember. Of course, in perfumes these notes disappears.


    Edited by Ramute - 8/19/13 at 2:05pm
    post #13 of 44

    Hi David, Ramute, Pears and BigBang


    David – I’m classed as an IT Dinosaur, one above an IT idiot! I’ll have a look though and pm you.


    David & Ramute – seems I’m on my own then with my thinking (not the first time!) as I think anyone would be hard pushed to find a fresher effect from a natural than what bois de rose has to offer. Also I really don’t get the fresh effect from Coriander leaf essential oil at all and if ‘bigbang’ was keen to go forward with a Coriander then I’d opt for the seed which actually has a somewhat citrus quality about it – although I actually would not consider Coriander regardless of plant part at all taking into account what ‘bigbang’ is seeking.


    ‘bigbang’ says - “I am looking for a freshner. Like Water, Light, Fresh flower effect”. When I read this I personally think of the fresh air that floods my home when I open up my patio doors on a late summers evening, that cool, refreshing breeze that sweeps into my home and has a soothing, calming and even cooling effect upon me and my family. I say this because maybe I am misinterpreting what ‘big bang’ seeks based upon the response from David and Ramute.


    Ramute I again have to respectfully disagree, quite strongly actually. Keeping it brief so as I don’t put people to sleep (and so as I can watch Shaun of the Dead which is on TV, Shaun Peggs best film) , but Myrtle for me is ‘warm with a sweet tang’, Mimosa decurrens for me is ‘sticky sweet floral’. I maybe wrong (If I am I apologise) but I think you mean guiacwood (Bulnesia sarmienti), if so and again for me personally I think it exudes woody, smoky meat qualities with a sprinkling of vanilla and sugar.


    None of these materials for me exude a ‘fresh effect’ anywhere near that of bois de rose. I do genuinely think the Rose Alcohol suggestion by Chris is an excellent material, I’m pretty new to that myself and I was blown away with the fresh effect I got the first time I played with that. I also stand by my Floralozone comment, that stuff is stunning; really ‘bubble’ light, playful with a lemonade sweetness and summer time vibe. I hope this is of a little use to ‘bigbang’ and maybe a few others that read it. Keep well,

    Peace, Adam


    Pears – Appreciating the love!

    post #14 of 44

    Perhaps some of the differences in opinion could be down to the natural materials coming from different sources. Everyone has different neural wiring also, which can make the sense of smell a very subjective experience. I second the idea of using Rosemary verbenone chemotype, which is very fresh and fruity, while also having much better tenacity than the cineol chemotype.

    post #15 of 44
    For "freshness" two things you should keep in mind. Green and moist.
    post #16 of 44

    Hi Pears, last one from me regarding this thread. Just to say I hear what you say but my comments/suggestions are based solely around what the thread starter is seeking to achieve. Many naturals may well be classed as ‘fresh’, I can reel off a mammoth list but it does not mean they fit the thread starter’s brief at all. I stand by what I say completely and think the Rose Alcohol and Galbanum are also very good suggestions. Peace, Adam

    Ps - Just thought of another one that will fit the bill perfectly - Olive Absolute.

    post #17 of 44

    Among naturals, would citruses be regarded as fresh? I know there's also a cucumber distillate that should smell like cucumbers, but it's expensive.

    For green fresh effects, galbanum is too bitter for me, but katclass="

    8/19/13 at 3:42am

    bigbang said:



    Hi

    On my first steps on perfume creation i need some help please.

    I am looking for a freshner. Like Water, Light, Fresh flower effect

    If possible a molecule who also occur in nature (not synthetic) natural Isolates are ok.

    I try with menthol, but it does modifiy the note too much.

    Any idea? Does geraniol or linaly acetate give a freshnes to the mixture??

    I don't mean cooling effect on skin. Something who make blossom or fruits smell really fresh like on the tree or just flowering. Example sweet orange isnt a fresh smell for me. What can i add? to make it fresher and add some light

    Thanks

    8/19/13 at 5:14am

    David Ruskin said:



    I cannot think of anything naturally occurring that does what you want. Neither Geraniol nor Linalol, in my opinion, does this. Not really sure what is meant by "fresh" anyway.

    8/19/13 at 5:26am

    Pears said:



    I haven't tried it myself butcis-3-hexanol acetate is meant to add freshness to florals and fruits. I was just checking it out because it happens to be a component in Quince and I would guess many other fruits. It's available both as a synthetic and a natural isolate. Although perhaps you meant that it's important that it atleast occurs in nature, rather than whether or not it has been synthesized.

    http://www.olfactik.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=63_62&product_id=342


    Edited by Pears - 8/19/13 at 6:23am

    8/19/13 at 9:23am

    Hermitage Oils said:



    Hi bigbang

    Pretty new myself to this forum but I have a few suggestions which maybe of some value.

    First of all synthetics are not my area, many here are better qualified to answer. However one material that stands out for me is Floralozone, described by IFF as "Powerful, clean, green, fresh air note reminiscent of ocean breezes. Gives lift to fragrances without dominating due to its neutral nature“

    With regards to naturals I feel at home! I think it maybe worth looking at Bois de Rose aka Rosewood (Aniba rosaeodora) and possibly Ho Sho (Cinnamomum camphora), plant part in this instance - leaves - as both are Linalool rich. With the Bois de Rose I for one think it is sexy as hell and it really pushes my buttons. It is water light, clean, super fresh, and a little floral, it has it all. You could also consider looking at Bergamot Mint aka Orange Mint (Mentha citrata), on its own or with the above. These naturals should give you some interesting options. All the best with your project.

    Peace, Adam

    8/19/13 at 9:23am

    David Ruskin said:



    On further thinking I guess that Galbanum Oil and Coriander Leaf Oil both could be considered as having a fresh feel.

    8/19/13 at 10:11am

    Chris Bartlett said:



    Adam is right - Floralozone - would be a top choice synthetic for this with others like Precyclemone B, Florhydral or even something like Dimetol as other options - but unfortunately none of those are naturally occurring. Among the naturals Adam suggests I'm a fan of bergamot mint as a lifting agent myself.

    Linalyl acetate occurs in nature and is a fresher option than linalool, similarly geranyl acetate is fresher than geraniol, but I think my top recommendation for a floral-fresh material that occurs in nature would be phenyl ethyl alcohol, sometimes called PEA or rose alcohol, it is the fresh top-note from rose, but also present in lots of other flower scents. If you want it to be derived from a natural source it is available as an isolate, but I would use the synthetic form which is identical and much cheaper.

    8/19/13 at 10:28am

    Hermitage Oils said:



    Me again, about to log off and read the comment by David. I just want to use this more of a chance to say Hi to you David, so erm, hi!

    I have read your comments on this forum with great interest across the past few months and without sounding like Im kissing **** I just wanted to say thank you to you as I for one have learned a lot from the information you kindly share especially on the subject of synthetics.

    I agree about Galbanum, but for me Im not sure Corriander Leaf has a fresh feel, in fact when I smell it I think of carrot and corriander soup. For me its warm, cosy, Autum/Winter like, vegetative but that probably because it makes me think of soup!

    Peace, Adam

    PS - Chris, just read your comments but with the upmost respect regarding 'fresh effect' I still think nothing beats a bottle of Bois de Rose!! As for Rose Alcohol, Id second that, utterly gorgeous.

    8/19/13 at 10:34am

    David Ruskin said:



    Thank you for the kind words. Are you anything to do with Hermitage Oils the company? Are you, in fact Hermitage Oils, the company?

    I love Bois de Rose; my only concern is that Rosewood is an endangered specie and the oil is very difficult to get hold of. Ho is easier, and much cheaper. I still don't think it smells fresh though, whilst Coriander Leaf is green and aldehydic and...fresh.

    8/19/13 at 11:02am

    Hermitage Oils said:



    Hi David

    Short and sweet as my tea is ready (us Yorkshire folk call our dinner..tea!! well I do! and I actually call my lunch...dinner!!!), roast chicken with all the trimmings!

    To answer your question, yes I own Hermitage Oils. Rest asured Im not here to step on toes or to promote my wares and tares at all, I genuinely don't need to. I just happened to read a comment by "Pears" last week and as I did not know who Pears was and taking into account the comment I had to sign up so I could communicate with the chap..Hi Pears if your reading this.

    I would private mail you if thats the right terminology David but truthfully I dont know how to do work my way around the BN backend yet. Anyway if Im stepping on toes say the word.

    Peace, Adam

    8/19/13 at 11:04am

    Pears said:



    Hi Adam. It was very kind of you to join just to answer my question on your benzoin. It would be great to see you on the boards in the future.

    8/19/13 at 1:43pm

    David Ruskin said:



    You are not stepping on anyones' toes. Private e-mailing is not that difficult ; I can do it and I am a total IT idiot. Just click on my profile, then go to "Send e-mail"; that should do it.

    8/19/13 at 1:49pm

    Ramute said:



    Fresh naturals are so many and so little. For my nose Precyclemone B ("clean, tenacious, ozone note with aldehydic warmth and diffusion. Booster for fragrances requiring a fresh outdors effect", description from hermitageoils site) is quite similar to Coriander seed EO, this oil have some soapy and clean linens aspect, I agree with you, David, about coriander. For fresh effect I love use rosmarinus officinalis verbenone and camphor type, Lemon scented ironbark (Eucalyptus staigeriana), Cinnamosma fragrans (Saro), Lavandin Super, Mimosa decurrens absolute, Larch (larix laricina), Wintergreen in low levels for lifting, brighting floral effect, Lemon tea tree (Leptospermum petersonii), quauacwood, Myrthus communis, Dill seed CO2, Bursera penicillata, Elemi... All depends on the context and purpose. But Rosewood, for me very difficult in use, and I can't associate it with freshness, here I agree with David again.
    High, clean, watery space have Calone, I like this synthetic because it don't have objectionable, garbage odors, cheap sweetness. Florazone fresh and ozonic in first hours, later (maybe it is not necessary, so overdoing deep analysis) becomes dirty chemistry, cheap chewing gum sweet, something awfull, I can't recognize what it is. Can't remember. Of course, in perfumes these notes disappears.


    Edited by Ramute - 8/19/13 at 2:05pm

    8/19/13 at 4:03pm

    Hermitage Oils said:



    Hi David, Ramute, Pears and BigBang


    David – I’m classed as an IT Dinosaur, one above an IT idiot! I’ll have a look though and pm you.


    David & Ramute – seems I’m on my own then with my thinking (not the first time!) as I think anyone would be hard pushed to find a fresher effect from a natural than what bois de rose has to offer. Also I really don’t get the fresh effect from Coriander leaf essential oil at all and if ‘bigbang’ was keen to go forward with a Coriander then I’d opt for the seed which actually has a somewhat citrus quality about it – although I actually would not consider Coriander regardless of plant part at all taking into account what ‘bigbang’ is seeking.


    ‘bigbang’ says - “I am looking for a freshner. Like Water, Light, Fresh flower effect”. When I read this I personally think of the fresh air that floods my home when I open up my patio doors on a late summers evening, that cool, refreshing breeze that sweeps into my home and has a soothing, calming and even cooling effect upon me and my family. I say this because maybe I am misinterpreting what ‘big bang’ seeks based upon the response from David and Ramute.


    Ramute I again have to respectfully disagree, quite strongly actually. Keeping it brief so as I don’t put people to sleep (and so as I can watch Shaun of the Dead which is on TV, Shaun Peggs best film) , but Myrtle for me is ‘warm with a sweet tang’, Mimosa decurrens for me is ‘sticky sweet floral’. I maybe wrong (If I am I apologise) but I think you mean guiacwood (Bulnesia sarmienti), if so and again for me personally I think it exudes woody, smoky meat qualities with a sprinkling of vanilla and sugar.


    None of these materials for me exude a ‘fresh effect’ anywhere near that of bois de rose. I do genuinely think the Rose Alcohol suggestion by Chris is an excellent material, I’m pretty new to that myself and I was blown away with the fresh effect I got the first time I played with that. I also stand by my Floralozone comment, that stuff is stunning; really ‘bubble’ light, playful with a lemonade sweetness and summer time vibe. I hope this is of a little use to ‘bigbang’ and maybe a few others that read it. Keep well,

    Peace, Adam


    Pears – Appreciating the love!

    8/19/13 at 5:20pm

    Pears said:



    Perhaps some of the differences in opinion could be down to the natural materials coming from different sources. Everyone has different neural wiring also, which can make the sense of smell a very subjective experience. I second the idea of using Rosemary verbenone chemotype, which is very fresh and fruity, while also having much better tenacity than the cineol chemotype.

    8/19/13 at 6:05pm

    ION said:



    For "freshness" two things you should keep in mind. Green and moist.

    8/19/13 at 6:22pm

    Hermitage Oils said:



    Hi Pears, last one from me regarding this thread. Just to say I hear what you say but my comments/suggestions are based solely around what the thread starter is seeking to achieve. Many naturals may well be classed as ‘fresh’, I can reel off a mammoth list but it does not mean they fit the thread starter’s brief at all. I stand by what I say completely and think the Rose Alcohol and Galbanum are also very good suggestions. Peace, Adam

    Ps - Just thought of another one that will fit the bill perfectly - Olive Absolute.

    8/19/13 at 10:38pm

    ariodant said:



    Among naturals, would citruses be regarded as fresh? I know there's also a cucumber distillate that should smell like cucumbers, but it's expensive.

    For green fresh effects, galbanum is too bitter for me, but katclass="