Leather accords

    Leather accords

    post #1 of 20
    Thread Starter 

    Howdy all,

    Great to have a resource like this around, and thanks for everyone's time and attention in advance.

    I'm a newbie, but I do have a bit of a science background, having done some undergraduate organic and bio-chemistry.

    I've been playing around with some absolutes, aromachemicals, and premade accords from PA. I'm using FCO as my solvent.

    Made a very successful wood accord based on vetiver and sandalwood, and also made a perfect simulacrum of Molecule 01 with Iso E and FCO (although I note the FCO muct be slightly more viscous as it sprays from the atomiser funny, and also dries more slowly).

    Struggling with the leather accord. It is the one from PA and contains okaumal, castoreum, pharaone, styrax, ebanol, hercolyn and safraleine. I find it a bit strident. Reminds me of the base note of VC & A pH, which I don't like so much. I want to make it "warmer" somehow, more like Cuir de Russie (if that's possible!). Would musk and animalics help? I was thinking of adding cetalox and/ or cosmone. Was also considering synthetic civet, although after last night's disaster would have to dilute it down a lot more.

    Any other suggestions for mellowing a leather accord?

    On a side note, I'm also struggling to get the cetalox crystals to dissolve. Should I assume this is because I am using FCO instead of ethanol?

    Are there any other major disadvantages to using FCO, apart from the slight viscosity issues? I know that it also won't mix with oils carried in ethanol.

    Thank you

    post #2 of 20

    Cuir de Russie is very classical, so probably use more classic ingredients. You absolutely need coumarin and either birch tar oil or cade oil (a small amount will probably do.

    post #3 of 20

    Here are two Cuir de Russie Formulas, the first is pretty old... and uses older ingredients not used anymore much...

    Rectified Birch tar only though, and find appropriate Musk subsititutes:

    Cuir de Russie - (Chanel 1924)

    Cuir de Russie - (Chanel 1924) - If perfume allows the imagination to paint vivid pictures, Cuir de Russie is a fragrance that seems to embody a whole story. From the shimmering dry aldehydic top to the warm leathery base, it unveils one image after another. One can almost envision an elegant woman reaching into a black leather handbag, her hand rummaging through its contents: red lipstick, powder compact exuding an aroma of violets, a silver cigarette case... The owner of the fragrant handbag also seems to be fond of listening to jazz in smoky clubs since Cuir de Russie has an alluring note redolent of soft tobacco pervading its leathery smoothness. It is indeed a scent of the fine handbag and the warm skin of its beautiful owner.

    Cuir de Russie, "Russian Leather" was a popular theme at the end of the 19th century, with similarly named fragrances offered by houses like Guerlain and LT Piver. Created in 1924 by Ernest Beaux, the fragrance was intended to provoke and shock, being dedicated to the woman who is not afraid to neither smoke in public nor speak her mind. ..

    CCM

    Do not know this measurement

    Grams

    Formula -

    Cuir de Russie Elements

    Code

    15

    Solution Iris

    1.5

    Vanillin

    70

    Bergamot

    8

    Bulgarian rose

    20

    Artiicial Rose

    40

    Birch tar

    6

    Lemon

    12

    Ambra - (Amber)

    50

    Ketonmoschus solution (Musk Ketone)

    75

    Ambrettmoschus solution (Amber Musk)

    12

    Rose liqued

    5

    Jamin liqued

    10

    Orangeblossom

    20

    Resinoid Opoponax

    3

    Sandal

    5

    Cassie ligued

    2

    Cumarin

    2

    Civet artificial

    5

    Patchouli solution

    10

    Neroli

    4

    Macis - (Mace)

    500

    Vanilla tincture

    120

    Moschus tincture (Musk Deer tincture)

    200

    Civet tincture 200

    300

    Castoreum tincture

    3500

    Alcohol

    4620

    375.5

    Total Count

    4995.5

    Cuir de Russie (Russian Leather - Jellinek)


    All measurements in grams


    Birch tar oil 60
    Castoreum 10% 150
    Rose otto 20
    Styrax resinoid 100
    bergamot 100
    sandalwood 10
    Patchouli 5
    jasmine absolute 50
    musk ambrette (use ambrettolide) 50
    musk ketone 80
    exaltolide 10% 20
    vetiver acetate 100
    tonka resinoid 30
    vanilla resinoid 20
    vanillin 50
    labdanum resinoid 100
    clary sage 5
    oakmoss decolorized 10
    tuberose absolute 7
    acetophenone 3
    cassie absolute 10
    lemon oil 20

    post #4 of 20

    Wow, that's fantastic Paul.

    Many thanks for posting this.

    Vintage Chanel Cuir de Russie is my Holy Grail.

    post #5 of 20

    'CCM Do not know this measurement'

    Cubic centimetre?

    -

    post #6 of 20

    That second recipe is delightful. Though I read that mention about the 'shimmeringdry aldehydic top" and yet see no aldehydes in the recipes...

    post #7 of 20

    The First Formula, (I eschew and recommend against using the word 'recipe', a recipe is for cooking, Perfumery is a science...),

    is supposed to be closer to the 1924 version of Cuir de Russie, and is prefaced by the text mentioning the topnotes. The second formula is newer, by a different composer, and does not relate directly to the text, except for following the main idea of Russian Leather. Bergamot and lemon are filled with aldehyde-like things, but the text may not have been written by a perfumer specifying the contents, I can't remember who wrote the text, or where I got it from.

    All of that text and two formulas came out of my files for Leather Formulas.

    post #8 of 20

    When I was twelve my first calogne was a bottle of English Leather I scored for a quarter at a yard sale. To this day leather fragrances are some of my favorite. I'll keep these and try them for myself once my aroma chems come in the mail.
    THANKS!beer.gif

    post #9 of 20
    (Digressing for a moment: Paul, your comments on the use of the word formula vs the word recipe are well taken. Perfumery is a marriage of science and art, but so is cooking; and if you think there is no science to cooking then clearly you have not done very much of it.)
    post #10 of 20
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by velvetsevenView Post

    (Digressing for a moment: Paul, your comments on the use of the word formula vs the word recipe are well taken. Perfumery is a marriage of science and art, but so is cooking; and if you think there is no science to cooking then clearly you have not done very much of it.)

    Agreed that Cooking is Science as well... esp when it is done by a well learned/trained individual or group...

    "Recipe"is decidedly unprofessional when referring to Perfumery formulation. And since it is now my profession, I want to place myself in the professional pantheon, and out of the kiddy league internet hacks who tell people to use glycerin to make their perfume "recipe" with, and other such nonsense. I make a formula that is highly complex, often with hundreds, or hundreds and hundreds of individual chemical constituents. That's not a recipe. That's Chemistry - and Art.laugh.gif

    I'm not playing at this. I want this to support my family and make me money to live, retire on, and pay for my kid's college educations. I'm out to make an empire, if you will. So I take it seriously. Where's my tough face...? cool.gif

    post #11 of 20
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pkilerView Post

    Agreed that Cooking is Science as well... esp when it is done by a well learned/trained individual or group...

    "Recipe"is decidedly unprofessional when referring to Perfumery formulation. And since it is now my profession, I want to place myself in the professional pantheon, and out of the kiddy league internet hacks who tell people to use glycerin to make their perfume "recipe" with, and other such nonsense. I make a formula that is highly complex, often with hundreds, or hundreds and hundreds of individual chemical constituents. That's not a recipe. That's Chemistry - and Art.laugh.gif

    I'm not playing at this. I want this to support my family and make me money to live, retire on, and pay for my kid's college educations. I'm out to make an empire, if you will. So I take it seriously. Where's my tough face...? cool.gif

    Heisenberg, is that you?

    (Sorry for the offtopic, I just had to...) :)

    post #12 of 20

    Yeah, that's me, but I wear the same hat as Frank Lloyd Wright, Georgia O'Keeffe, and James West. Oh, and I still have some hair too...

    grin.gif

    post #13 of 20

    This is Vinny, one of my guys... He helps me out with let's just say,... Delicate matters.

    But he's a little shy around cameras though.

    +

    This is right before we hit a rival lab... I can't show my hands so's I dontincriminate myself with the hardware in my hands.

    Fortunately my lab sits on a remote New Mexico high plain.

    post #14 of 20




Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000