Terrible eBay experience with "WeMakeBeauty"

    Terrible eBay experience with "WeMakeBeauty"

    post #1 of 52
    Thread Starter 

    Azzaro PH is my SoTD.  I love the stuff and wear it 3-4 days per week.  Upon the recommendation of EricRico and some other longtime Basenoters, I decided to try the vintage stuff.  Vintage Azzaro has more oakmoss and (I hear) better longevity.  You can tell a vintage bottle by the silver logo sticker it has (as opposed to the embossed "A" on the reformulated bottles).

     

    Anyway, I found a seller with the silver sticker stuff in stock on eBay.  The price was good, so I sent them an email to confirm it was the vintage.  They confirmed that it was.  10 days later, a box of the reformulated juice arrived in the mail.

     

    I immediately wrote to them and sent pictures of the bottle.  They admitted the mistake but said: "Well, technically it still is Azzaro PH."  After several polite but firm emails from me, they finally offered a 30% discount (minus shipping!) and then stopped responding.  UNBELIEVABLE!!!!  Mind you, I paid over $40 for the bottle + shipping--new Azzaro is readily available for about 1/2 that much.

     

    Anyway, I would recommend avoiding this outfit for any online purchases.  Not only do they misrepresent their product, they have absolutely terrible customer service and communication.  Hopefully eBay will force them to issue a refund.  Ugh!

    post #2 of 52

    File a complaint with paypal..

    Also leave negative feedback

    post #3 of 52

    If you paid through PayPal you can file a dispute.

    post #4 of 52
    Thread Starter 
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tony T View Post

    File a complaint with paypal..

    Also leave negative feedback

     

    Done and done.  Why don't these business understand that they need to treat their customers right?  One negative review probably costs them hundreds of dollars in lost business.

     

    Unforunately, eBay/Paypal take like 30 days to process refund requests.  I'll let everyone know how it turns out.

    post #5 of 52
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lairdangus View Post

    Done and done.  Why don't these business understand that they need to treat their customers right?  One negative review probably costs them hundreds of dollars in lost business.

    Unforunately, eBay/Paypal take like 30 days to process refund requests.  I'll let everyone know how it turns out.
    You did the right thing by not letting this go and addressing it.
    post #6 of 52
    Thanks for the heads-up. Good to let others know so they can be avoided in the future.
    post #7 of 52
    Thread Starter 

    I actually work in the "customer experience" field, so I decided to run some numbers on the cost of unhappy customers.

     

    In order to piss off a customer to the point where they go online and post something negative about you, your lapses have to be pretty egregious.  Usually, customer complaints represent just the tip of the iceberg.  For every customer who comes forward with an issue, there are generally around 20 others who experienced similar problems.

     

    Some other fun facts:

     

    • More than 90% of customers consider Word of Mouth the best source of information about products and services. (McKinsey & Co.)
    • 80% of customers trust Word of Mouth more than any other source of information. (Forrester Research)
    • Word of Mouth is 9x as effective as advertising in converting unfavorable or neutral dispositions into positive attitudes. (Day)
     

    For an online fragrance retailer, the math would work out as follows:

     

    • Average annual revenue per customer:  $150  (conservatively)
    • # of "negative referrals" an angry customer generates: 15 (White House Office on Consumer Affairs)
    • Potential lost revenue due to each angry customer: $2,250 ($150 x 15).  In a way, each unique view of this thread could be said to be costing the retailer $150, since it is unlikely that anyone who sees this material will order from them in the future.

     

    It ALWAYS makes sense to take care of your customers, no matter what business you're in.  Not only is it the right thing to do, it's really the only way to survive and grow in a competitive marketplace. 


    Edited by lairdangus - 8/22/13 at 12:02pm
    post #8 of 52

    I'm sorry for your bad experience, and also APPLAUD your letting us know.  I really wish I saw more of these types of posts, so we all can better avoid shady sellers like this!

    post #9 of 52

    If the seller in the op's case confirmed it was vintage, that's terrible, and Ebay should absolutely refund the purchase price.   

     

    The op did exactly what he was supposed to do by asking the seller BEFORE bidding whether the photo was accurate, and depicted vintage product. 

     

    We all know that oftentimes, an Ebay seller will use an old photograph of a particular scent, and place the words "stock photo" or something like it under the photograph. That means the photograph isn't of the actual item, and was likely just taken from a random internet source. If a fragrance is reformulated, and the stock photograph depicts the older packaging, please be careful! If you're buying the fragrance because it is the older version, always send an email (like the op did) to the seller asking if the box is exactly as depicted, so you avoid any unpleasantness in the future. 

     

    I had this happen to me with Kouros -- some sellers were using stock photographs with the old packaging, and when I'd ask, they'd say that the version they had actually had the new packaging. This did not necessarily mean that the seller was trying to defraud me; some sellers are unaware of when a fragrance is reformulated (of course, when they use words like "vintage" or "original" with an inflated price, this doesn't apply). 

    post #10 of 52
    Thread Starter 

    It just keeps getting better!  Here is the email the "customer service" rep sent me after seeing this thread:

     

    "Dear Customer,

     

    Really for you to be an adult.  You've handle this situation very immaturely...if it was up to me we wouldn't refund you anything.  But because your still a paying customer and no matter how wrong you are we will still give you the respect enough to give you the refund..."

     

    So they lied about the product, refused to do a refund, and then stopped responding to me when I filed a complaint!  And now their customer service reps are sending me insulting emails.  LOL!!!

     

    The good news is they say they're going to issue a refund.  We'll see.  If they do, I'll let everyone know.

     

    Meanwhile, avoid this fly-by-night operation like the PLAGUE!

     

    I researched the company a bit and they appear to be some kind of Chinese grey-market importer.  

    post #11 of 52
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lairdangus View Post

    It just keeps getting better!  Here is the email the "customer service" rep sent me after seeing this thread:

     

    "Dear Customer,

     

    Really for you to be an adult.  You've handle this situation very immaturely...if it was up to me we wouldn't refund you anything.  But because your still a paying customer and no matter how wrong you are we will still give you the respect enough to give you the refund..."

     

    So they lied about the product, refused to do a refund, and then stopped responding to me when I filed a complaint!  And now their customer service reps are sending me insulting emails.  LOL!!!

     

    The good news is they say they're going to issue a refund.  We'll see.  If they do, I'll let everyone know.

     

    Meanwhile, avoid this fly-by-night operation like the PLAGUE!

     

    I researched the company a bit and they appear to be some kind of Chinese grey-market importer.  

     

    I would forward that email to Ebay.  Even if they don't do anything about it, it will hopefully be 'on file' for when other people complain about them.  Surely after a certain number of complaints something is done.

     

    Thing is, you weren't wrong...at all.  The entire reason you were buying it was to have the vintage version.  And while most people would assume the photo used would be what they got unless 'stock photo' was on the description, you even went so far as to email them to make sure...AND THEY CONFIRMED IT.

     

    They are completely in the wrong, their backhanded 'customer service' is inept, thank you for posting this, and I would love to see you post your reply to their email.

     

    Needless to say, I will NEVER buy from this company, and I buy on Ebay quite often.

     

    P.S. Oh, and after you get your refund, do post them a link to this thread.

    post #12 of 52
    Thread Starter 

    Oh, I have already directed them to this thread!  I suspect that is why they are promising a refund now.

     

    Here was my response to their customer service rep:

     

    "I work in the customer service field, so I know a little bit about how to handle these situations.  When a company makes a mistake and the customer says what he or she wants...do it.  Don't negotiate with them, offering small discounts.  Just issue the full refund and move on. As I told you, if you had done that, I would have thanked you and posted a positive review.  Instead, you made the situation much worse.  I even told you exactly what I wanted and how I would respond--most customers wouldn't bother to do that.  They would just tell everyone they know about your poor service without giving you a fair warning.

     

    It is always good business to be honest and fair with your customers.  I hope your company learns from this and changes the way they do business."

     

     

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Slumberhoused View Post

     

    I would forward that email to Ebay.  Even if they don't do anything about it, it will hopefully be 'on file' for when other people complain about them.  Surely after a certain number of complaints something is done.

     

    Thing is, you weren't wrong...at all.  The entire reason you were buying it was to have the vintage version.  And while most people would assume the photo used would be what they got unless 'stock photo' was on the description, you even went so far as to email them to make sure...AND THEY CONFIRMED IT.

     

    They are completely in the wrong, their backhanded 'customer service' is inept, thank you for posting this, and I would love to see you post your reply to their email.

     

    Needless to say, I will NEVER buy from this company, and I buy on Ebay quite often.

     

    P.S. Oh, and after you get your refund, do post them a link to this thread.

    post #13 of 52
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lairdangus View Post

    Oh, I have already directed them to this thread!  I suspect that is why they are promising a refund now.

     

    Here was my response to their customer service rep:

     

    "I work in the customer service field, so I know a little bit about how to handle these situations.  When a company makes a mistake and the customer says what he or she wants...do it.  Don't negotiate with them, offering small discounts.  Just issue the full refund and move on. As I told you, if you had done that, I would have thanked you and posted a positive review.  Instead, you made the situation much worse.  I even told you exactly what I wanted and how I would respond--most customers wouldn't bother to do that.  They would just tell everyone they know about your poor service without giving you a fair warning.

     

    It is always good business to be honest and fair with your customers.  I hope your company learns from this and changes the way they do business."

     

     

     

     

    Reading that response vs. their 'customer service' one, the whole issue of who is being mature is absolutely laughable. 

     

    Again, thanks for telling us.

    post #14 of 52

    If the seller (1) told you in a presale email the product was pre-reformulation in the older packaging, and (2) admitted after the sale that it made a mistake and the product was different, this should be a slam-dunk refund case for paypal. Seriously, it's not even a good faith dispute.

     

    Why any seller would raise an issue over this is beyond me, nor can I fathom why any seller would send snarky emails in connection with a dispute like this. 

    post #15 of 52
    Thread Starter 

    At this point, it is just comical.  The latest from "customer service:"

     

    "Enough of the annoying argument...I will not tolerate your crude manners anymore.  You've already done enough with the insults and you can either stop respond or don't purchase from us anymore if you don't like our services there's plenty of others that enjoy the services."

     

    Mind you, I've actually been quite measured in my tone and responses to them, if for no other reason than I'm FLABBERGASTED by the stupidity.

     

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by barclaydetolly View Post

    If the seller (1) told you in a presale email the product was pre-reformulation in the older packaging, and (2) admitted after the sale that it made a mistake and the product was different, this should be a slam-dunk refund case for paypal. Seriously, it's not even a good faith dispute.

     

    Why any seller would raise an issue over this is beyond me, nor can I fathom why any seller would send snarky emails in connection with a dispute like this. 

    8/21/13 at 7:33pm

    lairdangus said:



    Azzaro PH is my SoTD.  I love the stuff and wear it 3-4 days per week.  Upon the recommendation of EricRico and some other longtime Basenoters, I decided to try the vintage stuff.  Vintage Azzaro has more oakmoss and (I hear) better longevity.  You can tell a vintage bottle by the silver logo sticker it has (as opposed to the embossed "A" on the reformulated bottles).

     

    Anyway, I found a seller with the silver sticker stuff in stock on eBay.  The price was good, so I sent them an email to confirm it was the vintage.  They confirmed that it was.  10 days later, a box of the reformulated juice arrived in the mail.

     

    I immediately wrote to them and sent pictures of the bottle.  They admitted the mistake but said: "Well, technically it still is Azzaro PH."  After several polite but firm emails from me, they finally offered a 30% discount (minus shipping!) and then stopped responding.  UNBELIEVABLE!!!!  Mind you, I paid over $40 for the bottle + shipping--new Azzaro is readily available for about 1/2 that much.

     

    Anyway, I would recommend avoiding this outfit for any online purchases.  Not only do they misrepresent their product, they have absolutely terrible customer service and communication.  Hopefully eBay will force them to issue a refund.  Ugh!

    8/21/13 at 7:39pm

    Tony T said:



    File a complaint with paypal..

    Also leave negative feedback

    8/21/13 at 7:41pm

    sophisticatedscent said:



    If you paid through PayPal you can file a dispute.

    8/21/13 at 7:44pm

    lairdangus said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tony T View Post

    File a complaint with paypal..

    Also leave negative feedback

     

    Done and done.  Why don't these business understand that they need to treat their customers right?  One negative review probably costs them hundreds of dollars in lost business.

     

    Unforunately, eBay/Paypal take like 30 days to process refund requests.  I'll let everyone know how it turns out.

    8/21/13 at 8:02pm

    hednic said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lairdangus View Post

    Done and done.  Why don't these business understand that they need to treat their customers right?  One negative review probably costs them hundreds of dollars in lost business.

    Unforunately, eBay/Paypal take like 30 days to process refund requests.  I'll let everyone know how it turns out.
    You did the right thing by not letting this go and addressing it.

    8/21/13 at 8:57pm

    dougczar said:



    Thanks for the heads-up. Good to let others know so they can be avoided in the future.

    8/22/13 at 7:31am

    lairdangus said:



    I actually work in the "customer experience" field, so I decided to run some numbers on the cost of unhappy customers.

     

    In order to piss off a customer to the point where they go online and post something negative about you, your lapses have to be pretty egregious.  Usually, customer complaints represent just the tip of the iceberg.  For every customer who comes forward with an issue, there are generally around 20 others who experienced similar problems.

     

    Some other fun facts:

     

    • More than 90% of customers consider Word of Mouth the best source of information about products and services. (McKinsey & Co.)
    • 80% of customers trust Word of Mouth more than any other source of information. (Forrester Research)
    • Word of Mouth is 9x as effective as advertising in converting unfavorable or neutral dispositions into positive attitudes. (Day)
     

    For an online fragrance retailer, the math would work out as follows:

     

    • Average annual revenue per customer:  $150  (conservatively)
    • # of "negative referrals" an angry customer generates: 15 (White House Office on Consumer Affairs)
    • Potential lost revenue due to each angry customer: $2,250 ($150 x 15).  In a way, each unique view of this thread could be said to be costing the retailer $150, since it is unlikely that anyone who sees this material will order from them in the future.

     

    It ALWAYS makes sense to take care of your customers, no matter what business you're in.  Not only is it the right thing to do, it's really the only way to survive and grow in a competitive marketplace. 


    Edited by lairdangus - 8/22/13 at 12:02pm

    8/22/13 at 7:44am

    markc said:



    I'm sorry for your bad experience, and also APPLAUD your letting us know.  I really wish I saw more of these types of posts, so we all can better avoid shady sellers like this!

    8/22/13 at 8:45am

    barclaydetolly said:



    If the seller in the op's case confirmed it was vintage, that's terrible, and Ebay should absolutely refund the purchase price.   

     

    The op did exactly what he was supposed to do by asking the seller BEFORE bidding whether the photo was accurate, and depicted vintage product. 

     

    We all know that oftentimes, an Ebay seller will use an old photograph of a particular scent, and place the words "stock photo" or something like it under the photograph. That means the photograph isn't of the actual item, and was likely just taken from a random internet source. If a fragrance is reformulated, and the stock photograph depicts the older packaging, please be careful! If you're buying the fragrance because it is the older version, always send an email (like the op did) to the seller asking if the box is exactly as depicted, so you avoid any unpleasantness in the future. 

     

    I had this happen to me with Kouros -- some sellers were using stock photographs with the old packaging, and when I'd ask, they'd say that the version they had actually had the new packaging. This did not necessarily mean that the seller was trying to defraud me; some sellers are unaware of when a fragrance is reformulated (of course, when they use words like "vintage" or "original" with an inflated price, this doesn't apply). 

    8/22/13 at 12:09pm

    lairdangus said:



    It just keeps getting better!  Here is the email the "customer service" rep sent me after seeing this thread:

     

    "Dear Customer,

     

    Really for you to be an adult.  You've handle this situation very immaturely...if it was up to me we wouldn't refund you anything.  But because your still a paying customer and no matter how wrong you are we will still give you the respect enough to give you the refund..."

     

    So they lied about the product, refused to do a refund, and then stopped responding to me when I filed a complaint!  And now their customer service reps are sending me insulting emails.  LOL!!!

     

    The good news is they say they're going to issue a refund.  We'll see.  If they do, I'll let everyone know.

     

    Meanwhile, avoid this fly-by-night operation like the PLAGUE!

     

    I researched the company a bit and they appear to be some kind of Chinese grey-market importer.  

    8/22/13 at 12:18pm

    Slumberhoused said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lairdangus View Post

    It just keeps getting better!  Here is the email the "customer service" rep sent me after seeing this thread:

     

    "Dear Customer,

     

    Really for you to be an adult.  You've handle this situation very immaturely...if it was up to me we wouldn't refund you anything.  But because your still a paying customer and no matter how wrong you are we will still give you the respect enough to give you the refund..."

     

    So they lied about the product, refused to do a refund, and then stopped responding to me when I filed a complaint!  And now their customer service reps are sending me insulting emails.  LOL!!!

     

    The good news is they say they're going to issue a refund.  We'll see.  If they do, I'll let everyone know.

     

    Meanwhile, avoid this fly-by-night operation like the PLAGUE!

     

    I researched the company a bit and they appear to be some kind of Chinese grey-market importer.  

     

    I would forward that email to Ebay.  Even if they don't do anything about it, it will hopefully be 'on file' for when other people complain about them.  Surely after a certain number of complaints something is done.

     

    Thing is, you weren't wrong...at all.  The entire reason you were buying it was to have the vintage version.  And while most people would assume the photo used would be what they got unless 'stock photo' was on the description, you even went so far as to email them to make sure...AND THEY CONFIRMED IT.

     

    They are completely in the wrong, their backhanded 'customer service' is inept, thank you for posting this, and I would love to see you post your reply to their email.

     

    Needless to say, I will NEVER buy from this company, and I buy on Ebay quite often.

     

    P.S. Oh, and after you get your refund, do post them a link to this thread.

    8/22/13 at 12:25pm

    lairdangus said:



    Oh, I have already directed them to this thread!  I suspect that is why they are promising a refund now.

     

    Here was my response to their customer service rep:

     

    "I work in the customer service field, so I know a little bit about how to handle these situations.  When a company makes a mistake and the customer says what he or she wants...do it.  Don't negotiate with them, offering small discounts.  Just issue the full refund and move on. As I told you, if you had done that, I would have thanked you and posted a positive review.  Instead, you made the situation much worse.  I even told you exactly what I wanted and how I would respond--most customers wouldn't bother to do that.  They would just tell everyone they know about your poor service without giving you a fair warning.

     

    It is always good business to be honest and fair with your customers.  I hope your company learns from this and changes the way they do business."

     

     

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Slumberhoused View Post

     

    I would forward that email to Ebay.  Even if they don't do anything about it, it will hopefully be 'on file' for when other people complain about them.  Surely after a certain number of complaints something is done.

     

    Thing is, you weren't wrong...at all.  The entire reason you were buying it was to have the vintage version.  And while most people would assume the photo used would be what they got unless 'stock photo' was on the description, you even went so far as to email them to make sure...AND THEY CONFIRMED IT.

     

    They are completely in the wrong, their backhanded 'customer service' is inept, thank you for posting this, and I would love to see you post your reply to their email.

     

    Needless to say, I will NEVER buy from this company, and I buy on Ebay quite often.

     

    P.S. Oh, and after you get your refund, do post them a link to this thread.

    8/22/13 at 12:27pm

    Slumberhoused said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lairdangus View Post

    Oh, I have already directed them to this thread!  I suspect that is why they are promising a refund now.

     

    Here was my response to their customer service rep:

     

    "I work in the customer service field, so I know a little bit about how to handle these situations.  When a company makes a mistake and the customer says what he or she wants...do it.  Don't negotiate with them, offering small discounts.  Just issue the full refund and move on. As I told you, if you had done that, I would have thanked you and posted a positive review.  Instead, you made the situation much worse.  I even told you exactly what I wanted and how I would respond--most customers wouldn't bother to do that.  They would just tell everyone they know about your poor service without giving you a fair warning.

     

    It is always good business to be honest and fair with your customers.  I hope your company learns from this and changes the way they do business."

     

     

     

     

    Reading that response vs. their 'customer service' one, the whole issue of who is being mature is absolutely laughable. 

     

    Again, thanks for telling us.

    8/22/13 at 12:32pm

    barclaydetolly said:



    If the seller (1) told you in a presale email the product was pre-reformulation in the older packaging, and (2) admitted after the sale that it made a mistake and the product was different, this should be a slam-dunk refund case for paypal. Seriously, it's not even a good faith dispute.

     

    Why any seller would raise an issue over this is beyond me, nor can I fathom why any seller would send snarky emails in connection with a dispute like this. 

    8/22/13 at 12:40pm

    lairdangus said:



    At this point, it is just comical.  The latest from "customer service:"

     

    "Enough of the annoying argument...I will not tolerate your crude manners anymore.  You've already done enough with the insults and you can either stop respond or don't purchase from us anymore if you don't like our services there's plenty of others that enjoy the services."

     

    Mind you, I've actually been quite measured in my tone and responses to them, if for no other reason than I'm FLABBERGASTED by the stupidity.

     

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by barclaydetolly View Post

    If the seller (1) told you in a presale email the product was pre-reformulation in the older packaging, and (2) admitted after the sale that it made a mistake and the product was different, this should be a slam-dunk refund case for paypal. Seriously, it's not even a good faith dispute.

     

    Why any seller would raise an issue over this is beyond me, nor can I fathom why any seller would send snarky emails in connection with a dispute like this.