Newb with potentially dumb question - cooking ingredients?

    Newb with potentially dumb question - cooking ingredients?

    post #1 of 18
    Thread Starter 

    Hi all

    I want to add a stronger coconut scent to a perfume I am playing around with, but all I have is ald c-18. I could increase that I suppose...but I also have this wonderful smelling pure coconut oil I use in cooking....would this completely mess up the perfume and give it a short shelf life? This is probably a dumb question, I doubt I should use cooking ingredients in perfumery but you never know.

    post #2 of 18

    Some good base notes to go with that would be Atlas cedar or Himalayan cedar, which have a somewhat coconutty element to them.

    post #3 of 18

    If you want compose oil-based perfume, you can use yours cooking oil. Maybe it is improved with coconut aldehyde. But if you think about alcohol based, oils are undesirable. If you want natural source ingredient, look at Cryptocaria massoia bark CO2, or Palo Santo oil (Bursera graveolens), less "coconut'y" and more expensive, but more complex, intresting and thus more difficult to control.

    post #4 of 18
    Thread Starter 

    Thanks guys, I appreciate your responses!

    post #5 of 18

    Hi Waywardspirit

    As for synthetics I’m out of my comfort zone so I’ll leave that to others but on naturals I’m more at home.

    First my recommendations would be have a look at Coconut – absolute, tincture and natural, all will without doubt be useful to you but I think finding the absolute will be one heck of a challenge.

    As for the Coconut Oil I only have experience of fractionated material from my aromatherapy days which is liquid from memory and something many in aromatherapy use as a base for their blends – its stable, has a long shelf life, and I think is mostly odourless. Personally I’d be more inclined to use organic grain alcohol with the coconut materials mentioned above along with your Aldehyde C18 to create your perfume.

    With Cedarwood I personally am not sure at all, for me I think you get the best out of the Cedarwood oils mentioned when used with other woods and also with florals perhaps. Massoia Bark is indeed coconut like, think coconut ice cream, especially in its top note but it does develop greatly and I know a fair few have said to me that is has a herbal/vegetative note in its heart through to drydown. Also I think Massoia Bark is prohibited by the IFRA. One wood that maybe of some use to this project that is very sweet wood creamy and I’m sure that could help you create a Coconut masterpiece is Siam Wood - Fokiena hodginsii - when used along with the other materials.

    Anyhoo, all the best with this Waywardspirit. Adam

    post #6 of 18

    I would be very careful using an oil bases preparation in your fragrance as it could lead to all sorts of problems later. Fixed oils will often go rancid , and you will have solubility issues. If you want to boost the Coconut note in your fragrance there are other materials that you can use apart from Aldehyde C18 (gamma Nonalactone). You couldtry boosting the creamy aspect by using Acetyl Methyl Carbinol (careful, this is quite powerful), or Methyl Laitone. You could use some Coumarin, to sweeten. There is a group of chemicals called Pyrazines and many are found in Natural materials, and are often used in Flavours and Fragrances. They are very, very strong, so just a hint is enough. Many have nutty, toasted odours (e.g 2 Ethyl Pyrazine, or 2 Methoxy Pyrazine). If you can get some they are well worth it. But, I cannot emphasis enough; they are STRONG.

    post #7 of 18
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by David RuskinView Post
    Many have nutty, toasted odours (e.g 2 Ethyl Pyrazine, or 2 Methoxy Pyrazine). If you can get some they are well worth it. But, I cannot emphasis enough; they are STRONG.

    Yup, I have several Pyrazines, and it isn't uncommon for me to dilute them to 10,000% before even attempting to blend with them...

    post #8 of 18
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pkilerView Post

    Yup, I have several Pyrazines, and it isn't uncommon for me to dilute them to 10,000% before even attempting to blend with them...



    I'm afraid of pyrazines but wish I knew how to use the couple I have. I have one at 1% that smells like it almost has a chocolate almond odor, but it's also so musty. They're used to create cocoa notes, right?

    I know that a specific methoxy pyrazine is responsible for that bell pepper aroma that I love in the right sauvignon blanc, but I don't remember which.
    post #9 of 18
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by edsheppView Post
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pkilerView Post

    Yup, I have several Pyrazines, and it isn't uncommon for me to dilute them to 10,000% before even attempting to blend with them...



    I'm afraid of pyrazines but wish I knew how to use the couple I have. I have one at 1% that smells like it almost has a chocolate almond odor, but it's also so musty. They're used to create cocoa notes, right?

    I know that a specific methoxy pyrazine is responsible for that bell pepper aroma that I love in the right sauvignon blanc, but I don't remember which.

    The Bell Pepper pyrazine is 2-Methoxy-3-isoButyl Pyrazne; also found in Petitgrain and Galbanum. It is probably the most useful one to have.

    Pyrazines are used , mainly, for nutty roasted notes; some smell of Cocoa and Coffee too. Use a 0.001% solution (which may still be too strong, depends which ones you have). A little goes a very long way; but to a Perfumer, they are invaluable.

    post #10 of 18
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by David RuskinView Post

    I would be very careful using an oil bases preparation in your fragrance as it could lead to all sorts of problems later. Fixed oils will often go rancid , and you will have solubility issues. If you want to boost the Coconut note in your fragrance there are other materials that you can use apart from Aldehyde C18 (gamma Nonalactone). You couldtry boosting the creamy aspect by using Acetyl Methyl Carbinol (careful, this is quite powerful), or Methyl Laitone. You could use some Coumarin, to sweeten. There is a group of chemicals called Pyrazines and many are found in Natural materials, and are often used in Flavours and Fragrances. They are very, very strong, so just a hint is enough. Many have nutty, toasted odours (e.g 2 Ethyl Pyrazine, or 2 Methoxy Pyrazine). If you can get some they are well worth it. But, I cannot emphasis enough; they are STRONG.

    These are all good suggestions but for a beginner, I'd really recommend Methyl laitone and Coumarin and avoid the more powerful materials until you've got used to some of the easier to use ones (Methyl laitone is quite powerful, but nearly always sold pre-diluted in DPG so a bit easier to handle and not in the same league strength-wise with the pyrazines). I strongly endorse the advice not to use the cooking oil.

    You might try using some anisaldehyde to help round it out a bit too - it isn't particularly coconut on it's own but it will complement and smooth out the other scents without making it too floral. You could also use a little "Aldehyde C14"gamma-undecalactonewhich is normally used for a peach note, but also has creamy-coconut aspects and veratraldehyde could be useful too.

    post #11 of 18

    There are lots of modifiers you could use, but most are a bit obscure. Methyl Laitone is an option, coumarin (just a bit) and a very little Aldehyde C12 Lauric might al work. Fatty coconut oil is hardly mixable with alcohol, so useless.

    post #12 of 18
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by janmeutView Post

    There are lots of modifiers you could use, but most are a bit obscure. Methyl Laitone is an option, coumarin (just a bit) and a very little Aldehyde C12 Lauric might al work. Fatty coconut oil is hardly mixable with alcohol, so useless.

    Oh yes, I'd forgotten Lauric Aldehyde: also a good idea and works very nicely with anisaldehyde too.

    post #13 of 18
    Thread Starter 

    Thank you all so much for your advice :)

    post #14 of 18
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by David RuskinView Post

    The Bell Pepper pyrazine is 2-Methoxy-3-isoButyl Pyrazne; also found in Petitgrain and Galbanum. It is probably the most useful one to have.

    Oh! I hadn't ever seen that one before... Hmmm, Now how to get some...?

    post #15 of 18

    Heliotropin replacer smells like coconut scented suntan lotion to me. It has some fruity elements to it as wellbut what I smell predominantly is coconutty to be sure.

    post #16 of 18
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pkilerView Post
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by David RuskinView Post

    The Bell Pepper pyrazine is 2-Methoxy-3-isoButyl Pyrazne; also found in Petitgrain and Galbanum. It is probably the most useful one to have.

    Oh! I hadn't ever seen that one before... Hmmm, Now how to get some...?

    The one I use for the bell-pepper scent is:

    2-Isobutyl-3-methoxypyrazine

    which may or may not be the same thing (I think it is): CAS number 24683-00-9

    That is available from SAFC.

    post #17 of 18




Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000