News on Caron

    Notice about Huddler changeover here380198


    9/11/13 at 6:04am

    jblanch1 said:



    Ok, maybe not so new news (Jan 1, 13), but I thought this might be of interest to Caronistas who read French:

    http://www.challenges.fr/economie/20130108.REU4551/ales-groupe-veut-rendre-a-caron-son-luxe-exclusif.html

    The lowdown:

    60% of sales come from Pour un Homme

    75% of sales are made in France, followed by Italy, soon to be dethroned by Russia.

    The house claims *not* to follow IFRA recs. Fraysse says he would rather discontinue a perfume than butcher it.

    :lolk:

    9/11/13 at 6:44am

    Kaern said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jblanch1View Post

    The house claims *not* to follow IFRA recs. Fraysse says he would rather discontinue a perfume than butcher it.

    :lolk:

    :grin:What a joke -- Fine words, but not in reality eh?

    9/11/13 at 7:31am

    Mimi Gardenia said:



    Thanks for this jblanch1 - I fear Fraysse is purposely speaking nonsense. *lol*

    9/11/13 at 8:26am

    jblanch1 said:



    Still thinking about this. In light of the fact that Pour Homme represents the overwhelming larger part of their sales (what are the other hits here, Nocturnes?), can't we speculate that urn parfums might be a money-losing part of their business that they just keep for the prestige of the brand?

    Then, aside from Fraysse's personal inclinations--which are controversial here--perhaps the alteration of the urn parfums is as much a question of dollars than IFRA. Who knows. They do feel thinner on the drydown to me for sure.

    9/11/13 at 8:57am

    hednic said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jblanch1View Post

    Ok, maybe not so new news (Jan 1, 13), but I thought this might be of interest to Caronistas who read French:

    http://www.challenges.fr/economie/20130108.REU4551/ales-groupe-veut-rendre-a-caron-son-luxe-exclusif.html

    The lowdown:

    60% of sales come from Pour un Homme
    75% of sales are made in France, followed by Italy, soon to be dethroned by Russia.

    The house claims *not* to follow IFRA recs. Fraysse says he would rather discontinue a perfume than butcher it.

    lolk.gif
    Thank you very much for the info and link.

    9/11/13 at 10:06am

    Larimar said:



    Thanks for the link! I have the feeling that Caron is in good hands, both Alès and Fraysse. I know that's an unpopular opinion around here. I think Fraysse is speaking the truth. It is clear like crystal clear water that Tabac Blond, En Avion, Acaciosa could not follow any IFRA regulations (I have not smelled them in 2013.) the way they were loaded with carnation, rose, plenty of oakmoss, other florals. I have mentioned this in PMs several times here on BN, but dd not want to speak it out publicly in a thread. I know from Caron (2012) that it is unlikely that they will ever be able to produce another batch of Acaciosa in the future, which would be in line with what Fraysse said here.
    I have plenty of experience with older Tabac Blond, En Avion, Acaciosa from different vintages, sources. En Avion was always clearly identifiable as En Avion (even a 1930s sample), while Tabac Blond lost its hefty animalicness when they were banned. Both were slightly more chypré in style than today, too. So, none of these dreaded Fraysse reformulations in the 2000s have ever made their way to my nose (not the Perfumed Court vintage stuff, nor a BNer's decant, nor all the other sources). smile.gif

    9/11/13 at 11:33am

    jblanch1 said:



    Hey Larimar. I am very aware of your positive assessment, since I've read many of your posts on Caron--incidentally, your shared knowledge has also helped me much on the older Lanvin front, so thanks for that too!

    If I remember well, you say that Fraysse worked with Carons that had already lost certain of their former traits, including their chypré nature. So the guy has been much maligned for less than we thought. The brutal whack from LT did not help either; its amazing how so much negativity here is actually influenced, if not parroting, of "the guide." I get that.

    Tabac is instantly recognizable for sure (at least based on my vintages, not old as yours). It's just that I find them wanting at the end.
    :-)

    9/11/13 at 8:10pm

    cacio said:



    Our Larimar has come to the rescue... yet, Tabac blond has no drydown. And I mean the parfum. If F says he doesn't follow IFRA, why doesn't he just to a plain chypre drydown? And the clovey, candied base is gone from many feminines (including nuit de noel, at least in edt-I haven't smelled the current parfum). But I agree that En Avion and Acaciosa still smell rich.

    Regarding the fact that PuH is the best seller - it is indeed found everywhere in France, in various formats, sizes, and flankers. For a period, don't know if it's still true, they had a supermacho rugby star in their ads - sort of like using an NBA player here to advertise a masculine perfume. In any case, i think many will agree that it is deservedly successful and should be more successful here too.

    cacio

    9/11/13 at 8:17pm

    Mimi Gardenia said:



    Thanks so much for your comment Larimar ! :)

    I guess what I don't understand is how Caron cannot follow the IFRA ? Can someone explain this to me - I thought it would be virtually impossible these days to not follow the recommendations of the IFRA. Is Caron anIFRA member?

    9/11/13 at 8:54pm

    rubegon said:



    As I understand it, IFRA restrictions are not law - they are just guidelines that fragrance companies must follow if they are members. Maybe other follow them as well to avoid getting sued.

    There was a recent thread about this. According to Irina in that thread, the EU law mostly requires that certain allergens be disclosed on the packaging if they are present in concentrations exceeding specified levels.

    So I guess Caron could do whatever they want if they are not IFRA members. Do the packages of Tabac Blonde and En Avion list oakmoss?

    9/11/13 at 10:42pm

    Larimar said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jblanch1View Post

    Hey Larimar... your shared knowledge has also helped me much on the older Lanvin front, so thanks for that too!
    ... The brutal whack from LT did not help either; its amazing how so much negativity here is actually influenced, if not parroting, of "the guide." I get that.:-)



    Yep, jblanch1 THIS and the confusion with the EdP, in particular negative reports stateside. The EdP is really not good and this is coming from me, who adores Tabac Blond. smile.gif BTW, how do you like the Lanvin 1930s' classics? Do you find they share the same 'spirit'?

    cacio, I know you are lamenting Tabac Blond's drydown. It's not animalic anymore (for reasons mentioned), but I still get plenty clovey carnation and oakmoss. I can easily smell it after 12+ hours on my skin.

    rubegon, current Tabac Blond and En Avion do list oakmoss.

    My assumption is like rubegon that Caron is not an IFRA member. Good for them and also if they have the courage to risk consumer complaints. One Caron lady from Ave. Montaigne once said to me 'We don't have to sell.' (when discussing the exclusive fountain perfumes) Wow, that is an amazing statement these days and if it is true it is further proof that Caron is in good hands.

    9/11/13 at 11:48pm

    gandhajala said:



    Thanks for posting this interesting piece, jblanch1.

    That Caron isnot signatory to IFRA is something well worth investigating further, IMO.

    Grant- any chance you could interview Mr. Fraysse on this hotsubject?

    As an aside, I too, greatly enjoy the current Tabac Blond and En Avion extraits.

    9/11/13 at 11:55pm

    Larimar said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gandhajalaView Post

    That Caron isnot signatory to IFRA is something well worth investigating further, IMO.



    Grant- any chance you could interview Mr. Fraysse on this hotsubject?





    I agree - great proposal!

    9/12/13 at 12:53am

    donna255 said:



    Recently I bought a bottle of Fragonard's Grain de Soleil in Marks and Spencer, and there on the box quite clearly the word oakmoss!!!

    To say I was shocked was an understatement, delighted yes.

    The Carons so many have said they have changed in character.

    I will tell the story again of Guerlain and Shalimar and its change of bottle to the batwing in the early 00s. We Shalimar lovers all said something is not right. Guerlain and the SA all said no no noting changed at all. Then I happened to be at an event with Roja Dove and management to get him alone for a chat. Well more of a worship!!!!:grin: I asked about Shalimar? He told me technically Guerlain were telling the truth the same ingredients as always, BUT, they now used cheaper ingredients and that had changed the character of Shalimar.

    The companies will(well some) do their best but money will be a big factor in producing, they will cut corners.

    9/12/13 at 2:16am

    David Ruskin said:



    Oakmoss has notbeen banned. It is a restricted material and IFRA has decided the level at which it can be used in various products. It is also one of the 26 allergens which is part of the EU legislation. This states that if a potential allergen (i.e. one of the 26) is present in a cosmetic product, above a certain level in the finished product then its presence must be indicated on the package. The trouble with the IFRA legislation is that the permitted amount of Oakmoss is so small that it is impossible to have the classic Chypres anymore.

    9/12/13 at 2:55am

    donna255 said:



    The trouble was so many houses just panicked and removed the oakmoss altogether and used tree moss instead.