Artemisia abrotanum

    Artemisia abrotanum

    post #1 of 14
    Thread Starter 

    Anybody know this EO?  I see that it is mainly made in the EU, so it's out of my geography.  I see that Oshadhi amongst others sell it...

     

     

    hmmm...

    post #2 of 14

    aka Southernwood check your A. Fakhry pricelist Paul!

    post #3 of 14
    Thread Starter 

    Hi Adam, I was really more simply asking for a quick comparison for the scent profile, since I have not smelled this one before.

     

    I've been on a collecting binge of artemisia EO's over the past year or so.

    But not heard of this one 'til today.

     

    And a quick search brought up no suppliers in small qty in the USA.

     

    So, since it's an EU oil I was just kind of querying the EU crowd here on BN...   :-)

    post #4 of 14

    Paul - I'm going to send you a little Christmas present! Check your email in 5.

    post #5 of 14
    Thread Starter 

    I've seen some info that states that Artemisia Absinthum and Abrotanum are the same thing.  Can anyone confirm or deny this?

    post #6 of 14

    Paul can I ask the source that makes the claim? I have never experienced A.abrotanum aka Southernwood but have just scanned that pdf and I saw this on page 22. …According to Kelsey and Shafizadeh (1979), there are no chemical characteristics supporting the subdivision of Artemisia species into the two subgenera Abrotanum and Absinthium, since both produce eudesmanolides and guaianolides, that are identical from a qualitative point of view and are biosynthetically related. Such a statement should confirm the demonstration that the presence of hairs on the floral receptacle is an artificial character at the genus level as well as at the subtribe level and suggests that the two subgenera could be combined into one (Artemisia) as formerly proposed by Poljakov (1961b).

     

    I think the best thing to do is track a bottle down and do a comparison regardless of what is fact. With Frankincense for example the same scenario applies with B.carteri and B.sacra and in that instance no morphological differences exist. However for me there is a very distinguishable difference in aroma – with B.sacra displaying sharper, fresh-lemon qualities.

     

    On a different note congrats on 1000 posts. Adam

    post #7 of 14
    Thread Starter 

    Sorry Adam, I wans't taking notes about the sources, but I did run into this idea more than three times, that's why I came back with it for a consult with the group.



     



    Yes, One would Ideally get a bottle of both, and compare, but to this point, I have yet to find a seller of the Abrotanum in the USA, and I didn't want to spend the high shipping to the USA for a single bottle, unless it was necessary, so I simply posed the uestion if anybody knew specifics.  



     



    Maybe no one does in fact know, so in that case, I'll have to spring for the purchase... etc.



    But it never hurts to ask first...



     



    :-)



     



    Paul 


    Edited by pkiler - 9/22/13 at 3:36pm
    post #8 of 14

    Is this any help, Paul?

    http://www.plantlibra.eu/web/sites/default/files/u3/Files/ISEO2012Abstract_Sponza.pdf

     

    Fresh plant material from Abrotanum might be a little less harsh/more 'lemony', from memory, but mine has unfortunately been destroyed by large, furry feet so am currently unable to check...

    I do remember thinking that it smelled a lot nicer than the absinthum variety in the garden.

     

    http://www.mountainvalleygrowers.com/artabrotanum.htm

     

    http://www.bethchatto.co.uk/a-b/artemisia/

    post #9 of 14
    Thread Starter 
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lpp View Post
     

    Is this any help, Paul?

    http://www.plantlibra.eu/web/sites/default/files/u3/Files/ISEO2012Abstract_Sponza.pdf

     

    Fresh plant material from Abrotanum might be a little less harsh/more 'lemony', from memory, but mine has unfortunately been destroyed by large, furry feet so am currently unable to check...

    I do remember thinking that it smelled a lot nicer than the absinthum variety in the garden.

     

    http://www.mountainvalleygrowers.com/artabrotanum.htm

     

    http://www.bethchatto.co.uk/a-b/artemisia/

     

    Thanks so very much!

     
    IT seems that the Abrotanum might be a lot closer to Davana, than it is to Absinthum...
     
    It would then certainly warrant much more investigation...!
     
    :-)
     
    Thanks  LPP
    post #10 of 14

    Glad it was useful, Paul - it's my favourite one of the ones growing here for scent, lovely autumn colour too.

    Unfortunately have to admit that I don't actually know Davana....

    post #11 of 14
    Thread Starter 
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lpp View Post
     

    Glad it was useful, Paul - it's my favourite one of the ones growing here for scent, lovely autumn colour too.

    Unfortunately have to admit that I don't actually know Davana....

     

    Davana is a special natural, very unique and highly useful...

    Why don't you try it in your next order...
    post #12 of 14

    Must do that soon  -  thanks, Paul!

    post #13 of 14
    Thread Starter 

    Principal Constituents of Artemisia Abrotanum are:

     

    1,8 Cineole (Eucalyptol) at 15%-33%

     

    Camphor at 20%-44%

     

    And then the ever reclusive Agarospirol at 1% - 2%

    post #14 of 14

    Sorry to come to this so late Paul.

     

    Irrespective of the merits of classification into two species or not, I can confirm that these are certainly two quite different plants: I don't have Southernwood in my garden any more but I used to have that and two varieties of absinthium (only one of the latter now).  In olfactory terms the abrotanum is woodier and more rounded, less sharp than the absinthium.  Both are very nice.  In gardening terms southernwood is neater but bigger with finer leaves than wormwood.

     

    I don't have any oil of abrotanum but it should be quite interesting, though for a guess, not quite as unusual as davana.

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    9/17/13 at 4:37pm

    pkiler said:



    Anybody know this EO?  I see that it is mainly made in the EU, so it's out of my geography.  I see that Oshadhi amongst others sell it...

     

     

    hmmm...

    9/17/13 at 6:28pm

    Hermitage Oils said:



    aka Southernwood check your A. Fakhry pricelist Paul!

    9/17/13 at 9:40pm

    pkiler said:



    Hi Adam, I was really more simply asking for a quick comparison for the scent profile, since I have not smelled this one before.

     

    I've been on a collecting binge of artemisia EO's over the past year or so.

    But not heard of this one 'til today.

     

    And a quick search brought up no suppliers in small qty in the USA.

     

    So, since it's an EU oil I was just kind of querying the EU crowd here on BN...   :-)

    9/18/13 at 7:52am

    Hermitage Oils said:



    Paul - I'm going to send you a little Christmas present! Check your email in 5.

    9/21/13 at 6:33pm

    pkiler said:



    I've seen some info that states that Artemisia Absinthum and Abrotanum are the same thing.  Can anyone confirm or deny this?

    9/21/13 at 7:14pm

    Hermitage Oils said:



    Paul can I ask the source that makes the claim? I have never experienced A.abrotanum aka Southernwood but have just scanned that pdf and I saw this on page 22. …According to Kelsey and Shafizadeh (1979), there are no chemical characteristics supporting the subdivision of Artemisia species into the two subgenera Abrotanum and Absinthium, since both produce eudesmanolides and guaianolides, that are identical from a qualitative point of view and are biosynthetically related. Such a statement should confirm the demonstration that the presence of hairs on the floral receptacle is an artificial character at the genus level as well as at the subtribe level and suggests that the two subgenera could be combined into one (Artemisia) as formerly proposed by Poljakov (1961b).

     

    I think the best thing to do is track a bottle down and do a comparison regardless of what is fact. With Frankincense for example the same scenario applies with B.carteri and B.sacra and in that instance no morphological differences exist. However for me there is a very distinguishable difference in aroma – with B.sacra displaying sharper, fresh-lemon qualities.

     

    On a different note congrats on 1000 posts. Adam

    9/21/13 at 8:54pm

    pkiler said:



    Sorry Adam, I wans't taking notes about the sources, but I did run into this idea more than three times, that's why I came back with it for a consult with the group.



     



    Yes, One would Ideally get a bottle of both, and compare, but to this point, I have yet to find a seller of the Abrotanum in the USA, and I didn't want to spend the high shipping to the USA for a single bottle, unless it was necessary, so I simply posed the uestion if anybody knew specifics.  



     



    Maybe no one does in fact know, so in that case, I'll have to spring for the purchase... etc.



    But it never hurts to ask first...



     



    :-)



     



    Paul 


    Edited by pkiler - 9/22/13 at 3:36pm

    9/22/13 at 1:51am

    lpp said:



    Is this any help, Paul?

    http://www.plantlibra.eu/web/sites/default/files/u3/Files/ISEO2012Abstract_Sponza.pdf

     

    Fresh plant material from Abrotanum might be a little less harsh/more 'lemony', from memory, but mine has unfortunately been destroyed by large, furry feet so am currently unable to check...

    I do remember thinking that it smelled a lot nicer than the absinthum variety in the garden.

     

    http://www.mountainvalleygrowers.com/artabrotanum.htm

     

    http://www.bethchatto.co.uk/a-b/artemisia/

    9/22/13 at 10:21am

    pkiler said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lpp View Post
     

    Is this any help, Paul?

    http://www.plantlibra.eu/web/sites/default/files/u3/Files/ISEO2012Abstract_Sponza.pdf

     

    Fresh plant material from Abrotanum might be a little less harsh/more 'lemony', from memory, but mine has unfortunately been destroyed by large, furry feet so am currently unable to check...

    I do remember thinking that it smelled a lot nicer than the absinthum variety in the garden.

     

    http://www.mountainvalleygrowers.com/artabrotanum.htm

     

    http://www.bethchatto.co.uk/a-b/artemisia/

     

    Thanks so very much!

     
    IT seems that the Abrotanum might be a lot closer to Davana, than it is to Absinthum...
     
    It would then certainly warrant much more investigation...!
     
    :-)
     
    Thanks  LPP

    9/22/13 at 10:49am

    lpp said:



    Glad it was useful, Paul - it's my favourite one of the ones growing here for scent, lovely autumn colour too.

    Unfortunately have to admit that I don't actually know Davana....

    9/22/13 at 10:53am

    pkiler said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lpp View Post
     

    Glad it was useful, Paul - it's my favourite one of the ones growing here for scent, lovely autumn colour too.

    Unfortunately have to admit that I don't actually know Davana....

     

    Davana is a special natural, very unique and highly useful...

    Why don't you try it in your next order...

    9/22/13 at 11:38am

    lpp said:



    Must do that soon  -  thanks, Paul!

    9/22/13 at 10:48pm

    pkiler said:



    Principal Constituents of Artemisia Abrotanum are:

     

    1,8 Cineole (Eucalyptol) at 15%-33%

     

    Camphor at 20%-44%

     

    And then the ever reclusive Agarospirol at 1% - 2%

    9/24/13 at 10:06am

    Chris Bartlett said:



    Sorry to come to this so late Paul.

     

    Irrespective of the merits of classification into two species or not, I can confirm that these are certainly two quite different plants: I don't have Southernwood in my garden any more but I used to have that and two varieties of absinthium (only one of the latter now).  In olfactory terms the abrotanum is woodier and more rounded, less sharp than the absinthium.  Both are very nice.  In gardening terms southernwood is neater but bigger with finer leaves than wormwood.

     

    I don't have any oil of abrotanum but it should be quite interesting, though for a guess, not quite as unusual as davana.