Honey note in Indochine by Parfumerie Generale

    Honey note in Indochine by Parfumerie Generale

    post #1 of 9
    Thread Starter 

    Hi, I'm new here and enjoyed to join this forum.

     

    First of all, I must say my english is just... terrible so I hope you'll understand me. I'll try to do my best.

     

    Well I would like to make a perfume. I'm in love with Indochine by Parfumerie Generale and would like to try to "copy" this.

     

    Here are the notes : http://www.fragrantica.com/perfume/Parfumerie-Generale/No-25-Indochine-13183.html

     

    I ordered natural ingredients : benzoin, beeswax absolute, "honey fragrance", sandalwood, black pepper and cardamom. The mix is a disaster. I was hoping for something sweet & smooth. This is not sweet at all, I add vanillin to it, but it doesn't work. The beeswax absolute and the "honey fragrance" doesn't smell honey but very animalic and dirty.

     

    Do you know this perfume (Indochine) ? What kind of natural and synthetic ingredients should I use to make a real comfortable honeyed fragrance ?

     

    Secondly I ordered quality Sandalwood from Sri Lanka (Santalum Album) from a great seller, but I don't smell the sandalwood I expected. This is very dry, like cedar, a tiny bit green, a tiny bit spicy. There isn't any milkyness. I diluted pure essential oil in 10% in DPG and the smell is veeeery light. Low sillage and longevity. What's wrong with it ? Should I use synthetic ingredients to make it more powerfull ?

     

    Thanks.


    Edited by Encens - 9/26/13 at 1:12pm
    post #2 of 9

    Hi Encens, I find that Cassia EO has a strong aroma of honey. If you can afford it then there's also Honey absolute.

     

    http://www.hermitageoils.com/honey-absolute

    http://www.hermitageoils.com/honey-lavender-absolute

    post #3 of 9
    Thread Starter 

    Pears, thanks for your advice ! Cassie EO sounds great. Honey absolute too but I already spent more than 250 dollars in natural ingredients, bottles, and other stuffs. I wouldn't like to spend so much money for now. Natural ingredients gave me a lesson : chemicals are essentials (and cheaper) to compose a perfume.

     

    I heard about Phenylacetic acid, ethyl cinnamate & homofuronol. Did you try thoses ? I could maybe add a tiny bit of beeswax absolute to make it more "real".

    post #4 of 9

    Mixing and blending, and the finding of the right ingredients is not something you'll be able to do quickly to duplicate this scent.  (what's wrong with buying it if you like it?)

     

    You can try those aromatics with phenyl in their name for a honey layered note.

     

    Sandalwood is tough, it takes lots of getting samples to find a good one.  Sandalwood oils come out all over the place.

    post #5 of 9
    Thread Starter 

    Sure pkiler. Thank you for your answer. I never said copying a perfume is something fast and easy. I don't expect an exact copy at all. It's impossible for the noob I am. Indochine is just an example of the honeyed note I tend to approach.

    I don't buy it cause I would like to change some things in it. To make it a bit different.

     

    So sad for my sandalwood. It cost me very expensive. I know that creating a perfume is an investisment, but I would like to don't make too much mistakes. Cause finally, am I looking for a natural sandalwood or a chemical that smells so much stronger ? The sandalwood I possess is maybe not so bad but just not what I was expecting for. I mean it could be useless to spend much more in expensive natural sandalwood if what I'm searching is an aromachemical.

     

    15 days ago I tried a "Sandalwood base" in a shop that proposes to create customised fragrances for an expensive price. I went back home with a paper perfumed with this base. Today the smell is still on ! And much more powerfull than my essential oil.

     

    So I wonder if it was entirely natural to have a such impressive longevity. Is it possible for an EO ?


    Edited by Encens - 9/26/13 at 1:10pm
    post #6 of 9

    A Sandalwood base such as this is is a synthetic base.

    Using real sandalwood is prohibitivel;y expensive for the general store to offer.

     

    You should certainly try Sandalrome, Ebanol, and Javanol to accomplish a sandalwood accord, or just buy one from Perfumer's Apprentice.

    post #7 of 9
    Thread Starter 

    You are right. And this is what I tought.

     

    So I'll use synthetic. What do you think about the sandalwood accord of Perfumer's Apprentice ? I red it smells a bit plastic. Should I compose my own accord without some ingredients ? If you wanted to create a synthetic sandalwood, what would you use ?

    post #8 of 9

    Hey Encens, I wasn't talking about Cassie but Cassia. Cassia EO is cheap and in the same price range as many synthetics. However, it contains cinnamaldehyde which is a weak skin sensitiser, so it should be used in moderation. I think that Phenyl Ethyl Phenylacetate also has a honey note, along with Phenyl acetic Acid.

    post #9 of 9
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Encens View Post
     

    You are right. And this is what I tought.

     

    So I'll use synthetic. What do you think about the sandalwood accord of Perfumer's Apprentice ? I red it smells a bit plastic. Should I compose my own accord without some ingredients ? If you wanted to create a synthetic sandalwood, what would you use ?

     

    If you want a nature identical scent, then work out your own reformulation, or buy the New Directions Nature Identical.

     

    Or not worry about being nature identical, and do what I've already told you to do, use the Sandalrome, Ebanol and Javanol.

    You can make a blend that works as "sandalwood" when it's buried in a fragrance...  So unless you want a solo sandalwood fragrance, get over the need to make everything exactly as found in nature, and THEN blend it all together.

     

    In many cases, close enough is just fine.

     

    Aromachemicals are very fine shades of a painting.  Naturals get there faster, because you're throwing a lot more "pigments" at it.   But getting just close to the sandalwood odor profile without it being a natural match may be more than enough, if you're going to pile in on top of it, more colors of other notes from other materials  to create a whole basenote structure.

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    9/26/13 at 10:11am

    Encens said:



    Hi, I'm new here and enjoyed to join this forum.

     

    First of all, I must say my english is just... terrible so I hope you'll understand me. I'll try to do my best.

     

    Well I would like to make a perfume. I'm in love with Indochine by Parfumerie Generale and would like to try to "copy" this.

     

    Here are the notes : http://www.fragrantica.com/perfume/Parfumerie-Generale/No-25-Indochine-13183.html

     

    I ordered natural ingredients : benzoin, beeswax absolute, "honey fragrance", sandalwood, black pepper and cardamom. The mix is a disaster. I was hoping for something sweet & smooth. This is not sweet at all, I add vanillin to it, but it doesn't work. The beeswax absolute and the "honey fragrance" doesn't smell honey but very animalic and dirty.

     

    Do you know this perfume (Indochine) ? What kind of natural and synthetic ingredients should I use to make a real comfortable honeyed fragrance ?

     

    Secondly I ordered quality Sandalwood from Sri Lanka (Santalum Album) from a great seller, but I don't smell the sandalwood I expected. This is very dry, like cedar, a tiny bit green, a tiny bit spicy. There isn't any milkyness. I diluted pure essential oil in 10% in DPG and the smell is veeeery light. Low sillage and longevity. What's wrong with it ? Should I use synthetic ingredients to make it more powerfull ?

     

    Thanks.


    Edited by Encens - 9/26/13 at 1:12pm

    9/26/13 at 11:19am

    Pears said:



    Hi Encens, I find that Cassia EO has a strong aroma of honey. If you can afford it then there's also Honey absolute.

     

    http://www.hermitageoils.com/honey-absolute

    http://www.hermitageoils.com/honey-lavender-absolute

    9/26/13 at 12:02pm

    Encens said:



    Pears, thanks for your advice ! Cassie EO sounds great. Honey absolute too but I already spent more than 250 dollars in natural ingredients, bottles, and other stuffs. I wouldn't like to spend so much money for now. Natural ingredients gave me a lesson : chemicals are essentials (and cheaper) to compose a perfume.

     

    I heard about Phenylacetic acid, ethyl cinnamate & homofuronol. Did you try thoses ? I could maybe add a tiny bit of beeswax absolute to make it more "real".

    9/26/13 at 12:09pm

    pkiler said:



    Mixing and blending, and the finding of the right ingredients is not something you'll be able to do quickly to duplicate this scent.  (what's wrong with buying it if you like it?)

     

    You can try those aromatics with phenyl in their name for a honey layered note.

     

    Sandalwood is tough, it takes lots of getting samples to find a good one.  Sandalwood oils come out all over the place.

    9/26/13 at 12:53pm

    Encens said:



    Sure pkiler. Thank you for your answer. I never said copying a perfume is something fast and easy. I don't expect an exact copy at all. It's impossible for the noob I am. Indochine is just an example of the honeyed note I tend to approach.

    I don't buy it cause I would like to change some things in it. To make it a bit different.

     

    So sad for my sandalwood. It cost me very expensive. I know that creating a perfume is an investisment, but I would like to don't make too much mistakes. Cause finally, am I looking for a natural sandalwood or a chemical that smells so much stronger ? The sandalwood I possess is maybe not so bad but just not what I was expecting for. I mean it could be useless to spend much more in expensive natural sandalwood if what I'm searching is an aromachemical.

     

    15 days ago I tried a "Sandalwood base" in a shop that proposes to create customised fragrances for an expensive price. I went back home with a paper perfumed with this base. Today the smell is still on ! And much more powerfull than my essential oil.

     

    So I wonder if it was entirely natural to have a such impressive longevity. Is it possible for an EO ?


    Edited by Encens - 9/26/13 at 1:10pm

    9/26/13 at 1:32pm

    pkiler said:



    A Sandalwood base such as this is is a synthetic base.

    Using real sandalwood is prohibitivel;y expensive for the general store to offer.

     

    You should certainly try Sandalrome, Ebanol, and Javanol to accomplish a sandalwood accord, or just buy one from Perfumer's Apprentice.

    9/26/13 at 1:40pm

    Encens said:



    You are right. And this is what I tought.

     

    So I'll use synthetic. What do you think about the sandalwood accord of Perfumer's Apprentice ? I red it smells a bit plastic. Should I compose my own accord without some ingredients ? If you wanted to create a synthetic sandalwood, what would you use ?

    9/26/13 at 4:50pm

    Pears said:



    Hey Encens, I wasn't talking about Cassie but Cassia. Cassia EO is cheap and in the same price range as many synthetics. However, it contains cinnamaldehyde which is a weak skin sensitiser, so it should be used in moderation. I think that Phenyl Ethyl Phenylacetate also has a honey note, along with Phenyl acetic Acid.

    9/26/13 at 4:51pm

    pkiler said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Encens View Post
     

    You are right. And this is what I tought.

     

    So I'll use synthetic. What do you think about the sandalwood accord of Perfumer's Apprentice ? I red it smells a bit plastic. Should I compose my own accord without some ingredients ? If you wanted to create a synthetic sandalwood, what would you use ?

     

    If you want a nature identical scent, then work out your own reformulation, or buy the New Directions Nature Identical.

     

    Or not worry about being nature identical, and do what I've already told you to do, use the Sandalrome, Ebanol and Javanol.

    You can make a blend that works as "sandalwood" when it's buried in a fragrance...  So unless you want a solo sandalwood fragrance, get over the need to make everything exactly as found in nature, and THEN blend it all together.

     

    In many cases, close enough is just fine.

     

    Aromachemicals are very fine shades of a painting.  Naturals get there faster, because you're throwing a lot more "pigments" at it.   But getting just close to the sandalwood odor profile without it being a natural match may be more than enough, if you're going to pile in on top of it, more colors of other notes from other materials  to create a whole basenote structure.