I will never buy vintage again

    Notice about Huddler changeover here381160


    9/29/13 at 9:19pm

    maleficent09 said:



    I've been constantly reading reviews and posts etc, and I keep hearing about how vintage is better, etc, and the dreaded R-word, reformulation. I have even read comments of people in here whining about fragrances that are not even 10 years old already being reformulated. How do they know I have no idea, it seems most people around here has bionic noses.

     

    I still wanted to try vintage versions of some of my favorites, so I bought from ebay vintage eau de colognes of chanel no 5, no 19 and no 22, all from different sellers, all in mint, unopened condition. I opened the three of them and while they did smell different to their modern counterparts, it was also pretty obvious that all three were totally rancid. And how can they not be? They are almost 40 years old, when a perfume of the best quality has a shelf-life of barely 5 years under the best conditions.

     

    I think I have been led by commentators in here but I think they don't even know what they are talking about or what they want. I read the other day on this very forum looking for information on chanel's Une Fleur and one poster said that it only takes for a perfume to be rare and discontinued for her to doll out several hundred dollars, nevermind if the perfume in question was actually good in the first place.

     

    I'm sure many will lambast me and disagree, but buying vintage is a waste. NOTHING can stand the changes of time unless they are in a sealed, oxygen free temperature controlled container. The second it's opened, the second it comes in contact with oxygen, oxidation begins, in other words, aging. You can keep it cool, closed, out of light, NO PERFUME is EVER GOING TO REMAIN UNDAMAGED if it's older than 10 years, period, unless it's in an Osmotheque, and you should see the freezing conditions under which they are kept.

     

    So I've learned my lesson, no more vintage for me ever again, and you need to face the truth: ONCE A PERFUME IS REFORMULATED, IT IS LOST FOREVER.

    9/29/13 at 9:42pm

    cacio said:



    Welcome!

     

    Unfortunately, buying vintage is always risky, because one never knows the status of the perfume. Light especially can be a big problem. if the bottle's been out in sunlight, chances are it's gone.

     

    Still, perhaps I was lucky, but most of the things I have bought are acceptable. I'd say no more than 10% of my purchases were totally gone (or fake, or diluted). Some others probably lost their top notes, with a few developing some off notes up top. In some cases, though, the off note is only in the top, if one sticks around for half an hour, the heart and especially the base is still in a good state. And in most cases, the difference between vintage and modern is in the base - these are the materials that have been restricted or are no longer available.

     

    How is the base for your chanels? Aldehydes are top notes that can turn easily, and both no 5 and no 22 are aldehydic bombs. I have an old No 5 parfum whose top has turned, it has some a sort of musty top off note, but the base is gorgeously musky, in a way the current parfum is not.

     

    No 19 vintage should have a dark ambery leathery base, again missing from the current greener and lighter modern version.

     

    In any case, the uncertainty about the status of a perfume (together with the possibility of fakes) is a reason why I decided never to bid too much on a perfume. this of course means that I am pretty much excluded from most Chanels, Guerlains, and Diors, whose prices regularly go above $100.

     

    cacio

    9/29/13 at 9:54pm

    maleficent09 said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cacio View Post
     

    Welcome!

     

    Unfortunately, buying vintage is always risky, because one never knows the status of the perfume. Light especially can be a big problem. if the bottle's been out in sunlight, chances are it's gone.

     

    Still, perhaps I was lucky, but most of the things I have bought are acceptable. I'd say no more than 10% of my purchases were totally gone (or fake, or diluted). Some others probably lost their top notes, with a few developing some off notes up top. In some cases, though, the off note is only in the top, if one sticks around for half an hour, the heart and especially the base is still in a good state. And in most cases, the difference between vintage and modern is in the base - these are the materials that have been restricted or are no longer available.

     

    How is the base for your chanels? Aldehydes are top notes that can turn easily, and both no 5 and no 22 are aldehydic bombs. I have an old No 5 parfum whose top has turned, it has some a sort of musty top off note, but the base is gorgeously musky, in a way the current parfum is not.

     

    No 19 vintage should have a dark ambery leathery base, again missing from the current greener and lighter modern version.

     

    In any case, the uncertainty about the status of a perfume (together with the possibility of fakes) is a reason why I decided never to bid too much on a perfume. this of course means that I am pretty much excluded from most Chanels, Guerlains, and Diors, whose prices regularly go above $100.

     

    cacio

     

     

    You still have no way of being sure those base notes aren't turned. Like I said, the shelf-life of perfume is at the most 5 years. They are all damaged, or turned in some way over that period of time. The only exception is when you have perfume that is SEALED, with the plastic wrap still intact, that isn't more than 10 or 20 years old. But if there is no wrapper, forget it, it's totally damaged and rancid.

    9/29/13 at 10:05pm

    maleficent09 said:



    I also know I'm right because I bought Dior's Tendre Poison, without every knowing the fragrance, and it came with it's plastic wrapper sealed and it smelled divine. I gave away the bottle foolishly thinking I'd just buy more, and I've bought 4 bottles that unfortunately have all come without the plastic wrapper and they are all rancid. Now I'm sure you're wondering how I know the first fragrance was ok when I never wore Tendre Poison in the first place, but that reminds me of what Chandler Burr said in an interview, that people's capacity for noticing an off smell is remarkable and that people can notice something smells bad or rancid even if they've never smelled it before.

     

    I had never tried Tendre Poison when it was around but I know the last 4 bottles are all rancid, the one with the sealed wrapper was the true scent and that's just the way it is. For a perfume to be good it has to be SEALED, of course vintage perfume were never sealed in plastic wrap so there is even less chance of them being undamaged or not rancid. It truly is a waste of money and I can't believe that so many people just take out big dough for vintage and are satisfied with them, no way they are in good condition, no way, it is NOT physically possible. The components and oils break down, it's impossible to avoid.

    9/29/13 at 10:05pm

    cacio said:



    9/29/13 at 10:06pm

    30 Roses said:



    OP,

    Since you feel so strongly about it, it is undoubtedly a good idea for you to avoid vintage scents.  But you will find that many members here disagree that perfumes are "damaged and rancid" after 5 years.  I have a number of fragrances older than that which smell wonderful.

     

    However, it is true that some perfumes "turn" over time, and even some fragrances that are still sealed in their original plastic wrap have turned.  (Perhaps they were not stored in cool conditions; the culprit could not have been light).  I bought 2 such sealed boxes on eBay (both the same scent, Laura Ashley No. 1) ) and both had lost their lovely top notes.  Even so, after the first 10 minutes, they smell just as I remember the scent to be.

    9/29/13 at 10:37pm

    maleficent09 said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cacio View Post
     

    Why am I thinking about this?

     

    http://www.basenotes.net/t/380644/perfumer-says-vintage-is-basically-waste-of

     

    cacio

    I had never read that article but he is absolutely right. All vintage perfumes are damaged. I also know the oxygen principle to be true because I used to collect comics, and of course they would damage and look very old, mere months after buying them. Then I was in class one day and a teacher was speaking about guns, and he said that he once met someone who had a 20+ year old gun in perfect mint condition, and my teacher thought he cleaned it all the time but he didn't, he simply stored it in a sealed plastic bag when not in use. And he told us to try it, so I did and I put all my comics in plastic bags and sealed them with masking tape and it literally stopped the aging of the paper on its track. It's the oxygen, it ruins things. And paper and metal are more resisting to time and they still get old quickly if not properly stored, now imaging perfume from 20, 30 or 40 years back.

     

    And it doesn't cut it to have them in a box if the box is exposed to air. Even if sealed, I don't think it can do much because one of the eau de colognes I got was sealed with the metal cap and the cork cap underneath it, totally sealed and when I opened it, the metal was old and the cork was decomposing I guess. And I don't know how to explain oxygen getting past a plastic cap but it does, it really does. So, yeah it is a waste to buy vintage.

    9/29/13 at 10:44pm

    maleficent09 said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 30 Roses View Post
     

    OP,

    Since you feel so strongly about it, it is undoubtedly a good idea for you to avoid vintage scents.  But you will find that many members here disagree that perfumes are "damaged and rancid" after 5 years.  I have a number of fragrances older than that which smell wonderful.

     

    However, it is true that some perfumes "turn" over time, and even some fragrances that are still sealed in their original plastic wrap have turned.  (Perhaps they were not stored in cool conditions; the culprit could not have been light).  I bought 2 such sealed boxes on eBay (both the same scent, Laura Ashley No. 1) ) and both had lost their lovely top notes.  Even so, after the first 10 minutes, they smell just as I remember the scent to be.

    But how do you really know? Also, how do you know that some of those components haven't been degraded and become something toxic? even if the smell is fine? It could even be toxic to wear vintage perfume, have you ever considered that?

    9/29/13 at 10:57pm

    30 Roses said:



    I've worn some of these for years and am familiar with how they are supposed to smell, that is how I know!  And that is good enough for me.

     

    There are enough things to worry about without adding to that a worry that my favorite perfumes are toxic to whatever small degree, especially as there is no evidence that they are.  I expect the little bit of ice cream I ate tonight did more harm than my perfume.  In any case, I'm 57 and do not expect to live forever; I don't plan to avoid the enjoyment of simple things that give me great pleasure.

     

    Having said that, we all need to know ourselves.  If wearing any but the freshest perfume makes you anxious, by all means don't wear it.

    9/30/13 at 12:59am

    donna255 said:



    Some years less than 5 I managed to get a bottle of 1960 Caron Fleurs de Rocaille extract very cheaply on ebay.    In original box still had the gold wire on the neck unopened.   The top notes for sure are faint but the heart and base develop beautifully.

     

    Also a bottle of No22 edt, which I thought was early 00s when I bought but turned out to be 80s.   It is a total powerhouse and not rancid in anyway.   It was a the manager of my local Chanel counter who told me how old it actually was and how amazing it smelt.

     

    Buying vintage is very very very hit and miss(usually the latter), its up to the individual to decide whether want to chance it and go the route of vintage.

     

    It didn't work for you, but it has for others.   You can rant about how useless buying vintage is, but its up to others what they want to buy.   Telling us ITS TOXIC!!!!   Makes no difference, we are adults and can wear what we want.

    9/30/13 at 1:54am

    maleficent09 said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by donna255 View Post
     

    Some years less than 5 I managed to get a bottle of 1960 Caron Fleurs de Rocaille extract very cheaply on ebay.    In original box still had the gold wire on the neck unopened.   The top notes for sure are faint but the heart and base develop beautifully.

     

    Also a bottle of No22 edt, which I thought was early 00s when I bought but turned out to be 80s.   It is a total powerhouse and not rancid in anyway.   It was a the manager of my local Chanel counter who told me how old it actually was and how amazing it smelt.

     

    Buying vintage is very very very hit and miss(usually the latter), its up to the individual to decide whether want to chance it and go the route of vintage.

     

    It didn't work for you, but it has for others.   You can rant about how useless buying vintage is, but its up to others what they want to buy.   Telling us ITS TOXIC!!!!   Makes no difference, we are adults and can wear what we want.

     

     

    It's still a waste of money. I've realized there is a lot of self-delusion in this community so I choose not to believe you and go with the scientific facts, no liquid, specially one that has OILS, which have acids and organic material, will ever sustain 20, 30 or 60 years without decomposing, there is just no way possible. You may delude yourself to think that it is better, but it is not, it's most definitely damaged. Also, smelling "stronger" is also a result of having turned bad. Again, self-delusion. I'm glad I snapped out of it and now know the truth.

    9/30/13 at 2:22am

    pluran said:



    Give it a rest. You don't know your ass from third base.

    9/30/13 at 2:24am

    David Ruskin said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by maleficent09 View Post
     

     

     

    It's still a waste of money. I've realized there is a lot of self-delusion in this community so I choose not to believe you and go with the scientific facts, no liquid, specially one that has OILS, which have acids and organic material, will ever sustain 20, 30 or 60 years without decomposing, there is just no way possible. You may delude yourself to think that it is better, but it is not, it's most definitely damaged. Also, smelling "stronger" is also a result of having turned bad. Again, self-delusion. I'm glad I snapped out of it and now know the truth.

     

    Then don't do it!   The whole point of wearing Fragarnce is to enjoy the sensation.   If you are not enjoying a particular Fragrance, for whatever reason, then don't wear it.   However, I think it a little unreasonable for you to expect everyone to agree with you.   I have Fragrances that are way over ten years old, and whilst the Top note is showing signs of age, the rest of the Fragrance is fine, and I enjoy them.   Do what you want to do, but allow others to do the same.  

    9/30/13 at 2:28am

    maleficent09 said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pluran View Post
     

    Give it a rest. You don't know your ass from third base.

    you don't know that.

    9/30/13 at 2:29am

    maleficent09 said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
     

     

    Then don't do it!   The whole point of wearing Fragarnce is to enjoy the sensation.   If you are not enjoying a particular Fragrance, for whatever reason, then don't wear it.   However, I think it a little unreasonable for you to expect everyone to agree with you.   I have Fragrances that are way over ten years old, and whilst the Top note is showing signs of age, the rest of the Fragrance is fine, and I enjoy them.   Do what you want to do, but allow others to do the same.  

    Am I stopping anyone from buying rancid vintage?? no. I'm just stating the obvious, all vintage perfume is rancid.

    9/30/13 at 2:32am

    lpp said:



    Please could some of us familiarise ourselves with the Code of Conduct before continuing.

     

    http://www.basenotes.net/a/code-of-conduct-for-basenotes-community-forums