Aldehyde C8 /C9

    Aldehyde C8 /C9

    post #1 of 8
    Thread Starter 

    Is Aldehyde C8 identical to C9 or my supplier made a mistake?

    I seriously cannot find any difference. 

     

    Also it smells is so weird. At which type of perfumes are they used?

    post #2 of 8

    Aldehyde C8 - Octanal and 

    Aldehyde C9 - nonanal 

     

    are most certainly not the same, but they do have quite similar olfactory characteristics.  If you are sniffing them neat from the bottle you may well struggle to tell them apart.

     

    I would recommend reducing them to a 1% solution for evaluation.

     

    Both are used in aldehydic perfumes and for citrus notes (natural citrus oils contain both, though both also occur in a range of other natural materials).

    post #3 of 8
    Thread Starter 

    I'll try them at 1% then. 

    Can you recall any known fragrance that has c8/c9?

     

    *By the way I received your fragrances. Very good work and well balanced. Liked the one with the clove twist and the oud one

    post #4 of 8

    Chris is right about diluting Aldehydes for evaluation.   They are too strong to evaluate at 100.0%   Aldehyde C8 is (to me) a part of Tangerine, and possibly Orange,  oils.   ALdehyde C9 is slightly less fatty, slightly sharper, slightly less Green.   If you were then to smell Aldehyde C10, you would find it even more Citrus, more Lemon like.

    post #5 of 8
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nicok View Post
     

    I'll try them at 1% then. 

    Can you recall any known fragrance that has c8/c9?

     

    *By the way I received your fragrances. Very good work and well balanced. Liked the one with the clove twist and the oud one

     

    I can't honestly think of a finished fragrance with a prominent note of either C8 or C9.  The acme of aldehydic fragrances - Chanel Number 5 - uses C10, C11 and MNA in heavy doses.

     

    To be honest I don't find a lot of use for the lower numbered aldehydes except as a citrus booster, and even then, as David says, C10 gives a clearer citrus note.

     

    Thanks for the kind remarks on my work by the way - is that Green Carnation and Anjin you're referring to?

    post #6 of 8
    Thread Starter 

    I tried them diluted next to an orange base, and I think they are important for the 'bright' effect they give to the rest of the perfume than to their smells themselves. 

     

    Yes the one was Anjin. Clove is there like a whisper, so nice play with the other notes. 

    The other was sticky leather skies. I got a lot agarwood in this one and it is very fresh. Very nice and very different style compared to the others

    post #7 of 8
    Thread Starter 

    Also as I will have them diluted at 1% for smelling, do you think a solution 50% in ethanol will be enough to preserve them from going oxidized? (I don't have unlimited access to ethanol where I live)

    post #8 of 8
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nicok View Post
     

    I tried them diluted next to an orange base, and I think they are important for the 'bright' effect they give to the rest of the perfume than to their smells themselves. 

     

    Yes the one was Anjin. Clove is there like a whisper, so nice play with the other notes. 

    The other was sticky leather skies. I got a lot agarwood in this one and it is very fresh. Very nice and very different style compared to the others

     

    Anjin has just a touch of clove, plus some allspice absolute: well spotted!

     

    I'm pleased you liked Sticky Leather Sky and interested that you find oud in it - there is none in the formula but I know what you mean about the note - which I think is a result of heavy use of benzyl salicylate along with both safraleine and suederal.  The fresh-damp-air notes are meant to invoke some of the images from the poem that inspired it: I'm not aware of anyone else combining those with heavy leather notes.  To be honest I didn't really expect this one to be commercially successful - I just did it as part of the Penning Perfumes project for the art.

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nicok View Post
     

    Also as I will have them diluted at 1% for smelling, do you think a solution 50% in ethanol will be enough to preserve them from going oxidized? (I don't have unlimited access to ethanol where I live)

     

    50% should do the job for storage, yes.  You might add just a little BHT to prevent oxidising too though it probably isn't necessary unless you're going to keep them a long time.

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    10/8/13 at 6:10am

    nicok said:



    Is Aldehyde C8 identical to C9 or my supplier made a mistake?

    I seriously cannot find any difference. 

     

    Also it smells is so weird. At which type of perfumes are they used?

    10/8/13 at 6:26am

    Chris Bartlett said:



    Aldehyde C8 - Octanal and 

    Aldehyde C9 - nonanal 

     

    are most certainly not the same, but they do have quite similar olfactory characteristics.  If you are sniffing them neat from the bottle you may well struggle to tell them apart.

     

    I would recommend reducing them to a 1% solution for evaluation.

     

    Both are used in aldehydic perfumes and for citrus notes (natural citrus oils contain both, though both also occur in a range of other natural materials).

    10/8/13 at 6:37am

    nicok said:



    I'll try them at 1% then. 

    Can you recall any known fragrance that has c8/c9?

     

    *By the way I received your fragrances. Very good work and well balanced. Liked the one with the clove twist and the oud one

    10/9/13 at 1:38am

    David Ruskin said:



    Chris is right about diluting Aldehydes for evaluation.   They are too strong to evaluate at 100.0%   Aldehyde C8 is (to me) a part of Tangerine, and possibly Orange,  oils.   ALdehyde C9 is slightly less fatty, slightly sharper, slightly less Green.   If you were then to smell Aldehyde C10, you would find it even more Citrus, more Lemon like.

    10/9/13 at 1:55am

    Chris Bartlett said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nicok View Post
     

    I'll try them at 1% then. 

    Can you recall any known fragrance that has c8/c9?

     

    *By the way I received your fragrances. Very good work and well balanced. Liked the one with the clove twist and the oud one

     

    I can't honestly think of a finished fragrance with a prominent note of either C8 or C9.  The acme of aldehydic fragrances - Chanel Number 5 - uses C10, C11 and MNA in heavy doses.

     

    To be honest I don't find a lot of use for the lower numbered aldehydes except as a citrus booster, and even then, as David says, C10 gives a clearer citrus note.

     

    Thanks for the kind remarks on my work by the way - is that Green Carnation and Anjin you're referring to?

    10/9/13 at 2:42am

    nicok said:



    I tried them diluted next to an orange base, and I think they are important for the 'bright' effect they give to the rest of the perfume than to their smells themselves. 

     

    Yes the one was Anjin. Clove is there like a whisper, so nice play with the other notes. 

    The other was sticky leather skies. I got a lot agarwood in this one and it is very fresh. Very nice and very different style compared to the others

    10/9/13 at 2:58am

    nicok said:



    Also as I will have them diluted at 1% for smelling, do you think a solution 50% in ethanol will be enough to preserve them from going oxidized? (I don't have unlimited access to ethanol where I live)

    10/9/13 at 3:58am

    Chris Bartlett said:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nicok View Post
     

    I tried them diluted next to an orange base, and I think they are important for the 'bright' effect they give to the rest of the perfume than to their smells themselves. 

     

    Yes the one was Anjin. Clove is there like a whisper, so nice play with the other notes. 

    The other was sticky leather skies. I got a lot agarwood in this one and it is very fresh. Very nice and very different style compared to the others

     

    Anjin has just a touch of clove, plus some allspice absolute: well spotted!

     

    I'm pleased you liked Sticky Leather Sky and interested that you find oud in it - there is none in the formula but I know what you mean about the note - which I think is a result of heavy use of benzyl salicylate along with both safraleine and suederal.  The fresh-damp-air notes are meant to invoke some of the images from the poem that inspired it: I'm not aware of anyone else combining those with heavy leather notes.  To be honest I didn't really expect this one to be commercially successful - I just did it as part of the Penning Perfumes project for the art.

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nicok View Post
     

    Also as I will have them diluted at 1% for smelling, do you think a solution 50% in ethanol will be enough to preserve them from going oxidized? (I don't have unlimited access to ethanol where I live)

     

    50% should do the job for storage, yes.  You might add just a little BHT to prevent oxidising too though it probably isn't necessary unless you're going to keep them a long time.