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  1. Replies
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    Re: diethyl- acetal Hydroxycitronellal

    Thanks I will be ordering today! For everyone's eduction, how does it smell compared to the regular Hydroxycitronellal?
  2. Thread: Butyric Acid

    by gecko214
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    Re: Butyric Acid

    Paul proxisante carries it in small quantities and it is not expensive.
  3. Re: What notes do you get from Johnson's Baby Oil?

    I think geranium (or geraniol) may be involved.
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    Re: Help with victorian perfume

    Read the stickies before you do anything. FOs will likely not replicate anything close to this formula and using all naturals for this will be very pricey and probably a waste; unless you are...
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    Re: Help with victorian perfume

    As long as you don't eat the bitter almond oil (but good luck finding any) you'll be alright (cyanide). It won't smell anything like lily of the valley though, I've tried it.
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    Re: What smells say Thailand to you?

    I have lived there for two years and in SE Asia for 10 and we went there regularly. Definitely lemon grass and don't forget frangipani. Also for lime I would use kaffir lime. And galangal instead of...
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    Re: Forming acetals

    Thanks David yes, I have both, the amyl version seems a little "rounder" to me, but they are indeed quite similar




    Chris it is indeed a discontinued fragrance and I am doing both because I...
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    Re: Reformulation later?

    Chrestomanthic you have some very nice, generous and very experienced people here giving you good advice, advice you asked for. You would do well to heed it, but of course you can do whatever you...
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    Re: Forming acetals

    The isomerization issue is interesting; for example there seems to be a lot of isoamyl salycilate in it, but your comment makes me think perhaps this could have been originally plain old Amyl...
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    Re: Forming acetals

    An intriguing idea, which would make sense given what I am smelling, but sadly no methyl anthrilate listed. Is it possible the GMCS missed it?
  11. Re: IFRA, difference between tea absolute and CO2?

    I think this is telling. When institutions have to be responsive to their customers and care about them, they make attractive, easy to use websites (among other things). When they have unbridled or...
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    Re: Forming acetals

    agree .5% of C-8 is a heck of a lot, especially for me as I really don't like the smell of the aldehydes.
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    Re: Forming acetals

    Well I am pretty patient, I've been working on this for more than 2 years, and up to formula number 22 (version 6). But I admit I have only had the c-8 for 9 months.

    I agree it is possible with...
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    Re: Forming acetals

    so if I put in a dehydrating agent and kept it warm do you think that would do the trick, at least minimally?

    I would love to work out a way to just buy them but I don't see how. I just really...
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    Forming acetals

    I have written about this in the past and David confirmed one can encourage acetal formation by diluting in ethanol and waiting, but I have not been too successful. The two acetals I am looking for...
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    Re: Ambergris in the UK

    The prices being quoted on those eBay listing are highly optimistic; you can buy top grade stuff from a reputable supplier in New Zealand for $US25 per gram. 130 UK pounds for 1.88 grams is usurious.
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    Re: pheromone use in perfumery

    David I guess the answer is yes, although I am not sure I would, depending on how bad they smell or unpredictable the effects. I have just always been curious about them. As for the effect I guess it...
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    Re: pheromone use in perfumery

    Thank you both for taking the time to reply so thoroughly. Fascinating indeed. As I suspected it is quite complicated and with a lot of unknowns. It also seems like you would be working with a...
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    pheromone use in perfumery

    I have questions for two members on this subject:

    One, for David: Do you know whether pheromones are ever used in mainstream fragrance (I guess I am talking about a perfume or cologne, and also...
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    Re: Dazzling the Natural Perfumery Priestesses

    Nizan as you say natural perfumery is a philosophical stance more than anything although I would also say there is a certain aesthetic to it as well which I can understand. I think you will fail to...
  21. Re: Infusing Ambergris powder in Sandalwood oil

    As Mumsy says.

    Also I have mixed ambergris tincture with sandalwood in the past and while the effect is noticeable, I found it tended to attenuate the sandalwood. Also, if ambergris tincture takes...
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    Re: Lilac saga 2014 …. enfleurage time again

    Mumsy I have been wanting to do this for years but have not managed for various reasons, usually being my not being near my lilac when it is blooming (as is the case this year, plus it's alwasy WET...
  23. Re: Solubility Problems with Ambrette Seed CO2

    I think I used IPM for this one and it worked fine. There is an old thread somewhere where I asked about diluting co2s I find they are often hard to dilute in ethanol. Although as I understand it...
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    Re: Always Vanilla Ad - UGH!

    To many I think vanilla has come to mean ho hum or ordinary (in fact the term has now become part of normal usage for this). But I always remember it is in fact one of the most exotic things you can...
  25. Thread: Viola odorata

    by gecko214
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    Re: Viola odorata

    No I have not used benzyl benzoate in violet as to me it is quite faint and more of a solvent as I understand it -- . But it could smooth things out I suppose. I doubt it is the magic ingredient you...
  26. Thread: Viola odorata

    by gecko214
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    Re: Viola odorata

    From my notes: Try a touch of ambrette seed abs or ambrettolide if you have them. And phenylethy alcohol. And a tiny trace of oakmoss. This may add some velvet. And for a "woody humus violet" very...
  27. Re: (+)-methyl dihydroepijasmonate AKA methyl 2-[(1S,2S)-3-oxo-2-pentylcyclopentyl]acetate CAS: 3964

    This is fascinating Paul. But now I am confused too... So you are saying the molecule you identified in the GCMS is NOT Paradisone?

    Whatever the case now I am certainly very interested in...
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    Re: Good heliotope

    Reviving this thread as I have recently received some acetophenone, and I was surprised at how much it reminded me of heliotropin. I then looked at good scents and it does indeed reference this...
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    Re: La La Essential Oils - thoughts

    Sadly Nadia there are no recommended Indian suppliers. There may indeed be some that are okay, but their unscrupulous colleagues have ruined it for India's reputation for EOs and absolutes, and...
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    Re: An Iso E Super question

    Not sure, but must have to do with how you store your materials.... Lol (need to edit your post)
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    Re: Patchouli aging

    Which is why it is so hard to choose what material to lay away. I suppose maybe just buy a few kilos of several different ones.
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    Re: Patchouli aging

    Great information everyone, thanks! David, did anything you worked on ever call for "aged" patchouli? Or is the idea it improves things just a myth?
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    Re: Patchouli aging

    I have for some time now been tempted to buy a few liters of patchouli and keep it in reserve for say 10 years. The reason I have not is I don't know what patchouli would be best for this. If I am...
  34. Re: dimethyl anthranilate vs methyl anthranilate

    Thanks Chris,

    This is very helpful.

    You are right, I don't mind the aldehydes being softened, because mostly I find them to remind me of everything I don't like in "artificial" scents. This...
  35. dimethyl anthranilate vs methyl anthranilate

    I occasionally play around making up the classics from the Louis Appell formulas. I don't always have everything and so I improvise when necessary (I highly recommend it by the way, you really learn...
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    Re: Immortelle Absolute into solution...?

    Hmm, strange. Try pure ipm first and you may need to heat it too. I can't remember if I later added ethanol.
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    Re: Immortelle Absolute into solution...?

    I think I used IPM with no problem for this one.
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    Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    I don't "get" the absolute at all, on its own I find it almost unpleasant and kind of "muddy" even in dilution. The real flower is indeed a lovely and heady thing, we used to buy them as cut flowers...
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    Re: jonquil absolute

    Well I can't say $100/7 ml sounds "too good to be true", it's still a lot of money, but I get your point nonetheless...
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    Re: jonquil absolute

    Jazztweety I truly don't understand it. I used to think it was just indirectly paying for the social advantages of living in Europe, which seems to equal lower salaries, higher consumer prices and...
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    Re: jonquil absolute

    Thanks Jazztweety, it looks like Liberty natural has by far the best price, at $100 for a 1/4 oz compared to $150 at whitelotusaromatics and somewhere around $200 at Victorie inc.(who sell by ml). ...
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    Re: jonquil absolute

    Danke Graphite, thanks Adam,

    Man it's expensive. ugh.

    Adam no offense about proxisante, I really don't have a horse in the race. You are still one of my preferred suppliers.
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    jonquil absolute

    I have convinced myself I need this material for a formula I am working on, I have narcissus but the description of jonquil absolute (which I have never smelled) seems better suited to what I need....
  44. Thread: Fecal notes

    by gecko214
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    Re: Fecal notes

    David again I would always defer to your knowledge but here I am confused as my little bottle of Castoreum abs from a certain French supplier says "Origine: France," Adam at Hermitage says his is...
  45. Thread: Fecal notes

    by gecko214
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    Re: Fecal notes

    David I would not be one to doubt your knowledge and experience, but I wonder then, why castoreum and civet absolute are still produced in France? Surely not (solely) for the Chinese market? Or only...
  46. Thread: Fecal notes

    by gecko214
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    Re: Fecal notes

    Sorry to continue in this off-topic direction but I think "forced extraction" (scraping out the gland of captive civets) happens in Ethiopian civet farming (or so I have read) but I know for a fact...
  47. Re: Proxisante is going to get some interesting things

    I believe he will also have and English language website up soon, or at least that's what I think I understood... (for DrSmellthis, the "intellectually lazy American")
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    Re: Musk Ketone Restrictions

    I do own a sample and it is lovely, but I keep it at arms length, it accumulates in the environment and accumulates in human fatty tissue (and breast milk). It may also potentiate carcinogens if I...
  49. Thread: Vanilla bean

    by gecko214
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    Re: Vanilla bean

    I made my tincture age faster by using a sonicator (actually a big 2 liter chinese-made ultrasound cleaner) , but basically the same procedure as jsparla
  50. Re: Need your opinions regarding, Eden Botonical Essential Oils

    They have always been excellent for me. Good range, good quality, reasonable prices.
  51. Re: Proxisante is going to get some interesting things

    At the risk of reigniting the competitive spirit above, I though I'd let everyone know I got a sample of Robertet's "Bigardier coeur" from Philippe, and it is truly a fantastic substance. He will be...
  52. Re: Perfumer’s Supply House Tools – Table of Esters and their Smells

    These are fantastic Paul -- if the few errors could be corrected and we can get them into a sticky that would be great... I'll wait to print them out.
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    Re: Weak cedar accord

    Try adding some patchouli, coumarin and isoamyl salicylate, plus some verbena or citral at the top.
  54. Thread: Timbersilk

    by gecko214
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    Re: Timbersilk

    Hermitage does have it, and in the US you can buy it from pkiler.
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    Re: Good MUSK combos?

    James I generally feel the same way but in the case of these musks you mention I worry about bio accumulation and endocrine disruption, which are serious issues with these as I understand it.
  56. Thread: Araucaria

    by gecko214
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    Re: Araucaria

    Graphite, sounds like an interesting material. Can you give us your impressions of the odor? Would you buy it again now that you have smelled it?
  57. Replies
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    Re: Good MUSK combos?

    I know this may have been covered elsewhere but I could not find it in searching: I have been playing with some of the Louis Appell formulas for the "classics" (which by the way I highly recommend, I...
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    Re: Natural vs synthetic

    Anya, while we've got your attention, did you ever complete the GCMS of various supposedly natural honeysuckle absolutes? I know it was months and months ago, and I have occasionally looked to see...
  59. Re: Proxisante is going to get some interesting things

    Phillipe confirmed to me he had to send back the Cedre Texas Coeur because when he got it, as others have now reported, it was too fresh and still had the distillation notes in it, so he sent it back...
  60. Re: Proxisante is going to get some interesting things

    Adam I don't think you need to worry too much. Europe has what, 350 million people? Yet we don't have nearly as many online essential oil suppliers as the US. I think there's room for a few more...
  61. Re: Proxisante is going to get some interesting things

    Phillipe has received everything and it is now on the website for sale. Be quick, as it seems to be moving fast -- the Texas cedar coeur is already sold out (and I missed it, curses!)
  62. Replies
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    Re: Violet accord - i am lost

    The closest to natural deer musk is l-muscone, also hard to get a hold of. What are you using for the parma violet and victoria violet in the formula?

    PS I have not forgotten you, just no time...
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    Omikron.de has new ownership

    Another one for the supplier sticky once it is ready: For those of you on the continent, I thought you might want to know that OMIKRON (http://www.omikron-online.de) are under new ownership and they...
  64. Re: Proxisante is going to get some interesting things

    Phillipe very kindly send me samples of the cardamom NHS and the Atlas coeur which I received today. The cardamom is true to the description at Robertet's site "Captured volatiles of Elletaria...
  65. Re: Proxisante is going to get some interesting things

    Hi Graphite, sorry, no I have not tried it. Let us know how it is?

    - - - Updated - - -



    As I understand it, yes, its robertet's bois d'encens.
  66. Re: Proxisante is going to get some interesting things

    Proxisante sent me a mail a couple days ago saying he is also ordering cardamon heart, frankincense wood, and vetiver heart (I don't know if it is the IFF one Paul) thought folks would be interested...
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    Re: Honeysuckle absolute from Haven Essence

    Months, if not even more than a year ago, Anya M said she was organizing gcms analysis of several supposedly authentic honeysuckles to prove once and for all if any were indeed natural. I have...
  68. Re: Best scent absorbing materials for enfleurage

    Not sure I understand here Nizan; you will enfleurage live flowers, okay, interesting idea. But if you are doing true enfleurage there will be no liquid, and the fat should be smeared on something...
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    Re: Violet accord - i am lost

    I made up a very small batch of the accord given by Paul, (but substituting the anis aldeyde for dimethyl hidroquinone.) It is true the 8% violet leaf is too much for my taste, and dominates on first...
  70. Re: Proxisante is going to get some interesting things

    Phillipe at Proxisante confirmed to me yesterday he has ordered 10 KG each of Guaiac heart, Texas Cedar heart, Natural Cedrol, and Altlantic Cedar Heart (all from Robertet). We should expect these to...
  71. Re: Proxisante is going to get some interesting things

    I had a chat with him today again and he is just establishing a relationship with Robertet, but it's hard for him to buy the minimum quantities per SKU as a small business, not knowing what will sell...
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    Re: Violet accord - i am lost

    Point taken David.



    Well if you are playing around to get your formulation right, using 10% diluted materials, even 8% will not set you back too much. David's accord has only about 2% so you...
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    Re: Violet accord - i am lost

    Milhaus I would just buy some violet leaf abs -- but the very smallest amount you can buy, it is so extremely powerful as a hobbyist 1 gram would probably last you years. On a usage basis it is not...
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    Re: Violet accord - i am lost

    Well I certainly will not argue with your experience David; it is interesting that in the professional world, Dimethyl Hydroquinone is not used for violet.

    FYI though, I was going from a...
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    Re: Violet accord - i am lost

    I think the chemical 1,4 dimethoxybenzene is also important. (David has mentioned this elsewhere)When trying to make a natural accord I used star anis oil to replace this, with some success.

    I...
  76. Proxisante is going to get some interesting things

    I hope I am not violating any rules by posting this news about a supplier that I think will be of interest to the DIY community: www.proxisante.com (after some lobbying on my part) will be getting...
  77. Thread: Farnesol

    by gecko214
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    Re: Farnesol

    Funny I was just reading about this material a couple days ago and wondering if I should have ordered it in my last order from Hermitage... sounds quite nice. And useful.
  78. Re: Where To Buy High Quality Mysore Sandalwood - And Current Price per gm/ ml ??

    There has been much discussion of this on other threads. Not sure if they have been restored yet. Meanwhile look here: http://www.libertynatural.com/ they are a good company and claim to have some....
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    Re: aldehyde C-8 diethyl acetal

    Yes, I was looking further into it and for example, it is said to be best "smelled at 1% or less", and here we have 0.5% in a final formula, which is quite a lot in fact, so possible it could have...
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    Re: aldehyde C-8 diethyl acetal

    Thanks David, extremely helpful as usual. It's 0.5% in the GCMS so it well could be natural as you say. Probably formed over time one way or another. Do you know which citrus has the most octanal...
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    aldehyde C-8 diethyl acetal

    Can anyone tell me anything about this chemical? CAS number 54889-48-4 AKA Octane, 1,1-diethoxy- , AKA octanal diethyl acetal

    Good scents says "not found in nature" but could it be an acetal...
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    Re: Update (2nd Nov)

    Thanks for your answer and I'll look forward to Grant's comments, if he has the time. I can only imagine how hard/time-consuming it must be to migrate such a massive database like this.

    On...
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    Re: Update (2nd Nov)

    Thanks for all the updates and reassurances. And thanks for this amazing site, wherever it is housed. The one thing I have not been able to figure out, even after searching around quite a bit, is...
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    Re: how do u clean your glass beakers

    If you have dishwashing machine, that should work. Assuming the mouth is big enough. I think I remember Chris saying he uses one too, to clean his glassware.
  85. Re: The troublesome top note of some cedarwood oils

    It is possible, if I could find a supplier for it, but I am also trying to use the constituents of the GCMS as clues to what the actual botanical ingredients are (to not have to reconstitute...
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    Re: Basenotes Perfumer Pass

    I'd be willing, but I really don't have anything ready of any quality yet enough to be evaluated... The longer I do this, the less satisfied I am with my fiddling and the more respect I have for the...
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    Re: Anosmic to hydroxycitronellal?

    Well I worked on it yesterday, with smelling strip. I can definitely detect it now (at 10%), and have the "note" in my head I think, but it's still a tiny little thing, just barely poking out its...
  88. The troublesome top note of some cedarwood oils

    I am working from a GCMS of a perfume which shows a large amount of natural cedarwood oil. Critical to the accord, I have worked with a lot of different cedarwood oils without complete success. It...
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    Re: Going to Grasse

    Indeed... I will try harder. Well 750 per product is still rather rich for me, but falls into the group buy level at least... Oops not supossed to talk about group buys...
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    Re: Hyrax Hyraceum

    And you can also buy the pure absolute here (they also sell castoreum absolute):

    http://proxisante.com/absolue-naturelle-et-pures/867-absolue-de-pierre-d-afrique.html

    Edit: it looks like it is...
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    Re: Going to Grasse

    Ah Robertet, if only I could get samples of even ten percent of their products... I don't suppose you know anyone there?

    "Inexpesive local scents" -- by this you mean complete fragrances I...
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    Re: Anosmic to hydroxycitronellal?

    Thanks David, that's reassuring!
  93. Replies
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    Re: Going to Grasse

    Thanks Gido, very useful. I figured as much, but I was hoping I would find at least one or two gems. I do speak French so that should help as you say, but its hard to talk yoir way into an exclusive...
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    Anosmic to hydroxycitronellal?

    Is it possible one can be anosmic to hydoxycitronellal? It is a very common material but new for me as I am just starting to use ACs after years of using only naturals. I am having a hard time...
  95. Thread: enfleurage

    by gecko214
    Replies
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    Re: enfleurage

    In another forum someone said they had success with shea butter. You probably know this already but you need a fat that will be solid at room temperature, and that does not have too much odor on it's...
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    Going to Grasse

    I am going on a short pilgrimage to Grasse next week. Aside from the obvious factory visits and tours, and the perfume museum, does anyone have any suggestions as to what to do/see (related to...
  97. Thread: Heliotropine

    by gecko214
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    Re: Heliotropine

    It's actually very nice stuff, I love it. The story is, it is a precursor to making an illegal drug, and thus controlled and not generally available for sale to non-professionals (of either sort, I...
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    Re: Geosmin Thread Deleted...?

    Yes you are GUILTY Javiero. Shame on you :)

    It is good to know stuigi wrote to you privately, but I still find it vaguely pathological that the entire thread was deleted without discussion,...
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    Re: Geosmin Thread Deleted...?

    Hmm, well this really is passive-aggressive behavior (again) from some unknown mod. Why not at least post something saying "hey guys, move it to the split forum" or some such? We got a message in Feb...
  100. Re: Chart of Most Frequently Used Perfume Notes by Deborah Dolen

    "codswallop" = "nonsense" (I had to look it up...)
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