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    Re: Quince accord question for you

    Yes, quinces are often less fragrant when raw. There are a few varieties that are considerably more fragrant than others, such as 'Vranja'. Cloning is the best way to insure a consistently higher...
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    Re: Quince accord question for you

    Agreed, both smell more floral than apples. For those that don't know, the French varieties are primarily Cydonia oblonga and the Swedish varieties are Chaenomeles japonica/speciosa.
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    Re: Quince accord question for you

    As one common variety is called 'Pineapple', it seems logical that some quinces might possess a note similar to pineapple guava. However, this might be less indicative of older varieties. Luther...
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    Re: Quince accord question for you

    Ah, I see. I have a Japanese quince (Chaenomeles japonica) bush in my garden and the smell of the fruit is so captivating that I too was compelled to make a liqueur with them. Did your father-in-law...
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    Re: Quince accord question for you

    Midden, is your interest in the quince also related to Van Gogh's painting, or do you just like the smell?

    I think that ethyl safranate would work well, Geco. Damascenone is structurally very...
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    Re: Quince accord question for you

    That would make perfect sense Manuel, seeing as you're from California. One of the main cultivars grown there is called 'Pineapple', which has a slight pineapple flavour:


    ...
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    Re: Quince accord question for you

    The difference is significant, but I think that it would be better if you could compare for yourself. Whole pieces of cooked quince, for comparison:
    ...
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    Re: Quince accord question for you

    Yes, the addition of sugar makes a significant difference to the aroma, as does the higher temperature (~105 °C) used in marmalade making. The aroma becomes more sweet due to the interaction between...
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    Re: Super smelly materials storage . . ?

    Connect the duct to a vent in the window then. A silent extractor fan can be set to come on every hour or so. If they oppose even that then connect the duct to a carbon filter instead.
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    Re: Super smelly materials storage . . ?

    Have you considered building a cupboard that vents through the external wall?
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    Re: Jean Carles method, replacing materials

    You're welcome, Gus. With regard to the bromstyrol, I would focus more on the phenyl acetaldehyde and cinnamyl alcohol. Both of which have been used to replace bromstyrol at one point or another. The...
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    Re: Jean Carles method, replacing materials

    As Paul said.

    Rhodol acetate is probably rhodinyl acetate. If you can't source that then you can try citronellyl acetate. Argeol is alpha, beta santalol. If you can't source that then use genuine...
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    Re: list of odour value for scent materials?

    Ah, you're referring to another value. You see, odour activity values (OAVs) are also sometimes referred to as odour values. The OAV is the ratio of the concentration of an odourant to its threshold...
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    Re: Cis-3-hexenyl hexanoate?

    It is available from PW:

    http://www.perfumersworld.com/view.php?pro_id=4GG01946


    I have some from elsewhere and it's very refreshing and pleasant. Not particularly reminiscent of green tea by...
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    Re: list of odour value for scent materials?

    The OAV is not directly related to the vapour pressure, Matt. You may find the following post of some use:
    ...
  16. Re: Violet flower absolute / enfleurage / maceration ?

    The volatile oil content is generally highest in the morning.



    Sorry, I don't know of any books that are catered to hobbyists. My thread on the subject is geared towards manufacturers, but...
  17. Re: Violet flower absolute / enfleurage / maceration ?

    See also p. 252 in the first link, regarding the digestion temperature and total charge (per kg of fat) for violet flowers.
  18. Re: Violet flower absolute / enfleurage / maceration ?

    Violet flowers were traditionally extracted with hot fat. See pp. 116-121, below:

    https://archive.org/details/NavesMazuyerNaturalPerfumeMaterials1947/page/n135


    See also pp. 98-200, below:
    ...
  19. Thread: Clay - How?

    by Pears
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    Re: Clay - How?

    Glad to hear that it's being put to good use. :-)
  20. Thread: Clay - How?

    by Pears
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    Re: Clay - How?

    I thought that you received some 2,6-xylenol a couple of years ago, Paul. That was certainly the plan.

    Some good suggestions also.
  21. Thread: Clay - How?

    by Pears
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    Re: Clay - How?

    Earthy pyrazine is a synonym of 2-ethyl-3-methoxypyrazine.

    Terranol also has a damp, earthy quality, but the dampness is less fresh and somewhat more muted than with earthy pyrazine. It also has...
  22. Thread: Clay - How?

    by Pears
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    Re: Clay - How?

    You may wish to try a combination of earthy pyrazine and 2,6-xylenol. The former is more on the wet-earthy side; the latter has a dry, mineral note, similar to that found in garden centres. For...
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    Re: Why is oil not used for enfleurage?

    Good idea. See here.




    Yes, adherence is another issue. The strained flowers were often treated with hot water and hydraulically pressed to remove any adhering fat.
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    Re: Why is oil not used for enfleurage?

    The idea of cold enfleurage is to keep the flowers alive so that they continue producing a scent. Submerging them in oil may kill them sooner, it would largely depend on the rate of absorption.
    ...
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    Re: Incense Materials

    Many incense blends also contain some form of sugar, so you may wish to add something for the caramelised/burnt sugar note (furaneol, 5-methyl furfural, etc.).
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    Re: Evaporation Rate / Molecular weights

    There will always be some changes but the additional qualities may not be detrimental to the overall blend. If you were trying to replace one for the other entirely, then yes, that would be more...
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    Re: Evaporation Rate / Molecular weights

    Precisely, pavomi. That is why I said in post #2, "however, there isn't a set way to achieve this; sometimes they will smell similar, sometimes not".
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    Re: Evaporation Rate / Molecular weights

    You can try converting the aldehydes to Schiff bases, or the alcohols to esters, for example.

    Yes, turning a base note into a similar top note is more difficult, partly because by decreasing the...
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    Re: Evaporation Rate / Molecular weights

    Greetings Avninder,

    larger molecules tend to have greater intermolecular forces and therefore higher boiler points.

    Synthetics of higher molecular weight can sometimes possess similar odour...
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    Re: vetiver question...

    See here.
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    Re: I everyone. Under heavy rocket fire, here in Southern Israel.. vetiver question...

    I said that I sympathize with those effected (in both nations). Making life references in passing is one thing, but stating it in the title is clearly very different in nature. I will not discuss...
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    Re: I everyone. Under heavy rocket fire, here in Southern Israel.. vetiver question...

    You can get caught up in the semantics if you wish. Stay on topic, please.
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    Re: I everyone. Under heavy rocket fire, here in Southern Israel.. vetiver question...

    While I sympathize with all effected, this isn't the right place to discuss such things.
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    Re: Fog Machine Scent?

    What is it about the smell that you find so appealing?
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    Re: Fog Machine Scent?

    Yes, Julian. However, there are safety guidelines that must be considered in certain situations. See here for the guidelines on the live performance industry in Ontario, for example.

    The use of...
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    Re: Fog Machine Scent?

    Crackers are still widely used, but perhaps things are different in your country.
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    Re: Fog Machine Scent?

    If it's the type of machine that uses mineral oil (hazer), then one might expect the smell to be somewhat oily, waxy and solvent-like.
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    Re: Is this the correct ethanol I need to buy?

    Yes, it often contains about 0.5% perfume, but this may be less offensive than the ~1.6% isopropyl alcohol and ~0.8% tert-butyl alcohol in the above product. You will have to see for yourself. In the...
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    Re: Is this the correct ethanol I need to buy?

    Partially denatured ('teilweise denaturiert') or perfumers alcohol would be better. If you can't get these then you can compare the above product with 'kosmetisches basiswasser', to see which you...
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    Re: Manufacture of Concretes/Absolutes

    For further reading, see pp. 57-69, below. The information is taken from two of the books that I cited earlier, among others.
    ...
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    Re: Manufacture of Concretes/Absolutes

    Indeed, as Alysoun and Paul stated.
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    Re: Manufacture of Concretes/Absolutes

    Hi Thea,

    I originally discussed both refrigerant gases and hexane with him.

    Historically, benzene and petroleum ether were mostly used. The former is carcinogenic and was therefore banned for...
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    Re: Manufacture of Concretes/Absolutes

    I'm glad that you found it of interest guys.

    It's worth mentioning that the vacuum pump should also be explosion-proof.

    The evaporator specified in the last excerpt is called a batch pan...
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    Manufacture of Concretes/Absolutes

    A manufacturer contacted me a while back for instructions on how to manufacture concretes/absolutes with hexane, etc. I didn't charge him for this, so I am happy to include some of the information...
  45. Thread: Ginger?

    by Pears
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    Re: Ginger?

    Providing that it is sufficiently diluted, then yes you can use ginger oil on the hair and body. If this doesn't answer your question then please rephrase the question.
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    Re: Eugenol is Heavy restricted... And clove eo?

    Eugenol has some anti-inflammatory properties (see here). Phenols such as eugenol also inhibit protein glycation (see here and here) and therefore have some anti-diabetic and anti-aging potential...
  47. Thread: Church Incense

    by Pears
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    Re: Church Incense

    Indeed, it did strike me as being rather snobbish when I first read it, but for historical reasons I thought that it should be included. We can extract the useful information and disregard the rest.
  48. Thread: Church Incense

    by Pears
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    Re: Church Incense

    I'm glad that it helped to jog your memory, ak. They may since have changed their production methods, 40 years is a long time. They don't mention if they add any fragrance to their no. 36, you'd have...
  49. Thread: Church Incense

    by Pears
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    Re: Church Incense

    There are some pieces of Hougari/Hojari that are aqua-green and blue-green, but the latter is so prized that it is rarely exported. Truly blue resin would be a different matter though, so we're...
  50. Thread: Church Incense

    by Pears
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    Re: Church Incense

    I'm not aware of any naturally blue plant resins, akguy. Some grades of frankincense are green (Hougari Royal, Hougari Superior, etc.). The pale light from a window could probably make it appear more...
  51. Thread: Church Incense

    by Pears
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    Re: Church Incense

    While I have my own reasons for being interested in the subject, I'm not sure that I would have researched so thoroughly if it had just been for myself. I noticed that there were sometimes inquiries...
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    Re: Is styrax related to hyraceum?

    As Lellabelle stated, the two materials are unrelated. Styrax is the oleoresin of a tree. Which tree exactly depends on the context (see here), but today it is produced from Liquidambar orientalis...
  53. Re: Cannabis Accord formula / recipe help / critique

    Aside from those already mentioned, try adding some oregano oil (high carvacrol).
  54. Thread: Church Incense

    by Pears
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    Re: Church Incense

    I'm glad that you found it interesting guys.

    I have just added a couple of excerpts under 'Notes and Queries: a Medium of Inter-Communication for Literary Men,...' (1856):, so check those out...
  55. Thread: Church Incense

    by Pears
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    Church Incense

    There are occasionally inquiries about church incense on the boards, so I have decided to share some of the information that I have collated on the subject:


    'Memorials of the Church of SS. Peter...
  56. Re: Why isn't Thyme used more as a note in fragrances?

    Lemon thyme is the name given to a couple of varieties, Matt. They have been used for centuries. I have some information on file if you wish to know more.
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    Re: Lutheran incense?

    Prinknash Abbey is one of the leading producers of incense for church use. According to their site and video, they use olibanum, and depending on the blend also benzoin, styrax, myrrh, peru balsam,...
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    Re: Lutheran incense?

    I'm glad that you found it interesting, Tina.

    To complement your earlier post, there are a few recipes in Polygraphice that Matt may find of interest. The fifth edition contains some additional...
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    Re: Lutheran incense?

    For some reason, the BN system misaligns any quotes within quotes when it changes the page layout, every few minutes. To read the quotes as they were written, you can either click on the link at the...
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    Re: Lutheran incense?

    Nice find, Tina.

    It's worth mentioning that there were two main types of "storax" at the time - solid and liquid. Unless a recipe specifically called for the liquid kind, then "storax" usually...
  61. Re: What ways can a methyl salicylate, naphthalene and indole accord be used

    They are used together in various accords - cassie, white floral types, etc. See below for demo formulas:

    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/demos/dm1026731.html (first formula)
    ...
  62. Re: What ways can a methyl salicylate, naphthalene and indole accord be used

    Hi Matt,

    naphthalene isn't directly added to any fragrances in the EU, it's use was banned in 2005. The closest in smell is indole.

    Merry Christmas to you also!
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    Re: Frankincense Notes

    Yes, it can also be produced from benzoin. I was referring to the species used for the olibanum variety, in order to distinguish it from those offered by Robertet and Payan.



    I believe that you...
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    Re: Frankincense Notes

    Yes, Choya Loban would also be worth trying. It's produced from B. serrata.

    Robertet don't specify the species used in their Olibanum HT but it's from Somalia, so not B. serrata. Payan Bertrand...
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    Re: Frankincense Notes

    No worries, I didn't take it personally.

    One of the issues that you'll have in replicating the smell of burning frankincense is that the nonvolatile diterpenes become vaporised. These often...
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    Re: Frankincense Notes

    That's correct, it was just a typo. Any experienced perfumers would have known which one I meant. I'll cut you some slack for trying to educate me about it's route of synthesis. lol
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    Re: Frankincense Notes

    It has the same structure as Terrasol, minus a hydroxyl group and hydrogen. How would you say their odours compare, Paul? Terrasol has a green, balsamic smell but it's probably a little too earthy...
  68. Re: IFRA Annex i only lists through the letter M?

    Anytime.
  69. Re: IFRA Annex i only lists through the letter M?

    Annex I includes 3-propylidenephthalide but they have listed it near the top due to it's number (locant). However, if you search for the "Overview of the IFRA Standards", you will see that they have...
  70. Re: Anyone Try’s to blend for head top note Lavender Saffron and nutmeg ?

    If you want a transparent shower gel then don't add any fixed oils (jojoba, etc.), as these will tend to cause clouding. Ideally, you'd want a solvent that is miscible with water, such as DPG.

    It...
  71. Re: Anyone Try’s to blend for head top note Lavender Saffron and nutmeg ?

    The oleoresin contains a high proportion of nonvolatile carotenoids and is considerably less strong than the essential oil. The latter, when genuine, is extremely expensive. If the oleoresin isn't...
  72. Re: Anyone Try’s to blend for head top note Lavender Saffron and nutmeg ?

    If he can't even smell the saffron when it's used in a 20:2:1 ratio, then that would suggest to me that he could do with using a less dilute saffron extract, or a saffron base. However, the nutmeg is...
  73. Re: Anyone Try’s to blend for head top note Lavender Saffron and nutmeg ?

    Your saffron is probably a dilution, try a stronger dilution, the pure absolute or a synthetic base (you could make your own with things like safranal, safraleine, etc.)
  74. Re: Which aromachemical should I try for a pine or spruce note? How about citrus herbal or rose?

    I have two samples from different suppliers and one is much lighter in colour than the other. The supplier of the former is no longer in business, but if you shop around you might be able to find an...
  75. Re: Which aromachemical should I try for a pine or spruce note? How about citrus herbal or rose?

    Unless you first use the ACs to create a realistic replacer, then no they won't be interchangeable with an oil. Otherwise, you can select those ACs that emphasize the most relevant characteristics of...
  76. Re: Which aromachemical should I try for a pine or spruce note? How about citrus herbal or rose?

    You may wish to try a combination of alpha terpineol, bornyl or isobornyl acetate, rosemary (camphor chemotype) oil, fir balsam absolute and perhaps a little oakmoss absolute.



    You may wish...
  77. Re: Why isn't Thyme used more as a note in fragrances?

    Thyme and thymol were often used in soap and shampoo fragrances, and they still are to a certain degree.
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    Re: Register with BLHSAS.. Help please!

    Yes, small quantities as well as large.
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    Re: Chemistry - sumatra benzoin

    If the issue with the atomizer is due to encrustation, then you can try adding a high boiling solvent (benzyl benzoate, triethyl citrate, etc.) to the fragrance, as this may help to keep the resin...
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    Re: Chemistry - sumatra benzoin

    Okay, I have sent you a supplier based in your country.
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    Re: Chemistry - sumatra benzoin

    What is your location and what kind of quantity are you after?
  82. Replies
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    Re: Chemistry - sumatra benzoin

    It has already been moved to the DIY section.
  83. Replies
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    Re: Chemistry - sumatra benzoin

    Hi Alex, you may find this useful:

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/430727-Adulterated-Benzoin?p=3991357&viewfull=1#post3991357


    The powdered variety is also more prone to oxidation and loss...
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    Re: Ideas about Muguet chemicals

    One of these is an aldehyde, the clue is in the name.
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    Re: Cannabis supporting notes

    Oregano oil (high carvacrol), patchouli oil, black pepper oil, guaiacwood oil, tobacco absolute and birch tar oil (the latter isn't completely natural, although the components could potentially be...
  86. Re: acetone, benzyl acetate, camphor, ethyl acetate, and methylene chloride in perfume

    Acetone is used as a denaturant or solvent, not for it's scent. You may be thinking of something else.
  87. Re: acetone, benzyl acetate, camphor, ethyl acetate, and methylene chloride in perfume

    The standards only pertain to things that are prohibited or restricted in some way. If there are no standards, then they are not prohibited or restricted by the IFRA.
  88. Re: Rain - The Chemical Compounds Behind The Smell Of Rain

    Yes, Calone and other ozonic compounds can also be useful. Particularly if you're trying to mimic the smell after a storm, as downdrafts can bring ozone rich air from the upper troposphere down to...
  89. Re: Rain - The Chemical Compounds Behind The Smell Of Rain

    I'm not sure if you were addressing me, parker. It wasn't an explanation for the smell of rain as such, just for the similarity between ambrinol and geosmin.

    The former isn't so similar that it...
  90. Re: Rain - The Chemical Compounds Behind The Smell Of Rain

    I should mention that the similarity in odour is due to (+)-a-ambrinol in particular. Ambrinol 95 from IFF contains a sufficient amount of the (+)- isomer for the geosmin-like quality to be very...
  91. Re: Rain - The Chemical Compounds Behind The Smell Of Rain

    Neither geosmin or ambrinol are particularly nice smelling on their own, no. In fact, they smell pretty much like mold. The manufacturers often try to focus more on the ambergris aspects of ambrinol,...
  92. Re: Rain - The Chemical Compounds Behind The Smell Of Rain

    Moss naphthaleneol is structurally related to geosmin, which most likely explains why it has a somewhat similar damp, earthy quality. Another structurally related compound with similar olfactory...
  93. Re: Rain - The Chemical Compounds Behind The Smell Of Rain

    The problem with pyridine is that it's very fleeting. Quinoline is prohibited for use in cosmetics intended for market, but you could still use it for personal use, if you don't mind the health...
  94. Re: What is "minimal but necessary synthetics" ? Newbie here

    These are just the allergens that must be listed if present at concentrations greater than 0.001%. They may have been added directly, or simply be components of any bases or natural extracts that...
  95. Re: What is "minimal but necessary synthetics" ? Newbie here

    Write the list and we may be able to tell you.
  96. Re: What is "minimal but necessary synthetics" ? Newbie here

    It depends what you mean by attar. If you mean the traditional blends containing things like rose, sandalwood, oud and musk, then some substitutions are to be expected these days.

    You would have...
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    Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    They have modified it just enough in order not to get sued. It's not easy to come up with a crest that doesn't bear some resemblance to someone else's though. At least, not if you're trying to make...
  98. Re: amount of dorinia sa e in a rose based perfume

    Good investigative work. Okay, depending on which batch you have you can amend 0.66% and 1.66% to 0.78% and 1.95%, respectively.
  99. Re: amount of dorinia sa e in a rose based perfume

    I believe that Dorinia contains 3% b-damascone. If you were following the IFRA guidelines then you could use up to 0.66% Dorinia in the finished fragrance.

    If you weren't following their...
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    Re: Freezring and coloring fragrance

    You're welcome, Kennel.

    It's worth mentioning that visible light can also degrade some dyes. Obviously, you couldn't add anything to block the visible spectrum as it would defeat the purpose of...
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