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    Re: Honey note

    Youíll need to rely on them: I looked at Meil Blanc for Hermitage but with a minimum order of 10Kg+ and such a powerful material I saw no prospect of it selling sadly.
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    Re: Sulfur Musks

    I find nothing powdery in Tonquitone and itís certainly agresic - add a little norlimbanol and you could be there - have you tried that?
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    Re: Looking for a "Tar" note

    m-Cresol and p-Cresol are both good alternatives, so are Thyme & Origanum - a combination of these should give a good asphalt note - my suggestion would be to add a trace of Methyl salicylate...
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    Re: Green Tea Accord

    This is great advice: in my experience trying to interpret a scent too literally is a mistake. Iíve also observed that natural tea materials tend to be a bit backward in coming forward. I realise...
  5. Sticky: Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    The key reason why you donít want to add any of these things to your fragrance is that they are likely to cause solubility problems, resulting in either cloudy or separated liquid.

    Jojoba, sweet...
  6. Re: Search recipes or formula of disigner

    This is a really interesting perspective: I put pretty much this argument to a recent IFRA/BSP conference and it received very little sympathy (the main counter argument being the fear-factor). ...
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    Re: IFRA-safe wormwood equivalent?

    I wrote the IFRA regulation post here (duplicated and maintained on my blog too) and I can assure you that wherever else you may have seen it, it wasnít there. Google doesnít Ďback upí anything it...
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    Re: IFRA-safe wormwood equivalent?

    Thank you, Iím glad youíre enjoying it!
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    Re: Forming acetals

    I didnít mean to suggest that the Schiffís Base was turned into an acetal by the GC process - that would indeed be surprising - however Schiffís Bases (as they are correctly called: all SBs are...
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    Re: IFRA-safe wormwood equivalent?

    Hear from where?

    I have a fragrance (Artemis) built around the oil of Artemisia absinthium (the species most usually meant by wormwood, but be careful there are a great many artemisia species...
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    Re: Can't find Poucher's book online

    Strawberry Furanone is a very good call - itís excellent - however it is also very powerful, very sweet and very long-lasting, all of which need to be taken into account when using it. Offsetting...
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    Re: Very simple accords?

    If there is something in particular you are looking for that Hermitage donít have please let me know - by updating the thread on our collaboration or by PM - as I may be able to arrange for it to be...
  13. Many thanks to Clare for managing to make my...

    Many thanks to Clare for managing to make my half-formed thoughts and conversation sound like a structured essay and to Grant for publishing it.

    Clare was a lovely interviewer so this was fun to...
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    Re: Grojsman Accord

    The magic of this accord, and the reason it is incorporated into so many modern fragrances, is its versatility: both in terms of the range of other things it will work with and the variations upon it...
  15. Re: First Post - Questions regarding tenacity, vapor pressure, and max use %

    I do agree with David about this - smell, smell and smell again - itís the best way to learn how to use an ingredient. Dip a smelling strip, date and time noted on the strip just before it goes into...
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    Re: Newbie Question ..making scents

    You may also like to have a look at some of the posts on my blog, such as this one on blending and this one on the different kinds of extract.

    As you will see from the second link you can indeed...
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    Re: Can't find Poucher's book online

    JCE is one of my heroís, as revealed in my interview with Clare, but even so when I made my own strawberry accord I confess I used some C-16 too . . .
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    Re: Can't find Poucher's book online

    So far as I remember Poucher does not list a strawberry accord, however Jean-Claude Ellena does provide one in his Diary of a Nose. Like all the accords in the book it is just a suggestion of the...
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    Re: Help needed for a Woody Male ;)

    I hesitate to suggest quantities because that way Iím making the perfume, not you. However many of the materials in your existing blend are quite powerful and most of the suggestions to soften them...
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    Re: Anti hero

    These all work and so does Glucam P20, but the problem with all of them is that they tend to Ďdullí the fragrance so in addition Iíve found you need something to put the brightness back - extra...
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    Re: Forming acetals

    Keep in mind that whatever it is you had the GC done on, might not have contained these materials in the first place: often odd products like this appear as an artefact of the analysis process...
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    Re: EO dilution is cloudy

    In my experience this problem occurs quite often with certain oils and juniper is one of the worst. Actually Iím looking into getting hold of some rectified juniper oil with some of the pinenes...
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    Re: Help needed for a Woody Male ;)

    A couple of extra thoughts, I would use benzyl salicylate (which you have) to smooth it out a bit and would certainly thin down the naturals with some diffusive synthetics like cedramber, timbersilk...
  24. Re: IFRA, difference between tea absolute and CO2?

    If you look at the relevant standard, it lists among other synonyms ďCamellia sinensis leaf extractĒ so I think it is safe to assume that using CO2 extracts is also covered by the standard. As David...
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    Re: Grojsman Accord

    Just quickly as Iíve a lot of work on today, but I think Iíve managed to be slightly misleading in the interview (it really was done as an interview, recorded and then written up, which is not how...
  26. Many congratulations to Liz on the much...

    Many congratulations to Liz on the much anticipated launch of Papillion!
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    Re: Ethyl linalyl acetate?

    This description does sound more like ethyl acetate than ethyl linalyl acetate, which I would say is more bergamot and less lavender than linalyl acetate.
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    Re: Iso E Super Price...?

    I actually did buy a whole drum of Iso E Super at one point and the price worked out at a couple of pence per gram. Amazingly itís all gone now and I wasnít able to buy another at a similar price so...
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    Re: Ambergris in the UK

    Sorry to have been a bit slow to get to this. I do buy Ambergris fairly regularly, though the largest piece Iíve bought so far was only one tenth the size of this one so not sure I can run to it,...
  30. Re: complete newbie, which starter kit please.

    My palette now runs to about 1000 different materials so Iím not sure posting the list is a good plan - I think Basenotes might object - and anyway it isnít something fun to read.

    Despite this I...
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    Re: Alcoholic notes

    I guess it depends on the booze youíre after. Davana is good for giving a sort of mulled-wine effect that can be pushed in other directions depending on the rest of the blend. There are also what...
  32. Re: Meeting IFRA Standards Using Fragrance Oils

    The answers to both these questions are in the initial post in the thread here and also in the IFRA Compliance Summary on my blog. At the beginning of the list of ingredients covered by a Standard...
  33. Re: Methyl heptine carbonate methyl octine carbonate

    Iíd start with a like-for-like replacement: undecavertol is also pretty powerful stuff. You may find you need to use a little more but that would be a good place to start. Undecavertol is what I...
  34. Re: Meeting IFRA Standards Using Fragrance Oils

    There are two conventional approaches: the supplier may provide an IFRA certificate to the fragrance finisher (if it was intended as a consumer product) stating it is IFRA compliant within certain...
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    Sticky: Re: List of 100 Aromachemicals

    These are, I believe, the final list of 100 along with my suggestions for breaking them up into four equal sized orders of 25 ACs.

    100 Essential Aroma Chemicals

    Aldehyde C10 3
    Aldehyde...
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    Sticky: Re: List of 100 Aromachemicals

    These are not currently working (they go to a disabled dropbox location).
  37. Re: Three new perfume formulations added: Apple Fresh, Jasmine Musk and Narcotic Love Potion

    Thank you, thatís very kind.
  38. Re: Resins, sand and tinctures in general

    The key thing here is consistency. With most materials it isn’t necessary to weigh the residue because it will be similar each time. I’d suggest that if 50% of your galbanum was rubbish you might...
  39. Re: Hermitage Oils and Pell Wall Join Forces

    I accessed the site a couple of times over the weekend and have just checked again now: all seems to be working, not sure why youíre having trouble but the site doesnít appear to be down.
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    Re: Deep, leathery vanilla

    Extracts for food are normally "hydroglyolic" = useless for perfumery. Either dilute an absolute or make / buy a tincture: it will cost more but it will work.
  41. Re: Notes that have a sparkling/tingling effect

    It's difficult: you can use a small amount of cinnamon leaf, bark or aldehyde, supplement with the nitrile David describes (IFRA limit 0.1% ish) and with alpha-methyl cinnamaldehyde (IFRA limit 1.6%...
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    Re: Deep, leathery vanilla

    Either real vanilla absolute (much more leathery than vanillin or any of the recreations), a tincture from the type of pod you like or, perhaps most effective a combination of one of those with...
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    Re: ciis-iii-hexanol/Leaf Acetate

    No, that will be the aldehyde: bananas donít have to comply with IFRA you see . . .
  44. Re: Hermitage Oils and Pell Wall Join Forces

    Exaltenone is a lovely musk and the two combine nicely together but Exaltone is, to me, a vastly more interesting material: softly rounded, animalic and potent. Exaltenone is creamier, less animalic...
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    Re: ciis-iii-hexanol/Leaf Acetate

    This is exactly right - those two acetates are just alternate names for each other - you may also need to know that the Leaf Aldehyde cis-3-hexenal is on the IFRA prohibited list for fragrances,...
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    Re: Adventures in diluting crystals...

    This was my thought too - what you have are 20% solutions - you can of course dilute them with a further 4g of ethanol and thus end up with 10% if you wish. However both ethyl vanillin and ethyl...
  47. Re: Benzoin question, fenugreek curiosity, and the wild wonderful world of ionones

    Youíre quite right about the economic circumstances of the time of course, but I think you can actually draw the opposite conclusion from it: remember that although now alpha and beta ionone are...
  48. Re: Hermitage Oils and Pell Wall Join Forces

    So of those:

    Myrcene was requested earlier in this thread
    ethyl fenchol is an amazing material that works brilliantly with geosmin to give a damp-soil effect
    Caryophyllene and Humulene (isomers...
  49. Re: Benzoin question, fenugreek curiosity, and the wild wonderful world of ionones

    Not sure where Perkin fits in but Bedoukian credits Tiemann and Kruger who published in 1893, though that may not have been the earliest work because there is a Haarmann & Reimer patent (German...
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    Re: frankincense accords

    It is possible to obtain a frankincense resin absolute (a glossary of the relevant terms is here) which is I think what youíre after but as it melts at about 75 centigrade and at room temperature is...
  51. Re: Notes that have a sparkling/tingling effect

    If it matters, that will almost certainly put you outside the IFRA standards however: cinnamon bark is virtually impossible to use in anything with skin contact without falling foul of the standards...
  52. Re: Hermitage Oils and Pell Wall Join Forces

    PEA can come from several sources. The synthetic is also produced on a very large scale, which means, if you buy enough of it it gets very cheap.

    The natural version is never produced in large...
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    Re: frankincense accords

    Have you tried the frankincense (olibanum in perfume industry-speak) resinoid instead of the EO? Itís much less medicinal and much more incense.
  54. Re: Benzoin question, fenugreek curiosity, and the wild wonderful world of ionones

    The benzoin question is an interesting one, personally I think I would suggest you go with a cheaper option for now, although benzoin isnít the easiest thing to dilute, it isnít one of the most...
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    Re: Jasmin 50

    Iíve never smelt the Perfumerís World sandalwood, but I can tell you that the blend I made that is for sale at Hermitage does not smell like cheap amrys / cedar oil: you could either try that or make...
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    Re: Narcotic florals

    Agreed, except that there are some tinctures, like rose petals for example, that are best made really quickly - no more than an hour on the alcohol in that case - or they spoil. The great majority...
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    Re: Jasmin 50

    Iíve not tried any of those, but I have prepared some of the Appell formulas and found them very interesting. Iím not entirely sure I agree with the theory his book proposes but the results seemed...
  58. Re: Notes that have a sparkling/tingling effect

    Ah! OK if your formula is in PG that would certainly explain dead top-notes. Try ethanol instead and youíll almost certainly see an improvement, PG has a huge flattening effect when used as the...
  59. Re: Hello, newb wants tips on copyright.

    One of the things I consult in besides perfumery is intellectual property and this advice is sound. Most large corporations also have people (or bots) trawling the internet for use of their...
  60. Re: Metallic, aquatic, & ozonic ingredients

    Thanks Paul.

    At Hermitage we also have a whole section of Green and Marine materials where you will find both those two plus things like Floralozone, Dimetol, Nerol and Geosmin that also might...
  61. Re: Need Help with Solubility for Helional/Methyl Anthranilate Schiff Base

    This is one of the new materials weíve just made available at Hermitage, so I had to deal with this recently.

    The stuff itself is much harder and drier than the TGSC entry would suggest - ours is...
  62. Re: Notes that have a sparkling/tingling effect

    I donít think benzyl salicylate will do what you are looking for, at least not on its own. Usually when people talk about tingling and fizz in a perfume itís the aliphatic aldehydes that are meant. ...
  63. Re: Vetiveryl & Patchoulyl Acetates - Natural or Synth and who cares?

    I agree - certainly Ventos are not trying to defraud anyone - all the details are right there on their website for all to see after all.

    There are plenty of people out there knowingly trying to...
  64. Re: Vetiveryl & Patchoulyl Acetates - Natural or Synth and who cares?

    The only things I feel uncomfortable about using are those that are taken, in an unsustainable way, from endangered species (such as rosewood oil) or those which involve what I regard as unacceptable...
  65. Re: Hermitage Oils and Pell Wall Join Forces

    I have all three and they are indeed, as Paul says, each different animals. I investigated them all when I was putting together my Sticky Leather Sky fragrance but in the end I didnít use any of...
  66. Re: Hermitage Oils and Pell Wall Join Forces

    Sorry, should have responded to this, Myrcene I have in hand and hope weíll be able to add soon, Spirogalbanone Syringol Iíve not been asked for before but are an interesting possibility.
    ...
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    Re: Neryl - Geranyl acetate

    Yep, neryl acetate smell slightly wetter and also slightly more rosy. As you probably know they are isomers of the same molecule.
  68. Re: Dewy Green note any suggestions besides Rosalva?

    Hermitage have it as a 1% dilution (prepared by yours truly) which is probably more economic than anywhere on the TGSC list unless you are planning on making a few hundred gallons of your fragrance...
  69. Re: Vetiveryl & Patchoulyl Acetates - Natural or Synth and who cares?

    I guess that depends on how you interpret Ďtraditional methodsí doesnít it? I wouldnít call it a natural, but others might.

    Interestingly Arctander writes about it in his treatise on naturals not...
  70. Re: Hermitage Oils and Pell Wall Join Forces

    Um, no, Iíd have to agree she doesnít . . . youíll have to ask Adam what the thinking was there, I only write the stuff!

    Perhaps he just enjoyed the pictures and wanted to feature them? I think...
  71. Re: Vetiveryl & Patchoulyl Acetates - Natural or Synth and who cares?

    Itís treated with acetic anhydride so that the relevant alcohols become acetates.
  72. Sticky: Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    and don’t put sweet almond oil in either!
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    Re: Choice of Scales in the balance.

    Take a look at this post on my blog, where I both recommend some and, more to the point, give you a list of criteria to check whatever you decide to buy.
  74. Re: How to stop fooling around with a formula and leave it alone?

    Oh well glad to have raised a smile anyway! But in that case why not keep tinkering and enjoy yourself?
  75. Re: Dewy Green note any suggestions besides Rosalva?

    I really doubt the acetate is what you are looking for: to me itís all green banana and no trace of dew. A possibility is one of those super-power ingredients that you need to use in the tiniest...
  76. Re: How to stop fooling around with a formula and leave it alone?

    Honestly I think there is one simple answer to this: sell it!

    Once youíve sold a fragrance with a given formula there is a massive disincentive to mess about with it. Unless of course you put it...
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    Re: Narcotic florals

    2.5ml :shocked:
  78. Hermitage Oils and Pell Wall Join Forces

    It feels like it was a million years ago now, but it was really only a year and a month ago that I made the announcement reproduced below. As luck would have it that fell in the dreaded ĎHuddler...
  79. Re: Vetiveryl & Patchoulyl Acetates - Natural or Synth and who cares?

    The usual rule is that if it is produced from a natural source by physical means only then it’s natural. If chemical processes are used then it isn’t, however there have always been some accepted...
  80. Re: Dewy Green note any suggestions besides Rosalva?

    Have you tried Helional? Also consider adding some nerol to your mix.
  81. Re: Any idea what this wood note aroma chemical is?

    For a guess this is a material called Methyl cedryl ketone (aka Vertofix) which is widely used and can come across as harsh if not blended properly with other things. Itís a good fixative and, with...
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    Re: Applying labels

    I strongly recommend lamination. Many fragrance materials are the same or similar to solvents used for many inks and waterproof labels are not the same as alcohol proof much less perfume proof.
    ...
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    Re: Narcotic florals

    Just wandering off-topic here slightly but Iíve been meaning to do a tincture of propolis for ages - itís a fantastic scent straight from the hive - very complex and quite wonderful. I dread to...
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    Re: How many molecules?

    Interesting. Arctander, writing in the early 60s about aroma chemicals, produced 3102 monographs. There have of course been a great many newly developed materials since then that he didnít write...
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    Re: Jasmin 50

    Other than making your own with the formula helpfully supplied by Kennel No5 (nice idea for a name btw) you could always use either another jasmine recreation or even a real jasmine absolute as an...
  86. Re: Advice on containing aroma chemicals

    Just to pick up on these, there are three different chemicals plus mixtures all with similar names that are traditionally used in creating leather scents:

    Isobutyl quinolene (CAS number...
  87. Re: Making A Formula From A GC/MS Analysis

    But which batch? ;-)
  88. Replies
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    Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    In my experience ambroxan / Ambrofix / cetalox don't go off at all.

    I have noticed that many people seem to have a variable ability to smell it, especially in pure form. I suspect what may be...
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    Re: Musk anosmia among perfumers

    I'm not sure whether this trick works for everyone: I've never noticed the effect myself. It is worth noting that you can overdose with zinc though so experiment with care, especially if your normal...
  90. Re: Question about musky Ambergris absolute

    It's sold out anyway, I just meant if happened to be in the area you could drop by Les Senteurs for a sniff towards the end of the day.

    Sorry about the jet Nizan, mine's on the blink too ;-)
  91. Replies
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    Re: truest ambergris

    Could very well be: you'd need the IFF product number to check but it makes sense they'd sell that version. They don't say what the dilution is done with: I'm guessing DPG as it's mostly ethanol...
  92. Re: Question about musky Ambergris absolute

    For those in or able to get to London I'm teaching a perfumery workshop tomorrow and will have some real ambergris pieces (stones if you like) and tincture available to smell (though not to use - too...
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    Re: truest ambergris

    About 6 months or so - warm & constantly agitated - so it it's not quite ready yet.



    Every tincture is different so that's hard to answer but the oliffac ģ is stronger than most tinctures,...
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    Re: Help with cestrum accord

    but for a trace of a leather note - youíll need 0.01% - or less, or an alternative source of the leather note. Just because Phenol is in the natural doesnít mean you have to add it to your...
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    Sticky: Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Iím just adding here something that seems to come up quite often when people are trying to work out how to read a formula, work out how to do dilutions, blending or similar things. Iíve linked to a...
  96. Re: Question about musky Ambergris absolute

    Oh! I remember those now: I notice the advertisement says



    and I say, in my very best pantomime voice:
  97. Re: Question about musky Ambergris absolute

    The only way to be certain would be to have an analysis done, which is itself not cheap.

    Musk cube? Not something Iíve ever come across, except as a form of incense for burning.
  98. Re: Question about musky Ambergris absolute

    Iíve never smelled a real ambergris that had notes of fruity-musk and vanilla. That sounds more like one of the ďamberĒ fragrances that are usually based on labdanum and vanillin.

    What form does...
  99. Replies
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    Re: Solvent Extraction of Fruits?

    There are quite a lot of fruit extractions made, but they tend to be for flavour use rather than for perfumery. Accordingly they are often in water or water containing solutions, which besides being...
  100. Re: Tips And Tricks For Lowering The Price Of Your Formula

    I can imagine that was a deeply frustrating thing to have to do. From a regulatory point of view there will be even more of that now with all the new labelling requirements (from the EU), the...
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