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  1. Re: Cinalkex, Cinnamic Alcohol replacer, what is the replacement ratio?

    I wonder if there are some materials pairs that at the low end of typical use range will have about equal effect at one ratio, but a the high end would seem about equal at a quite different ratio.
    ...
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    Re: Weighing scales recommendations

    I am very happy with this one, after my far-more-expensive Ohaus suffered damage, and a differing budget model proved unsatisfactory:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/183636099561

    I based my choice on...
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    Re: Single Best Naturals

    Have you compared Hermitage's with a few others? (As I understood the idea of the thread was to list the best of various naturals tried from different suppliers.)

    And also the country of origin...
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    Re: Single Best Naturals

    One of my favorite materials years back was White Champaca Leaf oil (aka magnolia leaf oil, or White Champa) from White Lotus Aromatics, which was absolutely fantastic. I generally find getting a...
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    Re: online searches and excel

    Emraan, yes, you are right but one more thing will likely be needed. Some items that aren't diluted above may have to be. Depending on your scale, it may not be possible to weigh amounts such as...
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    Re: online searches and excel

    It is 9000 of whatever you want.

    Do you want to make 10 grams for example?

    Then each unit is 10/9000 g.

    Example, formula calls for 180 parts (out of 9000) of an ingredient, you use 10 grams...
  7. Re: Diluting a sample that is already diluted.

    1) You can get more mileage from your materials by diluting to some certain point. As a simple but not quite realistic example, let's say you have 30 ingredients that are all of medium odor strength,...
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    Re: "Female Human" Scent?

    I agree! :)

    Btw, facts I didn't mention from the above article included that quite few compounds were nearly ubiquitous in the over-900 subjects studied, perhaps 35 compounds, and I think there...
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    Re: Lemon Accord

    Well thank you, but in perfumery it really isn't, perfumery really requires tremendous amounts of time doing (and of course making the time productive) and while I had a stretch that was pretty good...
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    Re: "Female Human" Scent?

    If I were doing this, which I may after some other things, I'd take this approach:

    Start with the lactones. I already had an association of these lactones with the hair and have used them in some...
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    Re: "Female Human" Scent?

    For any wanting to dig deeper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6720966/table/molecules-24-02964-t001/?report=objectonly

    Human organic volatiles were measured for both urban and rural...
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    Re: "Female Human" Scent?

    Let's see if a chart from the first paper I linked above will post decently...

    No, it did not.

    The link for the chart is...
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    Re: "Female Human" Scent?

    I don't have a good answer for you but these papers may be interesting or informative:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2359862/ (I really have to wonder if the 1-day washout was...
  14. Re: If you use beverage alcohol, can you sell your perfume without liquor tax? An argument in favor

    To paraphrase the TV while I've talked a lot with lawyers I am not one, but my understanding is that legally only certain things are denaturants, and the vast majority of aromamaterials legally are...
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    Re: Room spray with 3 ingredients

    Sooner or later it was bound to happen, the run has been like 50-0 in the other direction so far! :)
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    Re: Room spray with 3 ingredients

    Nothing is going to grow in 30% alcohol, with regards to the formula you wat to use.

    I have not looked into whether anything grows in over 50% butoxydiglycol and no water or not. I would have to...
  17. If you use beverage alcohol, can you sell your perfume without liquor tax? An argument in favor

    Not saying so much for the practical, as most just buy denatured alcohol in the first place, but there have been questions about using beverage or food grade 190 proof alcohol.

    If it remains...
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    Re: Room spray with 3 ingredients

    Somewhat interestingly the Code of Federal Regulations isn't backing me up or is refuting me on MEK being a denaturant (...
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    Re: Room spray with 3 ingredients

    I got the nearly 1% MEK from that. I meant the alcohol portion of the intended mixture, which is substantial, being an alcohol which is almost 1% MEK.
  20. Re: Fundamental notes that can be found in (almost) every perfume

    As the list of materials commonly used would be very long, I suggest a self-exploration method:

    At http://www.perfumersearch.com/ you can find lots of formulas either by entering a starting...
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    Re: Room spray with 3 ingredients

    The purpose of the methyl ethyl ketone is to be extremely nasty and make the alcohol undrinkable (to denature it.)

    Bitrex alone is not considered to accomplish this.

    Personally (I just dislike...
  22. Re: Good formulas to help a beginner get better?

    The numbers will add up to something, often 1000 or close to it, but sometimes entirely different numbers,

    If choosing to work with a formula, it can be entered into a spreadsheet and converted to...
  23. Re: Rubbing alcohol is fine for making perfumes

    Yes, for example I hate the smell of t-butanol and so did not want to use perfumer's alcohol that contained it, and I could smell it in the alcohol when by itself.

    But on discovering that Paul...
  24. Re: How to organzie oils and aroma chemicals?

    Paul! I will have to show that picture to my wife. Then she won't think so badly of me on this point. :)

    (She already knows you are a genius, so seeing this could assure her that some jumbling...
  25. Re: How to organzie oils and aroma chemicals?

    At some point, for sure, there must be a computer or really good paper inventory system.

    Sadly, I just check my e-mail to see if/when I ordered something, if I'm not sure whether I have it or not...
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    Re: Milk Lactone Solubility

    Well, sadly, solubility is often poorly measured and poorly discussed. Certainly the word "insoluble" was incorrect in the writeup you found.

    I like to say that at least in the United States the...
  27. Re: How to organzie oils and aroma chemicals?

    Exactly, on both.

    Also I notice I forgot the woods categories and subcategories in my post, and I do have sandalwoods separated out from other woods. It is nice to have such things together and,...
  28. Re: How to organzie oils and aroma chemicals?

    I have absolutely no good method so will share only my main bad ones. Part of my problem is that my present situation requires everything not being worked on to be packed into small sealed...
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    Re: Group buy for GC/MS

    You are still trying to get people to contact you about your plan to be paid.

    In my personal opinion you have shown yourself incorrigible as a spammer and so are now added to the Ignore list as I...
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    Re: Group buy for GC/MS

    Thank you!

    By no means was I wishing to dissuade you from the group, we'd love you to stay to talk perfuming. :)

    EDIT: It wasn't just having the link to your website that was the problem. I...
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    Re: Group buy for GC/MS

    I think your posts are spam and not permitted:



    and that you should delete them. (By which I mean, edit them to remove the self-promotion.)

    Especially as your very first post on this forum...
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    Re: Milk Lactone Solubility

    Omg... "I haven't smelled it but I recommend not using it because (chemically-talk)." I am paraphrasing but that's the situation.

    Not to mention the other nonsense.

    Can there be a greater...
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    Re: Group buy for GC/MS

    Are you looking to be paid? You said there would be a "cost" for using what you propose to provide.
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    Re: Group buy for GC/MS

    You want people to pay a price, to you, so they can trade?

    If so, begone, spammer.
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    Re: Recreating Bleu De Chanel

    To some extent this is like asking, I haven't really learned to play musical instruments yet, nor to compose, nor to hear music and then write down accurately what notes I heard, but I want to be...
  36. Re: A most dry/dried musk at low volatility?

    Norlimbanol is dry and low volatility, if totally not being a musk is okay to the question.

    On the "dry" matter it appears my perceptions don't match others. According to TGSC quite a few things...
  37. Re: A most dry/dried musk at low volatility?

    That may depend on the person!

    I don't find it equivalent at all to any musk.
  38. Re: A most dry/dried musk at low volatility?

    Ambrox Super isn't properly a musk either.

    I don't know of a musk I would call "dry."
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    Re: Old time perfume

    By the way for anyone who has tried musk ketone and then fell off of using it for whatever reason (I am one of those):

    I know there are a lot of old formulas that use musk ketone in high amounts,...
  40. Re: pre make your alcohol. so what actually should be put inside?

    It cannot hurt and in some cases may help to add BHT and Vitamin E in amounts such as mentioned above, as antioxidants.

    The others, I would not use across the board if at all.

    In particular, on...
  41. Re: pre make your alcohol. so what actually should be put inside?

    There is nothing wrong with premaking a stabilizing package, though I don't do it myself, as what I little I do that ends up commercial goes into already-stabilized products, but if doing so BHT...
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    Re: Old time perfume

    Or is this a cultural overlay?

    I suspect it's entirely likely that in say the 1920's when the perceived most attractive young women, especially when dressed to the nines, were wearing perfumes...
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    Re: Old time perfume

    But ambrettolide is a musk. (Or should I say, the ambrettolides as there are at least two similar materials sold as such.)

    Nor is there anything new about use of ambrettolide.

    Maybe something...
  44. Re: Boosting Cashmeran ( And other restricted notes )

    I suppose there could be some ladies who shave their arms, let's say, yet like to apply some of their EdT there. But my guess is the manufacturers need not give the warning, only not sell it as an...
  45. Re: Boosting Cashmeran ( And other restricted notes )

    It seems that there are many posts where there is confusion on how to interpret IFRA limits (for those choosing to do so.)

    Perfume to be applied to non-shaved skin falls under Category 4.

    (The...
  46. Re: Changes in the perception of the mix depending on the ambient temperature.

    I have never thought about this problem or read insights into it so this is just half-baked:

    Imagine the temperature getting reasonabley close to the lowest boiling point material in your mix. it...
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    Re: That is IMPOSSIBLE ?!? Oakmoss gcms

    Many times if I see something I think could be of interest or help on a topic, I pick an existing thread on the same topic to put it on rather than create a new one.

    Not all my posts are always...
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    Re: That is IMPOSSIBLE ?!? Oakmoss gcms

    I also learned from your thread because before ever seeing it, I never thought as to how the oak moss was extracted, and then on a paper mentioned in this thread, I saw that the researchers included...
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    Re: Musk Ambrette

    Interesting article with a reason suggesting why: https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/115/17/E3950.full.pdf
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    Re: ThePerfumery

    I haven't yet gotten a use out of a wax but I think that's only because having so many other things on the plate.

    I've bought three from two different sources -- jasmine (super pleased), mimosa...
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    Re: That is IMPOSSIBLE ?!? Oakmoss gcms

    Not exactly what you asked for, but an exceptional article on oakmoss which I think will be of interest or help to many:
    ...
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    Re: Old time perfume

    I expect few of us have smelled any commercial old time perfume that didn't have one or more of isolates such as linalool and geraniol, maybe linalool acetate and geranyl acetate,...
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    Re: Ethyl malthol

    It had thermostatic control via a probe, but that broke and I have not replaced it. Instead I use the thermostatic control of the plate itself, and have cut a cardboard box to be about perfectly...
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    Re: Ethyl malthol

    Steric hindrance maybe from the ortho methyls?

    I don't know, beyond me. I am aiming for easy, you have moved to the very advanced!
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    Re: Ethyl malthol

    My other thought was to keep on the hotplate for 3 or 4 weeks to equilibrate (maybe longer than needed) but I wanted to have some fun, I have never done a microwave-assisted reaction and the thought...
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    Re: Ethyl malthol

    Btw on the microwave subject, I am hoping to soon do some microwave-assisted Schiff base reactions, aiming not for 100% conversion but to quickly equilibrate equimolar aldehyde/methyl anthranilate in...
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    Re: Ethyl malthol

    No, my mistake, you were 100% clear and I mis-read! :)
  58. Re: Ethyl phenylacetate / patchoulyl acetate / Aftel ????

    As no one had a reason why I might be wrong on the ethyl phenylacetate, I did decide to write the Aftel people.

    The first reply I received was just a statement that this is what their supplier has...
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    Re: Ethyl malthol

    Btw, Norm, ethyl maltol is not one of those molecules that might isomerize in the microwave, so the advice I gave on not generally using microwave without knowing the specific case is totally...
  60. Re: Where to get same size photo of perfumes for website?

    I am confident Paul did not mean you can't use a photograph which isn't copyrighted or which the copyright owner allows the use of. For example, the perfume manufacturer may have stock photos which...
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    Re: Ethyl malthol

    The only scientific journal article I readily found was pay-per-view.

    One supplier ( http://www.haihangindustry.com/newss/how-much-ethyl-maltol-to-add.html ) reposts data saying one gram dissolves...
  62. Re: Where to get same size photo of perfumes for website?

    Which post said this? I did not see one that did, and it's not the case.

    But one does need to have a photo which is either in the public domain (no one has legal ownership rights they are...
  63. Re: Hmmm, What makes Ammonia? I have an Ammonia note appearing in the bottle headspace.

    A couple of thoughts, Paul:

    In solution, ammonia is going to smell as NH3, but is (at any given moment) non-volatile as NH4+. Presence of an acid of course is going to tend strongly to have nearly...
  64. Re: Hmmm, What makes Ammonia? I have an Ammonia note appearing in the bottle headspace.

    Thank you, Paul. Great to know, and for me, I think it very likely that ion resin information may really be important for me in future work in another field.
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    Re: Ethanol not mixing oil

    If I said that I did not mean it!

    So far as I know all essential oils used in perfumery dissolve adequately in ethanol, provided it is at least 190 proof (95%.)
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    Re: NDA in perfume making?

    I have done many NDA's, in a different field, and never encountered anything like that.

    Sometimes there's a back and forth on whose NDA to use, and an honest party meeting honest objection to...
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    Re: Tauerade / Irone Alpha

    It is rather premium priced at Pell Wall. Despite need for international shipping, you may do considerably better at Perfumer Supply House.

    Among things I have, I don't have a substitute.
  68. Re: IFF Captive, until now, available to us at PSH! (Edenolide)

    You're very welcome, Dallas! :)
  69. Re: Stranded with 10 kg of aroma chemicals

    I would split it into alternating signals of jasmine abs on theory of being as appealing as possible per kg, and, for higher impact if the jasmine didn't carry that far, lavender aldehyde as it...
  70. Re: IFF Captive, until now, available to us at PSH! (Edenolide)

    Welcome to my ignore list. You are insulting and the content of your post is frankly foolish.

    It is absurd to claim Arcadi Boix Camps never smelled it. Since I've had it for two months (since the...
  71. Re: The Deepest (Nondescript) Aroma Available?

    I will definitely love hearing what Paul has to say on this!!! :)

    I only got civetone recently (Firmenich Civettone) and don't have a final formula with it. But I have been using it up to 25 ppt....
  72. Re: IFF Captive, until now, available to us at PSH! (Edenolide)

    I thought I did say! :)

    But I did do it by saying quite little and then saying I seconded the descriptions Arcadi said (except for of course being unable to second his reports of specific...
  73. Re: The Deepest (Nondescript) Aroma Available?

    On further thought, I don't think you can get both these at the same time.

    As Paul says, every aromamaterial can be described, at least by a Perfumer who has worked with them and gotten to know...
  74. Re: IFF Captive, until now, available to us at PSH! (Edenolide)

    As for myself, my perception might be individual but I am solidly convinced by it and most likely will use it in every feminine formula I ever do from here on out unless there's some specific reason...
  75. IFF Captive, until now, available to us at PSH! (Edenolide)

    As Arcadi is always more colorful than I am, not to mention being at a way way way higher level, here's what he has said about Edenolide, at the time one of those materials we couldn't get but he...
  76. Re: Ethyl phenylacetate / patchoulyl acetate / Aftel ????

    On the patchoulyl acetate, I don't doubt that there are suppliers calling it natural to acetylate patchouli e.o.

    I don't know what specific standards if any are used in the fragrance materials...
  77. Ethyl phenylacetate / patchoulyl acetate / Aftel ????

    Yesterday I happened to post an anecdote of remembering painfully overpaying for linalool ex ho wood from Aftel. Having come back to my mind after a very long time of not checking, and after checking...
  78. Re: The Deepest (Nondescript) Aroma Available?

    Not non-descript, but to me the "deepest" note by far, giving to me a resonance that I had though of like a very low pipe organ note, very much feeling it in the chest, and "subwoofer" is fair enough...
  79. Re: When it says 'Vegetable Emulsifier' in the ingredients of a room spray- what does it usually mea

    In practice though in a simple system such as water, hydrophobic material, and any ordinary lecithin and nothing else lecithin is a miserable emulsifier.

    It generally needs to work in concert with...
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    Re: Lemon Accord

    I'd also venture to say that even at an early stage one should have both the linalool ordinarily sold, which is racemic (both L and D) and have L-linalool, as there really is a substantial...
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    Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    Btw, while not on the subject of synthetic, on the subject of sandalwood I just came on this interesting information on natural constituents within sandalwood:
    ...
  82. Re: Concentrated perfume oil + FCO = weak perfume ? -_-

    Very important point.
  83. Replies
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    Re: That is IMPOSSIBLE ?!? Oakmoss gcms

    The second page of the Perfumer & Flavorist has the percent quantities, from two methods of extraction.

    It does not cut and paste well (I don't wish to correct the problems) but the substances...
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    Re: Vortex mixing?

    I have only ever used vortex mixers for test or sample tubes, but essentially there's a base onto which you press the tube, and it gyrates about and gives quite good mixing by gyrating the base of...
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    Re: That is IMPOSSIBLE ?!? Oakmoss gcms

    And there we have it: the Perfumer & Flavorist (and perhaps others) is free if having a subscription, which is free.
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    Re: Dowanol DPnP / DPMA

    Hello Josee,

    How do you find it better? I have used neither and so would appreciate your information.

    I am not a fan of the Augeo Clean Multi: while its odor strength is quite low, and I'm...
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    Re: Vortex mixing?

    If sprays actually are different from each other, vortex mixing will not help you nor any other variant of mixing. It would be a formulation problem causing separation to occur.

    There is no risk...
  88. Re: When it says 'Vegetable Emulsifier' in the ingredients of a room spray- what does it usually mea

    You have bought from a company that does not follow legal labeling requirements.

    There is no telling what they have used from that deliberately ambiguous phrase that has no standard meaning.
    ...
  89. Thread: Replacer

    by Bill Roberts
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    Re: Replacer

    Are you asking what combination of other aromachemicals might smell like a close match to Vetikon?

    I have never tried. I have Vetikon but don't happen to use it. Not that there's anything wrong...
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    Re: That is IMPOSSIBLE ?!? Oakmoss gcms

    As a start on this one, not having quantitative of an absolute but having components and references to look further: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/ffj.1916 ,...
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    Re: Lemon Accord

    Historically, the first thing that was known was whether a solution of a molecule rotated light left (laevo) or right (dextro.) Accordingly, stereoisomers were originally learned this way.

    Later,...
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    Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    Differences in perception are indeed very interesting, but also fundamentally hard to gain knowledge of!

    At the risk of sadly overposting more than is appropriate on one thread:

    Due to the...
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    Re: Lemon Accord

    Indeed.

    When people post incorrect information as part of overall perfuming efforts, as an element in a good discussion, that's one thing and discussion can help everyone. But when it's presented...
  94. Re: Do you reuse single-use syringes for decanting?

    In most cases an immediate three times rinse with 91% rubbing alcohol (just drawing into the plunger fully and pushing it all out) will clean the syringe well enough for repeated use, but when unsure...
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    Re: Lemon Accord

    If you want to add "lemon" to bergamot, I guess bergamot has enough alpha pinene, beta pinene, and gamma-terpinene already that you may not need to add more.

    If you want pure "natural" lemon by...
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    Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    It's a communications problem of mine that I often perceive and try to express what I perceived in terms that may have no agreed or precise perfuming meaning. To some extent I guess I have some...
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    Re: Lemon Accord

    S-limonene is in perfumery generally called L-limonene and is as easy to get as falling off of a chair.

    When actually making citrus accords it will be clear that having the correct limonene isomer...
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    Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    It's not bad at all as a component of a blend. I believe some experience a bit of a sour note from it, but I don't, and am perfectly glad to use some as part of a blend. To me it goes well with...
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    Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    If wanting distinct "sandalwood" note (you can get benefit while having less than this) I don't find any one synthetic sandalwood anything close to being able to make me think it could be sandalwood....
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    Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Hello Sergey!

    Russian is difficult to translate to English.

    This is what I do.

    I use https://translate.google.com twice. One time is from my language to the other language. The second time...
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Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000