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  1. Re: Formulas - numbers next to the ingrediants - meaning?

    As an example, picking this one as it was included in a formula recently discussed:

    https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/Images/sds/Key%20Accord%20Formula/orangeflower.pdf

    Terpineol alpha - 25...
  2. Re: Formulas - numbers next to the ingrediants - meaning?

    Glad it helped! :)
  3. Re: Formulas - numbers next to the ingrediants - meaning?

    They can be whatever weight you want.

    It's usually easier to sum the ingredients and if they don't add to 100, to 1000, or to whatever total weight you want, divide or multiply as needed.
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    Re: So I got my oakmoss. Now what?

    Not allowed by IFRA, which differs from not allowed period.
  5. Re: Beginner- is it possible to create your own fragrance oils?

    "Fragrance oil" = commercial product containing mostly a carrier and some amount of aromachemicals and possibly essential oils, generally cheaply made. For some reason I think many just starting out...
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    Re: So I got my oakmoss. Now what?

    It's still too cheap to be real, and the same company sells other clear fakes.
  7. Re: The art of Perfume vs. other arts: 5 Things I've Realized

    I"m sure, as you teach it, that you know more than me on it, but I wanted to add for those that read popular "physics" books that a tremendous amount of their content is misrepresentation and quite...
  8. Re: The art of Perfume vs. other arts: 5 Things I've Realized

    Yes, there are definitely times when Gould is in his own world! :)

    And in some cases maybe another place may suit us better!

    Regardless he is my overall favorite, but I mostly picked him...
  9. Re: What am I doing wrong? Cedar oils in an EO blend

    I feel that the main cause of nearly all of my early efforts being disasters is that due to having a limited supply of essential oils and, early on, using nothing but them, individual ingredients...
  10. Re: The art of Perfume vs. other arts: 5 Things I've Realized

    Just adding a little on the piano and synthesizer question (formerly a decent pianist and recording engineer):

    Hammers moving, flying freely as they do with no remaining connection to the finger,...
  11. Re: Diluting oils, and working with pure ingrediants

    First usually if wanting to make a 20% product, the great majority of materials used would not have been prediluted to 10%.

    Not that one may not be able to do it, but it's inconvenient.

    If...
  12. Re: Clove & Cinnamon in Old Fragrances -Littlle Discussion

    To that, at least for Orientals using these, I think add the fact that at the time, "Oriental" had a lot of mystique and interest, and these materials help a lot towards that effect.

    Perhaps also...
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    Re: Exaltone v. Exaltolide

    If money comfortably allows and you have all the very frequently used materials already then certainly yes.

    If budget and lacks of the current library require buying some materials but not others,...
  14. Re: Advice regarding the diluting of civet absolute

    I am not sure on the terminology you mean.

    The Robertet product is labeled as an absolute and doesn't need tincturing.

    I would understand extracting with ethanol and evaporating off the ethanol...
  15. Re: Creating Perfume vs Perfumers Apprentice Study Kits

    In no way denying your personal experience, but sharing the flip side: Susan has gone above and beyond for me and I couldn't be more pleased with her service.

    In one example, ANOTHER vendor had...
  16. Re: Advice regarding the diluting of civet absolute

    My Robertet Civet Absolute does not smell the same as the civet tinctures I have made and I wouldn't know what to add to it for it to do so. For some time I was not happy with Robertet Absolute but...
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    Re: Recreating a designer fragrance

    I don't, I am on limited funds.

    I have never achieved what I'd consider a hard-to-distinguish dupe. I don't think it's within my skill set to do so, despite being at it for what 8 years now I...
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    Re: Recreating a designer fragrance

    My wife, fortunately, believes I save money by coming up with a personal version of a commercial fragrance.

    The exact opposite is true.

    Unless going through quite a lot of bottles, cheaper to...
  19. Re: Advice regarding the diluting of civet absolute

    If you want to wait a bit, on my to-do list is reacting Robertet civet absolute with methyl anthranilate to, I hope, convert the skatole to the corresponding Schiff base, which should reduce fecal...
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    Re: Patchoulol question

    In general, because there is nothing to interfere with the packing of the crystal lattice, pure materials have a higher melting point than when impurities (which cannot fit properly into the crystal...
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    Re: Sylvamber Formulation

    For some materials that's true. Here, probably not, but mixing into a bottle means that what you have done can be reevaluated repeatedly, and also results will be consistent. Spreading on the forearm...
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    Re: Sylvamber Formulation

    I missed seeing that!

    Yes, absolutely!

    Now I've done a lot of "forearm testing" and it can have its uses but it's absolutely necessary to mix formulas in bottles/vials/whatever and evaluate the...
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    Re: Sylvamber Formulation

    I don't know why, but as the differences are there, I'd suggest labeling each mix and keeping going back to them over time and seeing what differences you do start to spot.

    Even better would be if...
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    Re: Sylvamber Formulation

    Probably many of us started in perfuming in a similar way. Myself, I saw that my wife and I have very similar tastes in perfume. I wasn't (and am still not) aware of any perfume (as opposed to...
  25. Re: Algorithmic Perfumery / robo-shop perfumes

    Hi Dana, I am by no means expert in it and have put in no time thinking about possible genetic algorithms for perfumes or whether that is a better approach compared to pattern recognition, nor...
  26. Re: Algorithmic Perfumery / robo-shop perfumes

    Can you share how you know there are no programs able to or in use to produce commercial formulas? You say it quite definitively.

    Or are you hinging on a distinction between intelligent automation...
  27. Re: Algorithmic Perfumery / robo-shop perfumes

    The illustration quoted was intended to be more for amusement and for the sake of illustrating that even the ultra-simplest of approaches can accomplish something which may smell decent. The...
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    Re: Patchoulol question

    Well for example "rhodinol" products are often described as isolates but no one compound makes up 95% or anything like it. (Typically I think citronellol + geraniol no more than 85% claimed.) But I...
  29. Re: Algorithmic Perfumery / robo-shop perfumes

    Within the major houses there are almost undoubtedly thousands of formulas on hand, even tens of thousands.

    And each will have claimed notes associated with it.

    It doesn't seem surprising to...
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    Re: Smell Sketches - Feb. 2020 - Hedione

    I hope I can do it this time! Presently spots on the weekend are all I can hope for, and for the last challenge, turned out there was no hope...

    I'd been interested already in the idea of a...
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    Re: Patchoulol question

    In the nutritional and cosmetic industries absolutely, if it is extracted from the plant with nothing added, which I understand to be the case.

    For perfumery I do not know industry nuances in...
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    Re: Patchoulol question

    It's bogus, which has happened before with this supplier, or is diluted, or is quite impure.
  33. Re: Galaxolide 50 smells like nail polish?

    Or, that it is neither.
  34. Re: Galaxolide 50 smells like nail polish?

    What is that one supplier?

    Have never experienced that.
  35. Re: Water-based perfume: (glycol) solvents comparison question

    Since your water percentage will be very high I would suggest using an emulsifier designed for essential oils. I have used only the Straetman's product but there are many:...
  36. Re: Water-based perfume: (glycol) solvents comparison question

    Probably not though it might have somewhat more solubilizing power for some compounds and somewhat less for others.

    I have used it in cosmetics but never tried using it as a solvent.

    Since your...
  37. Re: Identification of a particular musk ingredient

    Most likely non-existent and certainly generally not used these days in non-fine-fragrance commercial products and at most rare now even there.
  38. Re: The Alchemist Atelier - The Scent Creator // Opinions?

    No. You would be better off buying materials and blending yourself. This ties the buyer down completely needlessly to the company's own limited range of materials.
  39. Re: Where can I buy Ambreine (Labdanum extract)

    A great post on this: http://www.basenotes.net/threads/333323-Aroma-chemicals!?p=2959379&viewfull=1#post2959379

    Perfumers Apprentice sells the labdanum extract type.

    IMO, Aftelier has far, far...
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    Re: IFRA Restrictions in USA?

    Wow. I had not known that that had happened.

    It is a good example that the incompetent can accomplish bad things that the competent could scarcely conceive as plausibly likely other than if...
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    Re: Timbersilk and ISO E Super question

    Although personal opinion only, another thing to consider is while many fairly new to perfuming commonly feel "stronger is better" this is by no means already true, particularly as levels get higher...
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    Re: Linalool smelling Fishy

    You're very welcome!

    Susan (Creatingperfume.com) does have it, and it's sourced from Vigon! :)

    https://www.creatingperfume.com/images/SDS%20Sheet%20PDFs/Linalool_Synthetic_SDS.pdf
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    Re: Linalool smelling Fishy

    All three could be high or low quality or anywhere in-between. These three are different materials.

    The first being a natural extract that's predominantly L-isomer (which sometimes one may want...
  44. Re: Weight Of Fractionated Coconut Oil In Grams per mL

    :)

    Same here!!
  45. Re: Weight Of Fractionated Coconut Oil In Grams per mL

    Thank you Ivor.

    Apology absolutely accepted, and further I owe you and do apologize as well for my response at that time. I understand where you were coming from with the discussion in question,...
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    Re: Linalool smelling Fishy

    If I had been more on the ball I would have been refrigerating my linalool, or at least any I expected to remain un-used for a long time, as it's not particularly stable, and now that you're brought...
  47. Re: Weight Of Fractionated Coconut Oil In Grams per mL

    I didn't consider that nomenclature problem to have to invalidate reported value which was stated in clear terms which I repeated, g/mL, which are valid for density and directly applicable to the...
  48. Re: Natural Florals that Give me a Headache...

    Very very interesting and informative. Thank you.

    While I do not get headaches, not uncommonly when fragrances bother me I feel the need to blow my nose violently and repeatedly -- it can be quite...
  49. Re: Weight Of Fractionated Coconut Oil In Grams per mL

    It seems unlikely, vegetable oils seemed to me to be generally around 0.9 g/mL and I don't think FCO would be markedly different.

    A quick websearch yielded:...
  50. Re: Advances in unveiling human olfaction

    Quite interesting, thank you. Also thank you for the valuable reminder on this way to view papers.

    I hope there will be a followup where perception is studied more closely than simply intensity...
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    Re: Timbersilk and ISO E Super question

    I could be completely wrong but I think the difference between Iso-E Super, Timbersilk, and Sylvamber is not just increasing gamma isomer.

    I can smell Iso-E Super straight, for example, and not be...
  52. Re: A source for AURAM (arcadi boix camps) products... let's hope so

    You are right. I had seen a similar source in Russia and got myself confused. It may be better to the US from Ukraine though still maybe too difficult.
  53. Re: A source for AURAM (arcadi boix camps) products... let's hope so

    Due to the US government, or factions within it, having a policy of demonizing Russia for many years now, it tends to be very difficult to do trade between the US and Russia, so we here in the US may...
  54. Re: A source for AURAM (arcadi boix camps) products... let's hope so

    Thank you for posting this.

    The claimed list, translated, is:

    We are official representatives and partners of AURAM company, whose perfumery compositions are recognized worldwide as the best in...
  55. Re: New materials: advice on dilution and storage

    There is also no need to end up at any specific percentage. For each formula, go with what seems right.
  56. Re: New materials: advice on dilution and storage

    Yes, if you want to make concentrate, usually you'll use mostly undiluted or diluted only as provided or necessary. That won't be enough to make it hard to end up at 20% or 30%.
  57. Re: New materials: advice on dilution and storage

    As a suggestion, medium odor strength materials (as listed by TGSC) 10% or 20%, high odor strength materials 1/10th of that, and some exceptionally high odor strength materials even lower by powers...
  58. Re: Identification of a particular musk ingredient

    The effect is likely individual, so yes, sampling a number of white musks may be your only way.

    I don't know if any particular musks are especially used or avoided in candles; hopefully someone...
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    Re: Perfume spray: Ethanol Alternative

    Coco caprylate also has IMO very nice properties. Worth trying.
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    Re: Perfume spray: Ethanol Alternative

    IPM doesn't evaporate and if you have a substantial layer remaining on the skin, it draws out skin lipids, these come up from the skin and go into the IPM. This damages the integrity of the stratum...
  61. Re: Some reading materials for learners - PK Interview with Revista Olfato magazine

    WOW. Just wow.

    It's not that I need added motivation to succeed, I already have a lot of motivating factors especially as it's not just me but my wife as well, but adding this to my vision of the...
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    Re: A little (very little) Fougere research

    Trying to put together all the contributed thoughts and trying to come up with something better than I've said before, perhaps this is useful and accurate:

    1) Rather than treating the matter as...
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    Re: Perfume spray: Ethanol Alternative

    So far as I know ethanol is the ONLY satisfactory-to-everyone highly volatile carrier.

    Non-volatile/low volatile formulations are interesting and can be beautiful but will always be different from...
  64. Re: Some reading materials for learners - PK Interview with Revista Olfato magazine

    So off topic (my post here) but Paul do you still make stained glass windows or might you?!? :)

    I don't have the money now nor the home for them, but that could happen (always working towards it)...
  65. Re: modifiers, boosters, builders. The role of ingredients in the formula

    I didn't want to reply to the original post because I have no good contribution on the direct question. While I think it's absolutely valuable to have structural concepts (that work for each person)...
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    Re: A little (very little) Fougere research

    :)

    That sounds very nice! I have never worked with carnation in a fougere, which pretty much astounds me now that you mention it. I certainly need to in a next effort.
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    Re: A little (very little) Fougere research

    I agree with you completely on all points, George.

    In fact I was hoping to see what you have to say on this. Thank you!

    Geranyl acetate was based on seeing many formulas using only that as a...
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    Re: A little (very little) Fougere research

    Thank you, Brian!

    Oh, your formula is nothing like the kind that had me down:

    Accord N 208689 Fougere woody (Firmenich)

    30.00 BASILIC SYNTH
    150.00 BERGAMOTE SYNTH
    30.00 COUMARIN...
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    Re: Human musk ?

    That is the only I know of like that, and unfortunately 4-AD's not legal in the United States anymore, due to the fact that the body readily converts it to testosterone and the government is opposed...
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    Re: Human musk ?

    It is always better look up specific individual molecules, or whatever the subject may be, rather than rely on theoretical ideals or clams.

    Depending on the person and possibly concentration...
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    Re: starting out, question on chypre notes

    I think it's fair to say that fougeres are rather predominantly or even vastly predominantly designed to be masculine perfumes.

    There isn't a feminine fougere that I know. Canoe started out as a...
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    Re: So I got my oakmoss. Now what?

    Everclear is a perfectly good source of ethanol for dilution if you get the 190 proof kind. Or any other 190 proof vodka, culinary solvent, or undenatured alcohol.

    Perfumer's alcohol, which is...
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    Re: So I got my oakmoss. Now what?

    Well, this company on their own site ( https://www.deveherbes.com/ ) claims to be selling 2 mL of genuine neroli essential oil for $1.39 (99 rupees.) That's too cheap to possibly be real.

    it is...
  74. Thread: Hedione

    by Bill Roberts
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    Re: Hedione

    Hi Jolieo!

    First, I want to be clear that I'm 100% not saying you're incorrect on what happened. You were there, I wasn't.

    That said, did you keep any of the original woody essential oils...
  75. Re: Price Jumps from 10 to 200 just to have Scales without auto off feature? 2nd hand?

    Great point on natural materials changing.

    I have often thought what an interesting, challenging, and great job it must be, or have been, to work at a great house with the responsibility of...
  76. Re: EO Perfume blends - Fougere, Chypre, & Cologne

    Very interesting and informative, thank you! I missed this post when originally posted.

    EDIT: I knew nothing of calamus. Quick websearching turned up the below.

    From White Lotus Aromatics:...
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    Re: A little (very little) Fougere research

    Interesting and great points, thank you!

    It's not that I forgot about oakmoss, I consider it a fine possible ingredient for fougeres, but wasn't persuaded that there's a strong argument for...
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    Re: A little (very little) Fougere research

    Very nice Paul! :)
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    A little (very little) Fougere research

    In the one corner we have it that a fougere is built on, and must have, lavender, geranium, and coumarin. Many other things are common additions, but these are required.

    And in the other we have...
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    Re: starting out, question on chypre notes

    Very interesting to note two formulas Paul posted in the thread you linked:

    Basic Chypre
    Bergamot 15
    Sandalwood 8
    Vetiver 6
    oakmoss 5
    Rose 6
    Jasmin 5
    Gamma Methyl Ionone 3
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    Re: starting out, question on chypre notes

    Completely missing any disagreement or contradiction??

    The only differences on these so far as I can tell between what I was saying and thinking and David Ruskin are:

    Fougere -- exact same, a...
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    Re: starting out, question on chypre notes

    So to expand the practical recommendations a little further, and again, on the assumption that a chypre is actually the goal (perfectly fine if it's not, but if not then the below might not apply at...
  83. Re: Price Jumps from 10 to 200 just to have Scales without auto off feature? 2nd hand?

    I can't speak to what may be available in the UK but in the US I obtained via eBay an excellent 200 g scale with 0.001 g precision and about 0.002 g accuracy (maybe 0.003) for about $90. The one I...
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    Re: starting out, question on chypre notes

    What you learn from combining two notes is often inapplicable when going to three, or will need modification.

    I would do this, meaning exactly that and nothing more:

    Material 1 goes onto 3...
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    Re: Advice for citrus

    Nothing wrong with PA!

    I omitted mentioning because I was bringing out the point of how wonderful PSH and CP are for free samples.
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    Re: starting out, question on chypre notes

    Personal opinion, I think so.

    On this one I'd disagree with myself above (not really, just expanding on) and agree 100% with Paul, try expanding the box and see if it feels chypre to you. If so,...
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    Re: starting out, question on chypre notes

    Ordinarily I agree with you Paul, but when accepted meanings within perfumery are overlooked, communication breaks down.

    E.g., if I say I am a beginner and looking to make a fougere, and nowhere...
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    Re: starting out, question on chypre notes

    Highly recommend reading (blasts from the past):

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/418579-3-ingredient-Chypre-amp-Fougere-–-a-little-help?p=3762187&viewfull=1#post3762187...
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    Re: Unwanted Soapy smell in own mixture

    For quite some time in my beginning perfuming all kinds of quite different things turned into either "soap" or "mud" to my nose. My guess is my brain or nose didn't know what to make of the very...
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    Re: starting out, question on chypre notes

    Perhaps it depends on what one means by "chypre."

    According to my understanding, if an accord or formula lacks any of oakmoss, labdanum, or bergamot, it's not a chypre.

    Some insist on other...
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    Re: Advice for citrus

    You're very welcome!

    Not that I'm pushing Creatingperfume.com directly -- I chose Susan's site in this instance because it has the feature of organizing according to note -- but at both...
  92. Re: Smell Sketches - Jan. 2020 - cis-3-Hexenol

    Thank you. You're 100% right of course. I mis-read.
  93. Re: Smell Sketches - Jan. 2020 - cis-3-Hexenol

    A long way short of being Paul but so as to get you a faster answer:

    Methyl ionone and Iso E Super or Timbersilk are two entirely different things, in different families.

    The generic name for...
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    Re: Advice for citrus

    Well, it may appear to be, but I will bet that the poster has not even smelled half the materials he named.

    It takes a while to be able to navigate around which members actually know whereof they...
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    Re: starting out, question on chypre notes

    You might try working first with trying to find an accord you like of only oak moss, labdanum, and bergamot, and optionally patchouli if as is often the case that's part of your personal fundamental...
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    Re: starting out, question on chypre notes

    It is more economical of material to dilute to 10% (in some cases less) the materials you will be working with in a given project, and work with the diluted material. This is because it is impossible...
  97. Re: Smell Sketches - Jan. 2020 - cis-3-Hexenol

    Interesting choice. Thank you! And a good one for me to work with. I know cis-3-hexenol is very useful, but in practice I believe by the end of a formulation I've never kept it in, so I certainly...
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    Re: Perfuwoman Formulas are Gone!

    For any wondering what "Ambrene 50" might be, which I did: http://www.basenotes.net/threads/316967-Ambrene-50?p=3229871&viewfull=1#post3229871

    Orange oil 15
    Lemon oil 15
    Bergamot oil 200...
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    Re: Perfuwoman Formulas are Gone!

    I assume you mean what's the LG... I don't know. Possibly in his materials lists he specifies but I haven't checked. (Edit, checked and his list just says Everynyl, and Givaudan as supplier.)...
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    Re: Perfuwoman Formulas are Gone!

    Thank you for that link. Very convenient. I have downloaded many of the chapters having found them in various places but I am pretty sure not all. I had not seen them all in one place since Brechbill...
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