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  1. Re: Anyone know of Canadian suppliers of hard to find stuff like Ambrette seed, Oud, etc?

    Sunrise Botanics - in Toronto - sell ambrette absolute, black pepper oil, mimosa absolute, cassie absolute and tonka beans. They currently offer a flat rate of $5 for shipping within Canada and the...
  2. Re: Anyone know of Canadian suppliers of hard to find stuff like Ambrette seed, Oud, etc?

    Botanic Planet Canada sell ambrette seed absolute and black (not pink) pepper essential oil. They also sell tonka beans by the lb but that would make a lot of tincture. They don't sell mimosa...
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    Re: Watery Green Base Notes...?

    Paul, have you considered using a little oak moss absolute? It might be more on the woody side but it certainly has a damp aspect that may fit in with your watery theme. Although, perhaps the...
  4. Replies
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    Re: Vintage Bases - Sharing Good News

    I admire your enthusiasm, Jamie. It sounds like you're on to a real winner! From what I've read, L'Origan contained vanillin and coumarin; so in regard to your other thread, it might be best to leave...
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    Re: Vanilla tincture - help

    Jamie, I've noticed that the pages to which I referred in 'Vanilla', are temporarily unavailable. The pages displayed in the free preview constantly change, so you may wish to try again at a later...
  6. Replies
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    Re: Vanilla tincture - help

    Hey Jamie, I think that you'll find that it's the other way around. Tahitian vanilla has more of a heliotrope-like aroma, while Bourbon vanilla has more of a classic vanilla aroma. It's largely due...
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    Re: Honey accord help

    I found cassia bark oil to have a strong note of honey, so you may wish to add a little of that. Cassia or cinnamon are often added to foods that contain honey, such as breakfast cereals, snacks,...
  8. Replies
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    Re: Honey accord help

    Chris, I had also considered mentioning honey water. It's good to see someone taking an interest in the old formulas.

    Jamie, you may also find it useful to know that it's contents were...
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    Re: Brandy in Perfume?

    Some of the oldest fragrances contained brandy; Eau de Hongrie, Eau de Mélisse des Carmes, Aqua Mellis, etc. Cognac oil (from wine lees) has been used in fragrances since the 19th century but it's...
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    Re: Musk Xylene (xylol) first impressions

    I seem to remember you saying that musk ambrette was your preferred choice (see below). Perhaps you were not talking about your own preferred choice above:
    ...
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    Re: Chronology of fragrance chemicals?

    Nice find, Alysoun.

    Jfrater, you may find this complementary:



    (for some reason, it won't allow me to maintain a gap between the dates and the descriptions).
    ...
  12. Re: Can Benzyl Acetate be used to build a pear aroma?

    I'm sure that your suggestions were taken on board, David. I cannot recommend Poirenate to Tomolo without having first tested it. Like everyone else, I was informing him of the materials that I have...
  13. Re: Can Benzyl Acetate be used to build a pear aroma?

    Of the compounds that I have tested, ethyl 2,4-decadienoate has the most realistic pear aroma, closely followed by cis-3-hexenyl caproate. The former of the two is quite expensive, however. The...
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    Headspace testing services?

    Hi, I'd be interested to know if any of you have used, or know of any companies that provide competitively priced headspace analysis. I'm particularly interested in dynamic headspace analysis. What...
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    Re: Extracting the fragrance from old beeswax?

    It may be worth placing the tincture in the freezer for 48-72 hours, before filtering through a chilled filter and funnel. However, it's better to allow the solution to gradually cool first at room...
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    Re: Looking for Good Orange Blossom Fragrance Oil

    You must have been writing at the same time as me, Zemlya. ;)
  17. Replies
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    Re: Looking for Good Orange Blossom Fragrance Oil

    You may be thinking of methyl anthranilate. It's available from Creatingperfume.
  18. Thread: Top note Musks

    by Pears
    Replies
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    Re: Top note Musks

    I believe that Helvetolide and Applelide have notable top notes, but I have yet to try them.
  19. Re: Piperonal (Heliotropin) in Perfumer and Flavorist

    Some additional information which you may find interesting:

    1869 - Discovery of heliotropin
    1871 - Structure of heliotropin determined
    1890 - Synthesis of heliotropin from saffrole
    ...
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    Re: Dorinia SA E - how did they do it?

    Chamomile would help to lend an apple-like note, which I detect in Dorinia SA.

    Pears
  21. Thread: tincture Benzoin

    by Pears
    Replies
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    Re: tincture Benzoin

    You're more than welcome guys. Just a couple of additional points: I suspect that they would have used ceramic bottles rather than glass when placing them in the Sun, to protect the ingredients from...
  22. Thread: tincture Benzoin

    by Pears
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    Re: tincture Benzoin

    It took me a while to write out but here are some old recipes for Lait Virginal and Eau d' Ange. I've converted the old French measures into modern equivalents for you. The Lait Virginal recipes...
  23. Thread: tincture Benzoin

    by Pears
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    799

    Re: tincture Benzoin

    Nemenator, you may like to read Carl Deite's instructions regarding the tincturing of benzoin:
    ...
  24. Thread: tincture Benzoin

    by Pears
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    Re: tincture Benzoin

    Lait virginal didn't usually contain rose water, David. It typically contained esprit de vin (grape alcohol), eau de vie (brandy), benzoin, storax, cloves, cinnamon, nutmeg, musk and ambergris. Eau...
  25. Thread: tincture Benzoin

    by Pears
    Replies
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    799

    Re: tincture Benzoin

    Benzoin isn't usually distilled to produce an EO. What some companies refer to as benzoin EO is actually an extract containing a solvent to make it pourable, such as benzyl benzoate, benzyl alcohol,...
  26. Thread: Nirvanolide

    by Pears
    Replies
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    Re: Nirvanolide

    It's apparently similar in aroma to Musk Ketone and Muscenone, so you could try those instead. See page 161 below:
    ...
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    Amber Accords: Siam or Sumatra Benzoin?

    Does anyone know which of the two is most typically used for classic amber accords? Thanks.

    Pears
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    Re: Cinnamon (bark) oil repleacer

    Sigma Aldrich sell it for Ł40 (€56) per kilo, shipped from Germany. However, they only deal with companies, not private individuals.
    ...
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    Re: Cinnamon (bark) oil repleacer

    If you're in the US then try Crafter's Choice Cinnamon Fragrance Oil. It contains 40-50% methyl cinnamaldehyde and only 1-2% cinnamal (cinnamaldehyde):
    ...
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    Re: Suggested filtering methods

    Have you been reading Poucher, Alysoun? He sometimes used this term, which I believe simply meant to filter the solution until it was bright. To quote from his book:

    "Elemi is useful as a fixative...
  31. Re: Just about everything you wanted to know about CITRUS!

    Misinformation can be dangerous, but almost certainly not in this instance. He probably just misinterpreted one of his references, and needs counseling from someone with experience in the field. If...
  32. Re: Just about everything you wanted to know about CITRUS!

    Dangerous, David? I agree with much of what you said, but there's no need to blow this out of proportion.

    The information about the different varieties is possibly largely correct, as the author...
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    Re: Suggested filtering methods

    It's also confusing when you're talking about freezing a substance that doesn't actually freeze solid at such temperatures, i.e. alcohol. That's why I chose to use the word refrigeration, but alas,...
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    Re: Suggested filtering methods

    As Paul said, the freezer. Unless you wanted to clarify chicken stock, in which case it would be a cycle, from fridge to freezer and back again. Somehow I don't think that your intention is to...
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    Re: Suggested filtering methods

    Jfrater, refrigeration works by lowering the solubility of the compounds in the alcohol. If they are compounds with a low solubility in alcohol, such as lipids, then they will become supersaturated...
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    Re: Dorinia SA E - how did they do it?

    Cheers Chris. I see what you mean about the price, Vigon are offering it for $1030 a kilo. I think that a combination of Dorinia SA and Rose Givco will work just fine for my needs.
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    Re: Dorinia SA E - how did they do it?

    That's good to know, Sultan. Funnily enough, I also got my Dorinia SA and Rose Givco from Chris. I didn't inquire about Wardia though because he hasn't included it in his price list. I would love to...
  38. Replies
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    Re: Dorinia SA E - how did they do it?

    I'm curious to know if the only difference between SA and SA E is the musk components. Has anyone compared the two in aroma?
  39. Replies
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    Re: Dorinia SA E - how did they do it?

    Sultanpasha, I've read that strawberry glycidate is sometimes used in rose and jasmine compositions.

    Jfrater, I can't detect any Dulcinyl in Dorinia SA, although I have the standard version....
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    Re: Very unreliable Hermitage Oils experience!!

    I have only received one item from Hermitage that didn't smell right, the rest have been top notch. The owner also kindly sent me a couple of oils for free, after he discovered that I had been...
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    Re: Fruity essential oils?

    Cognac oil has a notably fruity aroma. I find green cognac oil to be more fruity than white cognac oil, possessing notes of grape and apple.
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    Re: Fruity essential oils?

    Western red cedarwood oil has a strong smell of pineapple, lime or pear drops.
  43. Replies
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    Re: Tiziana Terenzi - Laudano Nero and Maremma

    Your supposition is correct, Jaime. Although laudano eventually came to mean the opium extract, it originally referred to labdanum resin. On page 199 of the sixteenth century book, "Libro Della...
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    Re: Realistic Neroli oil replacer?

    Thanks Chris, that's very useful to know. I've sent you a PM.

    Pears
  45. Replies
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    Re: Realistic Neroli oil replacer?

    Those were roughly my thoughts also, iselarom. I'd be interested to know if anyone here has tried Neroli Light Oil before.

    Paul, I would if it was for myself but I was inquiring on someone's...
  46. Replies
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    Re: Realistic Neroli oil replacer?

    Thanks guys. Have any of you tried what some vendors describe as Neroli Light Oil? Essential Oils Direct descibe it as follows:

    "Obtained from the steam distillation of the flowers of the bitter...
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    Realistic Neroli oil replacer?

    I'd be interested to know if any of you have tried any realistic Neroli oil replacers or accords. Thanks.

    Pears
  48. Re: Solvent extraction for concretes using SC CO2

    Yes, SC CO2 can be used on fresh plant materials. Raw materials often undergo pretreatment processes before CO2 extraction, such as milling and drying, in order to increase extraction efficiency....
  49. Re: How strong is Rose Givco compared to Rose Otto?

    Which of the materials that you have is most close to rose otto? The same goes to Paul and anyone else reading? Obviously nothing will ever compare to the real thing, but it would be nice to know...
  50. Re: How strong is Rose Givco compared to Rose Otto?

    Cheers Paul!
  51. How strong is Rose Givco compared to Rose Otto?

    Can anyone tell me how strong Rose Givco is compared to rose otto? How much should I use if I was trying to replace the rose otto in a formula? I realise that they're not the same in terms of odour...
  52. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    That makes better sense to me, Bill. If you're using it at that concentration, then it suggests that it might not be much stronger than natural ambergris. I would very much like to hear from anyone...
  53. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    Bill, are you sure that you meant ppt? By my calculation, 25 ppt is equivalent to 20 nanograms per litre of 95% ethanol, which seems astronomically small.
  54. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    Does anyone know roughly how strong Fixateur 505 is compared to ambergris, upon dissolution? Thanks.
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    Re: Tincture, how to produce it

    Bullonaio, you may like to read the section on tinctures in 'A Practical Treatise on the Manufacture of Perfumery' (pages 225-237):
    ...
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    Re: Strong Cedarwood Variety

    You may like to try Western red cedarwood oil. It smells nothing like the pencil cedars (Virginia, etc.) but it has a strong top note that stands out in blends. The dry down is woody, with notes of...
  57. Re: Any ideas on how to do/learn (smallish) scale CO2 etc extractions? - wandering post

    CO2 extraction is quite complicated and not the best choice for beginners. As a beginner, you'd be better off using a solvent with a much lower vapour pressure, such as pentane. However, pentane is...
  58. Thread: Benzoin Siam

    by Pears
    Replies
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    2,044

    Re: Benzoin Siam

    Benzoin Oliffac 63 is a mobile liquid, containing ethanol. I haven't tried it though, so I couldn't tell you if it smells more like Siam or Sumatra benzoin. Perhaps someone else knows?
  59. Replies
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    Re: Variability of Birch tar oil?

    Thanks guys. I've ordered some rectified birch bark oil, to see if it produces a notably lighter oil than the crude tar. I'll let you know the results in due course.

    Pears
  60. Replies
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    Re: Variability of Birch tar oil?

    Hey flagellum, yes, caustic soda and sodium hydroxide are one and the same. However, you'd need to check the label or MSDS to find out if it's pure sodium hydroxide. I'd only recommend using it if...
  61. Replies
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    Re: Variability of Birch tar oil?

    Okay, now for the results: I tested both crude birch tar and rectified cade oil. The crude birch tar completely lost it's meaty aroma, but it still smells very smoky. The aqueous solution turned...
  62. Replies
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    Re: Variability of Birch tar oil?

    Indeed, the phenols and NaOH form phenoxides, which are soluble in water and therefore readily removed. I couldn't say how common it is to use this process on birch tar oil, but it is, infact, common...
  63. Replies
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    Re: Variability of Birch tar oil?

    It's certainly much more than you're likely to need, Bill, which is why I said "up to...". One issue is that you may not always know the composition of an essential oil, and in some cases it may be...
  64. Replies
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    Re: Variability of Birch tar oil?

    Hi flagellum, to alkali-wash an essential oil you'll need a strong base, such as sodium hydroxide (NaOH); and distilled water. One part NaOH to two parts distilled water (w/w) would be sufficient....
  65. Replies
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    Re: Variability of Birch tar oil?

    Surely that depends on the effect that is required, David. If there's a market for fractionated oils, such as Atlas cedarwood heart, then I don't see why a fractionated birch tar oil, with less...
  66. Replies
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    Variability of Birch tar oil?

    I'd be interested to know if anyone has noticed a significant difference in aroma between different batches of birch tar oil, besides the obvious difference between crude and rectified oils. I would...
  67. Thread: Powdery effect

    by Pears
    Replies
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    939

    Re: Powdery effect

    Rosone is otherwise known as rose acetate, and rose ketones are otherwise known as damasacones; as David said:

    Odor descriptors for powdery:

    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/odor/powdery.html
  68. Replies
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    Re: How to Make Marijuana Perfume

    Precisely.
  69. Replies
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    Re: How to Make Marijuana Perfume

    His list is primarily comprised of amino acids and vitamins, along with a few toxic ingredients not fit for human consumption. Some of the amino acids listed are neurotransmitters, and some are...
  70. Thread: Perfume ebooks.

    by Pears
    Replies
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    1,155

    Re: Perfume ebooks.

    I admire your conviction, angelick. There's a talking digital kitchen scale called VOX 3000TS, which weighs to the nearest gram. If you were to dissolve say 1 gram of essential oil, in 9 grams of...
  71. Thread: Beta ionone

    by Pears
    Replies
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    1,323

    Re: Beta ionone

    Hi Milhaus, in my experience beta ionone is the weakest, which suggests that I am anosmic to it. I can certainly smell it, but it's nowhere near as strong to me as alpha ionone. One study revealed...
  72. Thread: Beta ionone

    by Pears
    Replies
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    1,323

    Re: Beta ionone

    David, how strong would you say that gamma methyl ionone 70-95%, is compared to say alpha ionone, beta ionone, or alpha irone? Thanks.
  73. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    I've done a little research, Chris, and Ambrofix wasn't a registered trademark until 2006; although it's possible that they used it prior to that as a trade name. Amberlyn Super (and most likely...
  74. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    Thanks for the thought, Bill, but I'm in the UK. Fortunately Chris has some in stock though.

    Chris, thankyou for your detailed response. I happen to be after something phenolic for this...
  75. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    Thankyou Chris, I could be interested in some of your inventory in the future. Can you tell me how the Ambrarome compares to regular Labdanum in terms of odour? The data sheet from Synarome states,...
  76. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    There does seem to be a fair amount of contradicting information out there, so it's not surprising that even experienced perfumers don't know what to make of it all. The majority of the literature...
  77. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    Interesting, the first compound in the GC/MS (8α,12-epoxy-13,14,15,16-tertnorlabdane) is Ambroxide, aka Ambroxan:

    http://webbook.nist.gov/cgi/cbook.cgi?ID=6790-58-5
  78. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    Thanks, Luigi. Here's another source that may be worth reading with regards to Ambroxan, aka Ambergris oxide:
    ...
  79. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    Goodscents list it as occuring in Ambergris, under the 'Occurence' tab:

    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/rw1016071.html

    It's also listed (Naphthofuran (6790-58-5) as a degradation...
  80. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    Thankyou Chris, I'll bear that in mind. The formula that I'm recreating already contains mixed ionones, so perhaps I should use a little less Ambrofix?

    Does anyone what they used as substitutes...
  81. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    Thankyou Chris, you always give concise answers.



    If I understood you correctly, that would be 67% more Ambrofix than Ambergris, before dissolution. Is that correct? If so, that's a little...
  82. Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    I'm trying to figure out how much Ambrofix that I should use to replace the Ambergris in a recipe. What would you say are their equivalent strengths, upon dissolution? Assuming that the Ambergris is...
  83. Thread: Tolu balsam

    by Pears
    Replies
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    1,231

    Re: Tolu balsam

    I'd recommend following Bill's suggestion first; leaving it to settle and then carefully pouring off the clearer layer on top. Then try dissolving the precipitate in a little more alcohol, before...
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    Re: Plasticine / playdough

    I've read that the smell of Plasticine is predominantly due to the antioxidant that it contains, Irganox L130.

    Unrefined Palm Oil, aka Red Palm Oil, has an aroma similar to Olive Oil and...
  85. Replies
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    Re: What does v.p mean?

    I believe that 'est' means estimate in this instance. If we were to convert mm/Hg to µm/Hg, then the figure would be 10 (est). Not too far from 14, if you consider that the former is only an...
  86. Replies
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    Re: What does v.p mean?

    Not all of the figures appear to be cohesive. If we take Geraniol as an example, she gives a V.P of 21. The V.P given by Good Scents is 0.021 mm/Hg @ 25.00 °C, which strongly suggests that she...
  87. Replies
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    Re: How To Fragrance Talcum Powder ?

    Good advice, David. Fortunately, he wishes to use Sandalwood and Vetiver oils, which improve with age, and may therefore be slower to degrade. None the less, an antioxidant would be a good idea....
  88. Replies
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    Re: What does v.p mean?

    As David said, it may be the vapour pressure, but without the units of measurement it's pretty useless information. I'd suggest that you ignore the figure.
  89. Re: Is THIS Ambergris? (Old Fritzsche Brothers vial)

    If you take a look at their price list from 1967, you can see that under 'animal fixatives' they list two forms of Ambergris; 'Gray Extra' and 'Artificial F.B':
    ...
  90. Re: Is THIS Ambergris? (Old Fritzsche Brothers vial)

    Nice find, Renegade. I think that it's most likely a synthetic substitute. If you take a look at Schimmel & Co's (Fritzsche Brothers) 1936 price list, you can see that under Flower Oils and Bases...
  91. Replies
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    Re: Need help with a budget!

    He said that he never does any work like a perfumer, so why assume that he's experienced with making fragrances for soap and candles? He may or may not be, but either way a little advice could...
  92. Replies
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    Re: Need help with a budget!

    edit.
  93. Replies
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    Re: Need help with a budget!

    Carles, you'd also need to test the suitability of the fragrances for use in soaps and candles. Phenols (eugenol, thymol, etc) and esters (linalyl acetate, benzyl acetate, etc.) will largely be...
  94. Replies
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    Re: frankincense oil in the uk

    You may like to try Hermitage oils, they have a few from Somalia:

    http://www.hermitageoils.com/frankincense-carteri-co2
    http://www.hermitageoils.com/frankincense-sacra-somaliland-co-op-project...
  95. Thread: Old wood accord

    by Pears
    Replies
    13
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    1,502

    Re: Old wood accord

    Vanilla absolute or vanillin may be helpful, but use them very sparingly. The lignin in wood and paper is composed of monolignols, which are structurally similar to vanillin. Upon decomposition with...
  96. Replies
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    Re: Green Cognac Essential Oil

    Cheers guys! One thing confuses me though. David, you mentioned that it was fleeting and most definitely a top note. Various suppliers describe it as having excellent tenacity. I wonder if different...
  97. Replies
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    Re: Green Cognac Essential Oil

    Mumsy, did you discover how much cognac oil that you needed to replace the aroma of the brandy in the recipe?
  98. Replies
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    1,015

    Re: Realistic Pear aroma?

    Thanks guys!

    Paul, I had read that Bartlett (Williams) Pears contained ethyl 2 4-decadienoate, but I didn't know that the percentage was quite so high. Bedoukian describe it as being the...
  99. Replies
    13
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    1,015

    Realistic Pear aroma?

    I'd like to know if anyone has tried any realistic synthetic Pear aroma compounds or accords. Has anyone tried Pear ester (ethyl 2 4-decadienoate), or Pear valerate (Peranat)? I'm looking for...
  100. Replies
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    Re: Green Cognac Essential Oil

    Thanks for your help guys. It sounds like it might be useful in small amounts, to replicate old formulas that call for the use of brandy.
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