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  1. Replies
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    Re: Asking about Phenoxanol

    Rose ketones smell fruity and jammy, in a very sophisticated sort of way, slight apple and plum. But beautiful. Beta-damascone has exquisite tonalities.
    Different types of things can smell like...
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    Re: Cucumber and Vetiver ?

    Edit: just read that "Fenchol gives basil its characteristic scent and comprises 15.9% of the volatile oils of some species of Aster."

    Fenchol is described as "Camphor borneol pine woody dry sweet...
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    Re: replacing rose ketones due to IFRA limits

    Your thinking is already very much in line with what I would be thinking in your situation. You are right on, and unfortunately I don't have much to add.



    Perhaps Apritone, if you wanted to...
  4. Thread: Rose accord

    by parker25mv
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    Re: Rose accord

    Thank you, those are very useful observations/opinions to me.
  5. Replies
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    Re: Asking about Phenoxanol

    I have to agree with this description. Although, as already mentioned, one would be very naive to think that one single fragrance chemical could completely replace the smell of rose.
    I think the...
  6. Re: I hope Neimans isnít the next one to close

    I've noticed the latest generation of rich people don't seem to have very good taste. They're spending their money on gaudy things.
    There's probably a number of sociological and economic reasons for...
  7. Thread: Osmanthus

    by parker25mv
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    8,006

    Re: Osmanthus

    Okay, I've come up with a basic osmanthus accord. It may not be the best or worked out but it's somewhat satisfactory.
    Apritone
    Neryl acetate
    Hedione

    I haven't tried adding it, but tiny...
  8. Thread: Rose accord

    by parker25mv
    Replies
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    7,648

    Re: Rose accord

    I have a rose accord to share as well, a very different formula from the typical one. It just involves three primary ingredients:
    Phenoxanol
    Doremox
    Firascone

    It gives a very realistic rose...
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    Re: Raspberry-Ketone, strange things...

    I got some raspberry ketone methyl ether and am having a very difficult time smelling or detecting it. I seem to get a very faint raspberry smell and then it completely disappears, turns into...
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    Re: Lemon Accord

    I got a sample of L-limonene and can describe it:
    lemon terpene smell, in a simple sort of sour way. kind of a sharp lemon edge, or the woodiness in lemon. similar to a Pine-Sol feeling but much...
  11. Re: descriptions of some new fragrance chemicals

    Phenoxanol - like the very musky undertone of rose potpourri. Much more complex, subtle, mild, and deeper than phenethyl alcohol. I get a musky rose petal. Heavy in the same way that patchouli is,...
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    Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    Here's my review of Ebanol - almost slight chocolate / maple syrup tonality, wood. deeper, dark brown, a precious dark brown wood from the tropics, like mahogany, with some teak. reminiscent of...
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    Re: Looking for Oud like sweetness

    Cherry fragrance accord is mostly benzaldehyde in scent.



    It's very subtle, and everyone uses different words in an attempt to describe specific aspects of smells. You may likely be smelling...
  14. Re: How to organzie oils and aroma chemicals?

    You could alphabetize everything into a list, and then write on that list which bin you keep it in. That way, if you're having trouble finding something, you could look on your list.
    Then keep the...
  15. Re: How to organzie oils and aroma chemicals?

    Probably by different families (citrus, mint, woods, floral, etc), and then by natural essential oils separated in a different group from synthetics.
  16. Replies
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    Re: Looking for Oud like sweetness

    Just a little bit of Cedryl methyl ether can add a little facet of "cotton candy" incense-like sweetness feeling, in addition to being ambery and having an edge of cedar dryness.

    You might also...
  17. Re: descriptions of some new fragrance chemicals

    Doremox - very diffusive, like the aroma from a sour green Reisling wine, delicious but not particularly edible, a bit green apple, a little waxy. I really like this. I can see how this would be...
  18. Re: descriptions of some new fragrance chemicals

    beta damascone - beautiful, jammy, floral, dried rose petal but real rose, natural. might be contamination of my sample but a sense a green bitterness in the end, ever so slight vinyl smell. The...
  19. Re: descriptions of some new fragrance chemicals

    Firascone- more jammy than Givescone. unlike Givescone it's just apple juice, not pomegranate juice. Maybe twice as damascone-like as Givescone. I get a slight minty white aspect in the smell. It...
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    Re: Fixing Stickiness

    Could you clarify a little bit more what you mean by different qualities? Were the two produced from different companies?

    Why would someone want to buy Hercolyn D if it was completely odorless? (I...
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    Re: Fixing Stickiness

    Has anyone had the opportunity to try Hercolyn D (which is actually made from tree rosin) and could tell us whether it leaves behind any apparent stickiness on the skin?
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    Re: Fixing Stickiness

    Yes, a little bit of pine resin essential oil would replace any of the lighter terpenes that may have disappeared out of the dissolved resinoid during evaporation.
    However, I still suspect the...
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    Re: Fixing Stickiness

    One last thought: perhaps dissolving the resin in a solvent, something like methyl ethyl ketone or hexane (rather than ethanol) might help allow the fragrant components in the resin to dissolve while...
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    Re: Milk Lactone Solubility

    That suggests it is only partially soluble. I would stir it some more and warm/heat it just a little bit (especially if the ambient temperature in the room is cold), and let it sit a day or two and...
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    Re: Fixing Stickiness

    Haha, I wish someone could find a solution. I have had this problem as well.

    I think usually the main way perfumers usually deal with this problem is to limit these resins used in the fragrance to...
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    Re: Milk Lactone Solubility

    In rare instances, that could have to do with impurities.
    The melting point for decanoic acid is only 31.6 įC, and I would expect for milk lactone it would be even less (due to the unsaturated...
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    Re: Milk Lactone Solubility

    I'm pretty sure it would be soluble in alcohol. Maybe not completely miscible, but at least a small amount of it should be able to dissolve. (For dilution purposes you might have to dilute it down to...
  28. Re: Which oil (and aromachem etc.) is "solemn"?

    This might be helpful:
    "The nostrils are embattled from the solemn fragrance of frankincense, sage, myrrh, sweet flag, storax, marjoram, lindus, cistus, mint; such vapor filled with all good things...
  29. Re: Which oil (and aromachem etc.) is "solemn"?

    Sometimes a dark red rose note can be solemn.

    Douglas Fir essential oil is dark, deep, and solemn.
    Also Incense Cedar (Calocedrus decurrens) if you've ever gotten an opportunity to smell it....
  30. Re: A most dry/dried musk at low volatility?

    Cedryl methyl ether does not have a medicinal undertone, it is not very balsamic, yet it does have some dry cedar tonality.
    I wouldn't describe it as extremely dry, just medium dry.
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    Re: Green Banana Notes

    So apparently Terrasol is a 50/50 mixture of 2-ethyl-1,3,3-trimethyl-2-norbornanol and cedranol.
  32. Re: have you smelled the new Armani perfumes? do they have access to materials we don't have?

    They can be used together, but it's complicated and beyond the scope of the discussion in this thread, unfortunately. (There are several things that should be considered, if combining them) In...
  33. Re: Hmmm, What makes Ammonia? I have an Ammonia note appearing in the bottle headspace.

    I don't really know all that much here, but I suspect if you were going to want to make the ammonia odor go away you would need a strong acid, not a weak acid (like vinegar or lactic acid, or...
  34. Re: A most dry/dried musk at low volatility?

    Orinox smells pretty dusty, dry, desiccated. Also a stuffy feeling, a bit musty. It also has a bit of piercing sort of obnoxious artificial orange smell, that makes my stomach just a bit queasy when...
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    Re: Green Banana Notes

    Some of these obvious notes, if you can't find the specific chemical, you can usually find it in the form of a perfume accord, i.e. "banana note".
    I'm sure that would be the case with isoamyl...
  36. Re: have you smelled the new Armani perfumes? do they have access to materials we don't have?

    One of the most common Schiff base synthetics is Aurantiol, commonly added in neroli/orange blossom accords.

    I think usually when combining two fragrance molecules through a Schiff base process,...
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    Re: Green Banana Notes

    cis-3-hexenyl acetate


    look in the top upper right hand corner of the illustrated diagram here:
    https://www.fragrantica.com/news/Peaches-Coconuts-and-Cream-Lactones-in-Fragrance-11529.html
    They...
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    Re: Spikenard project.

    If anyone wants to know what it smells like, I have some spikenard incense that originated from Nepal (so you know it's the real species, the one that's actually appropriate for incense/perfume)....
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    Re: Spikenard project.

    According to one source, the main chemical components in spikenard oil are "bornyl acetate, valeranone, jonon, tetramenthyloxatricylodecanol, menthylthymyl-ether and 1,8-cineol"....
  40. Re: pre make your alcohol. so what actually should be put inside?

    Any salicylates that happen to be in the fragrance (very common) will serve as a uv absorber.

    Even 1% seems too high here, if it's there for no other purpose than being a uv absorber. Not good to...
  41. Re: Boosting Cashmeran ( And other restricted notes )

    A question: Does anyone get a slight pencil shavings note from Cashmeran?

    If so, maybe Thymoquinone might be useful for extending that effect?
    (it's also found in Nigella sativa flower essence)
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    Re: Old time perfume

    That's why synthetics are often sold in the form of accords, pre-mixed in the right combination so they smell like a natural note of something.

    Many perfumists may be less comfortable using the...
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    Re: Old time perfume

    The main reason is that synthetics are cheaper or more economical.
    Synthetics can carry other advantages as well, such as being stronger, with more concentrated chemical odorants, than the naturals...
  44. Re: Boosting Cashmeran ( And other restricted notes )

    Yes, very likely. This family has much stronger effects than their actual specific smells. I find that I develop anosmia quite quickly to several of them.
    Even a little faster than ionones, it seems...
  45. Re: have you smelled the new Armani perfumes? do they have access to materials we don't have?

    My general opinion of these type of questions is it's not a clear simple yes or no answer, more like 80% no, 20% yes.

    These companies do have access to captives, and often times the fragrance is...
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    Re: Cucumber and Vetiver ?

    Two others that I found (read about) that may reinforce cucumber are cis-3 hexenyl hexanoate and neryl acetate.
  47. Replies
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    Re: Old time perfume

    If you look at perfumes in ancient times, they tended to be very expensive, a luxury for the more affluent.

    Think about that Bible story where the woman pours expensive spikenard perfume oil onto...
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    Re: Ambergris sources/legality?

    Just use Ambroxan. It's chemically the exact same thing as the primary chemical responsible for the smell in natural Ambergris.

    There are some situations where it doesn't make sense to use the...
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    Re: Cucumber and Vetiver ?

    Glad to see I'm not the only one having trouble matching cucumber with base notes.



    Those are actually some good ideas. (And take that as a compliment because I don't normally hand out...
  50. Re: Boosting Cashmeran ( And other restricted notes )

    Keep in mind that Cashmeran is in a closely related family, which also includes Kephalis, Safraleine, Iso E Super, and even Piconia (though that smells different, more arboreal). (Trimofix O also has...
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    Re: Cucumber and Vetiver ?

    What would you think about using Phenoxanol and Neryl Acetate as the base?
    (possibly with a bit of Hedione)


    I also found this thread: Watery Green Base Notes...?


    I also had the idea for...
  52. Replies
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    Re: Cucumber and Vetiver ?

    Another question: What would be a good base note to a cucumber based fragrance?

    Anyone have some ideas?


    I'm having some real difficulty thinking up any.
  53. Replies
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    Re: Cucumber and Vetiver ?

    In all fairness, that one has some pretty unusual notes. Ravenala, Squash, Mastic/Lentisque, Angelica, and to top it all off "earthy notes" distinctly listed at the bottom.
    Not sure that's really a...
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    Cucumber and Vetiver ?

    Does cucumber go with vetiver? I can't decide.

    Want to hear some thoughts on this.
  55. Re: Hmmm, What makes Ammonia? I have an Ammonia note appearing in the bottle headspace.

    I'm not the most up to date on my chemistry, but looking at the molecular structure, that substance looks like it could be able to break down and release traces of ammonia.

    (For anyone with more...
  56. Thread: Osmanthus

    by parker25mv
    Replies
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    8,006

    Re: Osmanthus

    As megastigmadienone is essential for the true apricot note in both natural apricot and osmanthus, and since megastigmadienone doesn't seem to be offered by any of the perfume supplies, here's a...
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    Re: Tauerade / Irone Alpha

    Orivone is the cheaper orris synthetic, but is more like a background supporting note for orris, and not quite the same higher sophisticated quality as the real thing.
  58. Re: When it says 'Vegetable Emulsifier' in the ingredients of a room spray- what does it usually mea

    It's most likely soy lecithin.
  59. Replies
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    Re: D&G pour homme

    It's hard to say what specific notes you are liking in it. However, the top notes are mainly citrus and neroli.

    I can't say with certainty, but judging by the listed notes, all the perfume...
  60. Re: Ethyl phenylacetate / patchoulyl acetate / Aftel ????

    Then we get into the blurry line of what exactly constitutes "natural".


    This source here claims that "Ethyl Phenylacetate a natural isolate from the USA, is isolated from neroli."...
  61. Thread: Replacer

    by parker25mv
    Replies
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    562

    Re: Replacer

    Vetikone will not be easy to replace. There are several other synthetics that have similarities but none of them will really be the same.

    Some of them like grapefruit indene or gardenia decalone...
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    Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    In terms of chemical structure, it has to do with containing lots of carbon-carbon double bonds. Terpenes tend to smell "scratchy", "woody", and have texture.

    Also Firstantol is the only...
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    Re: Lemon Accord

    I have C-9 aldehyde. It's sometimes described as "rose" or "lemon" but doesn't really smell that way to me. It smells rather maybe like just the very waxy aspect in rose petals, sort of soapy a bit,...
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    Re: Lemon Accord

    It's your claim that lavender eo will somehow make a big difference from using linalool in this lemon accord??
    Even though linalool will probably be a trace ingredient, or used in small quantity,...
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    Re: Lemon Accord

    I'm not sure that L-limonene is the same as S-limonene.

    I seem to have trouble bringing up any clear and unambiguous sources on this.

    Maybe you are right, I found this:

    "Thus the two isomers...
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    Lemon Accord

    Creating realistic accords for sour citrus, like lemon, is not easy. And one may wonder why not just use the real thing. But there are several practical advantages to synthetic citrus accords rather...
  67. Replies
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    Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    I've found that no synthetic sandalwood chemical truly smells quite the same as the real thing, unfortunately. Though they can come fairly close.
    Javanol to me has a beautiful smell with a pleasant...
  68. Re: Anyone work with Matsutake? Anyone capture the scent successfully?

    You might want to try Okoumal.
  69. Replies
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    Re: Additives to increase projection?

    I've found that Trimofix is to fragrance as MSG is to food in a Chinese restaurant.
    Be careful, it's pretty potent stuff, you don't want to go around using large amounts of it like you can with Iso...
  70. Re: Interesting (maybe) bergamot comparison

    I consider myself somewhat of an expert on the chemistry of fragrance of citrus oils, and my personal opinion that I've come to develop is that we may likely never know the true secrets of what makes...
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    Re: Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    I like the smell of coffee, sometimes ambiently drifting in the background, but I would never want to spray myself with a fragrance to smell like it.

    It's a little to overpowering and difficult...
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    my new fragrance formula

    I'd like to share with you my latest formula. It's an unusual one.

    Amboryl Acetate 50% 10ml
    Cedramber 50% 5ml
    Piconia 50% 4ml
    Prismantol (fully saturated in alcohol) 9ml
    Trimofix 50% 4ml...
  73. Replies
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    Re: How to make Neroli Portofino style accord?

    What type of sweetness is it? Is it a floral sweetness or an edible sweetness?
    If it's a floral sweetness, you can probably just add benzyl benzoate. That may likely be the solution.
    There's also...
  74. Replies
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    Re: How to make Neroli Portofino style accord?

    This might be off-topic here, but Orange Flower Ether has characteristics that can be a bit reminiscent of neroli. It's very potent, sharp heady alcoholic perfume, probably better used to give an...
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    Re: Abercrombie Fierce formula?

    Pamplefleur is a bit of a mouth-puckering rhubarb smell, very slight fake vetiver nuance. I wouldn't describe as a clean grapefruit, more like blood orange edible zing, or guava, leaning much more...
  76. Thread: Pine Note

    by parker25mv
    Replies
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    8,927

    Re: Pine Note

    Bornyl acetate is said to have a fresh pine note.
  77. Re: Need Clarification about aging and finished product

    Actually, just the opposite is true. If you want those essential oils to last a long time, the best thing to do is to not have any water in there, or very little water.
    A cologne is typically mostly...
  78. Re: methyl pamplemousse (grapefruit note) review

    Maybe if I can describe the difference this way:
    Methyl pamplemousse would be more in the direction of a floral sweet (benzyl benzoate) woody, and pamplefleur would be more in the direction of...
  79. Replies
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    Re: Abercrombie Fierce formula?

    Apparently I'm not the only individual to notice the "grapefruit" connection.

    Some excerpts from a review by Zealot Crusader, June 6, 2019 :

    "These were the ozonics of the 90's retrofitted with...
  80. Replies
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    Re: Benzyl Alcohol & Benzyl Benzoate

    Benzyl benzoate is usually added (in large volume) for floral sweetness.
    The natural sweetness from many types of flowers actually come from benzyl benzoate, so it is not really that unnatural.
    ...
  81. Re: methyl pamplemousse (grapefruit note) review

    Another comparison of methyl pamplemousse head to head with pamplefleur:

    Methyl pamplemousse: exquisite green, acetate, "scratchy" wood grapefruit skins,
    sour, juicy a bit, almost floral
    almost...
  82. Re: methyl pamplemousse (grapefruit note) review

    Kind of off-topic but I found these descriptions for the different enantiomers of Pamplefleur:

    (2R,4S)-Pamplefleur - natural, fruity odor in the direction of grapefruit and rhubarb, close to...
  83. Re: methyl pamplemousse (grapefruit note) review

    I'd like to compare and contrast Methyl Pamplemousse with Pamplefleur.
    While they are both "grapefruit", they are two completely different sides of grapefruit.
    Methyl Pamplemousse is in a much...
  84. Replies
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    Re: Abercrombie Fierce formula?

    You know, I'm wondering if there could be a hint of Pamplefleur in the formula. The smell of Pamplefleur strongly reminds me of the sort of pungent and cedary grapefruit note I seem to be able to...
  85. Re: descriptions of some new fragrance chemicals

    Interesting, I think I also get a very subtle synthetic vetiver smell from Prismantol, but it's not very strong and buried below the menthone smell.
  86. Re: descriptions of some new fragrance chemicals

    Well, I'm glad there's someone who can appreciate Orinox.
    I really wanted to and tried to like this one, but I've just come to the conclusion I can't stand it.
    It's that piercing cloyingly...
  87. Re: descriptions of some new fragrance chemicals

    Prismantol -
    in very low concentrations almost a creamy maple wood
    subtle ginger, cardamom effect, woody, almost sort of ambery, reminds me of an old patchouli soap bar.
    green stems, almost...
  88. Re: Veratraldehyde color stability question

    Unfortunately methyl vanillin isn't really much better than vanillin when it comes to discoloration.

    If you want a chemical explanation, the problem is the oxygen on the meta (4-) position...
  89. Re: descriptions of some new fragrance chemicals

    Okoumal - This one is difficult to describe. does not seem very strong, either that or I quickly become anosmic to it.
    The smell reminds me of crushed up acorns, maybe almost toffee but not at all...
  90. Re: Chemical constituents of Gardenia fragrance

    I get a sweet tea smell from the gardenia variety 'Crown Jewel' (a cold hardy hybrid variety). Some 4-Oxoisophorone (ketoisophorone, pretty commonly available) might be useful here.
    This variety...
  91. Replies
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    Re: Tuberose and Vetiver???

    Actually both the smell of tuberose and vetiver have something unique in common, coincidentally. They both have a sort of rubbery feeling, I would say, but rubbery in good ways. In fact I was...
  92. Re: recommend me a fragrance without this list of notes

    I found another one:
    Costume National Homme

    From the description, it seems an awfully lot alike to Emblem Mont Blanc.
    But one of the reviews said it was like Santal 33 by Le Labo except with...
  93. Replies
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    Re: idea for mock oud accord

    That's true of course, they smell very different, but they all have a very similar type of effect, in this category of materials.


    I don't think Cedryl acetate has the same effect. Though I do...
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    Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    I get a pine sap or heartwood of Douglas Fir feeling from Piconia.
    I also become anosmic to it fairly quickly, so at stronger concentrations it takes a while until I can smell it again.
    I would...
  95. Replies
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    Re: Maturing reactions

    Yes, in general, it's best to keep perfume fragrances from exposure to too much air, if they are going to be stored for long periods of time.
    And important to keep the bottle out of exposure to...
  96. Replies
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    Re: Maturing reactions

    This is a really good question. To some extent it really depends on the exact fragrance chemicals, and I feel that certain fragrance chemicals in particular may have more potential likelihood for...
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    Re: Hermitage Oils minimum order 100Ä???

    In my opinion, if a business is willing to deal with smaller orders, they'll be more likely to get reviews and have their name spread by word of mouth, and some of those customers who initially made...
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    Re: Oud reconstitution

    It's more subtle and subdued, in a refined sort of way. I don't want to give the wrong message, Cedramber is not anywhere near the same league as maltol or those other gourmand fragrance notes.
    ...
  99. Re: Looking for non musk/woody amber base note ideas

    For a woody peppery smell, there is β-caryophyllene. It almost smells like a fine incense wood, but it is in transparent black pepper sort of way. It's a pretty common fragrance chemical, even used...
  100. Re: Looking for non musk/woody amber base note ideas

    I am not sure I understand exactly what you were asking, I'm presuming you are wanting a woody and/or amber smell, so long as it is non-musky?
    To answer your original question, I would consider...
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