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  1. Re: IFF Captive, until now, available to us at PSH! (Edenolide)

    Yeah it's a lot like Appleide, I gotta say both are fruity in an Ambrettolide kind of way but fresher, Edenolide is more on the cleaner white musk perhaps even floral end and less fruity and Appleide...
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    Re: My mixes suck

    Man you are a welcome sight for this board, when I thought it couldn't get any better. So many amazing members regularly chiming in, got me dazzled.
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    Re: My mixes suck

    Sometimes a touch of Clary Sage can give your mids a masculine 'perfume-like' dry down, same goes with ingredients like Muguet, they open up your top-mids, and also something like just a trace of...
  4. Re: This word doesn't mean what you think it means, not anymore anyway. Important.

    If they reproduce similar GCMS results, if not identical more power to them. I am not against finding sustainable and nature friendly substitutes instead of pulling from nature directly, they do need...
  5. Re: Perfume Game: Summer's night near the coastline / beach

    So is it best perfume concept/idea or best smelling perfume that will win?
  6. Re: Perfume Game: Summer's night near the coastline / beach

    Yeah I'm on my 15th iteration lol, making something smell unique and equally good is like trying to ride a bike backwards.

    I'm just going to take my time until it smells good, however long it may...
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    Re: What makes a perfume a perfume?

    Yeah I agree with Bill in that a perfume has to have a level of complexity to the extent that it's characteristic. I don't think getting into the 'nitty gritty' details is necessary but it's...
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    Re: What makes a perfume a perfume?

    So what I gleaned from what you're saying Bill is that a perfume must contain at the very least a set of middle notes consisting of at least three different categories such as wood floral and musk as...
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    What makes a perfume a perfume?

    Just curious about how one could define a perfume, and where do you draw the line between accord, fragrance oil, and perfume? Are there particular ingredients or combinations of ingredients that...
  10. Re: Most frustrating part for creating a perfume

    I spend 90% of my perfume time thinking, researching, 5% studying and comparing/contrasting aromas, and 5% actually blending. I simply am trying to keep my material usage down while learning at the...
  11. Re: Perfume Game: Summer's night near the coastline / beach

    Anything goes I guess
  12. Re: Perfume Game: Summer's night near the coastline / beach

    Sounds good Jolieo
  13. Re: Perfume Game: Summer's night near the coastline / beach

    Alright sweet I'm in.

    I'm going to go for a trendy but niche style fragrance, with risky atmospheric elements which make it unique and daring for me, I guess this would be more in line with a Tom...
  14. Re: Perfume Game: Summer's night near the coastline / beach

    I'll join, hopefully I can get a good concept going here. Sounds fun.

    Paul will you accept Lyral in the formulas? Or anything else noteworthy for that matter?
  15. Re: What leather molecule was used in TF TL and Oro 1920?

    Well I stand corrected, I didn't know there were that many, I own 3 of them under different names and they all smell pretty similar to me, forgive my assumptions.
  16. Re: What leather molecule was used in TF TL and Oro 1920?

    All of the quinolines smell basically the same on the surface, the major differences are subtle at best and likely come later in the dry down (hours). I'd recommend just going with IBQ because it's...
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    Re: Pineapple Blossom Essantial Oil

    It's likely a fantasy accord, many things in nature that produce scent cannot be distilled into oil or made into an absolute so they are made into approximations called accords or fragrance oils.
  18. Thread: Green

    by chyprefresh
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    Re: Green

    I second Triplal, it adds a juicy realistic green effect in very light trace and the grassy part goes away.

    Or Cucumber Aldehyde, however it is one of the strongest materials I own. Have mine...
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    Re: The definitive water topic

    The additional water changes the 'jumping off point' on your skin for the alcohol, which affects the fragrance evaporation phase, this might benefit more top heavy fragrances.
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    Re: Advice for "lifting" my perfume recipe?

    I agree, many naturals are very hard to closely mimic and some are still irreplaceable, but that's rare. What I'm getting at is the desirable aspects of a material can be isolated and turned up...
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    Re: Advice for "lifting" my perfume recipe?

    Gaining lift naturally will require the use of lots of top notes via citruses, and natural citrus oils don't last very long and aren't very stable, plenty of synthetic musks are superior to 'real'...
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    Re: Advice for "lifting" my perfume recipe?

    That's your problem, perfumes are not meant to be natural only, most remarkable perfumes are the ones with synthetics and isolates in tandem with naturals. You could definitely stand to gain from...
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    Re: Advice for "lifting" my perfume recipe?

    trace of lime oxide?
  24. Re: Vetiveryl acetate haiti cheaper substitutes

    There's no 'cheap' alternative
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    Re: Anyone try mixing Iso super & Ambroxan?

    I just enjoy ranting sometimes, don't take it personally, great to hear your input as always.
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    Re: Anyone try mixing Iso super & Ambroxan?

    Yeah well, those 2 fragrances are major teachers in terms of successful perfume compositions, so it seems 1% is a pretty poor suggested usage. I agree that one should play by their own rules, but...
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    Re: Anyone try mixing Iso super & Ambroxan?

    I had an off-hand question about Ambroxan etc usage, why I find suggested usage at 'Up to 1% of total concentrate' but find some formulas and GCMS use well over 10%, just curious why the suggested...
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    Re: Is Liberty Naturals legit?

    I only buy naturals from tried and true perfumery suppliers, sure it limits what I can buy, but I know I'm getting the real deal. It also helps that I try to steer away from using naturals as often...
  29. Thread: Blackberry

    by chyprefresh
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    Re: Blackberry

    Thanks for your input parker.

    I am still curious how blackberry and blackcurrant compare, as I have never smelled real blackcurrant, juice or anything, this is mostly because the term 'black'...
  30. Thread: Blackberry

    by chyprefresh
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    Re: Blackberry

    Doesn't plum have blackberry nuances?
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    Re: I think I am done with Aventus

    I've owned 17t01 and it's not that different to what is available now, especially considering it's been 3 years almost, any changes are being exaggerated for reasons I don't know. This forum is...
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    Re: Cassis and blackcurrant

    Yup, I prefer the term sulfurous though, cat piss sounds so degrading to something I love.

    And I agree Cassis Base is one strong m'****er :coolold:
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    Re: Cassis and blackcurrant

    I take it back, Cassiffix is really weak, I have to really dig in to smell it on my skin with that 5% dilution. I'm gonna have to say 25% at minimum, it smells strong from the bottle but that's...
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    Re: Cassis and blackcurrant

    Okay so yeah, at 5% Cassiffix is beautiful, it does have that fruity berry aspect but it is pretty soft, at least 10x less pronounced than Cassis Base in terms of power, i think if used correctly the...
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    Re: Cassis and blackcurrant

    I'll give Cassiffix another go in a 5% dilution, it got stronger when I diluted it from 100% to 25%. I'll report back my findings.
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    Re: I think I am done with Aventus

    I'm going to add one more thing, the thread title is somewhat correct that Aventus is over, in a sense that batch variations don't exist anymore, the fun of Aventus is over, and with that this whole...
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    Re: Cassis and blackcurrant

    Nah, I own it and it's just as sulfurous as my other materials, in fact it's more sulfurous the more I dilute it lol. Cassis Base is the most fruity rendition and superior, Oxania is also really...
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    Re: Cassis and blackcurrant

    Thanks.
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    Cassis and blackcurrant

    Just curious what real blackcurrant smells like because every cassis/blackcurrant material I own has a heavy sulfurous aspect, but the perfumes I've smelled that lay claim to using blackcurrant smell...
  40. Re: The line between "natural" and "synthetic"?

    Useless info but technically everything is a natural as it was extracted from Earth which we call nature, but the line between calling something synthetic or natural for labeling purposes I don't...
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    Re: Your single favorite element

    Probably beta Damascone, rich, tobacco, fruity plum rose, wine-like so versatile and so little is needed.
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    Re: Fragrance help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Very cool man
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    Re: Fragrance help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I'm almost positive it isn't in the original Old Spice recipe, DHM was invented in the 1984 if I recall correctly.
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    Re: Fragrance help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Yeah I totally agree with blending fragrance oils to begin with, it's fun easy and gets your creativity spinning, it is not perfumery though. Perfumery is blending individual aroma chemicals and...
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    Re: what is this note?!

    Pretty sure it's ambroxan in conjunction with something like vanillin, very mass appealing, rounding, especially with vanillin.
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    Re: Working with fir balsam absolute

    I have Fir Balsam Oliffac and am curious how it stands up to a high quality absolute?
  47. Re: Oakmoss Absolute!!! Can you share a masculine recipe that includes this?

    Oakmoss is effective in small amounts, perhaps you are overdosing it.
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    Re: Replacement for Galbanum Oil

    Yeah I got Galbanum my last order, very interesting but STRONG material, kinda expensive.

    However I think Triplal might be your best bet, but in very extreme traces.
  49. Thread: Beer scent

    by chyprefresh
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    Re: Beer scent

    Styrallyl Acetate (Gardenol) has a carbonated aspect, definitely good for a freshly opened beer bottle smell, should go well with hops. Fizzy and uplifting, very effective even in very low amounts.
  50. Re: Vertofix vs Vertofix Couer vs Methyl cedryl ketone

    I like to stick to or adjust to what will be more readily available in the future for obvious reasons, but if the quality is worth buying the Coeur (Heart) version then please let it be known.
  51. Thread: Questions

    by chyprefresh
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    Re: Questions

    I would put tiny dabs of your expensive materials on paper strips, get some chip clips to hold them together in an array and and put the strips in different combinations and wave them in the air to...
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    Re: Aventus batch numbers, part 2

    Got a sample of 10K02, it's hilarious how different this is than current Aventus, totally different fragrance almost. It's so much brighter leaning jasmine, pineapple and peppery, it comes screaming...
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    Re: Beach fragrance missing something

    Think about a seaweed accord, perhaps a very light trace of ambrinol
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    Re: Confused over notes...

    Everyone had something useful to say in a unique way, how cool is that?
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    Re: Confused over notes...

    It's complicated, but some base note naturals have top note molecules in small amounts so while it's a base heavy material it will still affect the top noticeably if you use enough of it, same goes...
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    Re: Rush with a spark

    Interesting.
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    Re: Rush with a spark

    Thanks, I really would like to have some GCs though, just for a proverbial North Star, but I'm not holding out hope.
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    Re: Rush with a spark

    I have basically 0 GCs of real perfumes, let alone any I can go out and buy smell and compare, everything I am doing is by nose, demo formulas and hints here and there. So I have to trust the...
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    Re: Rush with a spark

    From Creating Perfume: Suggested use-levels are from 0,2% to 6% for most fragrances, but for detergent and fabric softener applications, up to 20% can be used. A little surprised to see it being...
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    Re: Rush with a spark

    I thought Tonalid was supposed to be used in traces-a few %?
  61. Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    The cost to get a GCMS makes other means more viable such as getting an absolute, Co2 or distillation of said material rendering this a slow and ancient method. The companies or people who have the...
  62. Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    Curious if someone has done a cigarette tobacco tincture, like that Buglers loose cig tobacco stuff? I wonder if it would be safe on the skin in dilution?

    Upon further research it is unsafe for...
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    Re: What pairs well with orange blossom?

    Welcome Noobsinth! You seem to know your materials quite well for a beginner!

    I'm going to have to say that's a full on perfume attempt! If you're still hesitant about the orange blossom facet...
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    Re: How to make a cheap rose wood base

    You probably should put a disclaimer at the top of the first post.
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    Re: How to make a cheap rose wood base

    While I agree, it's a little nit picky to nag him about. We should all be a little nicer to Parker, he tries his best and enjoy his company.
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    Re: Ashes accord?

    Hey I have a material called Methyl Nicotinate that has an ashy, wet, put-out cigarette quality and it's strong as all heck but it doesn't project or jump out at you, I want the ash to jump out at...
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    Re: Stale mineral, musty?

    I'm planning using real oakmoss abs so Evernyl is obsolete, and I dislike Evernyl quite a bit, I am not the minority here. Thanks for your input.
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    Re: Stale mineral, musty?

    Thanks for that first suggestion. I have no idea where to find patchouli like that and Sylvamber/Timbersilk are a little more warm woody, silky than stale to my nose. Perhaps oxidized Sylvamber,...
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    Stale mineral, musty?

    So far a few I have are Olibanum Resinoid, kind of stale, mineral, balsam. Ambrocenide, stale dry scratchy wood. M-Nicotinate stale extinguished cigarette, ash. Leatherinol, stale metallic leather....
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    Re: Has my Iso E Super gone sour?

    I had the same thing happen, however I had dropper tops in those bottles which let air in over a period of time, same smell and everything. What's funny is my Timbersilk didn't under the same...
  71. Re: which of us has economic income with perfumes and cosmetics?

    Man, the price disparity between your U.S. and EU bottles will be high since real oakmoss substitutes are so expensive. It's hard to just replace materials like that on a whim. Evernyl is so far...
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    I'll step in, you seem to be asking for just that, a magic answer to your needs, there is no one answer or blend of molecules that can answer a generic question. You need to go through the dreadful...
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    Re: Creating a dry wood base

    Ambrocenide
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    Re: cold blue waters of Baltic Sea

    Ambrinol inspired ambergris accord and some watery ocean notes, floating driftwood and some salt, build around that I suppose.
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    Your points have been well made.

    Yep, catch you around.
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    I say non restricted in a sense that it's beyond enough for you to do what you need to do in a formula.
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    Totally, I believe it myself, but when the IFRA steps in and heavily restricts a molecule beyond reasonable amounts and big dog company over here has a non restricted replacement held captive,...
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    We have fundamentally different ideal worlds, you and I. That's fine, I prefer to lean towards anarchy, not in a chaotic sense but in a sense that everyone deserves a chance, no matter what the...
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    But you mentioned selling perfumes such that a perfume company would be required, which I eluded to, to make that $5,000 investment blossom and endanger a larger company.
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    Good, someone bigger and better will step up and might make BETTER perfumes, that's a good thing. Like I said, progress in fragrances is more important than any one company's success, I don't feel...
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    Right because any Joe has a a well versed GCMS expert waiting in the wing, a sales force and website with expectant customers and bottles and packaging for their new perfume formula they just copied....
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    China is already involved in everything, and will steal their way to the top. Since when are IP safe from them? It's kind of irrelevant to my point. Companies SHOULD charge extra for their...
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    It's not just about Lyral, it's the premise that this is occuring at all. This problem could get worse in the future, we don't know. I want it nipped in the bud.

    Hey, Givaudan can charge a fee...
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    The fragrance formulas should be protected to a degree enough so it doesn't smell the same. I respect the work that someone does, but not if it was because nobody else had the same palette to have...
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    They also prevent someone else from being able to use it, which in turn limits another perfumers palette thus limiting perfumery. This is a fundamental issue we disagree on I guess. I'm more on the...
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    And how do you explain how Joe Perfumer is going to overcome the Lyral restriction when they need a muguet with the same effect, when Givaudan has (Mahonial) basically a 1:1 replacement with no IFRA...
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    Once again, I disagree that the industry would stop innovating. The sheer number of new people entering the scene and healthy competition would more than make up for these these sorry companies and...
  88. Replies
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    If GCMS are in fact as accurate as you say, the copying problem already exists and the industry should go open source. These big companies have a big enough advantage already, monetarily and...
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    I know that you can get the heart of the perfume, the bulk of what makes it smell a certain way via GCMS, how it runs, but the trace elements get lost in the shuffle so to speak. How could one...
  90. Replies
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    How could you possibly know all of this for a fact? It seems like proprietary information, trade secrets.
  91. Replies
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    It's fine, I felt like talking about them anyways.
  92. Replies
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    I also wasn't aware that GCMS were that accurate where identical copies were possible, interesting.
  93. Replies
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    I'm sorry but the points you trying to make only fortify all my points. You just proved that captives give advantages that make a big difference, enough to make or break someone's fledgling career. ...
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    I totally see where you're coming from, I respect that, but compared to any other form of art or anything else, perfume is one of the hardest arts to copy from. For example, music you can just record...
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    Good point, sometimes you just can't eek out that last mile to get that needed effect because it's not possible, the required ingredient is proprietary. However, captives won't stop me from making...
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    Re: white ambergris oil

    Bill is right, don't waste your time overpaying for nature's less bountiful ocean turd, there are cheaper and more bountiful alternatives that should suit your needs. In all likelihood, if a perfume...
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    Re: white ambergris oil

    I dilute my ambergris is DPG, it's better this way.
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    Re: BHT in the diluted raw materials

    Yeah I mostly meant top notes, idk why I keep saying volatile. Also, not sure why any well regarded material released by aroma suppliers might have stability problems in a few short days or why...
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    Re: BHT in the diluted raw materials

    Considering the volatile ingredients in the blend could be hurt by oxidation during maceration, it would make sense to include the antioxidant BHT prior to maceration.
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    It's as simple (or complex) as making a complete perfume. In my humble opinion, a perfume should not be considered done until the wow effect has been achieved. Anything less is a missed opportunity...
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Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000