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    Re: The enfleurage method.

    Good for you.
  2. Re: Newbie questions / Help working with Benzoin Absolute and Vanilla Absolute?

    Whilst we take pleasure from our successes; we can learn from our failures. But only if we can remember why it was we failed.
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    Re: The enfleurage method.

    Good for you. Let's hope that the acres of rain forest removed for the production of Palm oil will feel the benefit.
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    Re: Deer Musk vs Musk Ketone

    Price, and synergy of smell. Musk Ketone was developed during the 1880s, for fragrances that used only Musk tincture you need to look at pre-1880. In my book by Poucher, pretty well every...
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    Re: The enfleurage method.

    Water is never used; why would it be?
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    Re: The enfleurage method.

    The fat of choice was, I believe, pig fat as it was the least smelly, and worked well in the Enfleurage process. I would hope that the use of Palm oil is discouraged; Palm oil farming has caused...
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    Re: Deer Musk vs Musk Ketone

    OK, I misunderstood you; I thought you had a fragrance with 10.0% Musk Ketone. Sorry.

    To compare two ingredients, simply dip them and smell side by side. You should be able to tell which is...
  8. Re: Newbie questions / Help working with Benzoin Absolute and Vanilla Absolute?

    Whatever you do, and however you do it please write it down. If you don't make notes all the time you will forget what you have done. I have experienced this myself!
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    Re: Deer Musk vs Musk Ketone

    How do you get 10.0% Musk Ketone to dissolve in anything?
  10. Thread: Bht

    by David Ruskin
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    Re: Bht

    BHT is commonly used in fragrances which are prone to oxidation, most often when exposed to the air. So it would be used in a Talc or a Pot Pourri fragrance, or in a fragrance with a lot of Citrus...
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    Re: The enfleurage method.

    Enfleurage is a labour intensive method of extracting the fragrant part of a few flowers. It depends upon the fact that some flowers continue to produce volatiles after they have been picked (the...
  12. Re: Newbie questions / Help working with Benzoin Absolute and Vanilla Absolute?

    Don't work in volumes; it cause more problems than it solves. If you are serious, get yourself a balance and work in weights. It is so much easier.

    Any other questions have been answered...
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    Have you heard from WT yet, he seems to have gone very quiet.
  14. Thread: Saffron

    by David Ruskin
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    Re: Saffron

    If PG works, try DPG, which is a much more useful solvent for Perfumery.
  15. Thread: Saffron

    by David Ruskin
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    Re: Saffron

    If your Saffron does not dissolve in absolute alcohol it isn't an Absolute. Try a variety of solvents with a variety of polarities; DPG, DEP, IPM, Benzyl Benzoate, and Benzyl Alcohol. If none of...
  16. Thread: Bht

    by David Ruskin
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    Re: Bht

    BHT is an antioxidant and prolongs the life of a fragrance, especially one that has a high Citrus content.
  17. Thread: Bht

    by David Ruskin
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    Re: Bht

    Ethanol isn't restricted, but it must be denatured or else you have to pay duty. There is water in the ethanol used, although not much.
  18. Re: Grateful for an endowment to PK Perfumes

    As little reformulation as possible, I hope. Wonderful gift.
  19. Re: PA's Tobacco Accord and "Cedarwood oil"

    I would go with Texas or Virginian . Chinese could be a little too smoky, mind you if that is what you are after...
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    OK. Your tincture took one year to make. WT should make his in 8 hours. Actually 8 hours, 45 minutes. That is 3 orders of magnitude faster; as claimed.
  21. Thread: Saffron

    by David Ruskin
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    Re: Saffron

    Whilst both Turmeric and Saffron are bright yellow, and will colour your fragrance they do not smell similar, in my opinion. Saffron is much stronger.
  22. Re: What Made You Choose You Basenote Name?

    It's my name; and that's my photograph. I see no reason to hide.
  23. Thread: Saffron

    by David Ruskin
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    Re: Saffron

    Safronal is available, but restricted. As is Saffron abs.
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    Whatever you want mumsy. All we need is for you to tell us how long it took for you to tincture, so that WoodyTabac can extract the same starting material 100 times faster; as he claimed he could...
  25. Thread: Bht

    by David Ruskin
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    Re: Bht

    Never use water in a perfume. Surely you must realise this by now. If you must dissolve BHT in anything, use DPG (Dipropylene Glycol), and make a 10.0% solution.
  26. Thread: Bht

    by David Ruskin
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    Re: Bht

    You should work by weight, so it is 0.1% weight. As BHT is a power (usually) it will be difficult to measure a volume accurately.
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    You are being too generous mumsy. I would have thought one starting material would be enough. Have you prepared tinctures from all these, and if so are they ready to be used? We need to know...
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    Re: Vintage musk usage and odor and Jicky

    Civet was commonly used to line the insides of gloves. Patchouli was used as a moth proofer for silk shawls, and so became popular. Everybody stank to high heaven. Light for us would have been...
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    Re: Vintage musk usage and odor and Jicky

    You may well be right , and it is Musk Xylene that is the problem. If you can get pure Musk Ketone, then you are laughing.
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    Re: Vintage musk usage and odor and Jicky

    Tonquitone, and possibly Shangralide will make for a good substitute, even though nothing can replace the real stuff. Depending on how you feel about using Nitromusks, there isn't much that can...
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    Re: Benzyl acetate?!?

    I have never used natural Benzyl Acetate, and from memory don't think that I have even smelled it. I have never had a problem with the synthetic stuff. I guess you can get used to anything.
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    Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    Eugenol and iso Eugenol are similar to Methyl Eugenol and Methyl isoEugenol, but they are stronger, more harsh and more strident. The Methyl chemicals, are softer. Please be aware that Methyl...
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    Re: Benzyl acetate?!?

    Smell some good Jasmin, that's all you need. Benzyl Acetate is one of the building blocks of Perfumery, and is probably found in any fragrance you care to name. It provides a uniform...
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    Re: Expressing Orange Peels

    Orange oil isn't usually distilled, but expressed.
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    Re: SuperGirl perfume making game

    No, Urea is an odourless, white crystalline solid, of no use to Perfumers. A very good protein solvent however, and used in some cosmetic preparations, I believe.
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    Re: SuperGirl perfume making game

    Look at Ocimene for that.
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    Re: Vintage musk usage and odor and Jicky

    I would imagine that the original Jicky would have used natural Musk tincture. Guerlain were always keen to use new synthetics (Coumarin and Vanillin in Jicky; Ethyl Vanillin in Shalimar), so if...
  38. Re: Looking for master destiller advice (essential oil)

    Storage is vital. In glass, or lacquer lined containers,
  39. Replies
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    Re: SuperGirl perfume making game

    I would add Frescile, if you can get it. Floralozone. Rose Oxide, definitely; Nerol Oxide. Tridecene nitrile, or Sinocitril.
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    Re: SuperGirl perfume making game

    I agree with the above. Givaudan's Oakmoss Givco is supposed to be good, but I'm afraid there is nothing to replace the real deal. You could try some Algue absolute, if you can get it, with...
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    Re: SuperGirl perfume making game

    Urea is odourless.
  42. Replies
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    luigi do what you want; it matters not to me. It is my understanding that the definition of "Tincture" is an extract from a starting material directly into Ethanol. Usually the Ethanol may be...
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    I think you will find that the definition of "Tincture" is as I have explained it. Simply dissolving something that is alcohol soluble in alcohol is not Tincturing. It is simply making a...
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    Re: Physicists / chemists wanted

    I hate the term "Fresh", it means nothing.
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    Re: Physicists / chemists wanted

    1 WHY?
    2HOW?
    3 WHAT GAPS?
    Unless you measure every Aromachemical used, and even then, your data is a waste of time. What you are proposing to do, in a very amateurish way, will not help anyone...
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    I am looking forward to smelling the two samples immensely. No idea how long the starting material will take to reach you WT, but it will only take you a few hours to produce a tincture, won't it? ...
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    Re: Physicists / chemists wanted

    No. Not if the air conditioning is turned off at night, or it comes on and goes off depending on the ambient temperature, or many other things. You will be able to come and go in your brother's...
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    Re: Physicists / chemists wanted

    Unless you have a temperature controlled room, the temperature is going to vary throughout the experiment in an unpredictable way. Likewise the humidity, and atmospheric pressure. All of these...
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    I would imagine that mumsy has already filtered her tincture, ready for use.
  50. Thread: Dpg

    by David Ruskin
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    Re: Dpg

    OK, my first suggestion would be to use Ethyl Alcohol, but you say that this is difficult to obtain in India. IPA is never a good idea, it smells too much. Methanol should work in a similar way...
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    The samples we receive are satisfactory to the person who made them. Would you use your tincture with bits in? As you are the expert at speed tincturing Woods, you tell us.
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    Re: Physicists / chemists wanted

    Constant temperature is important, of course. How are you going to insure that there is constant temperature throughout the evaporation process?
  53. Thread: Boisiris

    by David Ruskin
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    Re: Boisiris

    Woody amber, bit like Iso E Super, but thicker.
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    Re: Physicists / chemists wanted

    "The temperature during the experiment is not relevant." If the equation works, then we can calibrate and use it to get evaporation numbers at any given temperature.

    So which is it?
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    Sorry Irina, for this exercise price is irrelevant; and in fact will cloud the issue. I feel very strongly about this.

    You try buying 200.0 Kg of Rose Absolute. Of course the "biggies' do...
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    I don't regard that as a Tincture; that is an alcoholic solution of Olibanum resin. A tincture is made by extracting the fragrant part of a starting material directly into ethanol, rather than...
  57. Thread: Dpg

    by David Ruskin
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    Re: Dpg

    What do you mean by "size up the volume"? Do you mean make a bigger batch of the same formulation, or do you mean dilute the concentrate you have made to make a wearable concentration?
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    Re: Free Fragrance Composition Software

    Seems to me that the data have not been programmed properly. Somebody doesn't understand decimal points.
  59. Replies
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    I doubt if mumsy could supply a good costed analysis. How much do dried mushrooms cost per kilo? For this exercise I don't think that is necessary.

    If you have a business with a fast turn...
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    Re: Top note Musks

    Just because something is regarded as a Base note, does not mean that it cannot be smelled at the beginning, at the Top. As always how a specific ingredient performs depends upon the rest of the...
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    I am used to using a 1-10 scale, but the principal is the same. We used such a scale when answering questions to do with performance, or function. How strong is this? By how much does this...
  62. Replies
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    Once again I feel you are a tad over complex. Sorry, don't get cross with me!! I had added my thoughts to your comments in capitals; it doesn't mean I'm shouting!! And thank you for laying it...
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    As usual Bill you are spot on; that is why I did not place too much importance on a questionnaire. All I do knows that if you are going to use one be dammed careful how it is constructed. It is...
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    So it seems we are not going to be judging the tinctures from dried mushrooms, but something else instead. Ho hum. Never mind, the comparison will still be interesting. As I understand it;...
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    Re: Physicists / chemists wanted

    Whatever you say boss; it's your experiment. I'm sure a "visual confirmation" will be as accurate as anything else you are likely to do. Temperature not relevant either? Interesting. And...
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    Re: Physicists / chemists wanted

    thomash I don't think any of this has anything to do with real life situations; do you?
  67. Replies
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    Re: Physicists / chemists wanted

    I see, you will deem that evaporation is complete merely by looking at the metal container. You won't weigh the container; empty, full, and over the time it takes for the weight to return to the...
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    Re: Favorite Lactones

    cis Jasmone is vital in creating a good Jasmin; it may be useful for your White Flower notes. It is expensive, but not as expensive as Jasmolactone.
  69. Re: Looking for master destiller advice (essential oil)

    Greg, you have distilled before? Sorry, I have not read all of these posts. You have some knowledge of distillation? In that case, do you not know anyone else who distills oils? I would be...
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    Re: Physicists / chemists wanted

    How will you check that total evaporation has occurred. Will you weigh your containers at regular intervals. Do you have constant temperature, humidity and pressure? I don't know what chemicals...
  71. Re: Looking for master destiller advice (essential oil)

    As far as I was aware Lavender oil contains very little Camphor, and what is there contributes to the typical odour. Difficult to judge quality, as any oil fresh off the still smells bad. You...
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    Re: Physicists / chemists wanted

    I was wondering what equipment you were waiting for, to conduct, what full panel of experiments. Could you share?
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    Re: Physicists / chemists wanted

    Am I detecting just a hint of backtracking?
  74. Replies
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    So mumsy you are going to provide Wood & Tobacco with the starting material, because you already have a tincture made from it. Excellent. That makes things simpler, and quicker. As the quick...
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    Re: Top note Musks

    Whilst all musks should be considered to be Base notes, as they last a long time on a smelling strip, most can be smelled at the start of a fragrance if enough is used, and the rest of the fragrance...
  76. Replies
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    Aging should not be considered for the fast extraction. It has been claimed by Wood and Tobacco that his dried mushroom powder tincture will be ready after 8 hours. I take that to mean it is...
  77. Replies
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    Wood and Tobacco, I thought you were going to provide mumsy with the dried mushrooms that you were using, so you have no need to ask what material she will be using. It must be the same as the...
  78. Replies
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    You have stated, in a previous post, that your method of tincturing is 1000x faster than the conventional way. So if it takes a year the old fashioned way, it will take you 8 hours. I'm looking...
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    You be careful.
  80. Replies
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    The aim of this exercise is to show which method of tincturing produces the best product. Not the quickest, just the best. Therefore it is vital that the starting material be the same for each...
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    Once again Bill I have to agree with you; I'm just trying to be helpful.
  82. Replies
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    I am trying to be as scientific as possible, and trying to test one thing at a time. The question to be answered is that does the sped up version of tincturing produce a material of the same...
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    Re: Amyl Salicylate

    Amyl Cinnamic Aldehyde and Hexyl Cinnamic Aldehyde smell very similar; soft, floral, Jasmin. Amyl Salicylate smells more green and bitter; often described as Clover. HCA and Amyl Sal have little...
  84. Replies
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    Why not. But we need to make very sure that we are all aware of the conditions and stick to them. Do we have two samples tinctured for the same length of time; one using mumsy's technique and the...
  85. Replies
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    I have neither the wherewithal nor inclination to start tincturing for myself; I know longer do Perfumery. You may be right and there will be no difference in quality, but as you haven't compared...
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    Sorry; what is W&T?
  87. Replies
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    Difficult to organise with you in Australia and mumsy in England. Also you would need exactly the same starting material, tinctured for the same length of time. Or would you propose samples that...
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    Oh dear, Irina, you do sound bitter! Where I last worked the women pretty well ran the place, my boss was a woman. I do agree that the pressure to speed things up has increased. The competition...
  89. Replies
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    Firstly I have always called myself a Perfumer, rather than a "perfumier". The French word is Parfumeur I believe. When "we" were taught, quality was paramount. Of course one has to be...
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    Irrespective of quality of the final result?
  91. Replies
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    "Just faster" to achieve what, exactly?
  92. Replies
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    So you aren't doing a comparison; you seemed to imply that you were. "the high-tech 'bag & squeeze' method is about 3 orders of magnitude faster" seems to imply you were comparing. How do you...
  93. Replies
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    So you are comparing the two techniques?
  94. Replies
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    When working the average time per brief was a month, which included Evaluation and Performance testing. And Of course I worked on more than one brief at a time. The longest I ever worked on one...
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    Whilst commercial Perfumery may be different, and I have spent 30 years or more in it, I hope that quality is still a major concern.
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    Re: Physicists / chemists wanted

    And what, after all that work has been done do you hope to achieve? Let's go through the chemicals you have randomly picked and see how they feature in Perfumery.

    Water: Not much use in a...
  97. Replies
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    Re: Odeur de Champignon

    I bake my own bread and a time consuming part of that is waiting for the dough to rise; waiting for the yeast to do its business. It can take an hour to an hour and a half depending. One way to...
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    Re: Incense musk

    It used to be mainly Musk Xylene. As that is now under a cloud I have no idea. Depends where you bought the incense.
  99. Replies
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    Re: Free Fragrance Composition Software

    There are several existing systems that Perfumers use to work using a computer. Two that come to mind are Fompack, and Winchem. Many others. All very reliable, and flexible. Unfortunately, of...
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    Re: Physicists / chemists wanted

    What theory?
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