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    Re: Bubble Gum Fragrance

    I could put this up on PellWall.com if there is sufficient interest ...

    ... also apologies for the long absence from this forum: business has been brisk.
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    Re: Best solvent for candles

    It took me a ridiculously long time to get round to it (sorry!) but DOA is now in the Pell Wall Shop.
  3. Re: Washing/Moisturising Hands/Cleaning Glassware

    For hands I normally just use ordinary liquid soap & water. However if you get something particularly disagreeable on your hands - either stinky or irritating - a good trick is to coat you hands in...
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    Re: Musky-rubbery Basenotes?

    I've never actually timed it but I'd say a lot more than minutes but certainly not days. Two or three hours depending on the solvent it's in is probably right. I have no plans to run a test with it...
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    Re: Waste - How Much/What You Do With It

    I had the opportunity a few months ago to talk to someone in the business about how hazardous waste liquid such as perfume materials are handled: I gather they are dripped steadily into a high...
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    Re: Cetalox + Hedione Mix

    I'd start with 90% Hedione to 10% cetalox.

    Amroxan is similar to cetalox but stronger. Iso E Super works well with theses too - add galaxolide and methyl ionone and you're in Grosjman Accord...
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    Re: Obtaining oils from overseas

    I've had some success doing this but I suspect only because I have Indian relatives there to do the negotiations. As a tourist it's difficult to avoid being had.
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    Re: Musky-rubbery Basenotes?

    Very common in white flower blends too. I'd never seen it as rubbery but I know what you mean now you've said it.
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    Re: Musky-rubbery Basenotes?

    Good thought, probably more likely than benzothiazole. Interestingly to get the skanky effect you need ambrocenide 10% in DPG. The crystal form is produced to a higher purity & is much cleaner...
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    Re: Waste - How Much/What You Do With It

    I do this too.

    The weather in Shropshire is rarely suitable for this to work sadly, but I do soak waste into paper cardboard or wood & leave it outside the back door. An Ambermax spill two years...
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    Re: Musky-rubbery Basenotes?

    I'm not sure it's really a base note but benzothiazole is sulphur-y without being as sewage, or as volatile, as DMS

    I can't think of a musk with that note I'm afraid.
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    Re: Advice on a formula

    Sure, I'll post here when it's in the shop
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    Re: Advice on a formula

    Actually I think this is rather an astute question. Letís say, for the sake of argument, that Petitgrain oil starts of with 50% terpenes: if you put twice as much plain petitgrain into your formula...
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    Re: Advice on a formula

    Paul if it helps I could take half a Kg and make it available on Pell Wall for those in Europe: does that work?
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    Re: Not popular AC part 1.

    That seems rather a lot. I could do a Kg for £99, but I fear shipping to Russia might make it uncompetitive - I do have other Russian customers though so maybe not. That price isnít on my website...
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    Re: Keeping the tea first

    Yes I might well have done, Iíve certainly supplied some things to the perfumer behind that house ... and now Iím starting to sound like a drug pusher!

    As Paul notes, itís also known as DMBCB,...
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    Re: Keeping the tea first

    Many thanks for the promo :)

    Of the available options I have, there are two Iíd particularly draw to your attention for your black tea, other than using a touch of the Green Tea Givco to aid...
  18. Re: Interrogation about the good scent company and safety regulation

    Yes, thatís what it means.

    However you need to know that those percentages that appear on TGSC pages are advisory and, as others have said, not always accurate.

    The IFRA and, if youíre...
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    Re: Degrees of Naturalness

    Me too, but Iím always a bit wary of the concept, because we only know what we know, so any given chemical may turn out to be nature identical at some point in the future.

    I gather one of the...
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    Re: Tobacco leaf essential oil

    At one time pure nicotine was used as a pesticide in, for example, commercial greenhouses. Iím not familiar with the details, but I think quite small amounts were simply heated in the enclosed space...
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    Re: Myrrh essential oil

    Possibly this, from Arctander, might help:



    he also says that
    I

    Distillation is certainly not my area, but just reading that makes me think what youíve made might, turbidity aside, be a...
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    Re: Degrees of Naturalness

    I think in the sense that the organism that creates it was modified you may well be right (though I donít know for sure). I do know that the legal rules about GMO claims in the EU would permit it to...
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    Re: Degrees of Naturalness

    I think it matters (or at least is worth thinking about) from a couple of perspectives:
    1) if you want to make claims about something being Ďnaturalí itís good to be clear what you mean by that -...
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    Re: AMBREIN oxidant

    Just briefly to add to this: people have been experimenting with ways to high-speed age ambrein for centuries. If it was easy aged ambergris wouldnít be the expensive commodity it still is.

    If...
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    Re: Degrees of Naturalness

    Good stuff!

    I think you may need one more category though, prior to Synthetic, which you’ve defined as being from a petrochemical source, there are also a large range of what we normally think of...
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    Re: Refrigerating diluted materials?

    On the citrus, remember the aldehydes in citrus are, in effect, heavily diluted - being only a small percentage of the total oil - so the risk of polymerisation is much reduced. According to...
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    Re: Poucher book

    I have volumes I and II of the 7th edition also bought second hand: both are useful.

    I also have a copy of the single-volume 10th edition that I inherited from another perfumer: itís a completely...
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    Re: Refrigerating diluted materials?

    Interesting question. I was about to say that I regularly use just one or two, which is true as far as it goes. However thinking about it a bit more, with the exception of MNA, the occasions where...
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    Re: Not popular AC part 1.

    I see heís still using my words: all of that was written by me, so oddly enough I agree with it.
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    Re: Making a Fragrance for an Oil Burner

    Just on the last part, as everyone else has contributed on the solvent question: Some materials you might consider for an earthy, dank sort of fragrance:
    Earthy pyrazine (youíll definitely need a...
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    Re: Minor Technicalities

    Great work, well worth pulling it all together :-)

    Itís triggered a thought:

    You briefly explore the idea of comparative sustainability between natural products and synthetics (grey energy). ...
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    Re: Solvent for room spray?

    Indeed!

    BHT is an antioxidant but not a preservative: I'm afraid preservatives are not my area of expertise. If you're on Facebook there's a group I'm involved in on making cosmetics that has...
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    Re: Top Notes for Organ

    I'd class those as middle to base notes, but as with all natural products & mixtures it's never so simple & they all certainly have top note effects, the materials I listed are more conventional...
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    Re: Top Notes for Organ

    Iíd recommend thinking about these:

    Centifolether (green-floral)
    Geranyl acetate (versatile fresh-floral)
    Linalyl acetate (very versatile fresh-herbal type)
    Orange Flower Ether (citrusy-floral)...
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    Re: Solvent for room spray?

    On shipping there are two answers to that:
    1) shipping flammable stuff on a big scale is, strangely enough, much easier than on a small scale: you simply use a hazmat courier. You have to pay more...
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    Re: Solvent for room spray?

    Alcohol is a good solvent for room sprays, but if you want to avoid that in order to keep the finished product non-flammable then youíre going to have to look at one of two option:

    1) Water-based...
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    Re: Way too sweet, girly perfumes. Help?

    Thatís very kind, thank you.

    Anti-tobacco isnít something Iíve every had experience of, but my guess is it is a blend intended for use by smokers to combat the smell of tobacco: at one time such...
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    Re: Refrigerating diluted materials?

    In my experience, most materials are fine kept in dark glass or opaque bottles in dilution (though I usually go to 10% rather than 20% I wouldnít expect that to make a difference).

    Even most...
  39. Re: Perfumers alcohol suppliers in UK aside from Mistral

    So far as I know, only me, and Iím selling the Mistral product, just as a convenience to buy alongside other things: if you want just the PA or are buying more than about a litre it will be cheaper...
  40. Re: Experience of Tolu balsam and peru balsam needed please

    You might like to have a look at this:

    http://pellwall-perfumes.blogspot.com/2015/03/tolu-balsam.html

    It documents the process of getting from the pure balsam to a 30% solution in a suitable...
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    Re: Way too sweet, girly perfumes. Help?

    Shipping costs are a problem, I recognise, but if youíre serious about the hobby youíre going to need to invest in some aroma chemicals - youíll never make anything resembling a commercial fragrance...
  42. Re: IFRA Standards - Discussion thread (Temporary partial version)

    Iím not aware of such a commission, but if you have the wherewithal itís an artistic challenge Iíd enjoy ;-) Honestly however it would be much more interesting to work on a fragrance consisting only...
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    Re: Timberol - EU supplier

    I donít really find any patchouli in it either, certainly not mint. Itís dry, woody, dusty, slightly animalic, very intense and long-lived. You can use it alongside patchouli and related compounds...
  44. Re: Suitable ACs to work with Maple Furanone?

    I think, other than extreme dilution as has already been said, the key to using maple furanone successfully is to blend it with other materials that will last a very long time so that you donít get...
  45. Re: SDA OR undenatured alcohol for selling perfumes

    You have only two viable options:
    1) Perfumerís Alcohol, which has some IPM and PG added to it in addition to the denaturants. Neither is toxic unless you drink it, in which case the denaturants...
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    Re: Discoloration through Tocopherol?

    Just going back to the Hedione part of this as the other option has already been explored, Iíve had Hedione go off - a sort of cardboard-like smell emerges - but Iíve never had it discolour to...
  47. Re: What to mix/layer with Aged Cambodian Oud?

    Honestly if you donít like it, the danger with that strategy is that youíll spend a lot of money on some very expensive rose and ruin it.

    If you can give me a clue as to what it is you donít...
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    Re: paper air freshener composition

    OK, well I canít say Iíve ever felt the need to create one of those, but I guess if you could come up with one that smelt genuinely nice (definitely not the mini-cab malaise) it could be useful and...
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    Re: Blood Accord

    I think my top choice there would be a combination of Cedramber and Vertofix - if you want it really dark maybe miss out the cedramber, but vertofix without it can be heavy. Iso E Super and others...
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    Re: paper air freshener composition

    Forgive me for being dense here, but when we talk about Ďpaper air freshenersí are we talking about those cardboard things that are found dangling from the mirror of mini-cabs?

    Usually smelling...
  51. Re: Where do you buy your favorite vanilla fragrance oil from, and what is the name of the fragrance

    Vanillin will dissolve well in ethanol, DPG and probably other solvents too. I have successfully made and kept a 50% solution in DPG (though getting that much powder to dissolve requires an...
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    Re: Blood Accord

    This is a difficult question and as ever the answer is about balance. Too little complexity and a perfume seems synthetic and unconvincing, too much and it becomes muddy and equally unconvincing. ...
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    Re: Auguasorb

    Thereís a whole range of materials called Ďbutaflorsí that are, or were at one time, proprietary to one of the big manufacturers that are extracted with butane, so thatís certainly something that is...
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    Re: Need help with formula

    Thanks, but donít worry, I was just amused at the idea. Botanists change the classification of plants all the time and old names frequently persist, resulting in endless confusion - itís part of the...
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    Re: Need help with formula

    Outdated? Hmm well Iíd suggest Steffen Arctander is outdated only in the sense that a bottle of 100 year old sandalwood oil is outdated. That is to say, old, difficult to get hold of and extremely...
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    Re: Need help with formula

    I found this from Arctander, which is quite interesting, he talks as well about rubra and Acutifolia but does not mention obtusa.
  57. Re: Where do you buy your favorite vanilla fragrance oil from, and what is the name of the fragrance

    I think my suggestion would be that you donít buy a fragrance oil at all but simply buy pure vanillin (or ethyl vanillin) and make that into a fragrance for yourself directly. If you wanted to you...
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    Re: Auguasorb

    Yes, I guess technically that would be an Ďabsolute from SFEí and no doubt even more expensive due to the extra processing, but might be economic for some materials ... the economics of extractions...
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    Re: Auguasorb

    Yes thatís my understanding too. I believe SFE (Supercritical Fluid Extraction) can be done with other materials than CO2, at least in principle, but even then I donít think there would be water...
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    Re: Blood Accord

    Yes good point, nerol has that Ďwetí aspect that contributes to the dewy petals part of a rose fragrance but could just as well be freshly spilled blood in the right context.
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    Re: Need help with formula

    Hedione is probably a good idea.

    Personally I really like the smell of fresh tuberose flowers, but itís certainly quite different from the smell of the absolute, which is what Tubereuse 184108...
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    Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    Ah yes, Iím familiar with this line: Iíve heard it several times over the last couple of years and the source can always be traced back to an IFF salesman!

    Iím sure from the perspective of the...
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    Re: Tea extraction

    I confess until I read this Iíd not considered the steam rising from the cup as part of a tea accord at all, but of course itís a vital part of the experience. If youíve not already tried it a...
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    Re: Blood Accord

    Cut and paste is always a blade with two edges isnít it? Itís caught me out often enough!

    BTW Iím pretty sure gandhajala is right about the rose oxide in the Beaufort fragrance ... I think I might...
  65. Thread: hello

    by Chris Bartlett
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    Re: hello

    Hello and welcome to Basenotes :)
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    Re: Auguasorb

    I found this:
    ďThis is a range of extracts derived directly from the botanical source, using a low temperature solvent extraction technique that retains the characteristic suite of aromatic...
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    Re: Need help with formula

    A couple of general thoughts first:

    When you say youíre working from GC-MS from research papers, are these GC-MS of some kind of extract (essential oil, absolute etc)? Or do you mean youíve got...
  68. Re: Diffuser carrier oil with added Denatured Alcohol (w 5% Methyl Alcohol)

    The material Iíve found most useful as a solvent for diffusers is MMB - 3-Methoxy-3-Methyl-1-Butanol, it has very low toxicity and high volatility. In the product description for it Iíve also given...
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    Re: Blood Accord

    I think you mean 1-octen-3-one?

    Itís obtainable, mainly because itís used in flavourings as I understand it, but I donít think itís all that stable either, though Iím outside my area of expertise...
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    Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    As this thread has been resurrected from the dead, I guess I should correct myself.

    Timbersilk most certainly isn’t pure gamma isomer, though it does have more of that isomer than Iso E Super.
    ...
  71. Re: What molecules make a scent more "Blue"?

    Fascinating: I thought I was the only one who experienced DHM as yellow!
  72. Re: Need suggestion for creamy base ingredient to add to composition

    As you have gamma-Octalactone you could try that too - for me itís a softer, creamier coconut note than C-18, but they work well together so both could be worth having.

    For volume in the base you...
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    Re: Maritima IFF

    Ventos will sell you a Kg or more ... eventually I plan to have Maritima in the Pell Wall shop but not yet Iím afraid.
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    Re: Mystery Mahogonate

    As I wrote that, I guess I should chime in: both Mahagonate and Poivrol are manufactured by Symrise and, having the same CAS number will be the same chemical, however they are clearly manufactured in...
  75. Thread: Coeur

    by Chris Bartlett
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    Re: Coeur

    Iíd agree with this.

    The truth is adding Coeur to a material name is just marketing - it doesnít mean anything consistent - except that the starting material was natural and something has been...
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    Re: White chocolate accord

    Interesting idea. To me oppoponax resinoid smells rather like caramel liqueur, but I can see how it could work very nicely as part of a white chocolate too.
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    Re: White chocolate accord

    It certainly is. Remarkably however, if you buy perfume in a shop at the airport, the ability of the airlines to make money from it makes it completely safe to fly. Itís a little know chemical...
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    Re: White chocolate accord

    Thanks! What Iím trying to build is not just a shop but also an information resource that will be complimentary with the less subjective data that Bill includes in the TGSC entries. Todayís...
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    Re: Which molecules used as perfume?

    Not intentionally, but I do find that often when Iím working Iíll get some AC or other on me and it can be interesting sometimes. Sometimes quite unpleasant though, as with for example para-Cresyl...
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    Re: The dark side of ACs

    ???
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    Re: White chocolate accord

    Iíve put some notes about materials for making authentic chocolate and cocoa accords in my product description for Cocoa Hexenal that you might like to check out, but for a simpler illusion of the...
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    Re: alpha ionone and alpha methyl ionone

    One of the reasons the so-called Grojsman accord has become so universal in modern perfumes is how flexible it is - there are some details about that taken from various sources in the product...
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    Re: The dark side of ACs

    I donít think anyone is using formaldehyde in perfumes so I wouldnít worry about that at all - itís just a scare story - US perfumes are also likely to be free of it despite a much less regulated...
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    Re: The dark side of ACs

    I think modern safety labelling requirements have to be taken lightly salted. The problem is that over time more and more materials have been placed in categories requiring labels, so the ability to...
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    Re: The dark side of ACs

    Acetonitrile, like formaldehyde, is prohibited from use in cosmetics throughout the EU.
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    Re: alpha ionone and alpha methyl ionone

    The IFRA standards which prohibit use of pseudo ionone and pseudo methylionone as fragrance ingredients, specify that up to 2% of these is permissible as an impurity in ionone or methyl ionone and...
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    Re: First Aroma Chemicals

    Thanks for the promo :-)

    Iíve now updated the Safraleine Product to go down to 10ml, just in case that helps anyone.
  88. Replies
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    Re: First Aroma Chemicals

    Just as an alternative approach to buying from Thailand, I think I have pretty much all those available in the Pell Wall ingredients webshop. With quite a few the minimum quantity I sell is 30g so...
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    Re: alpha ionone and alpha methyl ionone

    Thank you, that’s a very useful illustration.

    The structure of Irone Alpha is also extremely close: 6-Methyl-alpha-ionone, which according to Bedoukian again, was much more difficult to elucidate...
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    Re: alpha ionone and alpha methyl ionone

    Glad you enjoyed the interview, I seem to remember I ranted on about the madness of labelling Geraniol with the same warning symbol as caustic soda ...

    The Bedoukian is quite heavy going - a lot...
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    Re: Exaltolide (hard to dissolve)

    Iím sure thereís something in that too. Though I should point out that unless youíre buying 50Kg at a time you canít buy Macrolide Supra for $50/Kg ... if only!

    The big price difference was the...
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    Re: Floating droplets in my fragrance

    Others have already answered most of this, so Iíll just add that there are tutorials all over the web that give you rubbish advice such as using both sweet almond oil and ethanol together, adding...
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    Re: alpha ionone and alpha methyl ionone

    Itís terrifically complex as you say - thereís a nice explanation of it in the relevant chapter of ĎPerfume and Flavoring Syntheticsí by Bedoukian, which is very useful and I think Iíve quoted from...
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    Re: alpha ionone and alpha methyl ionone

    Here are some descriptions of the odours from other perfumers that you might find useful or interesting:

    Arctander says of alpha-iso-methyl ionone:

    Calkin & Jellinek on Methyl Ionones in...
  95. Replies
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    Re: Exaltolide (hard to dissolve)

    It certainly sounds like whatever you bought it wasnít exaltolide. For the benefit of people who may find this thread in future searches though Iíll just add a few thoughts that might be useful.
    ...
  96. Re: Making One's Own Molecule 01 (Straight Iso E Super)

    I love your variations: what a fun bit of exploration :-)
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    Re: Salicylate Bright Top Note Needed

    Iím clearly too late to be of use on this one but Iíll just add that I really like Prenyl acetate too, this is what I put in my product description for it:



    On the other hand I donít know...
  98. Re: Making One's Own Molecule 01 (Straight Iso E Super)

    Whatever you do don't waste your IES trying to spray it neat because it's too thick to spray. A 20% solution in ethanol is fine and there's no need to let it rest, it will be fit to use right after...
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    Re: my B-ionone is spoiled?

    In my experience beta-Ionone (and alpha-Ionone for that matter) keep extremely well as long as you take reasonable care of them (cool-ish and completely dark - I don’t keep mine refrigerated but the...
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    Re: Best inexpensive Fixatives?

    Me either, I donít think DPG has any useful fixative property, though IPM certainly does.

    So too do some odorous materials that have wide application such as Hedione.

    But as we keep saying on...
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