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    Re: What kind of cederwood is it?

    I would imagine that the majority of the lumber in LA comes from redwood, pine, fir and spruce.

    The wood of redwood it said to have a distinct odour while being worked. One source states that...
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    Re: Alcohol in Spain!

    The first ingredient is otherwise known as benzalkonium chloride. It has a faint almond or vinegar-like odour and a bitter taste. At 0.1% the odour should be very mild. However, there may be other...
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    Re: Alcohol in Spain!

    Altia Industrial may be able to supply you with trade specific denatured alcohol. See the section under "Lindrigt denaturerad etanol produkter":

    https://www.altiaindustrial.com/sv/produktsok
    ...
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    Re: Perfumery is done by weight.

    If the scales are graduated to say 0.01 g, then I wouldn't recommend weighing anything smaller than 0.02-0.05 g. Providing that the scales have been properly calibrated, that is. Even then, you...
  5. Thread: Alcohol smell

    by Pears
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    Re: Alcohol smell

    Yes, it's a good idea to compare the quality of the alcohol available to you. SDA 40 (US) and TSDA 1 (UK) are about as odourless as it gets in terms of denatured alcohol. You will need a permit or...
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    Re: Perfumery is done by weight.

    Volume is only really suitable for the early stages of testing, or if you only intend to use the fragrance for personal use.

    If you intend to use drops then I'd recommend that you read the...
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    Re: Perfumery is done by weight.

    Okay, I can't think of such a situation but if you or others find it useful then that is the main thing.
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    Re: Perfumery is done by weight.

    Paul, don't take this the wrong way but I'm a little surprised that you keep such a table. All that you need to do is take the desired concentration and subtract it from 100, every single time. No...
  9. Re: Reverse engineering Experts! What's this rose-like smell?

    Wardia is quite expensive, and while it could be in the fragrances that you mentioned it's unlikely to have been used in a cheap laundry soap. It could contain some of the components in Wardia,...
  10. Re: Reverse engineering Experts! What's this rose-like smell?

    As Renegade said, Dorinia is much more in your face with the damascone. The Givco smells fresher and has a note reminiscent of honeydew melon in the background.
  11. Re: Reverse engineering Experts! What's this rose-like smell?

    Both have a strong apple-like quality but as you alluded to, it's strongest in alpha damascone. Beta damascone has an additional blackcurrant note.
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    Re: Do you mix by weight or volume?

    If you're referring to the fact that the actual weight is often somewhere between the readings, then yes, that is one of the downsides to using digital scales for smaller amounts. This doesn't have...
  13. Re: Reverse engineering Experts! What's this rose-like smell?

    It could be beta damascone but he mentioned that it's not Dorinia, which happens to smell very strongly of beta damascone in it's opening. It could be one of the other damascones or simply be an...
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    Re: Do you mix by weight or volume?

    Indeed, mumsy, that's another method which works.

    Yet another method is to use volume to begin with and when you've found a formula that works, rather than using the densities to calculate the...
  15. Re: Reverse engineering Experts! What's this rose-like smell?

    I would second filousoth's point. Phenyl ethyl alcohol is commonly used in cheap laundry products as well as high end perfumes. It fits most of your descriptions but it lacks much in the way of a...
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    Re: Do you mix by weight or volume?

    Notice that I said "Providing that the scales weigh to the nearest 0.01 g, then I don't see an issue with using weight to begin with..."

    This was intended to mean that while less accurate scales...
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    Re: Do you mix by weight or volume?

    Providing that the scales weigh to the nearest 0.01 g, then I don't see an issue with using weight to begin with, as a standard size drop weighs considerably more than this. None the less, many...
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    Re: Do you mix by weight or volume?

    You're welcome, Palm. I should add one more thing. If you can't find the same model of dropper as you previously used for a formula, then it isn't the end of the World as providing that the same...
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    Re: Do you mix by weight or volume?

    Hey Palm,

    you first need to know the density or specific gravity of each material. This can sometimes be found in the physical data section of the MSDS. If no data is given then you can consult a...
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    Re: Do you mix by weight or volume?

    Volume can be more practical during the experimental stage but once you've found a blend that works or wish to scale up production, it is customary to convert everything to weight. For ease of...
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    Re: First attempt was terrible, please help!

    As Marcus mentioned, patchouli and black pepper are very strong and need to be dosed carefully.

    It isn't a good idea to experiment with ml of pure materials to begin with, as it can be very...
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    Re: Sandela, which one do you prefer and why?

    Thank you for clarifying what you meant, David. If the character is also different then it's reasonable to assume that they have added other components.
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    Re: Sandela, which one do you prefer and why?

    Thanks David. That's interesting, according to Leffingwell:

    "Various complex mixtures containing between 5-20% of the active stereoisomers have been sold under the tradenames of Sandela®...
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    Sandela, which one do you prefer and why?

    As I'm sure that many of you are aware, there is more than one material that goes by this name:

    CAS # 3407-42-9

    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/rw1006491.html

    CAS # 66068-84-6
    ...
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    Re: Perfume Formulas (found in Patent Applications)

    Is anyone else having difficulty visiting Good Scents? The connection just times out. Perhaps I have a bug.
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    Re: Kirk"s Castille Soap fragrance. Help!

    Some of the volatiles, such as the lactones, have good substantivity (lasting power), so the reason that the scent doesn't last is most likely because the concentration of volatiles is low to begin...
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    Re: What happens during maceration?

    Higher temperatures can increase the rate of reaction. Some perfumers therefore choose to store their fragrances at elevated temperatures for the first few weeks or months, before filtering and...
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    Re: Alternate of banned chemicals?

    Heliotropin is banned in it's pure form but I believe that it's allowed in most countries if it's sold as a dilution. The Heliotropin Replacer from Perfumers Apprentice is 50% heliotropin.
  29. Re: Ancient formula writings.... for laundry and rose balls ++

    Indeed, mumsy, it was certainly used in baking also:

    https://archive.org/stream/bakershandbook00schu#page/38/mode/2up/search/tragand


    Rhodium is another name for rosewood. The recipe...
  30. Re: Ancient formula writings.... for laundry and rose balls ++

    Nice find, Mumsy. I believe that it's 'gum tragand', which is another name for gum tragacanth. It was often used in wash balls as a binding agent but probably also had some cleansing properties. It...
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    Re: Female jasmine-thyme help?

    Okay, then it is probably a high phenol variety, unless it's lemon thyme. Standard red thyme oil will probably suffice. If you want the most complex and natural smelling, then you can go for thyme...
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    Re: Female jasmine-thyme help?

    Thyme grown at low altitudes (i.e. the majority) tends to be rich in phenols such as thymol and carvacrol, which are quite tenacious. I'd therefore describe it as more of a heart note. Thyme grown at...
  33. Re: Vodka Alcohol and Ethyl Alcohol are the same Alcohol?

    Vodka is often fractionally distilled like pure ethyl alcohol but not always. It is sometimes pot distilled to give it more flavour. It is also usually watered down to around 40-50% volume, to make...
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    Re: Kirk"s Castille Soap fragrance. Help!

    Did you try the suggestions in my last post? If not then I suggest that you do so and then report back. We can't really help you without having more to go on.
  35. Re: Please Help...suggest Flavor and Fragrance Formula books

    You're welcome, Flavi.

    I would also suggest that you use 'flavour' as a search term on Scribd, as many authors use the original English spelling as opposed to the Americanized variant....
  36. Re: Please Help...suggest Flavor and Fragrance Formula books

    I would suggest that you sign up to a free 30 day trial with Scribd and read through a few books, before deciding which ones to buy. Use search terms like perfume, perfumery and flavor:
    ...
  37. Re: Please Help...suggest Flavor and Fragrance Formula books

    Read from post #20 onwards.

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/373807-Links-to-perfumery-books?p=3065760&viewfull=1#post3065760
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    Re: Primo Leather ACs?

    A generous dose of m-cresol and a trace of birch tar, would be my suggestions. p-cresol can also be helpful but m-cresol should ideally be the main cresol used. Keep an eye out for 4-ethylphenol...
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    Re: Kirk"s Castille Soap fragrance. Help!

    Okay, then it may be the reformulated version described in the above reviews. I'd suggest that you try the glycerin version to see if it smells the same as the castile version. If so, then you can...
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    Re: Kirk"s Castille Soap fragrance. Help!

    Not necessarily, as that is only the description given for their glycerin soap. What can you smell, citrus?
  41. Replies
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    Re: Kirk"s Castille Soap fragrance. Help!

    You were probably still writing when I posted my last installment, so you may want to check that out.

    The formula that you've given is for the liquid soap. The review above compares the scent of...
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    Re: Kirk"s Castille Soap fragrance. Help!

    Another reviewer compares the scent to Ivory soap:



    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kirk-Natural-223809-Liquid-11951/dp/B000E7KVNU

    Lemongrass (and/or citronella) oil is said to be one of the key...
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    Re: Kirk"s Castille Soap fragrance. Help!

    I have no idea if the fragrance has remained true to the original. They claim that it's the original but companies aren't always entirely truthful.

    One reviewer had this to say:


    ...
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    Re: Kirk"s Castille Soap fragrance. Help!

    That I couldn't say. Whoever offers to assess the sample for you, if anyone. Where do you live? One thing's for sure, there were no synthetic aroma compounds that were in wide spread use in the soap...
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    Re: Kirk"s Castille Soap fragrance. Help!

    If the formula has remained the same since 1839 then it will most likely contain crude coconut oil, as opposed to deodorized coconut oil. The former smells much more strongly of coconut. If the soap...
  46. Re: Advice in recreating the scent of American hot dogs & the scent of sunflowers

    Often they're just listed as "spices" or "spice extracts", so you may need to look at quite a few brands before you find any that list the individual spices. Spices and spice extracts often have a...
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    Re: Adulterated Benzoin?

    I would recommend that you avoid using water. My point was that the precipitation may have been caused by water to begin with. Tell us which ingredients that you added which caused the benzoin to...
  48. Re: Advice in recreating the scent of American hot dogs & the scent of sunflowers

    Anytime. I've taken a look at the ingredients of a few hot dog brands and the spices/extracts common to some of them are as follows: celery (seed), ginger, garlic, coriander (seed), nutmeg, mace,...
  49. Re: Advice in recreating the scent of American hot dogs & the scent of sunflowers

    For the smoke flavour you could use a trace of rectified birch tar. For the onions you could use onion oil, but you'd also need something for the caramelised effect such as furans, furanones and...
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    Re: What kind of cederwood is it?

    Yes, I have two samples from different suppliers. The fruity note is more of a middle note and the spicy and woody notes are base notes. The latter two last quite a long time on a scent strip, at...
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    Re: What kind of cederwood is it?

    Anytime. Yes, it's botanical name is Thuja plicata. It is traditionally used by the Native Americans to make totem poles, among other things. It would be difficult not to like the smell of this wood,...
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    Re: What kind of cederwood is it?

    Western red cedar wood smells more spicy, like cumin and nutmeg. It also has a top to middle note like lime or pineapple, but that would probably have dissipated in an old wardrobe. The wood often...
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    Re: Adulterated Benzoin?

    You would have to tell us what these other materials were and whether or not any solvents had been used. If any contained an appreciable amount of water then yes, precipitation would be likely.
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    Re: Need your opinion on this supplier?

    This is an old thread. Only theom needs an answer, although his question is rather vague.
  55. Thread: Oak moss

    by Pears
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    Re: Oak moss

    It sounds like you've had a lot of fun experimenting. I noticed that you said "soaking and drying". You may want to try it the other way around – first drying and then humidifying (see below):


    ...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    Anytime, perfumum.

    Civettine is a Firmenich trademark, which most likely refers to Civettictis civetta (African civet) or Viverra civettina (Malabar civet). Civet essential oil isn't commercially...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    Indeed, Serg. Unfortunately, it's use is restricted to 0.01% by the IFRA. If that isn't enough for your needs then you can also use 2-methoxy-4-ethylphenol (4-ethyl guaiacol), which has no...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    There may be another reason why certain oud fragrances possess a sandalwood note. To quote a recent Firmenich patent:

    "Typical perfuming co-ingredients commonly used in perfumery base having an...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    The description for the former certainly mentions sandalwood. The description for the latter mentions blonde woods, which might suggest the presence of a sandalwood accord. It also mentions leather,...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    Ah, I've just remembered that in the EU the Product Information File for each cosmetic product must contain the following:

    "Data concerning the impurities and traces in the raw materials and/or in...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    Penta sell m-cresol and all of the xylenols. They also sell 3-ethyl phenol although they don't list it on their site.

    Sigma sell m-cresol, 2,3-, 2,5- and 2,6-xylenol. Their 2,3-xylenol is listed...
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    Re: Bubble Gum Fragrance

    Aldehyde C-20 smells exactly like the bubblegum that you used to get from the old slot machines outside the newsagents. Unfortunately, it's usually only used in the flavour industry so most fragrance...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    Perhaps we could encourage the suppliers that visit here to stock some xylenols. They're relatively inexpensive and they offer a degree of complexity that the monoalkylated phenols don't have. As I...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    Of the six isomers, 2,3-, 2,5- and 2,6-xylenol have by far the lowest odour thresholds. They would therefore probably give you the most bang for your buck. However, their thresholds are still around...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    Firmenich use 3-ethyl phenol and 3-propyl phenol in some of their oud bases/fragrances but they have patented their use, which may be why they are so expensive to buy (> $2400/kg). A cheaper...
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    Re: What scents describe a warm starry night?

    Ilija, just to add, if the fragrance isn't intended for the market place, then you can ignore any IFRA restrictions. Even some professional perfumers do but that's another story.
  67. Replies
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    Re: What scents describe a warm starry night?

    Fair enough, but it is not necessarily about being new or innovative here. After all, the smell of a starry night is older than mankind itself. However, I understand your point and to clarify I am...
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    Re: What scents describe a warm starry night?

    For the "secure/safe" effect you could try using a Grojsman accord (Hedione, methyl ionone gamma, Iso E Super and Galaxolide). The Hedione will add a jasmine-like note and the Galaxolide has a...
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    Re: The smell of nutmeg absolute

    I haven't had the opportunity to try it but most suppliers list it as a middle/heart note. Several describe the odour as warm, woody, nutty, spicy and herbaceous. If that is in decreasing order, then...
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    Re: The smell of nutmeg absolute

    Parsley seed oil is particularly rich in myristicin. It may be worth blending it with nutmeg oil but it would largely depend on how herbaceous it smells.
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    Re: Adulterated Benzoin?

    Greetings adammaba. Indeed, benzoin is often adulterated. Try to avoid block benzoin, as it often contains dammar - an odourless resin. Block benzoin is also sometimes broken up into chunks before...
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    Re: Santalol - Robertet?

    Interesting, Parker. I'll certainly keep an eye out for that next year.
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    Re: recreating Japanese Cypress (Hinoki) ?

    Yes, aside from the smell of cloves, allspice berries do have a slight nuance of cinnamon (and nutmeg). However, it must be largely due to components other than cinnamaldehyde.

    Indeed, it wouldn't...
  74. Replies
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    Re: recreating Japanese Cypress (Hinoki) ?

    They're both high in eugenol; neither contain cinnamaldehyde, except perhaps in traces. Perhaps you're thinking of the difference between cinnamon bark and leaf oil.
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    Re: "Drunk man" smell

    I'm assuming that this man wasn't so drunk that he pissed himself or threw up. Otherwise that's a whole different story, lol.

    If he was drinking at the pub/bar, then his clothes would have picked...
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    Re: recreating Japanese Cypress (Hinoki) ?

    Pimento is a synonym of allspice, but it's pretty easy to forget the finer details.

    Parchem sell a hinoki oil replacer which may be worth trying:
    ...
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    Re: recreating Japanese Cypress (Hinoki) ?

    I suspect that it's largely an issue of cost.
  78. Replies
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    Re: recreating Japanese Cypress (Hinoki) ?

    Allspice doesn't contain cinnamaldehyde, except perhaps in traces. However, the analysis that I most recently looked at had a much lower eugenol content than normal. It therefore appeared that the...
  79. Replies
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    Re: recreating Japanese Cypress (Hinoki) ?

    Hinoki wood oil is rich in cadinene, cadinol and muurolol. Allspice leaf (not berry) oil and pumilio pine needle oil are relatively rich in cadinene and cadinol, and Port Orford cedarwood oil is rich...
  80. Replies
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    Re: recreating Japanese Cypress (Hinoki) ?

    I don't know if it will answer all of your questions but you may like to read the thread below. Scroll half way down for a more readable format:

    http://www.basenotes.net/huddlerarchive/376111
    ...
  81. Thread: Beta ionone

    by Pears
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    Re: Beta ionone

    When there's more than one functional group involved, their positions relative to one another can have a bearing on the isomer designation. However, the position of the double bonds often bears no...
  82. Thread: Beta ionone

    by Pears
    Replies
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    4,295

    Re: Beta ionone

    As David suggested, the alpha, beta and gamma prefixes denote positional changes but not necessarily of the double bonds. For double bonds specifically, you need to study the full chemical names. I...
  83. Thread: Rose Fragrance

    by Pears
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    2,223

    Re: Rose Fragrance

    Indeed, the quality can vary depending on the source. It was particularly useful before the isolation and synthesis of l-citronellol became more practical.
  84. Thread: Rose Fragrance

    by Pears
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    Re: Rose Fragrance

    Fair enough. It was worth mentioning, so that people can adjust the amount to suit their own needs.
  85. Thread: Rose Fragrance

    by Pears
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    2,223

    Re: Rose Fragrance

    Indeed, alpha damascone is more apple-like. I can't quite recall the smell of delta, I've got it stashed away somewhere.

    Dorinia SA contains 2.5-5% beta damascone, but I think that 1-2% would more...
  86. Thread: Rose Fragrance

    by Pears
    Replies
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    2,223

    Re: Rose Fragrance

    The original formula contains 20% citronellol, 20% geraniol and 20% rhodinol. You've given 38% geraniol, so I'm assuming that this was based on the fact that rhodinol ex citronella usually contains...
  87. Thread: Rose Fragrance

    by Pears
    Replies
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    2,223

    Re: Rose Fragrance

    I doubt that it's anything personal, as he/she hasn't responded to anyone else's post.

    Adam, I agree, neither the damascones or damascenones smell much like rose on their own. Beta damascone...
  88. Replies
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    Re: "Urinal deodorizer" oud for use in fragrance

    Synthetic oud has often been described as having a note reminiscent of band-aids. A band-aid note in wine and beer is often attributed to 4-ethyl phenol. The above patent mentions 3-ethyl phenol,...
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    Re: Nootkatone versus Orange Flower Ether

    Grapefruit oil contains aldehydes. Aside from nootkatone, the main contributors to the odor are aldehydes and sulphur-containing compounds. I'd recommend that you try the materials suggested before...
  90. Replies
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    Re: "Urinal deodorizer" oud for use in fragrance

    1,4-paradichorobenzene was banned for use in cosmetics in the EU, in 2009. Roseaoud was launched in Europe, in 2011, so it couldn't contain 1,4-paradichorobenzene. It's likely that something similar...
  91. Replies
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    Re: Nootkatone versus Orange Flower Ether

    Structurally speaking, decatone is very similar to nootkatone, and it possesses a grapefruit note. However, it also has notes of gardenia and rhubarb, which you may not be after. It's also quite...
  92. Thread: Orcinyl 3

    by Pears
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    3,701

    Re: Orcinyl 3

    Perhaps PA read this thread. Diluting it to 10% will make it more affordable to buy for sampling purposes.
  93. Re: Flint and soil smell (How to obtain the mineral scents?)

    Good suggestions thus far.

    Mineral aspects in wine are often attributed to sulphur-containing compounds. Benzenemethanethiol (benzyl mercaptan), found in some wines, has been described as having...
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    Re: Woody like Cade ?

    Cade phenols smell smokey and medicinal, like cade really. I didn't realise that you were asking if I could do this for you. Unfortunately that's not the kind of service that I offer, I mainly work...
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    Re: Woody like Cade ?

    You can start with either but seeing as alkali washing doesn't remove the PAH, you'd want to use rectified in this instance. I used rectified myself.



    That would partly depend on whether you...
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    Re: Woody like Cade ?

    Hi Paul, I made it in the same way as the birch oil, below, although the ratio of lye to oil was slightly different:
    ...
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    Re: Woody like Cade ?

    Methyl guaiacol is another phenol that most likely exerts an effect in the dry down. For a darker version of pencil wood you can try using Nootka wood oil.
  98. Replies
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    Re: Woody like Cade ?

    The darkness that you refer to may be from the heavier phenols such as ethyl guaiacol. Dephenolated cade oil smells very woody but not dark, so the heavier phenols most likely have a modifying affect...
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    Re: Timberol - EU supplier

    I haven't had the opportunity to try Norlimbanol/Timberol. Firmenich describe it as having a dry woody note in the patchouli direction. Would you say that this is more in terms of it having a similar...
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    Re: Woods - Norlimbanol / Timberol

    I haven't had the opportunity to try Norlimbanol/Timberol. Firmenich describe it as having a dry woody note in the patchouli direction. Would you say that this is more in terms of it having a similar...
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