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  1. Replies
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    Re: Violet accord - i am lost

    The ionones used in all violet fragrances make it in general a very harsh mixture, which is even made worse by the use of very potent green notes like from violet leaf abs or methyl heptine...
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    Re: Good MUSK combos?

    I wonder if there is a theory. Of course usualy one uses a mixture of musks for rather a lot of people are anosmic to certain musks, by combining them they will at least smell some or even one of...
  3. Re: Best scent absorbing materials for enfleurage

    Traditionally lard and tallow was used, of course with as little scent of its own as available. For enfleurage a froid / au chassis the fat was not melted, but in solid state. A good reason for using...
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    Re: Contact reaction to benzoin tincture

    Benzoin (and then I am speaking of the styrax species, for these are the only benzoin resins) contains benzoic acid, cinnamic acid and benzyl alcohol, therefor also the esters that can be made with...
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    Re: Thickener for oil-based perfumes

    I hope your wax mixes with DPG, might be a problem. You could change your carier to an oil.

    Please note that 'soy wax' and 'palm wax' (plus many more) are not waxes but hydrogenated oils, will...
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    Re: Powder chemicals - Need help on how to use

    Yes, Indole turns orange in quite a short time. I must say that the fragrance still is good after discoloration. A lot other fragrance materials can cause discoloration, vanillin in soap is classic:...
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    Re: Powder chemicals - Need help on how to use

    5% Musk ketone in ethanol seemed not possible to get, I will try it with a magnetic stirrer. The standard solution however, for over a century is 20% musk ketone in benzyl benzoate. Coumarin I use in...
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    Re: Absolutes supplier

    It is hard for a simple small consumer to be sure, but there are clues:

    1: India
    Violet leaf absolute is not made in India, Rose de Mai is a French specialty (made from French roses) and can...
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    Re: NEED REPLY SOON! (Recipes?)

    It depends on your association with fall, I think of mandarine (or oranges), spices like cloves, cinnamon, cloves. Why not let your nose decide?
  10. Replies
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    Re: perfume formulas/recipes using glycerin

    Maybe we should go back to basics:

    Perfume is a mixture of a fragrance compound and alcohol. You don't add a fixative afterwards to a fragrance, the fragrance compound needs to have enough...
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    Re: sizing for fine mist sprayers?

    The first digits have to do with the width of the bottle, both 20. The second has to do with the height, 410 caps are higher than 400 caps. So probably a 20/410 sprayer can be turned on a 20/400...
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    Re: Where to get perfumers alcohol online

    I sure did, so now I will probably get Luxemburg related replies, or even for France, Croatia or Paraguay ;)
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    Re: Carrier oil?? and other questions :)

    The best source depends on your location, due to the fact that you use US volume units I assume you are from the US, in that case lotioncrafter would be a possible source:...
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    Re: Self-Made DIY kit - naturals

    Instead of Litsea Cubeba you can use Lemongrass oil, I prefer citral (which is the main component of both oils). I generaly use a 10% citral solution: as Chris mentioned is overdosing easily done.
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    Re: How do I use essential oils safely?

    When you live in the EU and purchase from a reliable source all essential oils will be labeled according to the European Reach legislation. This will give a good indication on how to work with the...
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    Re: Looking for a recipe

    Replicating a perfume is sometimes seen as pitiful. I understand why: the creation of the perfumer is the main reason people adore these men and women. So may I suggest to change your target: try to...
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    Re: Strange Stable Scents?

    Wet wool
    That's a hard one, I think imedialtely of the smell of lanolin / woolfat, hard to mimic. A good starting point is Costausol or other costus oils replacers.

    Horse
    Some animalic / leather...
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    Re: Self-Made DIY kit - naturals

    Mandarin is not very expensive, so might fit in your purchase, though bergamot and lemon oil are more important. Rosewood or Ho oil is another good purchase. Olibanum resinoid (not the essential...
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    Re: Synth fixatives for naturals

    Yes, and as Jellinek once wrote: even bergamot oil may act as a fixative for lemon oil (in a very, very simple eau de Cologne type fragrance).

    There are a lot of natural materials that can act...
  20. Re: Mid notes for "Vetiver" fragrance. Any suggestions?

    There are so many options!

    Rose goes very well with vetiver, the same for geranium. Other options: coriander, both the green (cilantro) as the seed. Though used in classic female fragrances...
  21. Thread: Additives

    by janmeut
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    Re: Additives

    Yep 0.1% BHT seems to be the standard in perfumes. For tocopherol I assume an alike dosage.

    De Hekserij nor other small scale suppliers I am aware of sell benzophenone-2, probably because it is...
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    Re: Oakmoss restrictions as per 2013?

    Each country of the EU has to make sure the law is fulfilled, but this can be done very different. There can be a lot of checks, there may be little. The public servants may be mild or not.

    For...
  23. Re: Constructing a note using the terp profile of a natural sample?

    I think it would be hard in case you want to copy this fragrance in a perfume, in case you would use a kind of device that would release fragrances like a living flower it might work.

    The...
  24. Thread: Copycat oils

    by janmeut
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    Re: Copycat oils

    In theory: yes. In reality: very unlikely. Copycats usualy produce low quality products where fragrance brands make at least a reasonable product.
  25. Thread: Additives

    by janmeut
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    Re: Additives

    When you want to keep the fragrance good for longer than a few weeks an antioxidant is necessary. When you use a lot of easily oxidised products like citrus oils it is always needed. Note that an...
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    Re: Oakmoss restrictions as per 2013?

    I think that everybody should comply to the laws that are applicable, BUT I also think the cosmetics legislation for smaller companies (or better smaller amounts sold) should be less restrictive. I...
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    Re: Oakmoss restrictions as per 2013?

    Every formulation has to be approved. This has nothing to do with IFRA, it is EU law, IFRA does not ask for such strict rules.

    The story behind it is long but has mainly to do with a few serious...
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    Re: Oakmoss restrictions as per 2013?

    I checked for new data: in 2010 62% of all checked Dutch cosmetics companies did not meet all demands of the law, thereby breaking it. I have no data for other countries, but it is well known that...
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    Re: Oakmoss restrictions as per 2013?

    Yes, (in the EU) every formulation has to be assessed. So if you mix 96% alcohol with 5% patchouli oil and sell it such that it is legaly a perfume you have it to be assessed. In case you change to 4...
  30. Re: Can I make my own Molecule 01 and/or Molecule 02 ?

    Molecule01 is supposed to contain only Iso E Super. I suppose about 5-15% in pure alcohol or perfumers alcohol would give an alike impression. I am sure this is dicussed before on this forum, so if...
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    Re: Oakmoss restrictions as per 2013?

    Yes, the UK are part of the EU so every perfume, including bespoke perfumes has to be assessed, no exceptions.

    - - - Updated - - -


    In theory changing a fragrance would be making a new one. As...
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    Re: Oakmoss restrictions as per 2013?

    Not in the EU; before selling a perfume or even giving away the first sample you have your perfume (or any other cosmetic) to be assessed for safety. With that you can prove that your product is...
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    Re: Onion and/or garlic

    EO of garlic is awfull, you smell it trough several layers of well sealed plastic foil. I think that even a 0.1% solution is useless in perfumes. In case you want an awfull fragrance: use lots of it.
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    Re: Oakmoss restrictions as per 2013?

    Like what: using a contract killer? No, they will "be contacted by the IFRA Director General and encouraged to join their national association and commit to taking part in the IFRA Compliance...
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    Re: Oakmoss restrictions as per 2013?

    Last time I checked Oakmoss absolute is not restricted* in cosmetics in the EU and for I am not a member of IFRA I can ignore all IFRA rules as I like. So, if I would like to sell oakmoss absolute at...
  36. Re: Angelica root (What can I do with this stinker?)

    Never smelled it, but in that case the fragrance might be quite different from the A. Archangelica, which is the only common one used in western perfumery. All citrus oils are from the same botanical...
  37. Re: Angelica root (What can I do with this stinker?)

    In essential oil trade there is a kind of joke of calling fake essential oils Indian ..., especially when a certain oil is usualy not from India. Though it might be perfecly good Angelica Root oil it...
  38. Re: Always been curious: formula for Dragon's Blood?

    Several red resins bear te name 'dragons blood'. I am familiar with some of them, none has a very pronounced odour. Used as Incense they smell to me like molten plastic.
    Therefor I dont think that...
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    Re: Your thoughts/critiques wanted

    I would take out the Ravensara (don't like it at all).
    Peppermint is very hard to work with, unless it is for toothpaste.
    Mumsy is right: almost every fragrance needs flowers. Geranium would fit...
  40. Re: Adding Glycerine and Distilled Water for longevity

    DPG is cheaper than ethanol when considering excise and transport cost due to the flamabilty of ethanol, besides that in bulk both are cheap.

    DPG is most used in the fragrance industry as a...
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    Re: Guerlain Apres L'Onde

    So the notes are: bergamot, neroli, aniseed, hawthorn, violet, heliotrope, iris and musk
    Why not start simple like this:
    12 Bergamot EO
    5 Linalyl acetate
    5 alpha Terpineol
    1 Neroli EO
    2...
  42. Re: Adding Glycerine and Distilled Water for longevity

    I agree mainly with David, DPG or DEP (2-5%) might help a little bit, but not in all cases (depends of the formulation of the fragrance). In case you use too much it will dillute the fragrance.
    ...
  43. Re: Tips on avoiding olfactory dissonance with Bergamot and Lavender

    The formula has very little heart notes, so after the 'real' top has ended you have a huge empty hole in which you smell the less appreciated aspects of several of the ingredients used. I assume the...
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    Re: Just bough a kit, any tips?

    When I am filling small bottles with aromachemicals, essential oils etc. at work, I ALWAYS use nitril gloves. NOT latex for latex can be allergenic too. I rarely use safety goggles, probably because...
  45. Re: Tips on avoiding olfactory dissonance with Bergamot and Lavender

    Hard to find out the problem without smelling. Could you post the formula of a mixture that has this problem?

    As far as I can do with this information I assume you have 'empty spots' in your...
  46. Re: Adding Glycerine and Distilled Water for longevity

    I get a lot of questions about this and really, the suggestion David makes is usualy the only good solution: reformulate and make sure you use enough less volatile materials. Do not add a fixative...
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    Re: Benzoin Question

    Good news, you probably got the pure natural material. Most benzoin absolute / benzoin resinoid is sold as 'benzoin pourable', which is a solution of the absolute/resinoid in DPG, DEP or an alike...
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    Re: Where to get perfumers alcohol online

    For Italians: http://www.faled.it/page/alcool.html
    I use it for liqueur, but it will do fine for perfume, has only a little vodka smell to it.
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    Re: Heliotrope / Heliotropin

    au contraire: I never met anyone in the 'perfumer circle' who does not like or use naturals, I think those people are very, very rare.

    On the other hand, if there is not an olfactorial reason for...
  50. Sticky: Re: DIY Suppliers List

    Please note that the link above is/will be changed in the next few days to: http://www.hexapus.nl/en/main.htm

    Same people (including me ;)), but the English part of our site moves, is already...
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    Re: The Essential EOs

    In that case simply choose the oils you like from those available to you.
  52. Re: Natural alternatives for gardenia, lilac, lily, etc.?

    The point is that for instance "gardenia" in perfumery is not the same as "gardenia" as in the flower. What I mean is that a single flower perfume that is based on gardenia usualy not intends to...
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    Re: The Essential EOs

    I am afraid those are not all essential oils but fragrance oils. Patchouli is not from tunesia, but there are EO's from patchouli. The grapefruit probably is an essential oil, just like the cedar....
  54. Re: Natural alternatives for gardenia, lilac, lily, etc.?

    Natural fragrance materials are a subset of all fragrance materials. It is like painting with only red, blue and orange. You might get very beautifull purples with it, but never a bright yellow. Back...
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    Re: How to make vanilla absolute?

    Vanilla absolute is made by solvent extraction. What you need is a lot of cured vanilla pods, cut them in pieces and soak them in a suitable solvent. Most common are pentane and hexane. Of course...
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    Re: aromachemicals storage

    The reason some of our products have a child resistant cap is that is is obligatorily in the EU for certain substances. We started with the caps + dropper insert so the customer can use it without a...
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    Re: Denatured Alcohol

    Generally not, the denaturants used have a smell that is hard to mask.
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    Re: Making essential oils yourself

    First of all you have to learn how to make a good distilled oil. This skils are usualy learned from your parents that distilled essential oils too and know all about how many water you use, how much...
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    Re: Does pure alcohol and EO mix well?

    That depends on the used compounds. Most perfumes are stored for at least 6-12 months before they are sold, but my experience is that most fragrances are stable after about 4 months storage.
  60. Re: How many minutes 'makes' a top, middle or base?

    There is not a standard procedure for determinig if a material is a top, heart or base note. It all depends on the use of it (ylang ylang oil can be a top note when you add only a little high...
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    Re: Creamy-smelling essential oil?

    Maybe sandalwood oil. Vanilla EO and Tonka EO are not existing, but there is vanilla absolute and tonka absolute.
  62. Replies
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    Re: How do you make a strawberry scent?

    A strawberry note is always mainly synthetic. Aldehyde C16 is the most common aromachemical with a strawberry fragrance.
  63. Replies
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    Re: Fruity essential oils?

    Davana and tagetes are good exceptions, but most fruity notes -except for citrus notes- can not be made with only natural substances.
  64. Replies
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    Re: Perfume Bases/Carriers

    Alcohol
  65. Re: au bain marie heating, max. alcohol temperature

    Mimosa absolute is a horror. It is hard to solve in alcohol and DPG. I think therefor TEC is not an option either, a more apolar solvent like DEP might work, did not try that so far.
  66. Re: Anyone knows? ... " Modifier for Blackcurrent "

    With EO of blackcurrant you mean cassis bud oil / bourgeons de cassis?
    It can be modified in several ways, but the problem here seemst o be that you used to much. Did you try to reduce the amount of...
  67. Re: au bain marie heating, max. alcohol temperature

    When you heat alcohol, first make sure there is no open fire. That includes a pilot light in for instance your water heater system or central heating system. Ventilate well. Don't overheat. Use...
  68. Thread: Fig Accord

    by janmeut
    Replies
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    3,493

    Re: Fig Accord

    Stemone would be a good choise, it is very green (like stems of herbs). Datilat is probably hard to source in small amounts, Symrise only sells in large amounts (where for instance Firmenich somtimes...
  69. Replies
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    Re: aromachemicals storage

    Ideal for most substances is a temperature of about 10 deg C / 50 deg F. For some substances including rose otto and cedarwood oils it is better to keep the temperature higher otherwise they will...
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    Re: Does pure alcohol and EO mix well?

    With cosmetisch haarwater you can solve at least 25% essential oils, even when it are hard to solve oils like with lots of terpenes like lemon oil and orange oil. For a fragrance it is unusual to use...
  71. Thread: Fig Accord

    by janmeut
    Replies
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    3,493

    Re: Fig Accord

    I think that is not the easiest accord to make. The natural fig extract is not allowed in cosmetics in the EU and also banned by IFRA. To me fig has green/raisin/sweet base. I found Datilat in the...
  72. Re: How do you address the fire risk element of this hobby?

    I would talk about it with your insurance adviser. A lot of essential oils are inflamable too.
  73. Replies
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    Re: blending a simple synthetic rose like note

    Neryl acetate and geranyl acetate are the most common. Being creative by using only a minimum of ingredients is a great way to learn. You could add other fruity notes like fruity esters. Davana oil,...
  74. Replies
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    Re: blending a simple synthetic rose like note

    Guaiac wood oil or guaiyl acetate can indeed be a good addition, it has some peppery, spicyelements. I would not use over 5%, probably even less.

    Musk ketone is one of the four musks I use most...
  75. Replies
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    Re: blending a simple synthetic rose like note

    Well for a simple rose accord you don't need damascenone or natural rose extracts, allthough they will improve the fragrance.

    I ususaly start with the rose alcohols geraniol, citronellol (not...
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    Re: Adding Oud to existing frags ?

    In India are lots of smaller producers of Oud replacements (a lot of the times sold as the real stuff), they probably all have different trade names.
    The most well known oud replacement in the...
  77. Replies
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    Re: Tweaking Vetiver de Puig

    I would do only a drop at a time, you can always add more if you want, but not take back anything. 1 ml / 100 ml is 1% of the total fragrance, maybe 10-20% of the fragrance compound, the rest is...
  78. Replies
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    Re: Tweaking Vetiver de Puig

    I think 1 ml is a lot. Of course it depends on the amount of Vetiver de Puig you start with, but vetiver EO can be very strong.
  79. Re: Using a bad frag for it's alcohol..... beginners question

    Again it depends on the concentrations. In case the perfumersalcohol is mainly ethanol (= alcohol) and IPM and MPG are only added in small amounts as a denaturant I think it is probably a good base....
  80. Re: Using a bad frag for it's alcohol..... beginners question

    There are two factors in the difference between the alcoholic bases:
    - The own smell of the base
    - The percentage alcohol

    To start with the last: you need at least 90% / 180 proof alcohol,...
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    Re: Adding Oud to existing frags ?

    Real Oud / Agarwood is hardly available, most of the Oud that is sold as real is probably a fake / reconstitution.

    There are several oud replacements available, usualy a mixture of several natural...
  82. Re: What Essential Oils/aromachemicals do you consider the most important to perfumery?

    For 500 USD you can purchase a lot.

    Let's give it a shot:
    - EO Bergamot
    - EO Lavender
    - EO Lemon
    - EO Mandarine
    - Citral
    - EO Orange sweet
    - cis 3 Hexenol
  83. Re: Using a bad frag for it's alcohol..... beginners question

    Or use "cosmetisch haarwater" from www.hekserij.nl. It is not at the international pricelist, but it will be shipped to the UK. Less than 7 GBP a liter.
  84. Replies
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    Re: Make my own cologne

    The reason that tinctures are not as long lasting as essential oils is because of the lower concentration of fragrance compounds. Glycerin might slow down evaporation, so it will probably last...
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    Re: Cyclomethicone question

    Mixing with a les oily carrier like alcohol, but I am not sure if it will mix.
  86. Replies
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    Re: Make your own Cool Water using essential oils

    Well fredtheguy, in that case I recommend you to use and smell only natural perfumes and certainly never to use (or smell) cool water or anything alike it. Common perfumes always contain mainly...
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    Re: Atomizer recommendations

    It depends on the country you live in, it is usualy the cheapest to source them in your own region, because of shipping costs.
  88. Replies
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    Re: building jasmine

    You probably can use ethanol, I am not sure if that will solve 10%, but that might be possible. Ethanol evaporates every time you have the bottle open, therefor the concentration wil increase over...
  89. Replies
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    Re: building jasmine

    You can add indole as is to the fragrance mix, but it is harder to add a precise amount that way.
  90. Replies
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    Re: Make your own Cool Water using essential oils

    Cool water is a typical example of a fragrance that in its main notes is not natural at all. You need an aquatic, amber and a musk part as main components. For these components only a few naturals...
  91. Re: What stretches out the woody aspect of lavender?

    Rosewood essential oil consists mainly (about 80-90%) of linalool, the other major component of lavender oil.
  92. Replies
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    Re: Fragrance formulation sheets and beginning.

    Every now and then I discard the items I don't like or use. I don't think you should be to quick with deciding that an experiment is a failure, sometimes the perfume changes radical in a few weeks -...
  93. Replies
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    Re: Fragrance formulation sheets and beginning.

    It depends. I typical use about 30 different ingredients to start with and make about 5 gram that is around 200-250 drops. Sometimes I can use less ingredients, making only 2 gram or less.
  94. Replies
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    Re: Fragrance formulation sheets and beginning.

    A concrete is the substance that is used to make an absolute from. Concretes are rarely used as is in perfumery.

    One of the most important things of making perfumes is writing down exactly what...
  95. Replies
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    Re: Organic chemistry and perfume making

    Another good book that you may have Irina (you sometimes seem to quote from it) is "An Introduction to perfumery" by Tony Curtis and David G Williams. Chapter 11 and 12 provide some information about...
  96. Replies
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    Re: building jasmine

    Lyral is a stronger fragrance than hydroyxcitronellal, besides that hydroxycitronellal is a stronger allergen, therfor its use is restricted in the EU to 1%, where the use of lyral is free. Both are...
  97. Replies
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    Re: Organic chemistry and perfume making

    A good point to start is "The chemistry of fragrances by David Pybus and Charles Sell. The book is intended for people with a chemistry background.

    Most literature is mainly descriptive or is...
  98. Replies
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    Re: UK perfumers: Sources for Perfumers Alcohol??

    It is usualy alcohol intended to use for perfume. It is usualy about 95% ethanol + denaturants that have no or little smell.
  99. Replies
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    Re: building jasmine

    Good basic building blocks are:
    - Amylcinnamic aldehyde
    - Benzyl acetate
    - Hedione
    - Linalool
    - Lyral
    - Phenyl ethyl alcohol

    Old fashined:
    - Hydroxycitronellal
  100. Replies
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    Re: Dissolving jojoba oil

    Even unrefined will rarely contain bacteria or fungi, because they contain none or only very little water. The problem with most oils is that they can develop rancidity bij oxidation. You can add an...
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