it certainly sounds like an interesting and fun experiment.
Type: Posts; User: luigi_g; Keyword(s):
it certainly sounds like an interesting and fun experiment.
Condiment Junkie, I do not know for sure, but it is not too high
my friend of mine who is a bow hunter wears an activated carbon fabric camo suit, all he does
is put in in the clothes dryer for 10...
well activated carbon fabric would work, the fabric will absorb the odor until it reaches its capacity
and will hold on to it as you mentioned, then to release that captured odor, you could simply...
good explanation Bill,
especially on the point of risking the dilution of the product in Bricklaya's case.
unless he has a way of concentrating the final product ?
other than the cost of olive oil, there is certainly nothing wrong with using that,
I think my choice would be sunflower oil, or another mild lighter fixed oil.
Maybe try a few different maceration...
saturation would not apply when both materials are of the same state of matter, in this case both liquids.
you can add 1ml of lemon oil to 999ml of aqueous ethanol and you can add 1ml...
BA = Benzyl Alcohol, I am thinking
indeed mumsy, I will certanily post here what he finds
pretty cool mumsy, I sent the Arabic pdf to a friend who reads and writes in Arabic
well there are a number of ambergris odor profiles / notes,
Gunther Ohloff describes the relevant odor qualities of ambergris as;
real ambergris tincture will never provide an amber note....that is not what real ambergris is used for.
as far as how much cetalox to use, it would depend on how much of it's note...
your right Bill,
also consider 1944 was during the war, who could afford that expensive of a perfume....
as a comparison,
civet tincture was 67.00 per kilo
musk tincture, tonquin grain was...
but then in the 1000 gram example, only 3 grams of ambergris is used...
that would be would be 75.00 of ambergris at todays retail price, or 36.00 of ambergris wholesale.
so 7.50 per...
when ambergris tincture was commonly used [years ago], the rule of thumb was 73.5 percent of ambergris tincture
of the fragrance concentration, so if one would have made a 20% EDP, then for every 20...
there should be no need to use benzyl benzoate or anything other than aqueous ethanol when tincturing raw civet paste.
having said that, tincturing civet paste is not as easy as it might...
i am not sure when or why actual percent figures got assigned to tinctures,
as at best they are ball park numbers, as an example with ambergris,
in the past, 30 grams of ambergris...
actually the yield is quite high for ambergris absolute, over 80% assuming one is not using soft black ambergris.
also ambergris absolute is solid, not a viscous clear fluid.
if it is the clear so called ambergris CO2, it is not real
the bright yellow inside doesn't indicate ambergris, your piece is almost the same as this, which was palm oil.
ketones react with an amine and will form an imine/schiff base.
I thought acetals are stable in basic conditions,
aqueous acid / hydrolysis is one of the deprotection methods.
Pears, served shaken or stirred :)
the wayback machine is a great tool for looking up old products / prices
here is the PA page from Nov 1, 2011 that does indeed list the tobacco abs as nicotine free...
nemenator, for the record, sandalwood essential oil does not contain sandalore, sandalore is a man made synthetic / aroma chemical
Have you been to the new Spectrix website Paul?
don't know when the change was made, but the fragrance GC now is 400.00 / 550.00, no longer the 250.00
great stuff Pears, thanks
am not sure about their Novoviol either.....
This would be a guess as the other constituents are not listed,
also there are more than 3 in that list,
one of them is an anti-oxidant
one is beta irone
and the others I am thinking are from...
indeed, it was Schimmel & Co, Pears.
i have the 1944 Fritzsche brothers, Perfumers Handbook and Catalog, that also includes the price list, that is where i
scanned the ionone prices from.
here is the ionone prices as of Jan, 1944
don't know if this helps, but here is a source in the UK, they list 1.5KG...
I agree with you David,
I wonder if over the years the accord order somehow was misinterpreted as mixing materials in order,
e.g. start with the base accord, then the heart, etc... ??
This paper should explain a number of the questions raised in this thread;
although there is not any mention of compounding order, however one could...
fixation is the result of the changed vapor pressure of the solution which changes the total evaporation rate, physics actually, not
You could try requesting a sample from Vigon
with regard to the legislative part, that was taken out of context to some degree, while it is true these approved processes
create materials that can be used in products that are...
would I be incorrect to assume, that you would regard the product of such a process to be a synthetic substance, rather than a natural substance?
This technology and production is ongoing...
ok, np, thank you
you mentioned fermentation produced, wondering what your take is on that.
to me fermentation produced, and some of the other approved natural processes are just as confusing or more...
cas 138-86-3 is actually found in a lot of naturals, it could be basil, or bergamont, both have high amounts
or any of the others
what does the opening of the colonge smell like?
is there any...
according to a PHD chemist at Firmenich in 1958, methyl dihydrojasmonate was discovered in jasmine.
nemenator, I am a bit confused,
you wrote, " I would prefer to use for example synthetic Methyl Jasmonate instead of its hydrogenated form methyl dihydrojasmonate ie Hedione, as it very much exists...
"They are not in the least relevant to the point, which was to aid understanding the febrile quality of the statement that a given material is 'not found in nature'"
excuse me?, you asked me for...
yes, there is data on this actually published by Firmenich
"Exaltolide was first synthesized in 1928 via the oxidation of Exaltone"...
that maybe the case if one assumes firmenich had synthesized this prior to the discovery, as you mentioned
the trademark is post-date discovery in many trademarks, however, Ruzicka was the first to...
actually it was found in nature many years ago and prior to the synthetic release,
in some circles, Ruzicka is credited for the discovery in 1928 in angelica root, while
others state it was found...
musk grains do not dissolve
as David correctly mentioned, your description is not a characteristic of PET.
sadly that description is nothing more than an urban legend, completely inaccurate and as many of...
put the piece in a bowl of water, it will float if it is ambergris, but as hard as you describe it is, it doesn't sound
like it is a piece of ambergris.
well it is one thing to try to recreate the scent, but it is also very inaccurate to state that muscenone is found in deer musk, that is
not the case and misleading.
and per Firmenich, and i...
during the rut, the deer will deposit a miniscule amount of his grains during urination, however that amount
would be akin to one throwing a few salt grains in the air.
during the rut...
thank you Pears,
yes, your right, they found Muscenone, the intermediate back in 1971....
that is a great book btw if you do not own a copy.
but i thought getting into intermediates, side...
forgot to answer this part DrSmellThis, sorry
so l-muscone is listed here as:
i understand DrSmellThis,
it could be that the statement made by Arcadi was taken out of context, or misunderstood ??
don't know the source or date of that statement,
but here is an...
well i don't know what to say on that, DrSmellThis, other than muscenone is not found in nature....and it is certainly not in deer musk.
if i am not mistaken, you can not get a trademark on any...
well muscenone is a molecule made by Firmenich and it is trademarked, it is not found in nature
"my advice was about recreating the smell: we are perfumers here so that's what counts"
of course, but my point was, in nature the optically pure muscone is formed, not racemic.
dl-muscone and muscenone are not found in deer musk
ll-muscone is the only macrocyclic musk compund in deer musk
muscenone is not found in nature, it is man made
yes, that sounds correct, Pears, don't know what i was thinking but i did 2% of 0.065, sorry about that.
deer musk would only have < 2% muscone, by weight, the macrocylic musk component.
there are a number of other constituents that contribute to the odor profile
trace amounts of...
@pears, you typed fater than I :_)
typically is is synthesized from benzoyl chloride and cinnamyl alcohol
so assuming you have a lab with decent steam distillation setup, and have the expertise to correctly steam distill
materials you might get 9 grams per pound of cinnamon, or you could simply buy an...
as Paul mentioned, best to sample a number of materials,
vetiver varies from producer and the country.......but from my experience and use, non are really soft,
softness would be the amount used...
you didn't mention if the rose petals are fresh or dried, but
as Paul mentioned it could be a very short time frame, also as David mentioned
if they are fresh, there is way more water...
TGSC also has an odor listing page that is very useful
it is from the guys continuning Ohloff work
thanks Hondo, good info.
i wasn't aware the scientific community had decided that, there was some discussion on that a while back but there was not any definitive
evidence or decision made, but...
charabot's civet and castoreum new hyperabsolutes are suppose to be out of this world.
i was not aware of that material at eden, however i would question that, they list it as
Botanical Name: Boswellia carterii
as far as i know Boswellia carterii does not grow in Oman...
well besides IFF, there is also charabot, and robertet naturals.
nothing seems far fetched, hypothetically speaking
i simply didnt understand your examples as i wrote
i thought faked aged patchouli was mentioned, so why would it not be cost effective?...
well to be honest i was scratching my head as i didnt understand your examples, or the rational
the amounts of these materials used in medicine is a tiny percent as what is used
in fine fragrance and flavors, there isn't one company that will disclose that info and
quite frankly i doubt if...
your welcome lpp,
as long as we on this subject and again is a bit off topic, one of my complaints is the story with castoreum
if there is any animal material that should be brought to attention...
i could do even better for you, i will get you in touch with the PHD professor at the university who last years semester did a class
on ethical harvesting and whom is also doing research on...
i think this would be a good time,
maybe i should get you in contact with the senoir chemist over here in racine at scjohnson.com, you know the old
company that makes johnson wax, well...
actually that report is what maybe 15 years old, it was also debunked buy IFRA as well as another trade group, a couple of years later
i will try to find the reference.
also of interest for those...
what do you mean nullify, not following that, are you suggesting a new compound forms that is not found in nature?
ok thank you,
also thanks for pointing out the typo, considering what i have to go through to read a post and then try to type
a reply, i am surprised there are not more of those errors.
when my lab flooded i lost my UV box, one replacement i found to work very well was one of these,...
Paul , that was once used in the older days for decolorization and for aging attempts....
UV or sunlight exposure is one of the secrets to light colored ambergris tinctures.....
that is on the hit list over here......
but you can file a dea paper and provide the usage and formula and then if approved you can purchase it and have it in your possession
they really don't care...
for small experimental work i like using disposable U-40 syringes, buy a good pair of pliers and pull out the needle
when you ask about 'original composition' is that the vintage perfume you found, if so is that the one made by
'J' by chance the night blooming jasmine, if so that was one of my...
sorry for trying to help with info when i can David,
and shame on you for suggesting otherwise!
as you once mentioned in a reply to me, your retired and do not care,
well i too am retired, i...
great find, my ultrasonic goes up to 80'C
jayH, this is just brilliant, check out the structure of citric acid, it is perfect for this
you can't use HCL, when the carbonyl O accepts the H+ from the HCL, you have a free CL ion, way to reactive
you need to use H2SO4, that would also make H2SO4 as the leaving group, so H2O is...
you should lose exactly 18.01528 gr of water per the 1:1 mole ratio
so if you used say 10% of a mole of each, you should lose exactly 1.801528 grams of water
the vacuum is used only to lower the temps and get the water out of the reaction vessel
nice setup btw!!
oh sorry justin,
my vison is all but gone due to MS, so many times, i don't read / see things right.....
so titrating in the aldehyde ensures the leaving group / water can be removed as it...
oh, i just use a erlenmeyer vacuum flask;
the large ones 1L - 2L for vacuum filtering
or small ones like this one for small reactions...
dropping the temp slowing will insure that all of the water is removed.
don't think i know the answer to your second question, given what apparatus you have...
certainly you could try/test...
i use one like this
check this link out
it lists a number of aldehye reactions with MA
here is the reaction of MA and Bergamal
Preparation of Schiff...
yes, Nizan, that is one of the reasons for the vacuum and high temps, the water MUST be removed during the reaction
lets say it is ran at near 28 inches of vacuum,, doable with a home vacuum pump,...
for what it's worth, if you search for some of these reactions, most use high temps, 80C to 120C, under vacuum, so
your at a very high temp without a vacuum, they hold that temp during...
there are a number of ways to filter this, you could remove MgSO4 from a product that would be crystalline, but as you have
mentioned these types of reactions would go beyond most DIY'ers.
well if you had some castor oil, that would be an easy test, just dilute your product 50%,
but then what would explain the huge color difference?
during the reaction, did you ever notice an orange...