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  1. Re: which AC associated with the word "elegance"?

    Lots of them of course.

    One that comes to mind when imagining elegant perfumes, for me, is ambrettolide.
  2. Re: How to make deer musk oil out of deer musk grains? DPG vs. IPM?

    I would try alcohol, as it is a no brainer to work perfectly. It's also relatively fastest, I would bet. But I've seen DPG used regularly by a perfumer I knew many years ago, 99% sure that's what it...
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    Re: Glucam P-20

    There was a study or smalll series of studies online supporting its efficacy as a fixative. It wasn't a dramatic effect but it seemed significant.
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    Re: Glucam P-20

    there is something to be said for prefixing alcohol. I personally would always prefix alcohol. There are different legit approaches to that, and glucam is certainly one, a scentless one. Raw grain...
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    Re: Glucam P-20

    I would guess it to be useful as a prefixing agent to add to alcohol, to tone down alcohol if that is your goal, to whatever degree. I see it as like a scentless benzoin, if you want a benzoin effect...
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    Re: Santalol - Robertet?

    So you're using it similar to javenol, less than 1%...

    Usually, if I could get a lot of great sandalwood for the same price, I would opt for a lot of great sandalwood in a formula. But I can see...
  7. Re: Master list/table of suggested dilutions for blending?

    I like the idea Particularly troublesome are those materials one can't smell at all due to nose fatigue. Adding more can be like adding less if doing so makes you not smell something at all. I can't...
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    Re: Santalol - Robertet?

    Almost unbelievable that this product exists, as expensive and rare as the material they derive it from is. Sure would be nice if this material was more practical, though. I'm not sure who would find...
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    Re: Adding Lime EO to Trumper Limes

    A touch of litsea oil can fix lime a little bit, without losing the identity of lime, I think. There are interesting chemicals in lime, and some of them are available for lime reconstructions as...
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    Re: Rice Powder Accord

    I think of green tea, as I used to drink toasted rice in green tea at a favorite Asian restaurant; It was nice combo of smells Then of course jasmine, but jasmine can be part of green tea accord.:)
  11. Re: Does anyone know a source for tolu balsam?

    Hate to say this but I did run across some available recently, but I FORGET where. Don't hate me, ha ha. So don't give up your search. Not a fan of the PA recreation, though, just in case you were...
  12. Re: para Cresyl Acetate and para Cresyl Phenylacetate

    Love these threads. Good job, David.

    I always had an interest in the uglier notes of perfuming, as the uglier ones tend to be more magical when properly used.

    If someone wants to complete a...
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    Re: beta damascone versus beta damascenone

    Thanks! Have been struggling with this particular issue in the past few days, not being able to find damascenone in small quantity, and wondering whether to keep it out of my formula even though it's...
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    Re: Portland, OR

    I love Chris Tsefalis. Great guy. Great marketer. Brought a lot of joy into a lot of people's lives. Total gentleman. Gifted storyteller.

    But this last thing does have another side. As a sometimes...
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    Re: Blond Leather Accord

    I'm sorry I don't remember, castoreum for sure. Something balsamic. It was some blending exercises, and I just took away the conclusion that it can be a great part of a leather accord, and adds a...
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    Re: Rounding out jasmine for a male fragrance

    I like a citrus with a touch of hedione or high-cis hedione, plus sandalwood and musk. Maybe a touch of iso-e super, cinnamon and tobacco. Of course I have given you no reason to listen to my idea,...
  17. Re: Question: do you think there's a such thing as a "bad" perfumer?

    Helpful to note that most every great perfumer was once a terrible perfumer. Most experiments end up sucking. After a lot of hard work over quite a few years, one can find out. It's tough. but like...
  18. Re: Essential/key natural isolates for base accords.

    Cumbersome question. I would check out the Carles articles available on Perfumers Apprentice. but that's just a rudimentary and partial intro. If you are referring only to naturally derived isolates,...
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    Re: Portland, OR

    I spent many hours at both, and miss them. Glad you got that experience.
  20. Re: how to reduce alcohol smell from perfumes?

    The first thing thought occurs to me is to prefix your alcohol. That can tame that alcohol assault on the nose.
  21. Re: Diluting Patchouli for use as a single note fragrance

    Just for fun try maybe some at 1%, just to familiarize yourself with the "hertofore uncharted by hippies subtle end of it" (;)) Then maybe build up from there, to well short of the place that it...
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    Re: Are OIL based perfumes a waste of time?

    What about using a different solvent than alcohol, like DPG? To me that is like a "better performing oil". I like it for that, anyway. That will provide some of the advantages of oil.

    I think what...
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    Re: Need help diluting civet paste

    I had a jar of excellent civet tincture I was making go bad and spoil when the alcohol evaporated off, due to a faulty lid, leaving the "bodily organ part." It went bad like any other "meat product"....
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    Re: Need help with a Perfume kit?

    What is your goal?
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    Re: Roses, Again...

    Lots of good suggestions.

    Clove was already mentioned, and that could have included coriander and black pepper. Ambrette seed can be paired with rose EO, as can vetiver (similar to patchouli, it...
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    Re: Coty Chypre drydown question

    Civet can appear to sort of have some of those notes after drydown, or at least enhance them. There's a sour aspect. Perhaps a combination of things.
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    Re: White amber

    "Amber" itself is a general category of perfume or accord with endless combinations of ingredients, like a "curry" is in cooking. So far so good.

    But "white" when added to that is just marketing...
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    Re: Extracting "essence" from whiskey

    I think the process would be complex and expensive. Any kind of whisky absolute would be difficult to find, though there are some good aromachemicals for whiskey notes.

    Plus, the nature of wax...
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    Re: An Introduction And A Question!

    You might try the castoreum from PA. They are a good supplier for someone like you, as they tend to sell super useful and desired things, while maintaining good quality standards.
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    Re: Lemon note for incense

    This would have been my first idea, as the classic EO bridge between incense and lemon. That's a classic solution as far as natural perfuming. As far as translating to smoke, I can't help you with...
  31. Thread: Pine Note

    by DrSmellThis
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    Re: Pine Note

    I've also struggled with finding the best piney notes. I have a lot to learn still, as I feel like there is some material I haven't tried that will be my holy grail of pine. If anyone knows, please...
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    Re: Best Value on Oils?

    I share your frustration with these issues, and am not a "100% naturals guy" whatsoever. I agree that article is misleading and misinformed.

    The point is that natural chemicals in a natural...
  33. Re: Derivation of Aroma compounds from Crude oil

    Ha ha, no, an "operational definition"; in science, defining any term used for the intended audience, by the operation or measure that represented it.

    For example, in a global warming study,...
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    Re: An oil does not mix into the blend?

    err
  35. Re: Derivation of Aroma compounds from Crude oil

    Or by practical considerations, to express the intent and method of the perfumer. That was my reason to have to define it. Yes, it was also just one opinion, but more precisely, to say "this is what...
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    Re: Patchouli Question

    Heliotropin and aged patchouli (aged is better, but it gets aged from sitting around the head shop unsold too) might be one approach. I think this is the approach used by an old perfumer friend of...
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    Re: An oil does not mix into the blend?

    The coffee CO2 appears to be the problem. Suederal is etoh soluble, so should be fine. Coffee co2 is apparently oil or water soluble, depending on where bought (though I usually assume co2s to be...
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    Re: An oil does not mix into the blend?

    Tell us what the material is and you will get advice on the best solvent(s). Also tell us what solvents you are currently using, in more detail. (e.g., What % is the alcohol?)
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    Re: Best way to dirty up a fragrance?

    These basics are on my "first occuring to me" list also, along with patchouli. The other ideas are good too.
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    Re: Blond Leather Accord

    It smells like thyme, but more balanced and complex, or "bigger". It has top, mid and base note aspects, as is the case with many essential oils. I think it's a "sexier" thyme, not quite as...
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    Re: Blond Leather Accord

    Summer savory (which is contrasted with winter savory) is roughly similar to thyme, but to me has "universal" perfuming characteristics in a way similar to clary sage's functioning, with it's musky...
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    Re: niche perfume for greasy skin

    Any typical perfume will dissolve skin oils wherever sprayed, due to the extremely high alcohol content. So I can't understand how oily skin would be a unique problem for wearing perfume. ...Unless...
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    Re: Blond Leather Accord

    I made a nice leather note with summer savory (not just, but a major part). Seems to me this is a neglected material for leather accords (I'm the only one I've heard of using it for that, which is...
  44. Re: Base notes used to create a citrus fragrance?

    I would think exaltolide would be good, as its parent EO was often used in citrus accords.
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    Re: Ersatz Natural Brut

    Brut had a lovely woody note, presumably enhanced with musk.and that is what made it masculine for me. That would be the part I would want to focus on recreating fairly closely. I remember some guy...
  46. Re: Apologies in advance…Rose Essential Oil question

    You were given good advice to try an absolute.

    If you're looking to fix the smell of the rose more, and you want to stick with essential oils, you have to find a longer lasting base note EO that...
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    Re: Woods / Cedramber

    First, your nose will fatigue quickly on cedramber, and you should always try dilution to take that out of the equation, even though it doesn't seem strong undiluted at first smell. Second, I suspect...
  48. Re: Different effects in a mix of ISO E SUPER and TIMBERSILK

    I've seen timbersilk mixed with "old regular non super" iso-e in formulas, at a similar ratio. I have no experience with that isomer mix.
  49. Re: Anyone tried this crimping tool? First ever perfume finished with a crimped bottle......

    Congrats -- looks lovely. Glad your daughter was excited. Nice bottle!
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    Re: Adding Lime oil,Peel to Dominica Bay Rum

    Lemon and bay are indeed a more natural pairing, just judging by the chemical constituents of bay (not the citrus variety). But tilting toward lime is fine too, and lime is perhaps more traditionally...
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    Re: Building around an Accord

    What is set in your formula, the primary accord?

    If so, I would recommend making accords out of the primary plus each other material (you can do a quick and dirty version of this with test strips...
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    Re: Adding Lime oil,Peel to Dominica Bay Rum

    What smells good in a lime accord is one thing, and what smells good adding lime to bay is another, IMO.

    A touch of litsea improves a lime accord, IME. But I wouldn't necessarily like litsea and...
  53. Re: Safety of essential oils - natural perfumery

    There are a lot of journals and a lot of science behind aromatherapy, by now. The practice of aromatherapy began in ancient and historical tradition, and that is its roots. So it is a combination of...
  54. Re: Safety of essential oils - natural perfumery

    Essential oil recommendations for dilution, in my opinion, are often made out of a sort of politically correct desire to be careful and conservative -- something like that. If you see "Never use ANY...
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    Re: l-Muscone from Firmenich

    preliminary good news!
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    Re: Best Value on Oils?

    @Serg:

    Their Haitian vetiver is quite nice, light with a bit of richness -- a good generic vetiver for me. It's a little thin in the dry down, but that gives it a clean vibe (like Gap clothing...
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    Re: Best Value on Oils?

    Liberty always had their niche for me with cheaper sandalwood (mysore, ironically, back when you could be disappointed in real mysore). Their sandal typically didn't smell refined out of the bottle,...
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    Re: Civet question

    I haven't had much success with synthetic civet, as I found it too strong and edgy, while lacking the obvious exaltant effect that tells you when enough is enough. Then again, some of the new civet...
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    Re: Dimethyl Sulphide

    Thanks for this educational post. A very interesting chemical, and certainly the sulphurous notes are a significant piece of the smell of nature to understand.
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    Re: Critique My Deluxe Sandalwood Accord

    Maybe try a little benzaldehyde to enhance the nuttiness. I've used it in a woody mix for that purpose, not that that means anyone else should.
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    Re: Replacing rosewood

    One thing to maybe keep in mind is that ho typically contains less linalool than rosewood, that is, if I remember correctly (I think it was somewhere along the lines of 60% compared with 80%)....
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    Re: Critique My Deluxe Sandalwood Accord

    And only the second person to have ever been knighted by Monty Python!

    ;)
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    Re: Adding Lime oil,Peel to Dominica Bay Rum

    In my personal experience (from experimenting with the materials), bergamot will likely interfere with the bay note as it extends into the "mid-range" whereas lime will mostly "coexist with the bay"...
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    Re: Possible New Produxts on PSH

    Isn't vetiveryl acetate always natural extract? I though that's what it was. I suppose I should know for sure, since I have some, but I don't..
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    Re: Perfumery Shop Concept

    There's a place called "Escentials" in Portland, OR that is a bit like that. It's been there forever and they had two branches, now one. But they are essentially a smelly gift shop. They sell EOs and...
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    Re: PA's Tobacco Accord and "Cedarwood oil"

    One detailed gc-ms suggested three ionones can be found in tobacco, alpha, beta, and this one I'm less certain of my memory, but -- dihydro ionone beta.
  67. Re: Experience of Tolu balsam and peru balsam needed please

    White Lotus, and might be worth checking Liberty, as they occassionally have it. I found tolu to be milder, smoother and more refined smelling, whereas peru had more of a sour edge, though it was...
  68. Thread: Saffron

    by DrSmellThis
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    Re: Saffron

    I've heard good things about the absolute, but that little goes a very long way, which does reduce cost.

    In addition to the above candidate material suggestions, I might consider trying some...
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    Re: Physicists / chemists wanted

    This whole conversation took a curious turn, which probably means I didn't study it carefully enough to get it.

    From an artistic point of view I see nothing wrong with pictorially representing how...
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    Re: Perfumery Practices & Principals

    Seconded. I found one of the major academic perfuming texts at a city library (forget which text, as it was years ago, but read it cover to cover for free).
  71. Re: Anyone know a source for Givaudan Chocovan?

    PA has a chocolate accord, FWIW.
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    Re: Hedione vs Hedione high cis

    Under normal conditions, doesn't HC just turn into regular hedione if not preserved well?
  73. Re: Patou's Perfect Lavender! I think I found it!

    What you have listed is a basic, common approach to any essential oil perfume note -- combine the esssential oil with a couple of its primary, pleasant constituents to extend and focus it. Have you...
  74. Re: Can perfumers control sillage or longevity?

    So you have rejected all advice, and have proclaimed that, opposite to what everyone here states, that it is possible to add "magic ingredients" to any perfume that will do all that. Good luck, but...
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    Re: Frankincense to turpertine accord

    Smell some watermelon and you'll know immediately what I mean. You have a good nose. I doubt many humans can't smell it, as it is important for survival to detect off notes in our food, and nature...
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    Re: Frankincense to turpertine accord

    Calone, along with tea tree, is worth trying. There was also a recent thread here on melon accords where the topic came up and someone knew of a premade accord with the paint aspect.
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    Re: Frankincense to turpertine accord

    Another note:

    The smells of turpentine and paint are intimately related for humans. You should be aware, therefore, that many fruits contain a paint note, including melons and strawberries....
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    Re: Frankincense to turpertine accord

    Be careful that stuff is strong. Not the easiest material to use, so don't get discouraged if the first experiment fails. :)
  79. Re: Why that musk? Ethylene Brassylate vs Galaxolide

    This one's helpful too:

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/231446-Musk

    You should read about all the musks that come with the term, "floral". Then you have to try one (or hopefully a number of...
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    Re: Frankincense to turpertine accord

    Tea tree is too citrusy?
  81. Re: Can perfumers control sillage or longevity?

    You are of course correct as usual. What I said has relevance only to the OP, not knaqsim's question.

    We often deal with different versions of the myth, that there are magic ingredients that...
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    Re: Frankincense to turpertine accord

    The best natural turpentine note, for me, by far, is tea tree oil (you can actually remove paint with it, incidentally, if it's just on your hands or something).

    It's also malleable within a...
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    Re: Glucam P-20 or Hedione (kharismal)?

    There is no thinking to be done. If you are dissatisfied with the fragrance you purchased, buy something else. As everyone says, there is no magic dust anyone can add to a bad perfume to make it...
  84. Re: Can perfumers control sillage or longevity?

    As with so many perfume questions the bottom line answer is familiarity with one's candidate ingredients. If I'm considering 100 ingredients, I have to know the siliage and lifetime on a blotter...
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    Re: Cinnamon (bark) oil repleacer

    Vigon carries both. A lot of places do, but none of the small lot places. So the issue for small timers like most of us would be finding someone else to go in on it with. Incidentally, IFRA also...
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    Re: Vanilla Top Note Help

    Is this nature identical, or not found in nature? TGSC says not found, wheareas Moelhausen says nature identical (though i have seen that company make a mistake on that issues before). A nature...
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    Re: Vanilla Top Note Help

    Hmmm. If I smell vanilla tincture with vanillin and ethyl vanillin added by themselves, there is nothing shy about the initial impression out of the bottle. To me that suggests the main issue might...
  88. Re: Basic question: how do you pick your notes?

    Good. You seem to have a passion for it, and some good ideas. It will be fun for you to study fougeres and chypres. I agree that those classic accords are among those that work well. Loved David and...
  89. Re: Basic question: how do you pick your notes?

    OK, so your style question seems like a classic consumer question, rather than an artist question.

    If you needed to make a chypre -- unless for educational purposes, which are as valid as creative...
  90. Re: Basic question: how do you pick your notes?

    Oh wait! You said, notes!

    You have it backwards, if I take your question literally. Notes are based on the concept of the perfume, not picked in a vacuum.

    If you are working from a brief, you...
  91. Re: Basic question: how do you pick your notes?

    With my finger! How do you pick yours?! Forceps?
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    Re: Brand New Smelly Game

    Feel better soon, Folly!
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    Re: How to dirty up my rose accord

    Thanks, I now have. Orris in a rose is interesting.
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    Re: Create notes separately or in one go?

    This is what I do. A perfume will have mini accords throughout itself. The "things that go together to make an important thing", can be blended separately. Your main accords that more could stand...
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    Re: Ethically 'Harvested' Deer Musk

    I've tried the cheaper "fish foody" musk and found that it could be useful in much smaller doses as suggestive of the good stuff combined with synthetics, etc. It smells reminiscent of head shop...
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    Re: Making a Pipe tobacco cologne

    I'm disappointed in myself for not thinking of this and appreciative of the idea. I see no reason not to tincture pipe tobacco, especially with the proliferation of niche tobacco shops everywhere (at...
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    Re: Hedione in the news

    Finally read it.

    Aparently the VNO doesnt have to function in humans (it has very weak functioning though it is there) for pheromones to affect emotion and behavior, and the article refers to one...
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    Re: Hedione in the news

    Thanks for the great post. Looking forward to reading it.
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    Re: Super E Iso, Ambroxan, Timbersilk, etc

    It can and has been deadly to drink a shot of that, so good advice!
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    Re: How to dirty up my rose accord

    A related question: Does anyone know of a slightly musty rose note, perhaps slightly musky too, reminiscent of dried rose petals in an attic, perhaps? I smelled a note like that the other day and...
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