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  1. Re: Wellington Fragrance Company Question

    I agree completely it's one of the easiest, but can still take quite a bit of research on some points or at least did for me.

    I am at work and don't have any formula at hand but cutting and...
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    Re: white ambergris oil

    I understand aesthetic philosophical desires but natural pure (-)-ambroxide, if you can produce it, I expect will smell indistinguishable from commercially available 99-plus percent pure material but...
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    Re: white ambergris oil

    I'm sorry, I misunderstood there.
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    Re: white ambergris oil

    All right, if you can obtain ambrein isolated from ambergris and want to tincture it yourself in hopes the tincture will turn out better or more economical than tincturing ambergris itself,...
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    Re: white ambergris oil

    It would make no sense to use ambrein isolated from ambergris to make (-)-ambroxide.

    The higher value of ambergris compared to Ambroxide, Ambrox Super etc is from trace other consituents.

    The...
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    Re: Is this correct?

    I don't know that there's a really authoritative definition of "Fragrance oil" but I will copy for you some things I quickly found from websearch to see what others say, rather than just say what I...
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    Re: white ambergris oil

    Sometimes, sadly, I completely overlook the obvious, which would have been a lot simpler:

    Ambrein, the type that is part of ambergris, is odorless by all accounts. It is not what gives ambergris...
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    Re: Is this correct?

    I forgot to ask about the "dead space" but think that what is meant is, if a formula totals say 100% but a material in there at 10% of formula is only 50% strength, the rest being an odorless...
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    Re: Is this correct?

    Given that musks and resins used in perfumery thoroughly dissolve in perfumer's alcohol in proportions ever used relative to final product in fine fragrance, or at least I do not know of a single...
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    Re: Is this correct?

    And I cannot speak to all of their fragrance oils, and if they say plainly on their site I don't see it, but checking one SDS as an example -- https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/msds/6283.pdf --...
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    Re: Is this correct?

    I stand corrected most likely! Though to call a product a fragrance "oil" seems wrong terminology if it's intended for addition to alcohol. However, wrong terminology has never stopped everyone!
    ...
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    Re: Is this correct?

    In my opinion, ingredients chosen specifically for fixative value should be included only after having one's base notes chosen, then the overall formula at least reasonably close, and then...
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    Re: Creating a dry wood base

    With regard to a quote above where I referred to "the NIIR book," I believe at the time the book in question had been discussed on the forum so people knew what I meant, but on seeing that now I...
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    Re: The maximized wow-effect?

    As this thread has a 2016 post nine or ten posts above this one which today would be rather deceptive if taken as even possibly currently valid:

    The "Perfumer Talk" site, to put it as gently and...
  15. Re: Wellington Fragrance Company Question

    No.

    For example even if buying 16 ounces at a time from Liberty Naturals, neroli eo is $221/oz.

    Even in 10 kg quantity from Vigon, the price per ounce works out to, actually, even higher,...
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    Re: Creating a dry wood base

    That is a great question, Yamboa, but I am in a poor position to answer it as I have gotten ambergris tincture only now and so don't have the working experience with it.

    The amount that I was...
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    Re: white ambergris oil

    I would bet long odds he is a fraudster. The claim is not plausible.

    I expect it could be done by column chromatography and/or counter current extraction but it is implausible he did either.
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    Re: Creating a dry wood base

    It smells reasonably strong straight from the sample tube and it's reasonably strong compared to the higher end of medium odor strength materials diluted to 3 percent (EDIT: Or fairly midrange medium...
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    Re: Creating a dry wood base

    Many times where materials are not completely pure or are a mix of isomers, they perform differently, maybe subtly so and sometimes moreso, despite having the same molecule as the claimed ingredient....
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    Re: white ambergris oil

    Ambreine is commercially available from Firmenich as a synthetic which is nature-identical to the material of that name in ambergris. (I don't know of a retail supplier.)

    I do not know of...
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    Re: Creating a dry wood base

    On ambergris accord:


    I held off essentially forever, that is to say until just last week, on getting genuine ambergris tincture.

    I just received Ambergris Tincture 10%- New Zealand Silver...
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    Re: Grojsman Accord

    Galaxolide is by any standard a base note, while Hedione has a substantivity that to me remains apparent to some extent a long time but I think is usually or often called a mid note, with TGSC...
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    Re: Clean Perfume Formulation

    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/search3.php?qOdor=clean&submit.x=0&submit.y=0
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    Re: Giving woods diffusivity

    Air movements transport fragrance molecules, rather than fragrance molecules working themselves great distances in the air. And when a volume of air -- perhaps small -- moves, it takes all the...
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    Re: My first request or help?

    Benzyl salicylate is I think essential to a "suntan lotion" effect, as that is the one thing in common with many or most of them.

    That plus a fatty sort of note, I would think.

    Whether suntan...
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    Re: Giving woods diffusivity

    Jolio, I am sorry for being unclear! I think I did not spend the time I usually do concerning myself with that and instead sort of just went on and on.

    I haven't compared rose and cardamom that...
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    Re: New on here

    Having the figures in your example would be good for very little. But the numbers seem chosen to obviously be good for very little, so it doesn't demonstrate anything as to the usefulness of being...
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    Re: Giving woods diffusivity

    Well I am going to stick my foot in it on this one. Immediate disclaimer, I'm not speaking authoritatively in any way on the perfuming aspects. However, the physical chemistry part is clear enough...
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    Re: Changing my technique

    For me ultimately it makes sense that my fragrance after many hours of wearing will smell as per the vision, and I don't need the top notes in there to see if that's so or not. For me, having fewer...
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    Re: Changing my technique

    (Accidental double post)
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    Re: Changing my technique

    You can, but (unless you make different versions of your parts of the perfume) now what you think is your base notes part is not. It is lacking these ingredients, which could include some aldehydes...
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    Re: Guide to Rose accord

    With regard to impure materials, e.g. mixtures, having different CAS numbers is good evidence that materials are different, but sharing the same CAS number can mean merely sharing similarity.
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    Re: What pairs well with orange blossom?

    I've had orange blossom and white champa plus Magnolan going on at the same time to good effect, just tossing that out as magnolia (champaca) wasn't mentioned.
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    Re: Guide to Rose accord

    I've been looking some more and I believe I led myself astray by "ass"uming that the many entries in the EODB were absolutes though they actually say neither absolute nor otto. In that database,...
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    Re: Guide to Rose accord

    Paul, not that my memory is necessarily accurate, but that seems to be the most PEA I have ever seen in a GC/MS of a natural product rose.

    Further, a lot of them, absolutes particularly I think...
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    Re: Any advice on my percentages

    My mistake -- twice. First going fast in my head trying only to get a general idea it seemed low, and then I must have slipped with the calculator. Apologies there.
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    Re: Guide to Rose accord

    I am pretty sure that in rose accords I have always chosen more citronellol than geraniol, probably always 2 or 3 times as much, and thought it more important to the task than geraniol.
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    Re: resume of DONT e DO in the begining

    Yes for your first two.

    On fixatives, there are materials which do cause other materials to last longer. But, these are not magic or mandatory and will not make a poor formula a good one. Many...
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    Re: Any advice on my percentages

    Additionally, my understanding is that when benzyl benzoate seems to have much almond odor, it's not the benzyl benzoate itself providing this, but rather benzaldehyde impurity.

    I agree that good...
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    Re: Any advice on my percentages

    Unless I misadded them, your percentages -- not counting the cinnamon tincture which I assume is rather weak and so would be confusing to count towards the total -- comes only to about 57%.

    A...
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    Re: Ylang Ylang not dissolving

    Thank you, Paul!
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    Re: Ylang Ylang not dissolving

    Not that it is answering your question but do you or does anyone know if PA is still selling John Steele products?

    I went there in order to see if there was any detail mentioned about this product...
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    Re: Sandalwood Accord - sandalore, ebanol

    Thank you for that recommendation! I will definitely try that as a component for that purpose. For some reason, though I have a sample, I never did try it in any combination formulas but see that I...
  44. Re: IFF Captive, until now, available to us at PSH! (Edenolide)

    Being captive is a question of whether a company offers it for sale as a material (not a captive), or keeps it within itself for use in formations.

    If IFF had wanted to, they could have kept...
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    Re: Accord maturation & heat

    By the way your post made me realize, when I was speaking above of higher temperatures I really wasn't speaking, although I totally failed to say that, about personal efforts to speed maturation of...
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    Re: Accord maturation & heat

    :)

    .
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    Re: Accord maturation & heat

    Yes but with a lot less precision than the numbers shown.
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    Re: Accord maturation & heat

    Just a personal rule of thumb: 50 C will age roughly 12 times faster than 25 C and I don't expect any basically aroma materials to have far greater degradation than that. Add another 10 C, now about...
  49. Re: IFF Captive, until now, available to us at PSH! (Edenolide)

    On your first question, I doubt there's anything where it's fundamentally true that a fragrance material "is" masculine or feminine or neuter, but personal perception based on previous experiences...
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    Re: Ruh kewda / Pandanus oil

    I have not, but can say for this product the genuine is hard to come by and is extremely expensive, while fakes abound, particularly from Indian sellers.
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    Re: Shaking/stirring device

    No one said fully mixing was not important!

    So mixing equipment is sold, and used. It's true one can mix by hand motion instead in many cases, but there are other cases with solids or resins where...
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    Re: Shaking/stirring device

    On no one here doing the experiments: Some things, such as whether chemical reaction rates in a fully mixed true solution, with no issues such as precipitation or phase separation or other...
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    Re: Shaking/stirring device

    "Merely" mixing means doing nothing but. Maturation (the term I use) proceeds at the same rate whether continuing to mix past the point of being fully mixed, which is quickly accomplished, or not. If...
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    Re: Shaking/stirring device

    I did not say that it did, now did I.

    Reading comprehension would be your friend.

    I regret clicking to see your post and will not make that mistake again. (I had wondered if you might have...
  55. Re: Creating fragrances with basenotes only

    If he hasn't smelled all of these four materials and instead posted based on his theorizing alone, that would hardly be a first -- or the 30th or 40th.
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    Re: Shaking/stirring device

    It would take measuring but I expect for most of us, oxygen has long since reached equilibrium in our alcohol and aromamaterials (in other words, will tend to neither absorb more or release any on...
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    Re: Shaking/stirring device

    Shaking will do the job 100%.
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    Re: Shaking/stirring device

    I haven't seen what they use but it may be a vortex mixer, which has the advantage of not having to add or remove anything to or from the material being mixed.

    Once a solution is fully mixed,...
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    Re: Question about notes ratio

    Smell it and see! :)
  60. Re: Orange Blossom/Neroli Accord- do I have the right stuff?

    The formula was designed to showcase Florhydral, so it stands to reason that without that it will suffer badly. That's the raison d'etre of such formulas.
  61. Re: Orange Blossom/Neroli Accord- do I have the right stuff?

    So far as I know PA's accords (so-called "Key Accords" though there is nothing key about them) are simply copies of demo formulas for particular ingredients. I wouldn't recommend them above for...
  62. Thread: One Tip

    by Bill Roberts
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    Re: One Tip

    A first consideration is, what is the accuracy of your scale? (There is another recent thread with a post on accuracy vs precision, but briefly, if a scale says it is precise to say 0.001 g, on one...
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    Re: Rate yesterday’s soup de jour!

    I bought the 200 g version of that scale, on your recommendation of that make, and definitely second the recommendation.

    I may be wrong on this because the information available on the eBay page...
  64. Re: Hi guys. at this crazy times.... Anti septic formula anyone?

    [not my day on posting: misread above post and so my intended reply had zero relevance]
  65. Re: I hope this question about a "personality" doesn't offend anyone, but I need to ask...

    [accidental double post]
  66. Re: I hope this question about a "personality" doesn't offend anyone, but I need to ask...

    A number of times in a number of areas a way to success is to adopt or present a persona of a cult leader type. Admitting merits to other ways or shortcomings of the advocated way doesn't work well...
  67. Re: I hope this question about a "personality" doesn't offend anyone, but I need to ask...

    Not just you, but whether just you and me, I don't know.
  68. Re: Hi guys. at this crazy times.... Anti septic formula anyone?

    If concerned about a virus, it's a question of washing off (and preferably minimizing picking up and spreading to face) vs antimicrobial activity, so nothing special is needed.
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    Re: Best Kits for Beginners

    ^^^
    This.

    Also these days it doesn't have to cost a lot.
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    Re: How do you access the GCA page on TGSC?

    It already was!

    Having an entire list to scan through can quickly show information you want actually is available and so prompt you to go get it. I had previously relied on the Essential Oils...
  71. Interesting for some: Progress apparently made in replicating cannabis odor

    I got an e-mail alerting me of this as a result of Abstrax being a terpenes supplier I've bought from (very happy with them by the way).

    As this exact matter has been posted and discussed a number...
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    Re: How do you access the GCA page on TGSC?

    Thank you Big L!
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    Re: Sandalwood Perfume

    Quite likely waxing eccentrically and impractically philosophical here, but Mr P's post and others remind me:

    We had a member, DrSmellThis, who often made a point I found very interesting and had...
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    Re: Sandalwood Perfume

    [accidental double post]
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    Re: Sandalwood Perfume

    My grandmother had a box made of sandalwood, either all or entirely I don't now know, and I believe that is my main memory reference.

    Real mysore was once cheap and widespread.
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    Re: Sandalwood Perfume

    Needaname, To me the santalol is a major part of it, in itself absolutely (for me) triggering the recognition and getting into the general feeling, and doesn't distract me with "off" notes.

    But it...
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    Re: Sandalwood Perfume

    Hi James!

    I have yet to acquire a sandalwood that matches what I smelled in the 70's even in common (though high end) products such as soaps.

    Perfumer's Apprentice sells something they call a...
  78. Re: My order for perfumers supply house:) !!!

    What comes to mind immediately is concretes of jasmine sambac, tuberose, lavender, geranium, and violet leaf, and Jasmine sambac floral wax. Essential oils I have purchased from them have always been...
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    Re: Ingredients with no sweetness

    Glad it helped!

    Not saying it's a fact this will help, but I understand it has been thoroughly demonstrated (in the industry) that non-professional evaluators' given reasons for not liking things...
  80. Re: Can someone please tell me what the difference is between

    Not to repeat myself but this thread seems more about showing the quite large amount you know than being genuinely interested in any answers to "questions." Best advice is to study each material...
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    Re: Ingredients with no sweetness

    You can use the Search function at TGSC, http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/search2.html , and enter Sweet into the Search for Odor. Avoiding using any of these ingredients could solve the problem....
  82. Re: Can someone please tell me what the difference is between

    Really answering these would require not just posts or even a single book but volumes of books.

    To quote a review of a good book on the subject that I read substantially, but not all of, back when...
  83. Re: Can someone please tell me what the difference is between

    Thank you, I appreciate that.

    Overall I feel that there are broad generally true answers for your original questions as taken broadly, and others gave great such answers.

    If needing a detailed,...
  84. Re: My order for perfumers supply house:) !!!

    First to be sure I don't communicate anything that's the opposite of what I'd want to communicate: Below I am in no way criticizing the fine suppliers Creatingperfume.com or Perfumer's Apprentice. I...
  85. Re: Can someone please tell me what the difference is between

    I see your reply and in a vast number of words you failed to back your insistence I was incorrect in my statement, very much applicable to anyone involved with the FDA and essential oils, which you...
  86. Re: Can someone please tell me what the difference is between

    Not that it's important, but I was struck by seeing the comma in your quote, as there was none originally yet I was accused of ignoring the alleged comma, an accusation which I chose to, well, ignore...
  87. Re: Can someone please tell me what the difference is between

    Well I sincerely hope you do know more than me. Working for 20 years plus in industries requiring FDA compliance of course does not mean I know everything about compliance. If so, kindly tell me...
  88. Re: Can someone please tell me what the difference is between

    Coca-Cola's extract? That's the specific one you said. Seems implausible.

    You are not correct re FDA. Some eo's can be used in foods and others, not. Even within a type that can be allowed, some...
  89. Re: Perfumer and Flavorist Article, March 2020 issue, Feature article on PK and Schiff bases.

    I agree with that reason for no reason to favor organic, but in some cases I believe the extraction method can be different, which can affect results. The differences between Eden Botanicals...
  90. Re: Can someone please tell me what the difference is between

    Interesting, I did not know that, thank you, though I believe it remains correct that no one but Coca-Cola is going to have what you said specifically, Coca-Cola's extract.

    And it certainly...
  91. Re: Can someone please tell me what the difference is between

    Coca-Cola decocaine-ized coca leaf extract does not fit into any real-world list of perfuming at all, as it is 100% unobtainium to anyone but perhaps 0.01% of Coca-Cola employees if even that, is not...
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    Re: My formula (advice+help)

    IMO, it is way too heavy in Javanol. Paradoxically, overdosing Javanol makes sandalwood note seem weaker.

    Unlike many other materials, it seems Javanol overdose commonly blunts scent perception...
  93. Re: Can someone please tell me what the difference is between

    Thank you for posting this (as well as the unquoted parts.)

    It reminded me first of something about hydrosols I think interesting, and, bigger, reminded me of something I really wanted to do but...
  94. Re: anyone know a place to do a cheap safety and stability test, USA?

    Cheapest way is to buy a thermostatically controlled hotplate, make an open-ended reasonably insulated box that can sit on top of it and enclose it and what you have on it, set to 45 C (48 C has been...
  95. Re: Formulas - numbers next to the ingrediants - meaning?

    As an example, picking this one as it was included in a formula recently discussed:

    https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/Images/sds/Key%20Accord%20Formula/orangeflower.pdf

    Terpineol alpha - 25...
  96. Re: Formulas - numbers next to the ingrediants - meaning?

    Glad it helped! :)
  97. Re: Formulas - numbers next to the ingrediants - meaning?

    They can be whatever weight you want.

    It's usually easier to sum the ingredients and if they don't add to 100, to 1000, or to whatever total weight you want, divide or multiply as needed.
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    Re: So I got my oakmoss. Now what?

    Not allowed by IFRA, which differs from not allowed period.
  99. Re: Beginner- is it possible to create your own fragrance oils?

    "Fragrance oil" = commercial product containing mostly a carrier and some amount of aromachemicals and possibly essential oils, generally cheaply made. For some reason I think many just starting out...
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    Re: So I got my oakmoss. Now what?

    It's still too cheap to be real, and the same company sells other clear fakes.
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Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000