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    Re: Eugenol is Heavy restricted... And clove eo?

    See pages 6-9, below:

    http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2003:066:0026:0035:en:PDF

    While Directive 2003/15/EC doesn't restrict their level of use, 5 of the 26 are...
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    Re: Eugenol is Heavy restricted... And clove eo?

    No, I'm afraid that you're building this up into something that it wasn't. If you'd had the opportunity to read the entire conversation, then you'd know that NebelGeist repeatedly tried to explain...
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    Re: Eugenol is Heavy restricted... And clove eo?

    I'm only teasing, no real harm meant. ;)
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    Re: Eugenol is Heavy restricted... And clove eo?

    My apologies........you're just very slow then. lol
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    Re: Eugenol is Heavy restricted... And clove eo?

    I'm starting to think that this guy's a troll.
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    Re: Eugenol is Heavy restricted... And clove eo?

    0.5 (maximum permitted % of eugenol in finished product)

    0.733 (in division this equates to 73.3% - the indicative level of eugenol in clove bud oil)

    0.68% (maximum permitted level of clove...
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    Re: Eugenol is Heavy restricted... And clove eo?

    Nothing in the IFRA statement is contrary to what we have been saying. We were talking about the indicative level of eugenol in the clove oil. Hence, the calculation is as follows:

    0.5 ÷ 0.733 =...
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    Re: Eugenol is Heavy restricted... And clove eo?

    Good for you but that is not always the case. I know of several companies outside of the EU that have not been able to furnish me with such documents. However, as it turns out that this wasn't what...
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    Re: Eugenol is Heavy restricted... And clove eo?

    No, you're going the long way round. We're informing him of the amount of pure oil allowed in the finished product, if using the IFRA published figure. If he wants to dilute a dilution (concentrate)...
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    Re: Eugenol is Heavy restricted... And clove eo?

    The IFRA figure should only be used if the documents for the oil don't include the eugenol content. Usually this won't be an issue as an allergen certificate should be available, unless it's sourced...
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    Re: Eugenol is Heavy restricted... And clove eo?

    If the documents for your clove bud oil don't include the eugenol content (they should) then you can use the IFRA's published figures (see Annex I to the 48th Amendment for the content of eugenol in...
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    Re: cannabis-hashish scent

    If you want more of an indica effect then you might also want to add some guaiacwood oil, as it is particularly rich in one of the components found in indica varieties – guaiol. It won't smell like...
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    Re: cannabis-hashish scent

    They smell significantly different, but cannabis contains both so I'd recommend that you use both. Caryophyllene oxide is available from Perfumers Apprentice.

    Vetikol acetate is available from...
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    Re: cannabis-hashish scent

    Beta caryophyllene oxide, it's what the sniffer dogs are trained to detect in cannabis.
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    Re: beta Damascone. Why so restricted?

    As I said, the correct pictogram for all three is GHS07. GHS08 only relates to respiratory sensitization, not skin sensitization. All three are classified specifically as skin sensitizers.
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    Re: beta Damascone. Why so restricted?

    The correct pictogram for all three is GHS07. Neither are classified as carcinogenic, germ cell mutagenic or reprotoxic.
  17. Re: GRAS materials (absolutes and essential oils)

    Yes, I'm not entirely convinced that "tuberose oil" isn't an erroneous synonym of tuberose absolute. If so, then one could use up to 0.26 ppm of the absolute.
  18. Re: GRAS materials (absolutes and essential oils)

    The average maximum used in beverages, for jasmine absolute, is 0.41 ppm (see page 29, below). That equates to 0.00041 g per kg of beverage.
    ...
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    Re: What I did in the 80s.

    Yes, I think it's partly because David set us a fun game, partly because we rarely discuss anything other than high end perfumery and partly because we miss the 80s.
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    Re: What I did in the 80s.

    Yes, although they used a specific kind from America. They switched to using a different kind in around 2001 and the smell was never quite the same after that. The former is no longer produced...
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    Re: What I did in the 80s.

    It originally contained rosemary extract, thyme extract, otto of rose and various spice oils. It later came to include coal tar, which is now banned (since 1997). The smell of the rosin (sodium...
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    Re: What I did in the 80s.

    Interesting, David. What about Wright's Coal Tar Shampoo, did you work on the fragrance yourself or just other members of the firm? Roughly what year was that?
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    Re: beta Damascone. Why so restricted?

    The IFRA restricted it because it's a sensitizer, presumably to a small proportion of the general public. The restriction relates to all of the rose ketones (damascones and damascenones).

    To...
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    Re: High Impact aroma chemicals

    See below for more info:

    http://www.riversidearomatics.com/pdf/High%20Impact%20Aroma%20Chemicals%20I%20-%20More%20Fizz%20For%20Your%20Buck.pdf
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    Re: natural preservatives

    Rosemary oil does have some antioxidant activity but it can vary from batch to batch and the strong odour may affect that of the other oils. Rosemary antioxidant extract and ROE, on the other hand,...
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    Re: natural preservatives

    Unfortunately not, it's the nonvolatile constituents that possess most of the antioxidant activity. Hermitage do sell it but their online store is down while they move to mainland Europe. Try The...
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    Re: natural preservatives

    The alcohol content would need to be below ~25% volume in order for acetobacteria to turn it into vinegar. Without them, oxidation of alcohol is extremely slow, so it will keep for many, many years...
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    Re: Santalol - Robertet?

    I recently contacted Evolva with regard to the availability of a- and b-santalol and they said that they're still in the strain development phase and that it may be another three years before they...
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    Re: natural preservatives

    What do you want to stop from oxidising, the aroma compounds?

    Rosemary extracts such as ROE are often deodorised. There is usually still a faint odour but due to the small amount required it can...
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    Re: Damask rose problems

    IFF, Robertet and Charabot sell rose oil with a reduced methyl eugenol content. However, they are wholesalers and don't usually sell in quantities less than 1-5 kg. If you want a smaller quantity...
  31. Thread: Aged lavender?

    by Pears
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    Re: Aged lavender?

    It was not meant in a condescending manner. While it wasn't in actuality contrary to my point, it was, in fact, a very useful addition.
  32. Thread: Aged lavender?

    by Pears
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    Re: Aged lavender?

    As the narrator didn't relay any details about storage conditions, I couldn't state that according to the distiller it wouldn't deteriorate "under the right conditions". However, yes, obviously we're...
  33. Thread: Aged lavender?

    by Pears
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    Re: Aged lavender?

    Indeed, that is another factor that needs to be taken into account. As with many species in the Lamiaceae family, lavender produces both capitate and peltate glandular trichomes. Studies on other...
  34. Thread: Aged lavender?

    by Pears
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    Re: Aged lavender?

    Yes, I meant sealed bottles. Ideally filled near to the top, with just a small amount of headspace for expansion. It is better to decant some into a smaller bottle for regular use, so that the bulk...
  35. Thread: Aged lavender?

    by Pears
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    Re: Aged lavender?

    I had to look up "flesh is heir to", it's a line from Hamlet.

    Your first point would be valid if the oil was left exposed to the environment but realistically we're talking about storing the oil...
  36. Thread: Aged lavender?

    by Pears
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    Re: Aged lavender?

    Yes, of course it comes down to how stable the components are. My point was that if the oil glands are considerably longer lived than the corollae of most plants, then it would be reasonable to...
  37. Thread: Aged lavender?

    by Pears
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    Re: Aged lavender?

    To further clarify, while oil glands are produced on the corollae (petals), the majority are found on the calyces. The corollae die soon after fertilisation but the calyces remain intact for the rest...
  38. Thread: Aged lavender?

    by Pears
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    Re: Aged lavender?

    Lavender produces it's oil in external oil glands, which are much longer lived than the flowers themselves. The oil may therefore be designed to be relatively stable, compared to oils produced within...
  39. Thread: Aged lavender?

    by Pears
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    Re: Aged lavender?

    Hi Clare,

    you may like to watch this old newsreel from Heacham Lavender Farm, in Norfolk:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhUXVn3wN7s

    Near the end, the narrator states, "Arthur Smalls has...
  40. Re: IFRA % fragrance concentrate versus finished product

    The figures next to the blue highlighted text relate to IFRA standards and/or the concentration of IFRA restricted materials in the substance. The 4% below that is just a recommendation by Good...
  41. Re: Good sources for genuine 100% pure lavender essential oil ?

    It depends on the quantity required and your location. The best lavender is often considered to be population lavender (population meaning that it has been grown from seed), as it tends to have a...
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    Re: toluene in perfumes

    The use of toluene in cosmetics has been restricted to nail products only, as of 2013 (regulation (EU) No 344/2013). If your product was made after that date, then the toluene could not have been...
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    Re: toluene in perfumes

    The last ingredient is BHT (Butylated hydroxytoluene). It is a preservative used to prevent oxidation.

    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51WRrx3ytdL.jpg
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    Re: toluene in perfumes

    Toluene wouldn't be of much use anyhow as it has a boiling point of 111 °C. You could use ethylbenzene, which is structurally very similar to toluene and has a similar odor profile (sweet, gasoline),...
  45. Thread: Cedar note.

    by Pears
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    Re: Cedar note.

    The oil of California redwood isn't commercially produced. The wood is said to have a distinct odour while being worked, although one source states that only the heartwood has a distinctive odour....
  46. Thread: Cedar note.

    by Pears
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    Re: Cedar note.

    Paste the URL into google and then click on 'Translate this page', underneath the link.
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    Re: Dark orange stain from perfume

    I'm curious to know what the Schiff bases of indole and cinnamaldehyde and skatole and cinnamaldehyde smell like compared to their precursors. Anyone know? If the effects aren't that great then I may...
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    Re: Black afgano base v 1.0

    For a realistic note of hashish, you'll want to add some caryophyllene oxide.
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    Re: Black pepper smell w/o eugenol

    You might also want to consider adding some sabinene.
  50. Re: "Chill-filtering": is this the correct term in perfumery?

    If the link above doesn't work then paste it into a search engine or try below.
    ...
  51. Re: "Chill-filtering": is this the correct term in perfumery?

    Interesting, Amanda. While it's meaning may have originally stemmed from the practice of cooling with ice, it would be better to translate it in the sense that it is now intended.

    If you scroll...
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    Re: Cinnamyl Nitrile (Cinnamalva)

    Indeed, nitriles are generally very stable and therefore don't discolour. Yes, I'd describe the unpleasant note as somewhat metallic. It can be managed if the dose isn't too high.
  53. Re: "Chill-filtering": is this the correct term in perfumery?

    A few sites use the word glaçage in the context of cooling with ice (below). So, yes, given the context of the book it most likely meant cooling with ice. I'm curious to know when the book was first...
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    Re: Cinnamyl Nitrile (Cinnamalva)

    Alternatively you could use alpha-methyl cinnamaldehyde.
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    Re: Common factor between these

    Probably oakmoss or patchouli.
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    Re: Cinnamyl Nitrile (Cinnamalva)

    If you can't source cinnamyl nitrile then try Cinnamon Bark Oliffac, as it contains primarily cinnamyl nitrile. Personally, I find cinnamyl nitrile irritating to the nasal membranes. I would...
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    Re: Truffle middle note

    I can only speak for the situation in the EU, as it may differ in Russia. The main issue is that the degree of purity and, indeed, the impurities must be appropriately analysed. See sections 3-3.4...
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    Re: Truffle middle note

    As David said, the odour of truffles is fleeting. Not only because most of the odourants are highly volatile but also because their concentrations are very low. 3-ethylphenol is less volatile than...
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    Re: Truffle middle note

    I know exactly what it means, I used to buy from such suppliers.



    I didn't say that they did. It's not a rare chemical.

    I tried to explain not to take the word "grade" too literally. It was...
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    Re: Truffle middle note

    Okay, there are a couple of recent reviews on Fragrantica regarding reformulation:





    https://www.fragrantica.com/perfume/Bvlgari/Bvlgari-Pour-Homme-143.html
  61. Replies
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    Re: Truffle middle note

    I originally wrote "Bvlgari Pour Homme is said to contain notes of...", but hit delete by accident and I had to start again. What I forgot to include the second time round was "...is said to...",...
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    Re: Truffle middle note

    Bvlgari Pour Homme is said to contain notes of black tea, guaicwood, vetiver and oakmoss. Black tea contains various phenols, just one of which being 3-ethylphenol. Guaiacwood also has a similar...
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    Re: Truffle middle note

    By "suitable", what is meant is material that is not sold for "laboratory use only" or "research and development purposes only". If you read the terms and conditions of most of the chemical supply...
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    Re: Truffle middle note

    I know Serg, but that is not a suitable grade for use in perfumery. I have researched this material very thoroughly. If it's for personal use only, then go ahead and buy it if you wish.
  65. Replies
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    Re: Truffle middle note

    Yes, 3-ethyl phenol has a distinct smell of truffles. The issues that you'll find, are that it's not widely available in a suitable grade and that it's prohibitively expensive (>$2000/kg).

    If you...
  66. Re: "Chill-filtering": is this the correct term in perfumery?

    There is one other possibility as to why the word glaçage was originally used. During cooling, any excess waxes begin to crystallize, often causing a cloudy or frosty appearance in the solution. If...
  67. Re: "Chill-filtering": is this the correct term in perfumery?

    Indeed, cold filtration is another term that is widely used in industry. Like winterization and dewaxing, it's not a literal translation of the word Glaçage, but perhaps a literal translation isn't...
  68. Re: "Chill-filtering": is this the correct term in perfumery?

    Glaçage translates as glazing or icing (frosting in US English) and it was often used in the context of glazing cakes, vases, glass, paper, etc. However, given the context of the book, a more literal...
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    Re: Were can I find this!

    Adam Sherman patented a similar design for use in multi-compartment containers:

    https://www.google.si/patents/US6283316


    You could try contacting him to see if he knows of any manufacturers...
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    Re: Citrus Persistence

    You're welcome, Leonard. Incidentally, I'm not sure why I said "extend" when I meant "stretch". Probably a subconscious thing. Basically, Verymoss can be used to stretch oakmoss absolute, making it...
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    Re: Citrus Persistence

    Nice looking formula, Jeroen. Obviously he could replace the bergamot and grapefruit with lime, if he wanted.

    Leo, the olibanum in the formula is otherwise known as frankincense so no need to buy...
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    Re: Citrus Persistence

    That is the nature of the beast, unfortunately. Folded citrus oils tend to last slightly longer. Nitriles, such as Lemonile, tend to last much longer but they are best used in moderation. Fixatives...
  73. Re: Any heard of (4E,9Z)-13-methyloxacyclopentadeca-4,9-dien-2-one ?

    Givaudan are the holders.

    Your best bet would be to use similar lactones such as ambrettolide and ethylene brassylate, with a little methyl jasmonate for the jasmin and green notes.
  74. Replies
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    Re: Where can I find a strong oud? (uk)

    Genuine oud is very expensive, £25 might buy you about 1 ml of the pure material. Many of the so-called oud fragrances these days contain synthetic oud. Nothing quite compares to the natural material...
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    Re: The Smell of 2-stroke

    Try a combination of m-cresol, guaiacol, thymol, eugenol, 6-methyl quinoline, indole, styrax oil, juniper berry oil, patchouli oil and a trace of birch tar.
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    Re: Watermelon accord

    See the the odor descriptors for watermelon, below:

    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/odor/watermelon.html
  77. Re: Question about a cooling sensation from two well known niche scents

    If you want the cooling sensation of menthol but without the strong smell, then you may find the article below of interest.

    http://www.leffingwell.com/cooler_than_menthol.htm
  78. Replies
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    It doesn't really matter if you've used it as a fragrance, you negatively reviewed it's odour. I forgot to include guaiacol and cade, you negatively reviewed them also. The former is a methoxy phenol...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    The alkyl phenols were discussed in the context of using them in bases and accords. I'm not sure where you got the idea of using them neat.

    Of course it's odour "texture" is different from...
  80. Thread: Ashes accord?

    by Pears
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    Re: Ashes accord?

    Ah, I thought that it was you who mentioned cigarettes but it was in fact Palmolive.

    For a wood ash accord you can use crude cade oil or crude birch tar. However, kiln burned pine tar has more of...
  81. Thread: Ashes accord?

    by Pears
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    Re: Ashes accord?

    Indeed, styrax is sometimes added to tobacco as a flavouring. It is hard to find good styrax resinoid these days (much of it has been stripped of it's oil), so either the essential oil or the...
  82. Replies
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    Both are strong smelling but considerably less so than p-cresol, which is widely used in the fragrance industry. The strength shouldn't really be an issue for experienced perfumers.

    For ethical...
  83. Re: Which is your favorite site to buy undiluted fragrance oils for DIY fragrance?

    Okay, try the following then:

    creatingperfume.com
    perfumersapprentice.com
    perfumersupplyhouse.com
  84. Re: Which is your favorite site to buy undiluted fragrance oils for DIY fragrance?

    Most perfumers use bases or replacers, which are similar to fragrance oils but targeted more at the professional. What is your location?
  85. Replies
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    Re: Dorinia SA E - how did they do it?

    Thank you, J. I've read the thread before but again I appreciate the consideration.

    Wardia is now available from Pell Wall, for those seeking an EU supplier.

    With regard to Dorinia, while it...
  86. Thread: Quinolines

    by Pears
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    Re: Quinolines

    6-methyl quinoline has an animalic note that is somewhat similar to the meta and para substituted alkyl phenols - horsy, fecal and offal-like. It also has notes of tobacco and tonka, although it's...
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    Re: Dorinia SA E - how did they do it?

    Thanks, Rob. I was aware that PW sell Wardia but I appreciate your consideration

    Liaison Carbone sell damascenone. It smells less fruity than beta damascone and it is considerably more...
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    Re: Good Scents down??

    Yes, their site has only been working intermittently for the last couple of days. It is probably down for maintenance work. I also use google cache during such times. None of the tabs work but you...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    Dear Serg, the longevity for each will be different but you would need to test them side by side over the course of a few days to know how they compare. p-Cresol has a substantivity of about 400...
  90. Replies
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    Yes, that's not a bad theory. 2,4-dichlorophenol is also used in the synthesis of 2,4-DB.

    p-chloro-o-cresol is another likely candidate, as it is used in the synthesis of another commonly used...
  91. Replies
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    A mixture of phenol and tricresol smells predominately of p-cresol, as it has a much lower odour threshold than the other components. That is why it smells so animalic, the p-cresol, with a little...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    4-ethyl phenol smells quite different to phenol, it is much more animalic. It is one of the main contributors to the smell of castoreum.



    2,6-xylenol is somewhat smoky but it is much more...
  93. Thread: Honey Notes

    by Pears
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    Re: Honey Notes

    Cassia oil has a very strong and persistent smell of honey. Far more so than true cinnamon and Indonesian cinnamon.
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    Re: Has Proxisante folded?

    BLH-PIM and Diffusions Aromatiques are wholesalers but they do sell in amounts less than a kg. Requesting less than 100 g may be pushing your luck though, unless it's a really expensive material.
  95. Thread: Subway smell

    by Pears
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    2,892

    Re: Subway smell

    If you decide to use sparklers then just make sure that they're the kind that are suitable for indoor use. They're often used at cocktail bars, birthday parties and weddings.
  96. Thread: Subway smell

    by Pears
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    2,892

    Re: Subway smell

    For the smell of hot brake blocks and sparks, I guess you could light a sparkler every few minutes. Providing that you take adequate safety precautions, that is.
  97. Thread: Subway smell

    by Pears
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    2,892

    Re: Subway smell

    I would imagine that hot brake blocks and rail grease contribute significantly to the smell. If your brief was only to scent the air, then I guess you could heat up some rail grease.
  98. Thread: Subway smell

    by Pears
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    2,892

    Re: Subway smell

    3,4-xylenol is fine to use in fragrances, providing that the concentration in the finished product is deemed safe by your safety assessor. The NOAEL is 1.4 mg/kg/day but various endpoints need to be...
  99. Thread: Subway smell

    by Pears
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    2,892

    Re: Subway smell

    As David said, it also contains pine needle oil, isopropyl alcohol, castor oil, soap and water.



    I wasn't actually recommending it for use in fragrances applied to the skin. Javiero mentioned...
  100. Thread: Subway smell

    by Pears
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    Re: Subway smell

    I've never used the Spanish underground, so I couldn't say which disinfectant they use. I'm just offering an alternative if the alkyl phenols aren't a match. Indeed, the chloroxylenol is responsible...
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