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  1. Re: Perfume Game: Summer's night near the coastline / beach

    Ah yes, Dunes & Roses is mine. I needed to quickly change the way samples were packed and some information got obscured.
    Thanks for the info.

    Tracking says Paul's has been "left with individual",...
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    Re: Dipropylene glycol and water perfume

    The answer I got once from a Sufi perfumer was that alcohol isn't evil or impure in itself. But the opinion might vary between schools.
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    Re: Dipropylene glycol and water perfume

    There's an obvious communication barrier.

    Obviously, there are plenty very successful water-oil based products bought almost exclusively for their odour. Some body lotions make a better fragrance...
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    Re: How to make Neroli Portofino style accord?

    It's been a while I've been obsessed with the idea that ability to find similarities is an upgrade to the ability of finding differences. Just a side note.
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    Re: How to make Neroli Portofino style accord?

    Insertion of a contradicting opinion makes the thread much more valuable.
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    Re: How to make Neroli Portofino style accord?

    Certainly true for early twentieth century: Handbuch der gesamten Parfümerie und Kosmetik. Fred Winter. Wien 1927 contains plenty formulas with civet in (literally every floral formula contains it)....
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    Re: How do you count your drops?

    The reason for using weight rather than drops (volume is yet another way) isn't really accuracy. It's simply impractical and tedious to correctly use drops.

    Weirdly, for a given substance 100...
  8. Thread: Flower Concretes.

    by xii
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    Re: Flower Concretes.

    As far as I know, most floral absolutes are being made from fresh flowers. Lavender being one of the exceptions.

    Most of your questions are answered in this book
  9. Re: Musk tincture surprise and disappointment (Warning: slightly Naughty language)

    It's been suggested that the extreme perception of Aldron has something to do with its similarity to some steroids present in mammal pheromones. Apparently Aldron mimics androsterone which, along ...
  10. Re: Many questions - crystal dilution, hedione, musky notes, perfumersnote

    Spectacular leakers happen to the best suppliers. Must we really use this forum to wash dirt?
  11. Re: Many questions - crystal dilution, hedione, musky notes, perfumersnote

    Can someone explain me why we need this information?
  12. Re: Many questions - crystal dilution, hedione, musky notes, perfumersnote

    OK, let's try cut it short before the thread inflates:

    1. Ambroxan will dissolve in DPG at 10% once heat applied. Body heat should do. Nonetheless, it will crystallise at room temperature.

    2....
  13. Re: Many questions - crystal dilution, hedione, musky notes, perfumersnote

    Let's start:



    They do.
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    Re: Question about box productions

    No.
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    Re: Making perfume : Clear liquid?

    Molecular distillates from many oils and absolutes can be quite colourless. Patchouly oil is such, MD is completely colourless. Same with tobacco and oakmoss absolutes. Refined birch tar oil is dark...
  16. Re: How do I know my perfume doesn't accidentally kill someone

    His point was that liability might be, frequently is, and in many cases should be imposed in spite of compliance with the rules.
  17. Re: How do I know my perfume doesn't accidentally kill someone

    Generally you don't know whether your perfume could kill. But all you can do is to keep your information about perfume ingredients up-to-date.
    Decades of use don't really guarantee anything.
    This...
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    Re: Saffron: Interesting information

    My five years old tincture in original classic pharmacy bottle (it reads Crocus). I actually bought it with several grams of saffron still in.

    128889

    It's just strong enough to map saffron...
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    Re: Help with Fig Formula.

    Your formula looks fine. Just one thing, is Verdilyn neat?
    Here some superb info compiled by fragrantregard.
  20. Re: Suggestions on making an Elemi accord which functions in the mid the base range.

    Elemi might last quite long on a blotter in some form but it looses its character very quickly. I had some success with the following progressions:
    elemi - Sichuan pepper SFE - gurjun balsam
    elemi...
  21. Re: Wondering about supplier's informations

    Caesar & Lorenz still carry Castoreum Canadense plv.; Bibergeil. Here, castoreum, Internet Apotheke. I literally went to a pharmacy (Schwan Apotheke in Heidelberg, superb team) and they ordered it...
  22. Re: Wondering about supplier's infos to prediluted materials and shelf life

    A problem is, obsession with "learning" materials is a major source of limitation. Self imposed at that. I'd rather we learnt create from whatever material at hand.

    Castoreum used to be available...
  23. Thread: Woody/Spicy notes

    by xii
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    Re: Woody/Spicy notes

    Would you attribute the effect to labdanum and/or benzoin combined with methyl diantilis?
  24. Thread: Drying agents.

    by xii
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    Re: Drying agents.

    Reassuringly, physics appears impervious to arrogance, no matter how adamant.

    Same tube, with salt largely removed after several washings with hot distilled water and twelve more hours. Still...
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    Re: Transparent Strawberry Accord

    C14, C16, C18 also fit the criterion. That's actually the very source of the divergence in nomenclature.


    It's not being picky. If one insists on using proper chemical nomenclature in perfumery,...
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    Re: Transparent Strawberry Accord

    If impatient, try gamma - undecalactone (C14). Tiny amount.
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    Re: Transparent Strawberry Accord

    How about a little bit of gamma - decalactone?
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    Re: About centifolether

    It has some vague rose like qualities and strong functional product connotation. What I enjoy in its odour is young carrot stem broken just above the root. I suppose one could use it in pink...
  29. Re: I'm looking for materials to combine with Castoreum for a sex accord, any Ideas?

    I had this insane idea once to combine castoreum with Palo Santo oil. Palo Santo oil smells like frankincense with a persistent burning, mint, grapefruit, fatty, urban, industrial, motor oil, head...
  30. Thread: Drying agents.

    by xii
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    Re: Drying agents.

    I'm quite enthusiastic about aiding phase separation with brine. I believe I posted about it a few times here. However, it's not a great idea in case of separating EOs from hydrosol.

    Benzyl...
  31. Thread: Drying agents.

    by xii
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    Re: Drying agents.

    Some essential oils including cassia, clove and myrrh are heavier than water. Clove oil may, but sometimes may not, go straight to the bottom. Myrrh oil is very tricky because it's constituents...
  32. Thread: Drying agents.

    by xii
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    Re: Drying agents.

    I don't actively dry essential oils but I remove condensed water if visible. Transfer to another bottle or pipetting water out seems to suffice. None of my oils went bad and the bulk of them were...
  33. Thread: Perfume synthesis

    by xii
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    Re: Perfume synthesis

    Both are good.
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    Re: Oud Chypre Base for Natural Perfumers

    Once you mention isobornyl propionate, I use pine absolute in oud accords. I imagine it could be a nice addition to an oud chypre.
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    Re: Oud Chypre Base for Natural Perfumers

    Crap, I meant jatamansi (spikenard, narde). Will correct the post.
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    Re: Oud Chypre Base for Natural Perfumers

    And jatamansi and castoreum. Some ouds, I think from Laos, have a nagarmotha note. If I remember correctly 'Ilm has it Kemi has castoreum and Hayat has cypriol. All by Al Kimya.
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    Re: Oud Chypre Base for Natural Perfumers

    A perfume containing oud doesn't need to have it as a note. An example is 33 by Ex Idolo. Apparently there is real aged Chinese oud in it, the reason I actually bought it, but I can't really detect...
  38. Thread: Lilac construct

    by xii
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    Re: Lilac construct

    She's 11 but oblivious of money so I bribed her with glass cabochons. It's such a cliché, isn't it?
  39. Thread: Lilac construct

    by xii
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    Re: Lilac construct

    c3H is alcohol, sorry I copied and pasted verbatim.
    The duel between lilac pentanol and tetrahydrolinalool ended in a tie. The latter being easier to get and cheaper made it to the formula.

    Edit:...
  40. Thread: Lilac construct

    by xii
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    Lilac construct

    With variety of lilac blossom for my annual enfleurage on our dining table I asked my daughter to evaluate chemicals I chose (about 30) for their subjective presence in lilac odour. Some of them...
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    Re: Problem with marine notes

    At 10% paper stripes:

    Aquaflor is sharper, more ozonic and more like the grassy patches on ski routes and wakame. Turns warmer and ever so more floral while drying down. Some lilacs have Aquaflor...
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    Re: Blenders List - please do add

    I wouldn't frown but it seems quite difficult. I've had more success adding nuance to my own sloppy accords. Even more success removing nuance. PA key accords are very elegant in their simplicity but...
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    Re: Problem with marine notes

    I shouldn't answer. I don't really like smelling these but I wouldn't attribute them with rotten egg quality. I do get rotten egg from the combination of seaweed and ozone though. So you probably...
  44. Re: Perfume Game: Summer's night near the coastline / beach

    Heads up. I wanted to include a small empty and labelled atomiser vial but the post clerk told me today, totally off record, that it'd make the padded envelope too bulky and could invite a closer...
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    Re: Best solvent for aromatic fragrance extraction

    That's a good start. Cold filtering is a must in any case because you're going to collect a lot of plant debris during soxhlet extraction. You could use a finer filter in the adapter but if filter...
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    Re: Vanilla aromatic fragrance extraction.

    I did only super quick extraction from pulverised vanilla pods using dimethyl ether as a solvent. I got the yield of 10% actually. Thick dark liquid not entirely soluble in alcohol. which isn't bad...
  47. Re: Perfume Game: Summer's night near the coastline / beach

    I have one more week now and technically one more week in July before the deadline with access to my lab. So I may as well send my samples in one week or so. I don't function well under pressure.
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    Re: Oud Chypre Base for Natural Perfumers

    No top needed for tension. Take Bortnikoff's oud with water lily oudh perfume. There's no top really but you get the idea of tension. It's because in order to make this perfume you literally need to...
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    Re: Oud Chypre Base for Natural Perfumers

    Base like a base note in a chypre or base like a foundation of a chypre?

    In any case, a chypre, in however rudimentary form, requires tension. It should be dynamic and vibrant. Your formula is...
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    Re: Accidental discovery of Quorum

    I wouldn't bother. The question was a greeting of sorts.

    Why don't you mix these three oils into a vial and experiment a bit?
    Do you have other ingredients?
  51. Thread: Did You Know ?

    by xii
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    Re: Did You Know ?

    GC mock up. Take a pack of kleenex:
    127748
    remove the tissues, spray one end of it and put the tissues back, perfumed side to the far end The fragrance will very slowly diffuse towards the opening....
  52. Re: Hey, will I be too much if i asked for feedback for another formula? :)

    This formula looks similar to a perfume I like very much but this perfume contains neither tonka nor bicyclononalactone. Instead, it has some bitter dry leather in the base and more spices. Some...
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    Re: Fragrance solvent extraction.

    The problem is you'll need a very large extractor to process 2kg petals so that your yield is actually visible. Or you'll need over 20 batches with a standard size extractor... each batch some 2...
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    Re: Fragrance solvent extraction.

    It's difficult. I'd mince rose petals with some hexane, vacuum filter with several washings, and separate the water from the filtrate. If the amount were large enough I'd distill the water phase for...
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    Re: Fragrance solvent extraction.

    With fruits I wouldn't know where to start.

    Do you mean little blue rosemary flowers? If yes, the I suppose you could try to extract them with hexane. Alcohol picks up too much extra stuff.
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    Re: Fragrance solvent extraction.

    What do you want to extract?
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    Re: Advice for "lifting" my perfume recipe?

    When Marco Polo visited the courts of Kublai Khan he saw many objects of wonder. And that despite having travelled the globe as no one did before and despite Kublai Khan hardly ever leaving his...
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    Re: First post here! I need some help with naturals.

    That's what I needed to hear in the beginning. It's very hard to let the material obsession go if you enter perfuming with profound admiration for classic oriental materials. It took me at least two...
  59. Re: Tell me my formula is insane and a mess (or don't!)

    About half a century ago they figured out at Boeing that everyone's opinion matters. Apparently many plane crashes can be attributed to stubborn pilots assuming they know better than everyone else on...
  60. Re: Tell me my formula is insane and a mess (or don't!)

    It doesn't. Though I'm sure most members consider themselves very supportive.

    Why don't you tell us how to improve?
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    Chinese juniper leaf oil

    Last week I distilled leaves and young shots of an old Chinese juniper that happens to grow 15m from my front door. The oil turned out to be fruity in a delightful sulfurous manner. I heard copper...
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    Re: First post here! I need some help with naturals.

    It's musk ambrette, a banned nitromusk. Should be quite cheap if sourced.
  63. Re: This word doesn't mean what you think it means, not anymore anyway. Important.

    Having crunched some numbers I can hardly find any financial justification at all to supply DIY perfumers such as myself. There's a much easier to operate on and vastly more profitable market of...
  64. Re: Perfume Game: Summer's night near the coastline / beach

    I'm doing final touches to my perfume. Mainly just waiting for resupply of the middle note ingredient (very hard to find) so that I can make a larger batch. So far it's just 3,2 grams. I also...
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    Re: Should I Hydrate The Bentonite Before Filtering?

    I meant he was a perfumer who used Bentonite. Whether to perfume's benefit or not I don't know.
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    Re: Should I Hydrate The Bentonite Before Filtering?

    Check the link julian35 posted.
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    Re: what do you think of this formula?

    My cautious attitude towards Anther is certainly subjective. I actually like its odour straight up but I also learnt it ruthlessly exposes weakness that frequently follows initial blast of perfume...
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    Re: what do you think of this formula?

    I'm not TGSC. I explained clearly to have had troubles making Anther work in my blends. I hear triple Axel is a trifle for a professional male skater. For me it's quite frivolous as I can hardly...
  69. Replies
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    Re: Should I Hydrate The Bentonite Before Filtering?

    I've never used Bentonite on a ready perfume but I frequently use it to remove waxes from self made concretes. So once I get my concrete resolved in alcohol, mostly at 10% or so, I add about 1g of...
  70. Thread: Fresh hay accords

    by xii
    Replies
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    6,197

    Re: Fresh hay accords

    I also don't see any Javanol, Ebanol, Sandela, Firsantol, Polysantol, Sandlore Iso Mohanol and crap load of other such in any GCMS of any sandalwood oil. GCMS has very little in common with...
  71. Replies
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    Re: what do you think of this formula?

    I don't know all the components so I can't even imagine how things work together but the amount of Anther seems quite frivolous. If it somehow works anyway then good for you. I've wanted to overdose...
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    Re: Making Schiff Bases

    Ethanol will catch water from air quickly so such a high grade makes only sense if used immediately after opening.

    As for Schiff's bases, Dean-Stark trap setup and a suitable solvent should work...
  73. Re: Making an Absolute - Process, lessons learned, and recommendations

    Having extracted tobacco concrete I applied excess of ethanol to it and cold filtered. I didn't evaporate the alcohol and decided to keep the solution at 4%. I might still vacuum evaporate the...
  74. Re: Advice re isolates and ACs to add to a natural perfume - woods/incense/fruit

    The question is perfectly fine and I don't mind more of such.

    Adding to what Devil's Son In Law suggested, you may consider using materials in seemingly irrationally high amounts. I don't have a...
  75. Thread: Cold

    by xii
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    Re: Cold

    Cool idea! Z11 MIP might be one of the less obvious ones.
  76. Re: Making an Absolute - Process, lessons learned, and recommendations

    How did the ivy go? I'm planning to extract ivy leaf and young shots but I'm afraid the yield is too low. A week ago I needed to radically prune our 10 years old peach tree. From 4kg of minced leaves...
  77. Re: Making an Absolute - Process, lessons learned, and recommendations

    Anyways, if this extract is anything like flowers I'd have immediate application. Tropical fruit bases. Elderflower odour has a magnificent overripe decay component. It'd be tremendous in a passion...
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    Re: Sauvage-ish perfume formula.

    It's like cooking vs. ordering your meal. Advantages and disadvantages.

    Elemi resin tincture is too messy. Also my concrete is, at least initially, of pourable quality because of the high...
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    Re: Musk characteristics chart, plot axis

    This forum is so littered with repetitive crap that a proper search query is quite tricky: musk chart..
  80. Re: Making an Absolute - Process, lessons learned, and recommendations

    Ethanol is much harder to get rid of from a concrete so don't add much of it.
    The extract could be difficult to solve in ethanol by the way.

    How does the concrete's odour compare with the flower?...
  81. Re: Making an Absolute - Process, lessons learned, and recommendations

    That looks very nice. What size of soxhlet extractor do you use?

    Diethyl the degrades to peroxides that may explode spontaneously. Needs to be stored carefully. If you used in soxhlet and then...
  82. Thread: Substantivity...

    by xii
    Replies
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    1,499

    Re: Substantivity...

    With no intention to instigate an argument: humans learn odour perception from other humans rather than from personal experience. We associate odour of vanillin with sweetness because we are...
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    Re: Patchoulol refinement or substitution

    I haven't tried it with patchouly, it so happens I like dirty, but I did fractionate some other oils. For instance ylang into five parts. All fractions turned out very different from one another. So...
  84. Re: Making an Absolute - Process, lessons learned, and recommendations

    Storing it is a funny business.
    Otherwise it's a great solvent.
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    Re: Sauvage-ish perfume formula.

    He checked Aftel's price for benzyl benzoate natural isolate and decided to share with us his amazing discovery.
  86. Thread: Substantivity...

    by xii
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    Re: Substantivity...

    Incorrect is a euphemism.
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    Re: Sauvage-ish perfume formula.

    So I blended the formula. Frankincense EO instead resinoid, with elemi the other way around, replaced Bergamot 104 by Bergamot 136, used natural vetiverol and vetiveryl acetate.

    Now I think I can...
  88. Thread: Substantivity...

    by xii
    Replies
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    1,499

    Re: Substantivity...

    If you pay too much attention to these numbers they become useless. The rule of the thumb I use is, anything between half and double of the number listed on TGSC is possible. In the...
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    Re: Sauvage-ish perfume formula.

    If you decide to produce the resinoid yourself, let me know. I have 5kg of the elemi resin of experience.

    I might also add some Sichuan pepper SFE. It fills the gap between bergamot and elemi...
  90. Replies
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    Re: Sauvage-ish perfume formula.

    OK, I'll add some Bergamot 136, it should extend bergamot alright, and perhaps some Bergamal. Thanks!
    I'd also use elemi resinoid, it lasts much longer and fixes citrus.
  91. Replies
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    Re: Sauvage-ish perfume formula.

    I don't have Bergamot 104, instead I have the Firmenich's Bergamot 136. I'm quite sure the two are quite different. What replacement would you suggest? In other words what feature of Bergamot 104 is...
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    Re: Hermitage Oils bottles

    The bottles from Hermitage Oils, and many others intended for aromatherapy use, mostly work just fine with the polyethylene reducer/dropper still in place. Removing the reducer, crucial for efficient...
  93. Thread: Fresh hay accords

    by xii
    Replies
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    6,197

    Re: Fresh hay accords

    One more possible ingredient, sideritis aka: ironwort, shepherd's tea, mountain tea. It's warm herbal, a little minty, but not as strong as chamomile so it might work for fresh hay. Unfortunately, I...
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    Re: Help with diluting crystals and solids

    Guaiac heart should be miscible with ethanol, I keep it at 20% but 50% should work too. Musk ketone at 10% and Corps Oranger at 20% in benzyl benzoate.

    You might need to warm it.
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    Re: Please help to identify very famous note

    Surely, you've ruled it out already but it can't hurt to suggest: Lyral?
  96. Replies
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    Re: Creating EO accords

    Off the top of my head, anise, cinnamon, nutmeg and many other oils may balance the camphoraceous.
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    Re: Beginner questions / Aroma chemicals

    It's the alpha male thing. With Ruskin gone young ones fight for dominance.
    I'm quite picky myself but I got your meaning just fine.
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    Re: What gives some lavender its "blue" smell?

    Anther, green ether, Pommerol. If diluted, and it needs to be, it smells somewhat like wet lavender flowers. Anther doesn't occur in nature but I did some research and this wet effect could have to...
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    Re: What gives some lavender its "blue" smell?

    Bored during one rainy day I picked up some lavender flowers in my garden distilled them and bottled under lavender wet. It might possess the quality you described in the opening post. If that's the...
  100. Thread: Fresh hay accords

    by xii
    Replies
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    6,197

    Re: Stay away of Hay

    I like hay too. Quite a bit; my comment was a failed attempt to be funny. Variable quality, dark colour and the price could restrict its applications though.

    I could imagine to replace hay by...
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