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  1. Re: Styrax (Liquidambar orientalis) recommendations?

    By rarely, I mean that it is almost unheard of for it to produce any resin in Western Mediterranean and Israeli populations. One theory is that it needs a particular type of climate to produce resin;...
  2. Re: Styrax (Liquidambar orientalis) recommendations?

    I previously researched this issue, and it appears to be due to the fact that it rarely produces any resin. Someone has privately requested for more info, so I'll start a thread on the subject in the...
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    Re: Puzzled with ionones.

    In addition, alpha-isomethyl ionone smells more refined and less complex than the other two. It lacks much in the way of character by itself, but it has greater clarity than the others and can...
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    Re: Olfactory darkness and its ingredients

    I find Peru balsam to be much darker in aroma than Tolu balsam, but it may depend on the particular batch. Most of the Tolu balsam on the market these days is a reconstitution containing primarily...
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    Re: Anyone making their own fragrances for soap?

    Nice link, mintle. It is largely in accordance with my previous post, and he has a good understanding of the chemistry involved. I enjoyed reading your post. There are a good number of fragrance oils...
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    Re: Soap advice please... from animal products

    The spent fat from enfleurage was often used in soaps. However, the lye will often react with the aroma compounds present. If the fat has a strong scent, then you could preserve it by adding it...
  7. Re: Styrax (Liquidambar orientalis) recommendations?

    Genuine Styrax officinalis resin hasn't been available for over a century. If you'd like some clues as to what it smelt like, then let me know and I'll start a new thread on the subject, rather than...
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    Re: Anyone making their own fragrances for soap?

    Simply wetting the surface of the soap can lead to inaccurate readings. The correct procedure is to completely dissolve the soap before testing.



    You were using a universal indicator, which...
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    Re: Anyone making their own fragrances for soap?

    Indeed, HP soap is often pH adjusted after saponification. Transparent and liquid soap formulas in particular are often formulated with a 0% lye discount or a lye excess, to insure that there isn't...
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    Re: Anyone making their own fragrances for soap?

    Unfortunately, you can't make a functional soap with a pH of 7. It's possible to decrease the pH down to about 7.7-8.0 by adding additional saturated fatty acids, but the cleaning and lathering...
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    Re: Anyone making their own fragrances for soap?

    Solid soap has a pH upwards of 9, so you were most likely using synthetic detergent (syndet) or soap/syndet combination bar (combar) bases. However, you may have been using the term soap quite...
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    Re: Anyone making their own fragrances for soap?

    I would suggest that you test a plain soap bar, without goat milk or coffee. It should have a pH of 9-10.5 after having cured. If it's lower than 9, then I'd recommend that you read this:
    ...
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    Re: Anyone making their own fragrances for soap?

    See below for info on the relative stabilities in different media. I concur with George that the ratings given for soap are most likely based on hot process or milled soap:
    ...
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    Re: Anyone making their own fragrances for soap?

    A pH of 9-10 is normal for solid soap. Anything much lower than this tends to cause softening and a loss in performance. Unless you're making synthetic detergent bars, which doesn't appear to be the...
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    Re: Anyone making their own fragrances for soap?

    I believe that he was referring to the soap process.

    Solid fragrance materials will often be dissolved by the essential oils or liquid aroma compounds that you intend to use. First try mixing the...
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    Re: Anyone making their own fragrances for soap?

    I think that he was suggesting for you not to use your natural isolates until you're more familiar with controlling the process; which is sound advice.

    To avoid eruptions, always add the...
  17. Re: Obtaining true iron or copper metallic notes

    That's a very useful link, Chris. :thumbsup:
  18. Re: Styrax (Liquidambar orientalis) recommendations?

    Hey Jamie,

    their MSDS lists the CAS no. as 8024-01-9. Section 3.1.1.4. of the aforementioned paper states that this no. was replaced by 8046-19-3:

    "L. styraciflua products CAS: 8046-19-3...
  19. Re: Styrax (Liquidambar orientalis) recommendations?

    Hey Chris, it's good to see you on the forum again. You may find section 3.3.3 of the paper below of interest:



    http://ec.europa.eu/health/ph_risk/committees/04_sccp/docs/sccp_o_025a.pdf
  20. Re: Styrax (Liquidambar orientalis) recommendations?

    The reported yield of oil from the gum is often considerably lower than the amount of volatiles within the gum, so it would appear that the oil produced is often only a lighter fraction of the total...
  21. Re: Styrax (Liquidambar orientalis) recommendations?

    Indeed, it can be quite overpowering if not used in moderation. It's intended as a replacer for the essential oil, and is therefore much stronger than the resinoid or absolute. I once calculated...
  22. Re: Styrax (Liquidambar orientalis) recommendations?

    Hi Iforgot,

    their Styrax Essence is a synthetic substitute from IFF, otherwise known as Styrax Essence Oliffac. It's approx. 95% cinnamic alcohol, 4% benzyl cinnamate and 1% cinnamaldehyde. It's...
  23. Re: Siberian musk deer farm (looking for cooperation)

    I'd want to know more about the "intravital" extraction method before making a judgement about the ethicaility. I'd also want to know more about the living conditions and how much space each animal...
  24. Re: How to make beeswax absolute ? How to filter the waxes out of solution?

    Yes, a vacuum pump will help. However, with that much wax, there is a good chance that the filter will become clogged. To decrease the chance of that happening, you can prefilter the solution. A good...
  25. Thread: Date Accord

    by Pears
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    Re: Date Accord

    Ebanol has a notable date and maple-like quality.
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    Re: Birch Tar Challenge

    Any time, Julian.

    That sounds like fun, Adam.
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    Re: Birch Tar Challenge

    Hey Julian,

    that's right, adding it to the birch or cade oil.



    Yes, distilled or deionised water. If you're not experienced with handling corrosive chemicals, then I'd recommend that you...
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    Re: Birch Tar Challenge

    Double post.
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    Re: Birch Tar Challenge

    You could consider alkali washing the birch and cade oil with a weak sodium hydroxide solution, before siphoning off the oil. This removes the phenols such as guaiacol and syringol, which are largely...
  30. Re: Substantivity, vapor pressure and correlation of volatility

    Greetings ben,

    the volatility is directly related to the vapour pressure. The substantivity is only partly related to the vapour pressure, you also have to take into account the odour threshold,...
  31. Thread: incense cedar

    by Pears
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    Re: incense cedar

    Vincent, I got your PM. I haven't been feeling too well recently, so I'll reply in a few days time.
  32. Thread: incense cedar

    by Pears
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    Re: incense cedar

    Hi Vincent,

    Luigi didn't actually say that butane wouldn't work for fresh plant material. All he said was that it was risky - meaning that it's both highly flammable and volatile. Providing that...
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    Re: My Gift To You (Cool Water formula)

    AC stands for aroma compound, Jardin.
  34. Re: What year were allergens required to be listed in ingredients?

    That looks about right, David. As I previously said, you may have read earlier papers that merely discussed or proposed such changes.
  35. Re: What year were allergens required to be listed in ingredients?

    David, you may have read earlier documents that proposed such changes. The amendment that was responsible for the changes in labeling (Directive 2003/15/EC), was published on February 27, 2003.
    ...
  36. Thread: Best cedar - men

    by Pears
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    Re: Best cedar - men

    As Julian said. Why not buy both and see which you prefer? I'd also recommend trying Western red cedarwood and Hiba cedarwood oil, which are my personal favourites.
  37. Thread: Terranol

    by Pears
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    Re: Terranol

    This is a little additional information that I found on oakmoss phenol. It's a derivative found in oakmoss extracts.


    ...
  38. Thread: Terranol

    by Pears
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    Re: Terranol

    Funnily enough, I was reading this old thread just last night! I was looking into things that might be useful in an oakmoss accord. I'd also be interested to read your thoughts on the matter, Chris. ...
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    Re: EU confusion - Ambrette and Tonka bean

    I'm glad that you find it helpful, mumsy. Time is money, as they say.
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    Re: EU confusion - Ambrette and Tonka bean

    You're more than welcome, Clare. To further clarify, if you see any ingredients listed under Annex III which don't include any details in the rightmost column, entitled 'Maximum concentration in...
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    Re: EU confusion - Ambrette and Tonka bean

    Hi Clare,

    with regard to EU regulations, there are currently no restrictions on the use of tonka bean extract or coumarin, except that the latter is 1 of the 26 ingredients that must be listed in...
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    Re: Question about labdanum

    Vince, your first post gave me the impression that you didn't wish to use synthetics. If you're willing to try Ambrarome Absolute - which is partly synthetic - then you might as well also try...
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    Re: Question about labdanum

    Indeed, it's more animalic. Somewhat closer to a lower quality ambergris which hasn't been aged.
  44. Replies
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    Re: Question about labdanum

    Vince, the ethyl esters of labdanum extract (aka. Ambrarome Absolute) are sometimes used as an ambergris substitute. This may be what the perfumers were referring to. You can buy it in small...
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    Re: Iso Eugenol replacer

    Jamie, I'm curious to know why you wish to use isoeugenol when according to Paul, the GC/MS didn't reveal any in the Dianthine base that you wish to replicate.
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    Re: Iso Eugenol replacer

    I think that I'd probably keep the dihydroeugenol as the primary component, as well as the methyl diantilis, and then add a little eugenyl acetate or isoeugenyl acetate for increased longevity. I...
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    Re: Iso Eugenol replacer

    Jamie, are you going by the substantivities listed on Goodscents or by your own findings? The substantivities listed on Goodscents aren't always entirely accurate, although they might be in this...
  48. Re: Difficulty getting synthetic fragrance materials in Southern Africa

    Paul, it seems that we were writing at the same time. I was also referencing SAAFFI. Good suggestions.
  49. Re: Difficulty getting synthetic fragrance materials in Southern Africa

    You could try asking the manufacturers/wholesalers below if they supply any smaller companies which you could order from. Alternatively, you could arrange a group buy with other perfumers in your...
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    Re: Perfume Labelling Requirements

    Jamie, you may find it easier to put an asterisk or two next to each natural ingredient, including the allergens, and then put a footnote at the bottom stating, "**Ingredients of natural origin", or...
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    Re: Unusual fruit aromas

    Mumsy, another possible cause could be if you have n-amyl acetate rather than iso-amyl acetate. They smell similar but the latter is slightly less sharp and considerably more banana-like. David was...
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    Re: Unusual fruit aromas

    Certainly bonkers if you realise the costs and time involved........and then decide to continue regardless. lol
  53. Replies
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    Re: Unusual fruit aromas

    No worries, Paul. It's easy to misinterpret things on the internet. Indeed, you would need to be a little eccentric to want to rebuild something that stinks to high heaven, but then, many perfumers...
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    Re: Unusual fruit aromas

    Excellent idea, mumsy! I've tried them pouched in red wine with sugar and spices, and they're divine! The good thing is that it actually helps if the pears are a little on the firm side to begin...
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    Re: Unusual fruit aromas

    Perhaps you misunderstood, Paul. They aren't contained within durian fruit and therefore can't be used to rebuild durian - unless you're using the term quite loosely. Perhaps this would have been a...
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    Re: Unusual fruit aromas

    Mumsy, that's pretty comical! I'd be interested to know how the artificial flavouring and paste compare.

    Took, they're good old fashioned Conference pears. The tree is massive, so I'd only be able...
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    Re: Unusual fruit aromas

    You guys have inspired me to try some asafoetida. It doesn't appear to be available in the supermarkets, so I'll try the Indian grocery store. I sometimes like to make onion bhajis, and I've seen it...
  58. Re: Scented candle: paraffin, stearic and soy wax?

    Manshigo, for increased adhesion you'll need to make sure that it's the soft variety. Which country are you in, out of interest?
  59. Re: Scented candle: paraffin, stearic and soy wax?

    Great minds think alike, Manshigo! ;)

    In response to your last question, you may want to think about adding 5-10% microcrystalline soft wax, as it's relatively tacky and increases adherence to the...
  60. Re: Scented candle: paraffin, stearic and soy wax?

    Hey Manshigo, you may find this guide useful:

    http://www.naturesgardencandles.com/blog/category/sink-holes-candles/
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    Re: Rose de Mai Infusion help!

    Hey Jamie, seeing how you're still waiting for a reply, I'll answer as best I can. The yield of the absolute from the concrete is typically around 50-65%. It has been reported that the yield from the...
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    Re: Unusual fruit aromas

    I'm glad that you found it useful, Took.

    Indeed, pears are in season, but the parakeets ate most of mine before they were ready. I might put up some bird netting next year. You can't beat a...
  63. Replies
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    Re: Unusual fruit aromas

    Hey Took, as previously mentioned, sulfur compounds contribute to the unusual character of many fruits. You may find it useful to read the section on Fruit Flavors, in pages 10 to 14 of the paper...
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    Re: Recommendation needed: filters

    Some interesting findings, Took. I can't say that I've paid much attention to the pH of the filtrate from coffee filter papers. However, wood pulp naturally contains carboxylic acids, which might...
  65. Thread: Smoke / Tar

    by Pears
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    Re: Smoke / Tar

    Good suggestions Chris. Research that I did some time ago indicated that guaiacol and syringol are produced from the pyrolysis of lignin in wood and other plant materials. Interestingly though,...
  66. Replies
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    Re: Recommendation needed: filters

    Whatman #1 (11 μm) are usually sufficient for this purpose. As Paul said, coffee filter papers will also work, although make sure that they're the plain variety without added flavour pores. You...
  67. Re: Basic (and dull!) technical question about carrier oils / diluents

    Hi Snowbunting, jojoba can be used to dilute pure essential oils and absolutes, and then used as an oil based perfume. However, as others have mentioned, it isn't a good idea to mix it with alcohol...
  68. Thread: Smoke / Tar

    by Pears
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    Re: Smoke / Tar

    Some good suggestions so far.

    The plan to include thyme was well thought through, HRLQN. In addition to the thyme, I would recommed adding a somewhat smaller quantity of clove or eugenol. Both...
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    Re: The Specific gravity of each element

    That pretty much sums it up. Nicely put, Alysoun.
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    Re: The Specific gravity of each element

    Perhaps the OP meant that they don't have precision scales. In which case, they can use a graduated pipette to measure out the required amount, based on the specific gravity. If that were their...
  71. Re: Anyone know of Canadian suppliers of hard to find stuff like Ambrette seed, Oud, etc?

    Sunrise Botanics - in Toronto - sell ambrette absolute, black pepper oil, mimosa absolute, cassie absolute and tonka beans. They currently offer a flat rate of $5 for shipping within Canada and the...
  72. Re: Anyone know of Canadian suppliers of hard to find stuff like Ambrette seed, Oud, etc?

    Botanic Planet Canada sell ambrette seed absolute and black (not pink) pepper essential oil. They also sell tonka beans by the lb but that would make a lot of tincture. They don't sell mimosa...
  73. Replies
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    Re: Watery Green Base Notes...?

    Paul, have you considered using a little oak moss absolute? It might be more on the woody side but it certainly has a damp aspect that may fit in with your watery theme. Although, perhaps the...
  74. Replies
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    Re: Vintage Bases - Sharing Good News

    I admire your enthusiasm, Jamie. It sounds like you're on to a real winner! From what I've read, L'Origan contained vanillin and coumarin; so in regard to your other thread, it might be best to leave...
  75. Replies
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    Re: Vanilla tincture - help

    Jamie, I've noticed that the pages to which I referred in 'Vanilla', are temporarily unavailable. The pages displayed in the free preview constantly change, so you may wish to try again at a later...
  76. Replies
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    Re: Vanilla tincture - help

    Hey Jamie, I think that you'll find that it's the other way around. Tahitian vanilla has more of a heliotrope-like aroma, while Bourbon vanilla has more of a classic vanilla aroma. It's largely due...
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    Re: Honey accord help

    I found cassia bark oil to have a strong note of honey, so you may wish to add a little of that. Cassia or cinnamon are often added to foods that contain honey, such as breakfast cereals, snacks,...
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    Re: Honey accord help

    Chris, I had also considered mentioning honey water. It's good to see someone taking an interest in the old formulas.

    Jamie, you may also find it useful to know that it's contents were...
  79. Replies
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    Re: Brandy in Perfume?

    Some of the oldest fragrances contained brandy; Eau de Hongrie, Eau de Mélisse des Carmes, Aqua Mellis, etc. Cognac oil (from wine lees) has been used in fragrances since the 19th century but it's...
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    Re: Musk Xylene (xylol) first impressions

    I seem to remember you saying that musk ambrette was your preferred choice (see below). Perhaps you were not talking about your own preferred choice above:
    ...
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    Re: Chronology of fragrance chemicals?

    Nice find, Alysoun.

    Jfrater, you may find this complementary:



    (for some reason, it won't allow me to maintain a gap between the dates and the descriptions).
    ...
  82. Re: Can Benzyl Acetate be used to build a pear aroma?

    I'm sure that your suggestions were taken on board, David. I cannot recommend Poirenate to Tomolo without having first tested it. Like everyone else, I was informing him of the materials that I have...
  83. Re: Can Benzyl Acetate be used to build a pear aroma?

    Of the compounds that I have tested, ethyl 2,4-decadienoate has the most realistic pear aroma, closely followed by cis-3-hexenyl caproate. The former of the two is quite expensive, however. The...
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    Headspace testing services?

    Hi, I'd be interested to know if any of you have used, or know of any companies that provide competitively priced headspace analysis. I'm particularly interested in dynamic headspace analysis. What...
  85. Replies
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    Re: Extracting the fragrance from old beeswax?

    It may be worth placing the tincture in the freezer for 48-72 hours, before filtering through a chilled filter and funnel. However, it's better to allow the solution to gradually cool first at room...
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    Re: Looking for Good Orange Blossom Fragrance Oil

    You must have been writing at the same time as me, Zemlya. ;)
  87. Replies
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    Re: Looking for Good Orange Blossom Fragrance Oil

    You may be thinking of methyl anthranilate. It's available from Creatingperfume.
  88. Thread: Top note Musks

    by Pears
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    928

    Re: Top note Musks

    I believe that Helvetolide and Applelide have notable top notes, but I have yet to try them.
  89. Re: Piperonal (Heliotropin) in Perfumer and Flavorist

    Some additional information which you may find interesting:

    1869 - Discovery of heliotropin
    1871 - Structure of heliotropin determined
    1890 - Synthesis of heliotropin from saffrole
    ...
  90. Replies
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    Re: Dorinia SA E - how did they do it?

    Chamomile would help to lend an apple-like note, which I detect in Dorinia SA.

    Pears
  91. Thread: tincture Benzoin

    by Pears
    Replies
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    Re: tincture Benzoin

    You're more than welcome guys. Just a couple of additional points: I suspect that they would have used ceramic bottles rather than glass when placing them in the Sun, to protect the ingredients from...
  92. Thread: tincture Benzoin

    by Pears
    Replies
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    Re: tincture Benzoin

    It took me a while to write out but here are some old recipes for Lait Virginal and Eau d' Ange. I've converted the old French measures into modern equivalents for you. The Lait Virginal recipes...
  93. Thread: tincture Benzoin

    by Pears
    Replies
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    Re: tincture Benzoin

    Nemenator, you may like to read Carl Deite's instructions regarding the tincturing of benzoin:
    ...
  94. Thread: tincture Benzoin

    by Pears
    Replies
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    1,024

    Re: tincture Benzoin

    Lait virginal didn't usually contain rose water, David. It typically contained esprit de vin (grape alcohol), eau de vie (brandy), benzoin, storax, cloves, cinnamon, nutmeg, musk and ambergris. Eau...
  95. Thread: tincture Benzoin

    by Pears
    Replies
    11
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    1,024

    Re: tincture Benzoin

    Benzoin isn't usually distilled to produce an EO. What some companies refer to as benzoin EO is actually an extract containing a solvent to make it pourable, such as benzyl benzoate, benzyl alcohol,...
  96. Thread: Nirvanolide

    by Pears
    Replies
    6
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    1,040

    Re: Nirvanolide

    It's apparently similar in aroma to Musk Ketone and Muscenone, so you could try those instead. See page 161 below:
    ...
  97. Replies
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    Amber Accords: Siam or Sumatra Benzoin?

    Does anyone know which of the two is most typically used for classic amber accords? Thanks.

    Pears
  98. Replies
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    Re: Cinnamon (bark) oil repleacer

    Sigma Aldrich sell it for £40 (€56) per kilo, shipped from Germany. However, they only deal with companies, not private individuals.
    ...
  99. Replies
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    Re: Cinnamon (bark) oil repleacer

    If you're in the US then try Crafter's Choice Cinnamon Fragrance Oil. It contains 40-50% methyl cinnamaldehyde and only 1-2% cinnamal (cinnamaldehyde):
    ...
  100. Replies
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    Re: Suggested filtering methods

    Have you been reading Poucher, Alysoun? He sometimes used this term, which I believe simply meant to filter the solution until it was bright. To quote from his book:

    "Elemi is useful as a fixative...
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