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  1. Replies
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    Re: Search recipes or formula of disigner

    maybe it is the civet your using Bill?

    2% civet tincture is very sweet and floral, no barnyard....
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    Re: Search recipes or formula of disigner

    this was my last batch;


    bugouate - bergamont - 60 6 * - sicilian
    citron - lemon - 3.0 .3 * - cold pressed italian
    lavande - lavendar - 17.0 1.7 * - 40/42 france
    B. d. R. - bois de...
  3. Replies
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    Re: Search recipes or formula of disigner

    mumsy,

    did you use oak moss, or tree moss abs,

    I made a batch using some old pine tree moss and a really good opoponax resinoid, checking today
    I get the same powder as my 1950's version.

    I...
  4. Replies
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    Re: Search recipes or formula of disigner

    mumsy,
    this is what i think perhaps;

    60 - Bergamot
    03 - Lemon
    17 - Lavender
    25 - B d R (not sure what this is) = bois de rose = rosewood
    05 - Coriander
    03 - Neroli petals
    01 - Mint or...
  5. Replies
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    Re: Search recipes or formula of disigner

    Bill,

    Jicky was known for it's high dose of civet....
    Shocking used even a higher dose years later
  6. Replies
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    Re: Search recipes or formula of disigner

    Todd,
    it seems it could be Jean Carles, it is also interesting he did Shocking in 1937, which was another perfume with a high dose of civet....
    the right side also mentions formula by Henry Robert,...
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    Re: Classic Fougere Proportions?

    David,

    did you like brut back when it first came out, that was my goto fragrance in 1966 and 67
  8. Replies
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    Re: When a formulation calls for "resinoid"...

    maceration of the tears in sandalwood oil works very well, no stickiness
  9. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    Happy perfuming, Irina !!
  10. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    bill,

    does the percent matter?

    his statement " ...the molecule that makes up ambrofix"
    to me this reads as;
    ambrofix is one molecule and it is the same as the molecule found in ambergris
    ...
  11. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    interesting Bill,

    chris made this statement
    "However what I can say is that natural ambergris,
    even of very high quality, does not contain more than about 2% of the
    molecule that makes up...
  12. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    well chris if enantiomerically pure (-)-ambrox is irrelevant, then I have really nothing more to say
  13. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    so chris,

    do you have any information that would suggest ambrofix is enantiomerically pure (-)-ambrox ?
  14. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    interchangeable in terms of scent profile, Trufflehunter
    if so, then not to my nose, I prefer cetalox, of course I suppose it also depends on the fragrance type....

    to me ambroxan is a bit too...
  15. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    Trufflehunter, I found cetalox quite nice as well, maybe 6 years ago I also got some cetalox Laevo from vigon that was even nicer
  16. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    it is not, Chris, look at this
    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/rw1016071.html
    that is ambroxan, aka ambrofix, now look at the molecule

    then compare that molecule to ambroxide aka ambrox...
  17. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    yes, it is Pears,
    Ambroxan however is a trade / brand name and it is not identical to (-)-ambrox / (-)-Ambroxide
    as far as I know.
  18. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    that was a typo, your post mentioned ambrofix
    my post should have read ambrofix is not found in ambergris, of course ambroxan is not as well.
    the molecule in ambergris is (-)-ambrox aka...
  19. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    don't know if this helps you with your formula Pears,
    but here is a GC/MS of an aged ambergris tincture

    32128
  20. Re: Ambrofix versus Ambergris, equivalent strengths?

    natural ambergris does not contain any ambroxan.
  21. Re: Smelly game....... then smelly swaps (For after the blind sniff game)

    if you have never smelled the perfume, how could one begin to create a perfume that will be nearest to the real thing?
  22. Re: What The Hell Makes Joop! Homme So Powerful?

    there is also;

    eugenol
    hydroxycitronellal

    two enhancers - modifiers
    a good bit of lyral
    farnesol
  23. Replies
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    Re: When a formulation calls for "resinoid"...

    David,

    you are refering to Benzyl Benzoate or Benzyl Alcohol as a solvent when working with frankincense resinoid
    rather than Benzyl Benzoate or Benzyl Alcohol used as a solvent to produce...
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    Re: When a formulation calls for "resinoid"...

    good question Irina,

    there is little info to find, I would certainly think there is a very tiny amount of hexane or the other hydro-carbon solvent remaining
    albeit trace amounts as most absolutes...
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    Re: When a formulation calls for "resinoid"...

    hi Irina,

    am thinking the MPG was added as a carrier, frankincense resinoid, and the like are not pourable.

    as too the exact solvent, I suppose it would depend on who / where is is made.
    but I...
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    Re: When a formulation calls for "resinoid"...

    Irina,

    resinoids are essentially concretes, hydrocarbon solvents are used, hexane, petroleum ether....

    there are also washed resinoids, which are ethanol washed products of the above first...
  27. Re: Oilahuasca & Serotonin From Nature & Lucid Dreams

    David, you made me smile today!
  28. Re: Oilahuasca & Serotonin From Nature & Lucid Dreams

    am I just overly dense today ?? what does any of this have to do with perfumery?
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    Re: German GC page, Is this of any use to us?

    hey Paul,
    just a thought before you buy a GC/MS, maybe write/email Dr.Pappas, he might have one or could get one for you?
    he is usually very helpful to perfumers
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    Re: German GC page, Is this of any use to us?

    I think your right Bill
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    Re: German GC page, Is this of any use to us?

    Paul,

    that is not a GC/MS, that is a result from a Thin-layer chromatography test.
  32. Re: Is THIS Ambergris? (Old Fritzsche Brothers vial)

    cheers,

    well, yes, ambergris absolute is like a hard hard wax, or if this was the resinoid, it would have been
    extremely thick, but pourable when warmed as the resinoid has a small amount of...
  33. Re: Is THIS Ambergris? (Old Fritzsche Brothers vial)

    mumsy,

    I believe this is the real deal, if it was the 'Artificial' product, they always labeled it with Artificial, printed on the label.

    also this was not a tincture, this was ambergris grey...
  34. Re: Storage of liquid soap or lotion scented with essential oils

    David, you are absolutley right, I was not suggesting the contrary.
  35. Re: Storage of liquid soap or lotion scented with essential oils

    according to Dr. Pappas, a PHD chemist, it makes little difference.
    https://www.facebook.com/notes/essential-oil-university/colored-glass-bottles-and-essential-oils/10152309479793083
  36. Re: Storage of liquid soap or lotion scented with essential oils

    ah, that is what I must be doing wrong, I store all of my materials out in the sun
  37. Re: Storage of liquid soap or lotion scented with essential oils

    most essential oils are photochemically inactive in the visible light spectrum, so clear bottles are fine
  38. Re: A material/fabric that absorbs aroma and then smells of that aroma (for an hour at least)

    Condiment Junkie,
    it certainly sounds like an interesting and fun experiment.
  39. Re: A material/fabric that absorbs aroma and then smells of that aroma (for an hour at least)

    Condiment Junkie, I do not know for sure, but it is not too high
    my friend of mine who is a bow hunter wears an activated carbon fabric camo suit, all he does
    is put in in the clothes dryer for 10...
  40. Re: A material/fabric that absorbs aroma and then smells of that aroma (for an hour at least)

    well activated carbon fabric would work, the fabric will absorb the odor until it reaches its capacity
    and will hold on to it as you mentioned, then to release that captured odor, you could simply...
  41. Re: alcohol not pulling all of the essence from oil

    good explanation Bill,

    especially on the point of risking the dilution of the product in Bricklaya's case.
    unless he has a way of concentrating the final product ?
  42. Re: alcohol not pulling all of the essence from oil

    other than the cost of olive oil, there is certainly nothing wrong with using that,
    I think my choice would be sunflower oil, or another mild lighter fixed oil.
    Maybe try a few different maceration...
  43. Re: alcohol not pulling all of the essence from oil

    Bricklaya,

    saturation would not apply when both materials are of the same state of matter, in this case both liquids.
    you can add 1ml of lemon oil to 999ml of aqueous ethanol and you can add 1ml...
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    Re: How to make synthetic perfume

    Paul,

    BA = Benzyl Alcohol, I am thinking
  45. Re: A 13thC Apothecarys delight for those who can read Arabic

    indeed mumsy, I will certanily post here what he finds
  46. Re: A 13thC Apothecarys delight for those who can read Arabic

    pretty cool mumsy, I sent the Arabic pdf to a friend who reads and writes in Arabic

    thanks
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    Re: Grojsman Accord

    Trufflehunter,

    well there are a number of ambergris odor profiles / notes,

    Gunther Ohloff describes the relevant odor qualities of ambergris as;

    1. Earthy
    2. Marine
    3. Tobacco
    4. Woody
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    Re: Grojsman Accord

    Trufflehunter,
    real ambergris tincture will never provide an amber note....that is not what real ambergris is used for.
    as far as how much cetalox to use, it would depend on how much of it's note...
  49. Re: Determining the correct amount of ambergris tincture

    your right Bill,

    also consider 1944 was during the war, who could afford that expensive of a perfume....

    as a comparison,

    civet tincture was 67.00 per kilo
    musk tincture, tonquin grain was...
  50. Re: Determining the correct amount of ambergris tincture

    indeed, Bill,
    but then in the 1000 gram example, only 3 grams of ambergris is used...
    that would be would be 75.00 of ambergris at todays retail price, or 36.00 of ambergris wholesale.
    so 7.50 per...
  51. Re: Determining the correct amount of ambergris tincture

    when ambergris tincture was commonly used [years ago], the rule of thumb was 73.5 percent of ambergris tincture
    of the fragrance concentration, so if one would have made a 20% EDP, then for every 20...
  52. Re: Tincturing strength questions. Enlightenment needed please.

    bill,

    there should be no need to use benzyl benzoate or anything other than aqueous ethanol when tincturing raw civet paste.
    having said that, tincturing civet paste is not as easy as it might...
  53. Re: Tincturing strength questions. Enlightenment needed please.

    julian35,

    i am not sure when or why actual percent figures got assigned to tinctures,
    as at best they are ball park numbers, as an example with ambergris,
    in the past, 30 grams of ambergris...
  54. Re: Classic perfumery accords and other basic exercises

    actually the yield is quite high for ambergris absolute, over 80% assuming one is not using soft black ambergris.
    also ambergris absolute is solid, not a viscous clear fluid.
  55. Re: Classic perfumery accords and other basic exercises

    if it is the clear so called ambergris CO2, it is not real
  56. Thread: Amber gris

    by luigi_g
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    Re: Amber gris

    the bright yellow inside doesn't indicate ambergris, your piece is almost the same as this, which was palm oil.
    http://naturcymru.blogspot.com/2012/12/sorry-but-no-it-is-not-ambergris.html
  57. Thread: Schiff's bases

    by luigi_g
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    Re: Schiff's bases

    Bill,
    ketones react with an amine and will form an imine/schiff base.
  58. Thread: Schiff's bases

    by luigi_g
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    Re: Schiff's bases

    Bill
    I thought acetals are stable in basic conditions,
    aqueous acid / hydrolysis is one of the deprotection methods.
  59. Thread: Mellis Accord

    by luigi_g
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    Re: Mellis Accord

    Pears, served shaken or stirred :)
  60. Re: Anyone ever used Tobacco Absolute from Perfumer's Apprentice? I have a question.

    the wayback machine is a great tool for looking up old products / prices

    here is the PA page from Nov 1, 2011 that does indeed list the tobacco abs as nicotine free...
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    Re: Small note on natural perfumes

    nemenator, for the record, sandalwood essential oil does not contain sandalore, sandalore is a man made synthetic / aroma chemical
  62. Re: So I'm thinking of doing a Scent Analysis...

    Have you been to the new Spectrix website Paul?

    don't know when the change was made, but the fragrance GC now is 400.00 / 550.00, no longer the 250.00
  63. Re: Benzoin question, fenugreek curiosity, and the wild wonderful world of ionones

    great stuff Pears, thanks

    am not sure about their Novoviol either.....
  64. Re: Please help identify this GCMS report ingredient

    This would be a guess as the other constituents are not listed,
    also there are more than 3 in that list,

    one of them is an anti-oxidant
    one is beta irone
    and the others I am thinking are from...
  65. Re: Benzoin question, fenugreek curiosity, and the wild wonderful world of ionones

    indeed, it was Schimmel & Co, Pears.

    i have the 1944 Fritzsche brothers, Perfumers Handbook and Catalog, that also includes the price list, that is where i
    scanned the ionone prices from.
    ...
  66. Re: Benzoin question, fenugreek curiosity, and the wild wonderful world of ionones

    here is the ionone prices as of Jan, 1944

    28988
  67. Replies
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    Re: Reed diffuser carrier

    don't know if this helps, but here is a source in the UK, they list 1.5KG...
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    Re: British Society of Perfumers

    Congrats Chris
  69. Replies
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    Re: Can you use too many naturals?

    I agree with you David,

    I wonder if over the years the accord order somehow was misinterpreted as mixing materials in order,
    e.g. start with the base accord, then the heart, etc... ??
  70. Replies
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    Re: Can you use too many naturals?

    This paper should explain a number of the questions raised in this thread;
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19456979

    although there is not any mention of compounding order, however one could...
  71. Replies
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    Re: Can you use too many naturals?

    fixation is the result of the changed vapor pressure of the solution which changes the total evaporation rate, physics actually, not
    organic chemistry.
  72. Re: Another threat about how to get irone alpha in the us

    You could try requesting a sample from Vigon
    http://www.vigon.com/ironealpha.aspx
  73. Replies
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    Re: Nature identical compounds

    thomash,
    with regard to the legislative part, that was taken out of context to some degree, while it is true these approved processes
    create materials that can be used in products that are...
  74. Replies
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    Re: Nature identical compounds

    would I be incorrect to assume, that you would regard the product of such a process to be a synthetic substance, rather than a natural substance?



    This technology and production is ongoing...
  75. Replies
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    Re: Nature identical compounds

    ok, np, thank you
  76. Replies
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    Re: Nature identical compounds

    hi thomash,

    you mentioned fermentation produced, wondering what your take is on that.

    to me fermentation produced, and some of the other approved natural processes are just as confusing or more...
  77. Thread: Limonene

    by luigi_g
    Replies
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    646

    Re: Limonene

    cas 138-86-3 is actually found in a lot of naturals, it could be basil, or bergamont, both have high amounts
    or any of the others

    what does the opening of the colonge smell like?
    is there any...
  78. Replies
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    Re: Nature identical compounds

    well,
    according to a PHD chemist at Firmenich in 1958, methyl dihydrojasmonate was discovered in jasmine.
    ...
  79. Replies
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    Re: Nature identical compounds

    nemenator, I am a bit confused,
    you wrote, " I would prefer to use for example synthetic Methyl Jasmonate instead of its hydrogenated form methyl dihydrojasmonate ie Hedione, as it very much exists...
  80. Replies
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    Re: Nature identical compounds

    "They are not in the least relevant to the point, which was to aid understanding the febrile quality of the statement that a given material is 'not found in nature'"

    excuse me?, you asked me for...
  81. Replies
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    Re: Nature identical compounds

    yes, there is data on this actually published by Firmenich
    "Exaltolide was first synthesized in 1928 via the oxidation of Exaltone"...
  82. Replies
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    Re: Nature identical compounds

    that maybe the case if one assumes firmenich had synthesized this prior to the discovery, as you mentioned
    the trademark is post-date discovery in many trademarks, however, Ruzicka was the first to...
  83. Replies
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    Re: Nature identical compounds

    actually it was found in nature many years ago and prior to the synthetic release,
    in some circles, Ruzicka is credited for the discovery in 1928 in angelica root, while
    others state it was found...
  84. Re: Infusing Ambergris powder in Sandalwood oil

    musk grains do not dissolve
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    Re: Two alcohol related questions...

    Hi MissVanilla,

    as David correctly mentioned, your description is not a characteristic of PET.
    sadly that description is nothing more than an urban legend, completely inaccurate and as many of...
  86. Re: Is this Ambergris? Can you please help me identify this, found on beach in San Diego.

    put the piece in a bowl of water, it will float if it is ambergris, but as hard as you describe it is, it doesn't sound
    like it is a piece of ambergris.
  87. Replies
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    Re: Good MUSK combos?

    well it is one thing to try to recreate the scent, but it is also very inaccurate to state that muscenone is found in deer musk, that is
    not the case and misleading.

    and per Firmenich, and i...
  88. Thread: Musk

    by luigi_g
    Replies
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    Re: Musk

    islearom,

    during the rut, the deer will deposit a miniscule amount of his grains during urination, however that amount
    would be akin to one throwing a few salt grains in the air.
    during the rut...
  89. Replies
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    Re: Good MUSK combos?

    thank you Pears,

    yes, your right, they found Muscenone, the intermediate back in 1971....
    that is a great book btw if you do not own a copy.
    but i thought getting into intermediates, side...
  90. Replies
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    Re: Good MUSK combos?

    forgot to answer this part DrSmellThis, sorry

    so l-muscone is listed here as:
    http://www.takasago.com/cgi-bin/detail.cgi?key=C013200
    Chemical Name:
    (R)-3-Methylcyclopentadecanone
    Synonym...
  91. Replies
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    Re: Good MUSK combos?

    i understand DrSmellThis,

    it could be that the statement made by Arcadi was taken out of context, or misunderstood ??

    don't know the source or date of that statement,

    but here is an...
  92. Replies
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    Re: Good MUSK combos?

    well i don't know what to say on that, DrSmellThis, other than muscenone is not found in nature....and it is certainly not in deer musk.

    if i am not mistaken, you can not get a trademark on any...
  93. Replies
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    Re: Good MUSK combos?

    well muscenone is a molecule made by Firmenich and it is trademarked, it is not found in nature
  94. Replies
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    Re: Good MUSK combos?

    "my advice was about recreating the smell: we are perfumers here so that's what counts"
    of course, but my point was, in nature the optically pure muscone is formed, not racemic.

    "according to...
  95. Replies
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    Re: Good MUSK combos?

    Hi Chris,

    dl-muscone and muscenone are not found in deer musk
    ll-muscone is the only macrocyclic musk compund in deer musk
    muscenone is not found in nature, it is man made
  96. Replies
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    Re: Good MUSK combos?

    yes, that sounds correct, Pears, don't know what i was thinking but i did 2% of 0.065, sorry about that.
  97. Replies
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    Re: Good MUSK combos?

    hey Pears,

    deer musk would only have < 2% muscone, by weight, the macrocylic musk component.
    there are a number of other constituents that contribute to the odor profile
    trace amounts of...
  98. Thread: Cinnemaldehyde

    by luigi_g
    Replies
    15
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    539

    Re: Cinnemaldehyde

    @pears, you typed fater than I :_)
  99. Thread: Cinnemaldehyde

    by luigi_g
    Replies
    15
    Views
    539

    Re: Cinnemaldehyde

    typically is is synthesized from benzoyl chloride and cinnamyl alcohol
  100. Thread: Cinnemaldehyde

    by luigi_g
    Replies
    15
    Views
    539

    Re: Cinnemaldehyde

    so assuming you have a lab with decent steam distillation setup, and have the expertise to correctly steam distill
    materials you might get 9 grams per pound of cinnamon, or you could simply buy an...
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