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  1. Re: "Chill-filtering": is this the correct term in perfumery?

    There is one other possibility as to why the word glaçage was originally used. During cooling, any excess waxes begin to crystallize, often causing a cloudy or frosty appearance in the solution. If...
  2. Re: "Chill-filtering": is this the correct term in perfumery?

    Indeed, cold filtration is another term that is widely used in industry. Like winterization and dewaxing, it's not a literal translation of the word Glaçage, but perhaps a literal translation isn't...
  3. Re: "Chill-filtering": is this the correct term in perfumery?

    Glaçage translates as glazing or icing (frosting in US English) and it was often used in the context of glazing cakes, vases, glass, paper, etc. However, given the context of the book, a more literal...
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    Re: Were can I find this!

    Adam Sherman patented a similar design for use in multi-compartment containers:

    https://www.google.si/patents/US6283316


    You could try contacting him to see if he knows of any manufacturers...
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    Re: Citrus Persistence

    You're welcome, Leonard. Incidentally, I'm not sure why I said "extend" when I meant "stretch". Probably a subconscious thing. Basically, Verymoss can be used to stretch oakmoss absolute, making it...
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    Re: Citrus Persistence

    Nice looking formula, Jeroen. Obviously he could replace the bergamot and grapefruit with lime, if he wanted.

    Leo, the olibanum in the formula is otherwise known as frankincense so no need to buy...
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    Re: Citrus Persistence

    That is the nature of the beast, unfortunately. Folded citrus oils tend to last slightly longer. Nitriles, such as Lemonile, tend to last much longer but they are best used in moderation. Fixatives...
  8. Re: Any heard of (4E,9Z)-13-methyloxacyclopentadeca-4,9-dien-2-one ?

    Givaudan are the holders.

    Your best bet would be to use similar lactones such as ambrettolide and ethylene brassylate, with a little methyl jasmonate for the jasmin and green notes.
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    Re: Where can I find a strong oud? (uk)

    Genuine oud is very expensive, £25 might buy you about 1 ml of the pure material. Many of the so-called oud fragrances these days contain synthetic oud. Nothing quite compares to the natural material...
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    Re: The Smell of 2-stroke

    Try a combination of m-cresol, guaiacol, thymol, eugenol, 6-methyl quinoline, indole, styrax oil, juniper berry oil, patchouli oil and a trace of birch tar.
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    Re: Watermelon accord

    See the the odor descriptors for watermelon, below:

    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/odor/watermelon.html
  12. Re: Question about a cooling sensation from two well known niche scents

    If you want the cooling sensation of menthol but without the strong smell, then you may find the article below of interest.

    http://www.leffingwell.com/cooler_than_menthol.htm
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    It doesn't really matter if you've used it as a fragrance, you negatively reviewed it's odour. I forgot to include guaiacol and cade, you negatively reviewed them also. The former is a methoxy phenol...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    The alkyl phenols were discussed in the context of using them in bases and accords. I'm not sure where you got the idea of using them neat.

    Of course it's odour "texture" is different from...
  15. Thread: Ashes accord?

    by Pears
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    Re: Ashes accord?

    Ah, I thought that it was you who mentioned cigarettes but it was in fact Palmolive.

    For a wood ash accord you can use crude cade oil or crude birch tar. However, kiln burned pine tar has more of...
  16. Thread: Ashes accord?

    by Pears
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    Re: Ashes accord?

    Indeed, styrax is sometimes added to tobacco as a flavouring. It is hard to find good styrax resinoid these days (much of it has been stripped of it's oil), so either the essential oil or the...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    Both are strong smelling but considerably less so than p-cresol, which is widely used in the fragrance industry. The strength shouldn't really be an issue for experienced perfumers.

    For ethical...
  18. Re: Which is your favorite site to buy undiluted fragrance oils for DIY fragrance?

    Okay, try the following then:

    creatingperfume.com
    perfumersapprentice.com
    perfumersupplyhouse.com
  19. Re: Which is your favorite site to buy undiluted fragrance oils for DIY fragrance?

    Most perfumers use bases or replacers, which are similar to fragrance oils but targeted more at the professional. What is your location?
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    Re: Dorinia SA E - how did they do it?

    Thank you, J. I've read the thread before but again I appreciate the consideration.

    Wardia is now available from Pell Wall, for those seeking an EU supplier.

    With regard to Dorinia, while it...
  21. Thread: Quinolines

    by Pears
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    Re: Quinolines

    6-methyl quinoline has an animalic note that is somewhat similar to the meta and para substituted alkyl phenols - horsy, fecal and offal-like. It also has notes of tobacco and tonka, although it's...
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    Re: Dorinia SA E - how did they do it?

    Thanks, Rob. I was aware that PW sell Wardia but I appreciate your consideration

    Liaison Carbone sell damascenone. It smells less fruity than beta damascone and it is considerably more...
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    Re: Good Scents down??

    Yes, their site has only been working intermittently for the last couple of days. It is probably down for maintenance work. I also use google cache during such times. None of the tabs work but you...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    Dear Serg, the longevity for each will be different but you would need to test them side by side over the course of a few days to know how they compare. p-Cresol has a substantivity of about 400...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    Yes, that's not a bad theory. 2,4-dichlorophenol is also used in the synthesis of 2,4-DB.

    p-chloro-o-cresol is another likely candidate, as it is used in the synthesis of another commonly used...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    A mixture of phenol and tricresol smells predominately of p-cresol, as it has a much lower odour threshold than the other components. That is why it smells so animalic, the p-cresol, with a little...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    4-ethyl phenol smells quite different to phenol, it is much more animalic. It is one of the main contributors to the smell of castoreum.



    2,6-xylenol is somewhat smoky but it is much more...
  28. Thread: Honey Notes

    by Pears
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    Re: Honey Notes

    Cassia oil has a very strong and persistent smell of honey. Far more so than true cinnamon and Indonesian cinnamon.
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    Re: Has Proxisante folded?

    BLH-PIM and Diffusions Aromatiques are wholesalers but they do sell in amounts less than a kg. Requesting less than 100 g may be pushing your luck though, unless it's a really expensive material.
  30. Thread: Subway smell

    by Pears
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    Re: Subway smell

    If you decide to use sparklers then just make sure that they're the kind that are suitable for indoor use. They're often used at cocktail bars, birthday parties and weddings.
  31. Thread: Subway smell

    by Pears
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    Re: Subway smell

    For the smell of hot brake blocks and sparks, I guess you could light a sparkler every few minutes. Providing that you take adequate safety precautions, that is.
  32. Thread: Subway smell

    by Pears
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    Re: Subway smell

    I would imagine that hot brake blocks and rail grease contribute significantly to the smell. If your brief was only to scent the air, then I guess you could heat up some rail grease.
  33. Thread: Subway smell

    by Pears
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    Re: Subway smell

    3,4-xylenol is fine to use in fragrances, providing that the concentration in the finished product is deemed safe by your safety assessor. The NOAEL is 1.4 mg/kg/day but various endpoints need to be...
  34. Thread: Subway smell

    by Pears
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    Re: Subway smell

    As David said, it also contains pine needle oil, isopropyl alcohol, castor oil, soap and water.



    I wasn't actually recommending it for use in fragrances applied to the skin. Javiero mentioned...
  35. Thread: Subway smell

    by Pears
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    Re: Subway smell

    I've never used the Spanish underground, so I couldn't say which disinfectant they use. I'm just offering an alternative if the alkyl phenols aren't a match. Indeed, the chloroxylenol is responsible...
  36. Thread: Subway smell

    by Pears
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    Re: Subway smell

    Chloroxylenols are often used in place of alkyl phenols for disinfection purposes. Dettol contains 4.8% chloroxylenol so you can try that if it's readily available in your country.

    Geco has a...
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    Re: Distilling your own essential oils

    If the plant produces most of it's oleoresin in external glands (e.g. lavender, rosemary, thyme, etc.), then no it is not particularly helpful to grind the material. If most of the oleoresin is...
  38. Thread: Subway smell

    by Pears
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    Re: Subway smell

    Guaiacol and terrasol perhaps.
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    Re: What kind of cederwood is it?

    I would imagine that the majority of the lumber in LA comes from redwood, pine, fir and spruce.

    The wood of redwood it said to have a distinct odour while being worked. One source states that...
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    Re: Alcohol in Spain!

    The first ingredient is otherwise known as benzalkonium chloride. It has a faint almond or vinegar-like odour and a bitter taste. At 0.1% the odour should be very mild. However, there may be other...
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    Re: Alcohol in Spain!

    Altia Industrial may be able to supply you with trade specific denatured alcohol. See the section under "Lindrigt denaturerad etanol produkter":

    https://www.altiaindustrial.com/sv/produktsok
    ...
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    Re: Perfumery is done by weight.

    If the scales are graduated to say 0.01 g, then I wouldn't recommend weighing anything smaller than 0.02-0.05 g. Providing that the scales have been properly calibrated, that is. Even then, you...
  43. Thread: Alcohol smell

    by Pears
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    Re: Alcohol smell

    Yes, it's a good idea to compare the quality of the alcohol available to you. SDA 40 (US) and TSDA 1 (UK) are about as odourless as it gets in terms of denatured alcohol. You will need a permit or...
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    Re: Perfumery is done by weight.

    Volume is only really suitable for the early stages of testing, or if you only intend to use the fragrance for personal use.

    If you intend to use drops then I'd recommend that you read the...
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    Re: Perfumery is done by weight.

    Okay, I can't think of such a situation but if you or others find it useful then that is the main thing.
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    Re: Perfumery is done by weight.

    Paul, don't take this the wrong way but I'm a little surprised that you keep such a table. All that you need to do is take the desired concentration and subtract it from 100, every single time. No...
  47. Re: Reverse engineering Experts! What's this rose-like smell?

    Wardia is quite expensive, and while it could be in the fragrances that you mentioned it's unlikely to have been used in a cheap laundry soap. It could contain some of the components in Wardia,...
  48. Re: Reverse engineering Experts! What's this rose-like smell?

    As Renegade said, Dorinia is much more in your face with the damascone. The Givco smells fresher and has a note reminiscent of honeydew melon in the background.
  49. Re: Reverse engineering Experts! What's this rose-like smell?

    Both have a strong apple-like quality but as you alluded to, it's strongest in alpha damascone. Beta damascone has an additional blackcurrant note.
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    Re: Do you mix by weight or volume?

    If you're referring to the fact that the actual weight is often somewhere between the readings, then yes, that is one of the downsides to using digital scales for smaller amounts. This doesn't have...
  51. Re: Reverse engineering Experts! What's this rose-like smell?

    It could be beta damascone but he mentioned that it's not Dorinia, which happens to smell very strongly of beta damascone in it's opening. It could be one of the other damascones or simply be an...
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    Re: Do you mix by weight or volume?

    Indeed, mumsy, that's another method which works.

    Yet another method is to use volume to begin with and when you've found a formula that works, rather than using the densities to calculate the...
  53. Re: Reverse engineering Experts! What's this rose-like smell?

    I would second filousoth's point. Phenyl ethyl alcohol is commonly used in cheap laundry products as well as high end perfumes. It fits most of your descriptions but it lacks much in the way of a...
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    Re: Do you mix by weight or volume?

    Notice that I said "Providing that the scales weigh to the nearest 0.01 g, then I don't see an issue with using weight to begin with..."

    This was intended to mean that while less accurate scales...
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    Re: Do you mix by weight or volume?

    Providing that the scales weigh to the nearest 0.01 g, then I don't see an issue with using weight to begin with, as a standard size drop weighs considerably more than this. None the less, many...
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    Re: Do you mix by weight or volume?

    You're welcome, Palm. I should add one more thing. If you can't find the same model of dropper as you previously used for a formula, then it isn't the end of the World as providing that the same...
  57. Replies
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    Re: Do you mix by weight or volume?

    Hey Palm,

    you first need to know the density or specific gravity of each material. This can sometimes be found in the physical data section of the MSDS. If no data is given then you can consult a...
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    Re: Do you mix by weight or volume?

    Volume can be more practical during the experimental stage but once you've found a blend that works or wish to scale up production, it is customary to convert everything to weight. For ease of...
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    Re: First attempt was terrible, please help!

    As Marcus mentioned, patchouli and black pepper are very strong and need to be dosed carefully.

    It isn't a good idea to experiment with ml of pure materials to begin with, as it can be very...
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    Re: Sandela, which one do you prefer and why?

    Thank you for clarifying what you meant, David. If the character is also different then it's reasonable to assume that they have added other components.
  61. Replies
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    Re: Sandela, which one do you prefer and why?

    Thanks David. That's interesting, according to Leffingwell:

    "Various complex mixtures containing between 5-20% of the active stereoisomers have been sold under the tradenames of Sandela®...
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    Sandela, which one do you prefer and why?

    As I'm sure that many of you are aware, there is more than one material that goes by this name:

    CAS # 3407-42-9

    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/rw1006491.html

    CAS # 66068-84-6
    ...
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    Re: Perfume Formulas (found in Patent Applications)

    Is anyone else having difficulty visiting Good Scents? The connection just times out. Perhaps I have a bug.
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    Re: Kirk"s Castille Soap fragrance. Help!

    Some of the volatiles, such as the lactones, have good substantivity (lasting power), so the reason that the scent doesn't last is most likely because the concentration of volatiles is low to begin...
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    Re: What happens during maceration?

    Higher temperatures can increase the rate of reaction. Some perfumers therefore choose to store their fragrances at elevated temperatures for the first few weeks or months, before filtering and...
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    Re: Alternate of banned chemicals?

    Heliotropin is banned in it's pure form but I believe that it's allowed in most countries if it's sold as a dilution. The Heliotropin Replacer from Perfumers Apprentice is 50% heliotropin.
  67. Re: Ancient formula writings.... for laundry and rose balls ++

    Indeed, mumsy, it was certainly used in baking also:

    https://archive.org/stream/bakershandbook00schu#page/38/mode/2up/search/tragand


    Rhodium is another name for rosewood. The recipe...
  68. Re: Ancient formula writings.... for laundry and rose balls ++

    Nice find, Mumsy. I believe that it's 'gum tragand', which is another name for gum tragacanth. It was often used in wash balls as a binding agent but probably also had some cleansing properties. It...
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    Re: Female jasmine-thyme help?

    Okay, then it is probably a high phenol variety, unless it's lemon thyme. Standard red thyme oil will probably suffice. If you want the most complex and natural smelling, then you can go for thyme...
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    Re: Female jasmine-thyme help?

    Thyme grown at low altitudes (i.e. the majority) tends to be rich in phenols such as thymol and carvacrol, which are quite tenacious. I'd therefore describe it as more of a heart note. Thyme grown at...
  71. Re: Vodka Alcohol and Ethyl Alcohol are the same Alcohol?

    Vodka is often fractionally distilled like pure ethyl alcohol but not always. It is sometimes pot distilled to give it more flavour. It is also usually watered down to around 40-50% volume, to make...
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    Re: Kirk"s Castille Soap fragrance. Help!

    Did you try the suggestions in my last post? If not then I suggest that you do so and then report back. We can't really help you without having more to go on.
  73. Re: Please Help...suggest Flavor and Fragrance Formula books

    You're welcome, Flavi.

    I would also suggest that you use 'flavour' as a search term on Scribd, as many authors use the original English spelling as opposed to the Americanized variant....
  74. Re: Please Help...suggest Flavor and Fragrance Formula books

    I would suggest that you sign up to a free 30 day trial with Scribd and read through a few books, before deciding which ones to buy. Use search terms like perfume, perfumery and flavor:
    ...
  75. Re: Please Help...suggest Flavor and Fragrance Formula books

    Read from post #20 onwards.

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/373807-Links-to-perfumery-books?p=3065760&viewfull=1#post3065760
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    Re: Primo Leather ACs?

    A generous dose of m-cresol and a trace of birch tar, would be my suggestions. p-cresol can also be helpful but m-cresol should ideally be the main cresol used. Keep an eye out for 4-ethylphenol...
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    Re: Kirk"s Castille Soap fragrance. Help!

    Okay, then it may be the reformulated version described in the above reviews. I'd suggest that you try the glycerin version to see if it smells the same as the castile version. If so, then you can...
  78. Replies
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    Re: Kirk"s Castille Soap fragrance. Help!

    Not necessarily, as that is only the description given for their glycerin soap. What can you smell, citrus?
  79. Replies
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    Re: Kirk"s Castille Soap fragrance. Help!

    You were probably still writing when I posted my last installment, so you may want to check that out.

    The formula that you've given is for the liquid soap. The review above compares the scent of...
  80. Replies
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    Re: Kirk"s Castille Soap fragrance. Help!

    Another reviewer compares the scent to Ivory soap:



    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kirk-Natural-223809-Liquid-11951/dp/B000E7KVNU

    Lemongrass (and/or citronella) oil is said to be one of the key...
  81. Replies
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    Re: Kirk"s Castille Soap fragrance. Help!

    I have no idea if the fragrance has remained true to the original. They claim that it's the original but companies aren't always entirely truthful.

    One reviewer had this to say:


    ...
  82. Replies
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    Re: Kirk"s Castille Soap fragrance. Help!

    That I couldn't say. Whoever offers to assess the sample for you, if anyone. Where do you live? One thing's for sure, there were no synthetic aroma compounds that were in wide spread use in the soap...
  83. Replies
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    Re: Kirk"s Castille Soap fragrance. Help!

    If the formula has remained the same since 1839 then it will most likely contain crude coconut oil, as opposed to deodorized coconut oil. The former smells much more strongly of coconut. If the soap...
  84. Re: Advice in recreating the scent of American hot dogs & the scent of sunflowers

    Often they're just listed as "spices" or "spice extracts", so you may need to look at quite a few brands before you find any that list the individual spices. Spices and spice extracts often have a...
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    Re: Adulterated Benzoin?

    I would recommend that you avoid using water. My point was that the precipitation may have been caused by water to begin with. Tell us which ingredients that you added which caused the benzoin to...
  86. Re: Advice in recreating the scent of American hot dogs & the scent of sunflowers

    Anytime. I've taken a look at the ingredients of a few hot dog brands and the spices/extracts common to some of them are as follows: celery (seed), ginger, garlic, coriander (seed), nutmeg, mace,...
  87. Re: Advice in recreating the scent of American hot dogs & the scent of sunflowers

    For the smoke flavour you could use a trace of rectified birch tar. For the onions you could use onion oil, but you'd also need something for the caramelised effect such as furans, furanones and...
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    Re: What kind of cederwood is it?

    Yes, I have two samples from different suppliers. The fruity note is more of a middle note and the spicy and woody notes are base notes. The latter two last quite a long time on a scent strip, at...
  89. Replies
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    Re: What kind of cederwood is it?

    Anytime. Yes, it's botanical name is Thuja plicata. It is traditionally used by the Native Americans to make totem poles, among other things. It would be difficult not to like the smell of this wood,...
  90. Replies
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    Re: What kind of cederwood is it?

    Western red cedar wood smells more spicy, like cumin and nutmeg. It also has a top to middle note like lime or pineapple, but that would probably have dissipated in an old wardrobe. The wood often...
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    Re: Adulterated Benzoin?

    You would have to tell us what these other materials were and whether or not any solvents had been used. If any contained an appreciable amount of water then yes, precipitation would be likely.
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    Re: Need your opinion on this supplier?

    This is an old thread. Only theom needs an answer, although his question is rather vague.
  93. Thread: Oak moss

    by Pears
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    Re: Oak moss

    It sounds like you've had a lot of fun experimenting. I noticed that you said "soaking and drying". You may want to try it the other way around – first drying and then humidifying (see below):


    ...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    Anytime, perfumum.

    Civettine is a Firmenich trademark, which most likely refers to Civettictis civetta (African civet) or Viverra civettina (Malabar civet). Civet essential oil isn't commercially...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    Indeed, Serg. Unfortunately, it's use is restricted to 0.01% by the IFRA. If that isn't enough for your needs then you can also use 2-methoxy-4-ethylphenol (4-ethyl guaiacol), which has no...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    There may be another reason why certain oud fragrances possess a sandalwood note. To quote a recent Firmenich patent:

    "Typical perfuming co-ingredients commonly used in perfumery base having an...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    The description for the former certainly mentions sandalwood. The description for the latter mentions blonde woods, which might suggest the presence of a sandalwood accord. It also mentions leather,...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    Ah, I've just remembered that in the EU the Product Information File for each cosmetic product must contain the following:

    "Data concerning the impurities and traces in the raw materials and/or in...
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    Re: Low cost illusions of oud

    Penta sell m-cresol and all of the xylenols. They also sell 3-ethyl phenol although they don't list it on their site.

    Sigma sell m-cresol, 2,3-, 2,5- and 2,6-xylenol. Their 2,3-xylenol is listed...
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    2,382

    Re: Bubble Gum Fragrance

    Aldehyde C-20 smells exactly like the bubblegum that you used to get from the old slot machines outside the newsagents. Unfortunately, it's usually only used in the flavour industry so most fragrance...
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