Pour Homme, Pour Femme, who cares?

yeah gender marketing is basically to make it feel easier for the meatheads who are intimidated by buying fragrances to begin with. For people who think its poncey even to sniff (And judge for themselves) before buying, I say the easiest thing is simply to bottle everything in the Full Choke flacon. Problem solved. Meatheads come in, come out, no muss, no fuss.

Oh and BTW, my girlfriend wears almost exclusively Pour Hommes.

If the fragrance that is now chanel #5 had "pour homme" tacked on the end of it....it would be considered a classic amounst men. Also, i pick any womens fragrance released in the past ten years and add "pour homme" to it and i bet TONS of men would buy it.

Gender marketing is for the men who are men, and for the women who like it that way.
Renato

P.S. - Do you know whose quotation I've ripped off?

A more updated quote:

"Gender marketing is for the men who are sheep, and for the companies who like it that way."

I really don't know and really don't care. If one is discerning he'll find out what he likes. Reasons for Pour Homme, Pour Femme? Marketing, Orwellian social conditioning, etc.

Just move away from the herd. There are no classifications in nature.

"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment."

RW Emerson

If the millions of men who wear Le Male knew that Gaultier used to design skirts for men, would they still wear it?

If the millions of men who wear A*Men knew that Mugler designs clothes bordering S&M clothing, would they still wear it?

If the millions of men found out that there was a floral note or ingredients that are used in womens scents, would they still wear it?

I wouldn't recommend at all any man to wear a scent if they're flora-phobic.

I'm just glad to have my Rive Gauche Pour Homme--It's exactly what it SHOULD be.

All this is nice but there is no way I want to hear comments like the following:

-"What are you wearing? Oh, my grandmother and Aunt Penelope wore that. What great memories of my childhood visiting them on Christams and eating the great cookies they baked all morning"
- "My nece that had her sweet 16 party this weekend just discovered perfume and that is the one she wears"

Sorry, but maybe some Pour Femme fragrances are close to unisex or closer to Pour Hommes, but Pour Femme products are made to help women be feminine.

Are women's cosmetics and women's clothes also just marketing and thus suitable for men who are "comfortable with their masculinity" (or some other similiar modern day politically correct jiberish).

find out for yourself - http://www.jeanpaul-gaultier.com/ go to 'Le Beau Male'. Don't forget, they just make suggestions. It depends on your own values to either adopt such goals, simply get amused, or be utterly disgusted! 8-)

I have always been confused about this. The gender marketing is problematic. If a woman is attracted to so called feminine smells and a man wants to attract a woman, why would he wear a so called masculine smell?

If we just wear scents to project an image of ourselves which we like then it's all up for grabs. Some days I feel like being "assertively masculine" and may wear vetiver or woody smells but most days I feel more balanced and prefer something different, often with roses like my bloved R de capucci.

I guess that qualifies you for joining my flock. ;D
Renato

I'll explain it to you.

Observe groups of children at play. Most boys love climbing trees, playing with sticks etc (Male=Woods). Most girls love picking and playing with flowers(Female=Flowers).

Observe groups of adults at play. Most men don't chase masculine looking/smelling butch women. Most women don't try too hard with effeminate looking/smelling guys.
Renato

A man who is a man knows that when he buys Nivea moisturiser, it would be better if he bought the For Men version - unless he wishes to be judged as effeminate by numerous members of both sexes.

Oh, he can engage in as many stimulating conversations on the topic as he wishes - but it is irrelevant - numerous men and women will categorise him as being in the "odd/effeminate" category if he smells of the women's Nivea.

The world isn't as you would like it to be, nor as you would wish it to be, nor as you want it to be - it just is the way it is - full of strong gender specific preferences. These preferences aren't laws that have to be followed, but one would be unwise to pretend that they didn't exist, and that there are always zero negative consequences for ignoring them.
Renato

A man who is a man knows that when he buys Nivea moisturiser, it would be better if he bought the For Men version - unless he wishes to be judged as effeminate by numerous members of both sexes.

Oh, he can engage in as many stimulating conversations on the topic as he wishes - but it is irrelevant - numerous men and women will categorise him as being in the "odd/effeminate" category if he smells of the women's Nivea.

The world isn't as you would like it to be, nor as you would wish it to be, nor as you want it to be - it just is the way it is - full of strong gender specific preferences. These preferences aren't laws that have to be followed, but one would be unwise to pretend that they didn't exist, and that there are always zero negative consequences for ignoring them.
Renato
[/quote]


But my parents generation of men wouldn't buy nivea anything for fear of being classified as girly. It is because of progressive thinking that we can all talk about liking perfume. You may not wish to wear pour femmes, and that's fine but others should be able toi if they want.

I guess that qualifies you for joining my flock. ;D
Renato[/quote]
Yes.

There is no one I talk to, and I've brought this up to many people of different ages, that can understand how a man can wear a women's fragrance wihtout thinking that he would be effeminate or gay.

The guys I ask laugh about the people here that do so. The women I ask are the ones who are most adament - they think that the guys who do so have a masculinity problem and I hear comments like "hell no, why would I want to go out with a guy who smells like my sister".

Although I am 100% against wearing women's colognes (or doing anything feminine), I've actually defended the individuals here who do so, trying to tell the people I speak with that due to the passion hobbiests have for their hobbies, they have a different way of thinking than the general public and thus, it's a hobby thing, not a social thing.

I guess that qualifies you for joining my flock. ;D
Renato[/quote]
Yes.

There is no one I talk to, and I've brought this up to many people of different ages, that can understand how a man can wear a women's fragrance wihtout thinking that he would be effeminate or gay.

The guys I ask laugh about the people here that do so. The women I ask are the ones who are most adament - they think that the guys who do so have a masculinity problem and I hear comments like "hell no, why would I want to go out with a guy who smells like my sister".

Although I am 100% against wearing women's colognes (or doing anything feminine), I've actually defended the individuals here who do so, trying to tell the people I speak with that due to the passion hobbiests have for their hobbies, they have a different way of thinking than the general public and thus, it's a hobby thing, not a social thing.
[/quote]

And there are people who think wearing ANY fragrance makes you effemenate or gay. They are wrong. Some people just follow marketing and think what they are told to think. These people are not innovators. They often have no consciousness that people in other parts of the world think differently. This is dangerous and needs to be challanged at every turn.

The smells I choose are not just about sexuality. They can express many aspects of personality or none.

I certainly agree with my musical colleague. A blind test could be arranged to see if people could identify scents as masculine or feminine. I think that if we went easy on the florals, you can be sure that scent-ignorant people would make loads of mistakes.

Just as many as if you did a blind wine-tasting test where people try to pick out the most expensive wine.

And I think it's safe to say that people here aren't really wearing scents to please the average mook anyway.

I certainly agree with my musical colleague. Â*A blind test could be arranged to see if people could identify scents as masculine or feminine. Â*I think that if we went easy on the florals, you can be sure that scent-ignorant people would make loads of mistakes.

Just as many as if you did a blind wine-tasting test where people try to pick out the most expensive wine. Â*

And I think it's safe to say that people here aren't really wearing scents to please the average mook anyway.[/quote]

YES!
There's no freakin way I wear Z-14 thinking that chicks dig it. There's more to this hobby than that.

feminine/masculine frags are just as much a genre as fougere or citrus or chypre. It's just a way of giving you an idea of what you're getting. Those classifications can be way off, but then so are some people's first impressions of some frags.
But then again, I've never really had a problem with mixing gender roles. I think that a woman in a suit with a loose tie and a few open buttons to be just as attractive as a guy in eyeliner or a tasteful lipstick.
And let's not forget that fashion advertising is largely responsible for public perception of gender roles- can you imagine a guy wearing low-rise jeans 10 years ago?

-ben

edit- I should add that, although I stick mainly to 'masculine' frags, I consider that to be a result of my personal taste. It's no different than liking chocolate or not. I think I can say this with some confidence, since I like my favorite male frags on girls just as much as I like wearing them myself.

I wear alot of unisex frags, alot of "pour hommes" and maybe one or two that are marketed to women from time to time.

I think I'm in Renato's camp at the end of the day. I like the shorthand of gender conventions in general. I don't have something ridiculous to prove. I'm comfortable in being a man. I like the heritage of manhood, and smelling like a man. It doesn't make one a lug. Sure, most of the best fragrances IMO are unisex. I don't wear big manly scents EVERYday...but hey, I understand why some scents are released as "pour homme" and "pour femme"-- It's the designer's vision of what they want to represent man and woman. If Dior Homme is a bit feminine, so be it--I can see what they were trying to do. I just want to smell good (unisex) or manly (pour homme)-- I DON'T however want to smell like a woman under any circumstances.

But anyway, this argument is really close to the dead horse one. I'm just saying that personally, I don't get the violent anti-pour homme/femme sentiment on this issue. It's so hostile sometimes. Like, "how DARE some company try to tell me what to wear!?" Wear whatever the hell you like if it makes you happy (as some people can't stop saying at every chance)... I just happen to like wearing pants. I'm not on some ambiguous sexuality mindf*ck trip like some people might be...

Now granted, there are ALOT of scents that are hommes/femmes where you just scratch your head and wonder what they were smoking. So I don't want my comments to sound like I'm some guy with blinders on, who gets suckered in by marketing... but seriously, for whatever reason, people instinctively KNOW what's right. When I wear Rive Gauche Pour Homme and get attacked by women, I know all is right in my world.

A bottle of this will be on my shopping list tommorow!!

I guess that qualifies you for joining my flock. ;D
Renato[/quote]
Yes.

There is no one I talk to, and I've brought this up to many people of different ages, that can understand how a man can wear a women's fragrance wihtout thinking that he would be effeminate or gay.

The guys I ask laugh about the people here that do so. The women I ask are the ones who are most adament - they think that the guys who do so have a masculinity problem and I hear comments like "hell no, why would I want to go out with a guy who smells like my sister". Â*

Although I am 100% against wearing women's colognes (or doing anything feminine), I've actually defended the individuals here who do so, trying to tell the people I speak with that due to the passion hobbiests have for their hobbies, they have a different way of thinking than the general public and thus, it's a hobby thing, not a social thing.
[/quote]

And there are people who think wearing ANY fragrance makes you effemenate or gay. They are wrong. Some people just follow marketing and think what they are told to think. These people are not innovators. They often have no consciousness that people in other parts of the world think differently. This is dangerous and needs to be challanged at every turn.

The smells I choose are not just about sexuality. They can express many aspects of personality or none.

[/quote]
People thinking that any guys that wear fragrances are effiminate or gay are not in the mainstream. All during my lifetime, and that goes back to the 50's, I remember men's colognes like Old Spice and Skin Bracer in barber shops and drug stores. And this was before all the politically "correct" ideas of gender began in the 60's.

It's not as simple as just marketing saying "let's make this feminine and this is masculine". There had to be research and reasons that determined which fragrances made a woman smell feminie, a man smell masculine or a neutral fragrance that did neither (unisex). Obviously the idea is in line with Renato's statements about what boys and girls like.

Women liked soft and floral, men did not. It's not the marketing people who determined this, but is instinctive. Just like the girls with their motherly instinct who play with dolls and the boys who like construction sets.

It's correct to say that fragrances reflect aspects of personality for those who study them, like Basenoters. But how many guys in the general public are doing this at the ladies fragrance counter? Â*

There is a definite 'force' operating in Male fragrances which is that there are Gay Male users of Male frags (and Female ones as well). I think some of the more subtle homo-erotic adverts for Male frag's are testimony to te fact that marketers are aware of this.....
I'm not saying that wearing frag's make a Man open to question RE his sexuality (I'm happily straight) but there is a degree of ambiguity that is perhaps played upon by the frag' manufacturers themselves (why cut off a potential market). Having said that there are frag's which I feel are obviously aimed at the Gay market (JPG and Joop). I think that anyone wearing them shouldn't be at all suprised if people pick up the wrong/right signal!
As for men wearing female frag's. I guess it's a bit like a man loving to dress up in women's clothing. Men who do such and maintain a hetrosexuality probably do so for the love of the elegance of such items rather than to express some sexualy identity. Again, they shouldn't be surprised if people assume certain things as a result of their wearing a female frag'. Ironically a woman weraing a Male frag' (as many women in the perfume selling industry do), would not be open to questions about their sexuality to the same degree. Women CAN wear the pants!

I'm sure that gays are a factor to some fragrance companies and in the opinions of some here, but they aren't a factor in any of my opinions.

Then good for you.

I guess that qualifies you for joining my flock. ;D
Renato[/quote]
Yes.

There is no one I talk to, and I've brought this up to many people of different ages, that can understand how a man can wear a women's fragrance wihtout thinking that he would be effeminate or gay.

The guys I ask laugh about the people here that do so. The women I ask are the ones who are most adament - they think that the guys who do so have a masculinity problem and I hear comments like "hell no, why would I want to go out with a guy who smells like my sister".)

In the same breath, i would say why would i want to go out with some dumb c**t who thinks something like that. You sound like you have some real "winners" for friends. I'm glad i dont travel in your circle. Â*

A man who is a man knows that when he buys Nivea moisturiser, it would be better if he bought the For Men version - unless he wishes to be judged as effeminate by numerous members of both sexes.)

Who cares if some dumbass who doesnt know me wants to "judge me as effeminate"?? Why should i care about that???

But my parents generation of men wouldn't buy nivea anything for fear of being classified as girly. It is because of progressive thinking that we can all talk about liking perfume. You may not wish to wear pour femmes, and that's fine but others should be able toi if they want.[/quote]


No one is saying that others shouldn't be able to wear what they want - of course they can.
I'm just pointing out that
a. There are very strong gender preferences, and
b. The notion that people who have those strong gender preferences are either
Â*i. Â* Â* Meatheads, or
Â*ii. Â* Â*Brainwashed by companies, Â*or
Â*iii. Â* Somehow unenlightened,
are inaccurate flights of wishful thinking, and denials of reality.
Renato

I guess that qualifies you for joining my flock. ;D
Renato[/quote]
Yes.

There is no one I talk to, and I've brought this up to many people of different ages, that can understand how a man can wear a women's fragrance wihtout thinking that he would be effeminate or gay.

The guys I ask laugh about the people here that do so. The women I ask are the ones who are most adament - they think that the guys who do so have a masculinity problem and I hear comments like "hell no, why would I want to go out with a guy who smells like my sister". Â*

Although I am 100% against wearing women's colognes (or doing anything feminine), I've actually defended the individuals here who do so, trying to tell the people I speak with that due to the passion hobbiests have for their hobbies, they have a different way of thinking than the general public and thus, it's a hobby thing, not a social thing.
[/quote]

And there are people who think wearing ANY fragrance makes you effemenate or gay. They are wrong. Some people just follow marketing and think what they are told to think. These people are not innovators. They often have no consciousness that people in other parts of the world think differently. This is dangerous and needs to be challanged at every turn.

The smells I choose are not just about sexuality. They can express many aspects of personality or none.

[/quote]
People thinking that any guys that wear fragrances are effiminate or gay are not in the mainstream. All during my lifetime, and that goes back to the 50's, I remember men's colognes like Old Spice and Skin Bracer in barber shops and drug stores. And this was before all the politically "correct" ideas of gender began in the 60's.

It's not as simple as just marketing saying "let's make this feminine and this is masculine". There had to be research and reasons that determined which fragrances made a woman smell feminie, a man smell masculine or a neutral fragrance that did neither (unisex). Obviously the idea is in line with Renato's statements about what boys and girls like.

Women liked soft and floral, men did not. It's not the marketing people who determined this, but is instinctive. Just like the girls with their motherly instinct who play with dolls and the boys who like construction sets.

It's correct to say that fragrances reflect aspects of personality for those who study them, like Basenoters. But how many guys in the general public are doing this at the ladies fragrance counter? Â*
[/quote]

That was very profound. Did it ever occur to you that not ALL men are alike? That some men who are not gay may actually like flowerey smelling scents? No, never mind, dont answer that because i dont think it did occur to you.

But my parents generation of men wouldn't buy nivea anything for fear of being classified as girly. It is because of progressive thinking that we can all talk about liking perfume. You may not wish to wear pour femmes, and that's fine but others should be able toi if they want.[/quote]


No one is saying that others shouldn't be able to wear what they want - of course they can.
I'm just pointing out that
a. There are very strong gender preferences, and
b. The notion that people who have those strong gender preferences are either
Â*i. Â* Â* Meatheads, or
Â*ii. Â* Â*Brainwashed by companies, Â*or
Â*iii. Â* Somehow unenlightened,
are inaccurate flights of wishful thinking, and denials of reality.
Renato[/quote]

Why are you so concerned about what people think about you? You must either have:

a. just graduated high school and are still in puberty or
b. between the age of 20 and 25 and still trying to keep up a facade of male coolness.

A man who is a man knows that when he buys Nivea moisturiser, it would be better if he bought the For Men version - unless he wishes to be judged as effeminate by numerous members of both sexes.)

Who cares if some dumbass who doesnt know me wants to "judge me as effeminate"?? Â* Why should i care about that???

[/quote]
And I wouldn't care whether you cared about it or not.

Yours is a good attitude - I'm often in the "Who cares camp?" myself.

I'm just stating the obvious about the reaction of a group of other people (the majority).
While you don't care what they think, are you in fact denying that many of them would actually think it?
Renato

A man who is a man knows that when he buys Nivea moisturiser, it would be better if he bought the For Men version - unless he wishes to be judged as effeminate by numerous members of both sexes.)

Who cares if some dumbass who doesnt know me wants to "judge me as effeminate"?? Â* Why should i care about that???

[/quote]
And I wouldn't care whether you cared about it or not.

Yours is a good attitude - I'm often in the "Who cares camp?" myself.

I'm just stating the obvious about the reaction of a group of other people (the majority).
While you don't care what they think, are you in fact denying that many of them would actually think it?
Renato[/quote]

No, i'm not. ABSOLUTELY not. I got my haircut the other day by a woman who said she wore mens scents. I came out of the shop thinking that she was a lesbian. I found out later she has three kids so i guess i was wrong. But my thinking that didnt mean she WAS a lesbian so it didnt matter what it thought. Same thing with me.

Clearly you haven't read the content of what I wrote in my passage that you cited above, and failed totally to address anything I said.

Could you perhaps respond to what I wrote, rather than to what you fancifully speculate about me?
Renato

Excellent. Glad to see you agree with my proposition.
Renato

I dont konw why people pretend that there is a correlation between a man who like to wear womens dresses and a man that likes to wear a womens fragrance/perfume. It's such a ridiculous comparison. Womens clothing has such obvious gender clues whereas scents dont. Perfumes/colonges are made up of things that naturally occur in nature. Womens clothing is specifically designed to fit and look nice on a woman....NOT A MAN!!!!! I'm surprised some people have not said something along the lines of "real men dont eat quiche or salads". LOL!!!!

A bottle of this will be on my shopping list tommorow!!
[/quote]


Good Heavens! Â*You mean some of us are not complete narcissists and actually care about the effect we have on the opposite sex? Â* Heresy! Â* A fragrance, Â*like any other work of art should Â*be enjoyed for its own sake, preferably in solitude, Â*so that there are as few distractions as possible . . .

Say, Â*what kind of a smutty forum do you think this is anyway?

A few years ago when the epiphany came to me to sniff out some of the men's fragrances, I felt that a whole new world had opened up for me. I've been wearing fragrances since 7th grade, and had worn women's frags exclusively up until around 2003 (with the exception of unisex frags like CKone & CKbe). I think it's actually a good thing to market frags as "masculine, feminine, unisex" because it gives people a starting point. They know what kind of frags they prefer, so they gravitate to that side of the counter. Think about how fatigued your nose gets during a day of cologne/perfume sniffing. Now, think about what would happen if frags weren't marketed toward a particular gender, and you just had to sniff for something you liked. I get a headache just thinking about that!

At first, I admit, I was hesitant to try women's frags, because as a lesbian I want to attract women and I thought wearing mens' frags would repel them. But in the end I just went with what *I* thought smelled good, and I've gotten more compliments from women when I wear mens' frags than when I'd wear womens' frags.

I for one agree with what has been said on this forum for as long as I've been a member...wear what you like.

Interesting how this discussion is reeking of "What scents do chicks dig?" only instead it's been spun into a "what scents will drive chicks away?" thread.

If we agree that it's the man who wears the fragrance that attracts the woman, and not the fragrance that is worn by the man, then why would the same man wearing any fragrance that is good on him drive away women if that fragrance is one marketed to women?

There are all kinds of people in the world with all kinds of attractions. Sure, many women are attracted to the classic manly man, but there are plenty of others who find the nerdy, effeminate, androgynous, geeky, and intellectual types to be more attractive to them. Stereotyping is for idiots. The crossdressing analogy is inane and superfluous.

I'm still waiting for someone to take me up on the challenge to definitively differentiate between 10 unlabelled fragrances as to which among them would be marketed to which sex. Since no one actually believes he can do this reliably, what's the point about being so uptight about the marketers target gender? Baah Baah Baah.

This is very well put. Even on the men's fragrance boards, there are tons of posts like "I'm older and more refined, I dress in suits and am professional, what should I wear?" and "I'm a young college student and I want to wear something that would be appropriate for class and the club"

It just goes to show that yes, there are indeed all kinds of people in the world with all kinds of attractions. But...many people post about how they describe themselves, and inquire about the kinds of scents that would be appropriate for them. But when we suggest frags for them...don't we tend to stereotype just a bit when suggesting frags according to their description of themselves?

Because your challenge would prove nothing.

I could run a similar challenge and pick say Aramis, Quorum, Gucci Pour Homme, Brut, Byzance, Madame Rochas, Giorgio Yellow and Channel 5 as my samples and get a 100% success rate at picking the men's and women's apart - proving the exact opposite of what you would have "proved".

If I didn't get a 100% success rate, those that failed this test could enroll in remedial smelling school.
Renato

I guess that qualifies you for joining my flock. ;D
Renato[/quote]
Yes.

There is no one I talk to, and I've brought this up to many people of different ages, that can understand how a man can wear a women's fragrance wihtout thinking that he would be effeminate or gay.

The guys I ask laugh about the people here that do so. The women I ask are the ones who are most adament - they think that the guys who do so have a masculinity problem and I hear comments like "hell no, why would I want to go out with a guy who smells like my sister".

Although I am 100% against wearing women's colognes (or doing anything feminine), I've actually defended the individuals here who do so, trying to tell the people I speak with that due to the passion hobbiests have for their hobbies, they have a different way of thinking than the general public and thus, it's a hobby thing, not a social thing.
[/quote]

Isn't it all about context though? It seems we are always going in circles about these things but I'm still going to try to say something... The context here would be that most people wouldn't know if the scent I'm wearing is pour homme or pour femme, only that I smell good. They don't know what the bottle looks like or at what counter I purchased it and therefore have no criteria to judge it from other than how it smells. I'm positive I have scents people could pick out as female fragrances but then again I know I have lots people can't do that with. At least not the people I hang around with, people which I guess are extremely open minded compared to "common people" judging from comments here.
I mean, of course they answer that they don't want to smell like a girl or that their date should not smell like their sister. I'm just saying, if they only knew...

I guess that qualifies you for joining my flock. ;D
Renato[/quote]
Yes.

There is no one I talk to, and I've brought this up to many people of different ages, that can understand how a man can wear a women's fragrance wihtout thinking that he would be effeminate or gay.

The guys I ask laugh about the people here that do so. The women I ask are the ones who are most adament - they think that the guys who do so have a masculinity problem and I hear comments like "hell no, why would I want to go out with a guy who smells like my sister". Â*

Although I am 100% against wearing women's colognes (or doing anything feminine), I've actually defended the individuals here who do so, trying to tell the people I speak with that due to the passion hobbiests have for their hobbies, they have a different way of thinking than the general public and thus, it's a hobby thing, not a social thing.
[/quote]

And there are people who think wearing ANY fragrance makes you effemenate or gay. They are wrong. Some people just follow marketing and think what they are told to think. These people are not innovators. They often have no consciousness that people in other parts of the world think differently. This is dangerous and needs to be challanged at every turn.

The smells I choose are not just about sexuality. They can express many aspects of personality or none.

[/quote]
People thinking that any guys that wear fragrances are effiminate or gay are not in the mainstream. All during my lifetime, and that goes back to the 50's, I remember men's colognes like Old Spice and Skin Bracer in barber shops and drug stores. And this was before all the politically "correct" ideas of gender began in the 60's.

It's not as simple as just marketing saying "let's make this feminine and this is masculine". There had to be research and reasons that determined which fragrances made a woman smell feminie, a man smell masculine or a neutral fragrance that did neither (unisex). Obviously the idea is in line with Renato's statements about what boys and girls like.

Women liked soft and floral, men did not. It's not the marketing people who determined this, but is instinctive. Just like the girls with their motherly instinct who play with dolls and the boys who like construction sets.

It's correct to say that fragrances reflect aspects of personality for those who study them, like Basenoters. But how many guys in the general public are doing this at the ladies fragrance counter? Â*
[/quote]

That was very profound. Â*Did it ever occur to you that not ALL men are alike? Â*That some men who are not gay may actually like flowerey smelling scents? Â*No, never mind, dont answer that because i dont think it did occur to you. Â*[/quote]

First of all, it wasn't meant to be "profound" (I love it when people need use statements like this rahter than being able to present their position propoerly), just a statement of fact that fraagrance companies didn't just sit there and haphazardly say that this is feminine and this is masculine, now let's go out and make the people believe it and make lots of money. There obviously was research into this to arrive at these classifications which have consistently been successful to the general public.
Second of all, it obviously "occurred to me" (here we go again with the phrases) that men are different and may like florals. I was just trying to make a comparison to other things in the world. Â*People like different things to smell. When I was a kid I loved the smell of paint, turpentine and the things like that. Most people hate them. I always loved the smell of cigars. Others hate it. Â*There are some feminine fragrances that women wear that are floral that I love to smell - but sure as hell not on me.

I find the chorus of "Wear whatever you want" that typically arises in these threads quite amusing.

Because while some are indeed legitimate assertions of "Wear whatever you want",
other assertions seem to me to be more along the lines of....

"Wear whatever you want ...... but if what you want are only standard gender preference scents then you're an unsophisticated, stereotypical, corporately brainwashed meathead ....... definitely not a part of the sophisticated, elite crowd who have transcended those arbitrary marketing homme/femme barriers."

Or do I read too much into the previous responses?
Renato

Because your challenge would prove nothing.

I could run a similar challenge and pick say Aramis, Quorum, Gucci Pour Homme, Brut, Byzance, Madame Rochas, Giorgio Yellow and Channel 5 as my samples and get a 100% success rate at picking the men's and women's apart - proving the exact opposite of what you would have "proved".

If I didn't get a 100% success rate, those that failed this test could enroll in remedial smelling school.
Renato[/quote]

Well actually, I think it would prove quite a bit. I don't think any of us on the "other side" (well, I'm sure someone has but count them out heh) has ever said that this is true for all scents. Of course there is a huge load of fragrances that easily can be picked out has marketed towards either men or women. But what docluv45 says is that he can easily find several fragrances where the distinctions are so hard to find that they could not be picked out in a blind test with a 100% accuracy. And what you (I'm not naming anyone here even though I reply to you Renato) say is that there is no chance on earth that you'd ever wear something labelled pour femme. But if you can't pick out which are which, are you not shooting yourself in the foot? Or do you simply mean that if it is so hard to make the distinction between them the scent is not for you? I guess if you really don't like scents like that it is fine, it is all a matter of taste and I really don't think anyone is wrong when it comes to their own taste. But I think we are talking about something bigger than personal taste here.

I think it could put a perspective on things.

I really don't want to belong to either side and I really don't like when these discussions become heated. I have respect for almost everyone on these boards and I still want to have that. I really hope I'm not triggering anything here.

What you say is theoretically correct. I just don't think the range of scents at the margin that can be confused is as great as is being claimed. If he can indeed find 10 or 20 scents that can be easily confused, it doesn't matter - I know of hundreds or thousands that won't be. The notion that this Pour Homme/Pour Femme thing is just a clever marketing ploy or sinister brainwashing cannot be proved by such a limited selective test.

Actually, the scent that started off this debate - Fujiyama Homme - is one that I own, and is indeed one that I thought a woman could also wear. Basically it's just CK One plus L'Eau D'Issey - a unisex scent mixed with a non-ultra masculine scent. I can see why some women would wear it.

And there are a few scents in men's bottles like Incensi, Dilmun, Voleur De Roses that I think are more feminine than masculine that I'd never wear, and some like Yerbamate that I also think is a tad feminine - but I like it.

But the often cited Kingdom, Black Cashmere, Eau de Rochas and D&G Light Blue are just plainly and unambiguously feminine to my nose. Black Cashmere is certainly the woodiest - my ladyfriend and I have chuckled every time she's put it on - given her reaction to it when I first got it for her ("This is something a lesbian would wear&quot - I'll spare you what I say to her.

The most feminine smelling scent I wear is GFF Men which starts off a bit girly before changing to something more manly (the women's GFF does the opposite). I'm not averse to smelling girly for 10 to 15 minutes till it transmutes to something more masculine. But I don't experience the sense of enlightenment and liberation and sophistication during that period that other's apparently feel - instead I just hope it changes before I get to the train station.
Renato

A bottle of this will be on my shopping list tommorow!!
[/quote]


Good Heavens! Â*You mean some of us are not complete narcissists and actually care about the effect we have on the opposite sex? Â* Heresy! Â* A fragrance, Â*like any other work of art should Â*be enjoyed for its own sake, preferably in solitude, Â*so that there are as few distractions as possible . . .

Say, Â*what kind of a smutty forum do you think this is anyway?






[/quote]

Solitude is nice, but I'll take the women chashing after me instead!!

What you say is theoretically correct. I just don't think the range of scents at the margin that can be confused is as great as is being claimed. If he can indeed find 10 or 20 scents that can be easily confused, it doesn't matter - I know of hundreds or thousands that won't be. The notion that this Pour Homme/Pour Femme thing is just a clever marketing ploy or sinister brainwashing cannot be proved by such a limited selective test.

Actually, the scent that started off this debate - Fujiyama Homme - is one that I own, and is indeed one that I thought a woman could also wear. Basically it's just CK One plus L'Eau D'Issey - a unisex scent mixed with a non-ultra masculine scent. I can see why some women would wear it.

And there are a few scents in men's bottles like Incensi, Dilmun, Voleur De Roses that I think are more feminine than masculine that I'd never wear, and some like Yerbamate that I also think is a tad feminine - but I like it.

But the often cited Kingdom, Black Cashmere, Eau de Rochas and D&G Light Blue are just plainly and unambiguously feminine to my nose. Black Cashmere is certainly the woodiest - my ladyfriend and I have chuckled every time she's put it on - given her reaction to it when I first got it for her ("This is something a lesbian would wear&quot - I'll spare you what I say to her.

The most feminine smelling scent I wear is GFF Men which starts off a bit girly before changing to something more manly (the women's GFF does the opposite). I'm not averse to smelling girly for 10 to 15 minutes till it transmutes to something more masculine. But I don't experience the sense of enlightenment and liberation and sophistication during that period that other's apparently feel - instead I just hope it changes before I get to the train station.
Renato[/quote]

Thanks for the response Renato, I think I understand where you are coming from now and your side of the arguments. And if this discussion is about PH/PF beinga marketing ploy I have to say that I really don't think so either.

Physical man gets into an uncomfortable place when he concludes, "I and those like me have come to the right decisions, and everybody that's living outside of these right decisions is wrong." And then he spends his life pushing against all those "wrong" decisions and cutting himself off from the Life Force that would help him have joy in his, what he concludes to be, right decisions. There is no one right path. There are endless paths, and the differences in the paths are what make them more and more, and more, perfect. The same old path no longer serves.

Let's see, those who stick to the old path are thus on a less than perfect path?

And those guys who wear women's scents are on the more perfect path?

If I understood you correctly, I applaud you for stating what you really think, rather than masking it with the disingenuously qualified "Wear whatever you want .... but...." espoused by others.
Renato

Yes, you may read too much into previous responses. I listened carefully and did not get what you got. It earns 'the yellow card', I believe, to combine quotes of opinions A, B..etc. in a new, rather absurd sounding statement that has actually not been made by any individual. As I am reading this thread, I get aware of various good causes for men to deviate from the simple m/f/unisex categories of fragrances. Adopting one or two of these causes as justified, does not mean I consider all of them as valid. The same, I believe, holds true to the other flock.

Yellow card?
The words "meatheads", "sheep", "Orwellian social conditioning" weren't words I read into the responses - they were actually there - in black and white - and they are still there.

As indeed were the words that a woman who does not prefer a man wearing women's scents, was a " dumb c**t ".

If anything, I think my synthesis of the responses above has been a bit moderate.
Renato

Yellow card?
The words "meatheads", "sheep", "Orwellian social conditioning" weren't words I read into the responses - they were actually there - in black and white - and they are still there.

As indeed were the words that a woman who does not prefer a man wearing women's scents, was a " dumb c**t ".

If anything, I think my synthesis of the responses above has been a bit moderate.
Renato[/quote]

I probably should not have said that. My apologies. This topic gets brought up and played out and we go round and round and round with it for days and no minds or opinions EVER get changed or will change. Why dont we just leave it at people have different tastes in scents they wear.

Well, there's something we can happily agree on.
Cheers,
Renato

As a result - rather poor, and almost off subject! ;D

But never mind, I have gotten as tired as some others here. Initially I had hoped this was a chance to critically look at prestige product marketing, and the sense or nonsense of gender marketing. I didn't really need another rundown on human gender preferences instead, or the narrowest possible view of it. To me Napoleon is Napoleon, no matter if, or which perfume, powder, or oils he may have used. I am speculating that the present US president wants to make sure, to always use 'correct' scents only. If somebody told me Reagan had borrowed a perfume from Nancy occasionally, that would amuse me. It wouldn't have made him less of a man for me, just as Aramis wouldn't make the man GWB more man. Certainly, it would also not really add to/scratch on the level of sophistication of either.

Fragrances are for people to enjoy, not worry about! You can even leave them for others to wear, which you can not do with clothes! I am really surprised that I should be the first to mention this, as it has been so obvious from the start!

I care. Somewhat. I've worn female scents, but I wear mostly men's scents. The most feminine scent I've ever worn (and I wore it quite frequently) is the newest L'Interdit. That's how much I adore Audrey Hepburn. Audrey Hepburn wore Ambre Canelle as well, that's unisex so I wear that one all the time. I'd also like to check out the fragrances that Kate Winslet wears, but from the description of them they are probably uber-feminine, so I'd rather smell them than wear them.