stop calling creed a niche house!

I actually agree a lot with this. I don't think they are very "niche" anymore. They are sold in every Niemen Marcus around! Everyone owns a Creed. Even people who don't know the significance of creed still own them.

I still concider them Niche only because they are not a designer brand but they are deffinately moving towards main streamism. I wish they wouldn't...

Not only Creed, I have heard that some ppl just don't call AG niche anymore:-)

This is an interesting topic. Â*

One definition of "niche" in the dictionary is: "A special area of demand for a product or service". Â*It seems logical to me that this is the meaning of "niche" when using the term to refer to a perfume house. Â*So, a "niche" house is a house that provides only perfumes (the special area of demand or service). Â*On the other hand, a "designer" house such as Chanel or Hermes or YSL or Bulgari or Boucheron provide many different kinds of products and services besides perfume. Â*A "designer" house is often a house that "designs" clothing, jewelry, etc.

This has been my attempt to apply logic to the question of what a "niche" perfume house is. Â* However, I certainly cannot claim to be an expert on this subject, so if anyone else has a better idea of what "niche" means, then by all means, please let us know.

I'll look forward to seeing the $30,000 Maserati

If Creed is "niche" then so is Guerlain.

I would guess that the term "niche" as used in perfumery was taken from the business marketing term "niche marketing" which is as one British business textbook defines it: "the marketing of products to a particular small segment of the market." So it's the intended market, not the artistry or whether or not the company produces other products, that determines what is niche. Consequently, Ralph Lauren's Purple Label was at one time a niche product and Hermes exclusive line and several Chanels still are niche. Creed sells via Walmart, I believe, making Silver Mountain Water a mass marketing product.

Define "niche" however you want to--To the definers belong the definitions. I'll stick with the business definition of it.

Thank you, foetidus, for your very clear explanation, which makes sense to me.

Call 'em whatever you want, as long as Creed and SL Export is available at Neimans, I'm not complaining. It's hard enough trying to search for the things that we need, and thank the heavens above for the internet! I never would've heard of People of the Labyrinths, Dinner by Bobo, Lubin, Jo Malone, Villoresi, etc., etc.! I even saw Creed at Sephora--SMW, GIT, and Himalaya once. Did it matter if it was something called Niche? Smelled nice, and I didn't have to travel or call Paris to get a bottle. Happy that I can just get it...period.

Does it really matter? If Creed is niche or not? :-?

RIGHT!! Can be extended.

I`m agree with the definition Foetidus and marketing textbook gave to us:
"the marketing of products to a particular small segment of the market."

Then I have to add something more taken from FiFi - DISTRIBUTION.

niche perfumes must be sold in less points of trade - say under 50 PT all over the world, whereas mainstream (luxe) perfumes selling points are above 500 at least. So niche (or selective) perfumes are just hard to find...

You can add that price should be high enough - it really does not matter. IUNX price is 20-25 euro per bottle.

For me niche perfumes and Houses are those that goes their own way making juices - no looks-alike, no sounds-alike, no smells-alike... They are trying to find a new road, to find a new scent area, make a way for the main-stream (luxe) brands.

They are pioneers of Perfumeland, exploring and searching for new segments of fruitful territories... They makes excellent job and got all the risks of new, only working for mainstream to come and take the big profits...

I have always thought of a niche as being a specialty. That's why I've never heard the word 'niche' used with a car company. Any company that exclusively focueses on one product that is their 'niche.' In this case Creed only does fragrances. That is their 'niche.' However Armani does fragrances, clothes, shades, etc so they don't have a 'niche'

My 2 cents about the word niche.

Actually Creed does sell clothes, at least in their Paris boutique.

Guerlain is a cosmetic company incorporated into LVHM, just like Shisedo, Estee Lauder, Lancome or Clinique; Guerlain doesn't just make perfume - although they have a long perfume history.

If niche means something obscure, not easily available - then you have thousands of niche around the world! There are many individuals mixing and selling perfume online, I remember years ago theres a lady selling her gothic scents here at basenote (I wonder what happened to her business?) so is that niche?

In a word, yes. Noting that obscurity or lack of availability is the RESULT rather than the purpose.

I think a better word to label what many people here seem to want to be describing, is "artisanal." Lorenzo Villoresi, Etro, MPG, L'Artisan, etc. might be better referred to as Artisanal Houses. They are probably niche, as well, but they take an artisanal approach to development and production rather than a corporate approach. Artisanal is their approach--niche is their distribution.

In a word, yes. Â*Noting that obscurity or lack of availability is the RESULT rather than the purpose.

I think a better word to label what many people here seem to want to be describing, is "artisanal." Â*Lorenzo Villoresi, Etro, MPG, L'Artisan, etc. might be better referred to as Artisanal Houses. Â*They are probably niche, as well, but they take an artisanal approach to development and production rather than a corporate approach. Â*Artisanal is their approach--niche is their distribution.
[/quote]

That maybe a dictionary definition but most people here see niche as a luxury, not a 2nd rate product from an amateur. I have no doubt that perfume can be view as an art-form, but you do have to earn a profit - many of these art-house fragrance companies projected a 'niche' image to justify their high price. Jean Laporte who founded L'Artisan and MPG makes perfume for many companies around the world. They are contracted for making perfume that are sold at less than half the price compared to their own niche house's perfume. To think of luxury niche house as a bunch of artisan lovingly crafting their liquid artform with no concern for profit is absurb. :

Who said anything about no concern for profit?

"...they take an artisanal approach to development and production rather than a corporate approach."

corporate = money making
artisan = art for art's sake.

;D

I feel the same way. I have no problem with Neimans carrying it because I trust Neimans and do frequent buisness with them. I do not order creed from online wholesalers. As long as it stays within the ligitimate confines of Neimans, I am happy. We need a trustworthy american store to distribute the stuff. As long as is doesn't end up in mainstream detp. stores.

Why does it matter? As long as the juice is still the same what's the big deal?

Why does it matter? As long as the juice is still the same what's the big deal?[/quote]

Personally, it makes no difference to me whether or not Creed ends up at Macy's or Sephora. I know most people aren't willing to spend $150 on just one frag.

Why does it matter? As long as the juice is still the same what's the big deal?[/quote]

It would be like purchasing a BMW or Lexus at a Kia dealership. My autonomy remains invariant. I want to have the choice to shop at a place where it is not available to the general masses. Although many of us know what Creed is, there are still a vast number of people who don't, especially in my experience. So, I feel priviledged and special being able to wear a fantastic fragrance that not everyone has such as Creed, Serge Lutens, Comme des Garcons, etc. Some of us desire to smell marvelous, yet, different. Strangely enough, there are alot of people who wear mass marketed designer fragrances that do not like Creed. Perhaps their nose or taste is not in tune with higher end stuff. In conclusion, I don't believe niche houses belong in the mass market designer world and I am glad for saks and neimans to carry the more illusive treasure trophies. If it was available everywhere, where would the fun be in obtaining it? Discovering a new fragrance is like a thrilling quest and the chase is part of it.

i'm sorry, i don't want to be rude, but isn't that sort of thinking pretty elitist? and not in a good way?

Not at all. There is nothing wrong with buying blue jeans in wal mart but my guess is that you probably buy them in the mall perhaps? If so, isn't that elitist? No, if youhave the means, perhaps you would rather have ambercrombie jeans or nautica, polo etc.

Hey, if you want to call me an elitist for enjoying the fruits of my hard labor with a bottle of refined craftmanship, so be it. I must be an elitist then according to you. Perhaps you don't get it at all. Would you like to go to high school were everyone wears the same uniform? Sure, students will not be jealous over one another but the opportunity to be a unique individual and have their own identity through the world of fashioin is nonexistant.

I don't want't to make someone jealous and I certainly don't regard other's opinions when it comes to what I want to do. One is either a leader or a follower. I am a leader. I want to have my own unique fragrant style and for me the world of niche makes it possible. I even layer fragrances to get something totally my own. Hell, I am even thinking of designing my own fragrance when I get time one day. So, if you want to call me elitist then I guess most of basenotes is as well and we are proud of it! Basenotes is the home for the discerning olfactive-sapiens on the planet. Here you will find that most people love the thrill that different and unique scents give them and if you can find "different and unique" at your local macys or dillards, I am glad for you but for some of us, it takes at little more most of the time.

where my problem comes in is that the exlcusivity of the scent means more to you than the scent itself. correct me if i'm wrong, please, but that's what i took your statement that you would be displeased if creed were to be sold in any department store to mean. would i buy a pair of pants at wal-mart? if i found one that i really liked, of course i would. regardless of how much the creed sells for, or where it sells, wouldn't the juice still be the same? if the exact same scent were sold by tommy hilfiger for 40 dollars a bottle would you still buy it? i understand people like and appreciate nice things, but it just seems weird to me that people would get some sort of self-worth out of owning a fragrance that is too expensive for other people to afford. what's the point of that? i can understand if you want to smell different from other people but it just seemed to me that you were saying you wanted to feel better than other people because they didn't wear the same expensive cologne as you. but i probably misinterpreted you, i'm sorry.

also, i really don't think creed is all that exclusive anyways. it's not some country club or ivy league university you have to be good enough to get into. all you need is a week's paycheck at a minimum wage job. anybody can buy it off the internet, even if they don't live close to a neiman marcus or what have you. hell, somebody could by a 1/3 oz decant off ebay for i don't know, 15 dollars.

Not at all. There is nothing wrong with buying blue jeans in wal mart but my guess is that you probably buy them in the mall perhaps? If so, isn't that elitist? No, if youhave the means, perhaps you would rather have ambercrombie jeans or nautica, polo etc.

Hey, if you want to call me an elitist for enjoying the fruits of my hard labor with a bottle of refined craftmanship, so be it. I must be an elitist then according to you. Perhaps you don't get it at all. Would you like to go to high school were everyone wears the same uniform? Sure, students will not be jealous over one another but the opportunity to be a unique individual and have their own identity through the world of fashioin is nonexistant.

I don't want't to make someone jealous and I certainly don't regard other's opinions when it comes to what I want to do. One is either a leader or a follower. I am a leader. I want to have my own unique fragrant style and for me the world of niche makes it possible. I even layer fragrances to get something totally my own. Hell, I am even thinking of designing my own fragrance when I get time one day. So, if you want to call me elitist then I guess most of basenotes is as well and we are proud of it! Basenotes is the home for the discerning olfactive-sapiens on the planet. Here you will find that most people love the thrill that different and unique scents give them and if you can find "different and unique" at your local macys or dillards, I am glad for you but for some of us, it takes at little more most of the time.[/quote]

I`m with you, and I`m not.
Basenoters are Explorers and Discoverers, that`s the Big Deal!
First - Excellent Fragrances that we found, and Leadership and Uniqueness are secondary profits.
Sometimes I`m wear Lutens and vintage Cuir de Russie - they are pretty hard to find in Siberia.
Sometimes - Jicky Guerlain or Creed.
Sometimes I wear Gucci, Chanel, Dior, Mugler, etc. They are quite a common fragrances all over the world.
But I enjoy them all...

So niche is just less known Houses - and good area to explore... And maybe avant-garde of world perfume industry...

She's still around:

http://gothrosary.com/products.cfm

Creed is still niche IMHO. It's a independent, family owned company.

Though, like you have big players in the commercial fragrance industry, you have big names in the niche world. I consider Creed, L'Artisan, Dyptique, Annick Goutal, Jo Malone and Serge Lutens (even Frederic Malle) the big shots of the niche. Ok, Jo Malone and Serge Lutens are a bit different because they are owned by major cosmetics companies (Estée Lauder and Shiseido respectively).
What's is amazing is L'Artisan marketing, they do everything like major cosmetic companies but on a smaller scale. For example L'Artisan has sales technics classes for SAs, in store displays and decorations available for their resellers to use with every new release, a very stron PR team... Actually I read somewhere that L'Artisan hired Serge Lutens marketing director recently.

Creed is sold at Kmart, which is the antithesis of "exclusive". Â*Go to the Kmart website and search for Creed. Â*Here is the link if anyone would like to purchase some Creed from Kmart:
http://www.kmart.com/catalog/product...&Ntt=creed

No retail prices there, but they don't sell it for cheap either ! Very Ksmart!