Men wearing Women's Fragrances? - Page 9

How is heredity relevant in a gender debate? If the argument is that men are inherently traditionally masculine and women inherently traditionally feminine, I feel that I have to point out that my heredity is exactly 50% masculine and 50% feminine, as is just about everybody else's...

All that aside - this is all about cultural conceptions. Rose is culturally coded as a feminine note in contemporary Western perfumery, not so in Arabic perfumery, and not in Western perfumery 200 years ago. Trust your nose, wear what you like. Perfume is one of life's great sensual pleasures, it's there to be enjoyed, why limit yourself?

I'm not totally sure I understand the original question, but if I do, I think I disagree. I think I like the smell of female fragrance because I like it or even because of it's "femininity," not because of any masculine notes. In fact, I have never understood why the smell of flowers is considered feminine. I personally think that is ridiculous. Unfortunately men are cheated of so many good scents in their colognes and very few will wear women's. I think most men will not actually wear a "woman's" fragrance because of fear. The societal rules that enforce sexism and homophobia are still strongly at play in the lives of everyday people outside of the large metropolitan areas. It's interesting that you mentioned Right Guard. I can still recall smelling that in my high school locker room and finding it nauseating. Recently a guy at my gym was using it and I thought: doesn't he know that there are decent deodorants these days. If Right Guard is masculine, count me out!

*Thankfully no one has gotten seriously injured... yet.*

Anyway, I was happy to see a couple of people mention culture. I'm over in the Arabian Gulf right now, so the perspective is a bit different.

Here, all things "man" tend towards the uber-macho, and dresses in the souq are either fluffy/girly or tarty/tawdry. And while for all appearances "men are men" and "women are women" this side of the pond, the guys can be surprisingly soft with their families and gallant towards strangers, and the ladies can be tough as nails. It's an interesting world, and there are plenty of reminders that gender is just one part of a person's identity.

How does this tie into perfume? Well, I had to buy a wedding present recently, and as my postal clerk once advised, if you're going to buy a gift, "it had better be perfume or a watch."

So I wandered the souq looking for a traditional (i.e. oil-based) perfume for my friend. I went into the first store and asked for a good oud mixture. What would he show me in this macho/fluffy world? The shopkeeper reached down the counter and pulled up... a little purple-pink bottle with crystal teardrops dangling from the top. Very girly. "Oh, no," I said, "I want something for men." He shrugged his shoulders and smeared my hand with the oil, saying, "There's no difference."

And that's the message I got from store to store. Pick any fragrance from the gilded flacons and they'll decant it into the bottle of your choice. Men walk around smelling of jasmine and roses, and women are perfumed with the virile, almost barnyard-y oud that is favored here. And vice versa.

So a lot has to be said for culture and for marketing. Yes, Western marketing is creeping in, meaning your experience in the local Sephora will be rather different. But in the traditional souq there's still "no difference" when it comes to scent. If it smells good, bottle it.

I am sorry but I don't understand what you mean by that. to understand what I mean, here are some articles about it (haven't completely read them myself yet, but will do):

http://www.flyfishingdevon.co.uk/sal...re-nurture.htm
http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...ure.html?cat=7
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_versus_nurture


Well, that is your opinion then, I believe that it's not the only factor.


Let me tell you again: I am all for people not limiting themselves when it comes to fragrances! It's just that I feel that there is a reason for gender categorization that is beyond marketing. And this would for me be a possible confirmation for the OP's thesis.

I really appreciate your comments sir, and i take all you said into consideration, and to be honest, you might be right. For future reference i'll remember what you said (said the fragrance mentee to the fragrance mentor!) again, thanks JaimeB for taking the time to write this, very encouraging.

I mean that any gender-related differences in taste (which I don't believe exist, but to each their own) are not actually hereditary, since we are, after all, the same species and we all have one male and one female parent. You don't inherit the male bits from your father only, genetics don't work that way.

There is plenty of research that shows completely different results, and any article that refers to unpublished studies sounds a little dubious to me.

As for the cultural factor, it is a fact that different notes are/have been considered masculine and feminine in other parts of the world and in other times. Would you claim that the hormonal influence on unborn children is drastically different in other parts of the world than North America and Europe, or was drastically different from today's Europeans in 18th century Europe?


I don't. I don't believe in it for a number of reasons, among them the simple fact that the ideas of what consists "masculine" and "feminine" (yup, it's quotation mark time!) notes is so extremely variable in different locations and different eras. It just doesn't make sense to me, and even apart from research etc. I really find the individual variations and differences between persons, regardless of biological sex and gender, both far greater and far more interesting than any stereotypical differences between the sexes.

I much prefer to relate to other people and the world around me as an individual, in short, rather than as a woman, because in all honesty, the traditional Western idea of what a woman is is extremely limiting and doesn't even come close to encompassing everything that I am as a person. I assume that the same thing applies to everybody else, men as well as women.

I agree that the topic is interesting and hopefully, this thread doesn't fall into something nasty. Regarding the OP, so far, I haven't seen a sufficient evidence that there is a universal gender association for scents. On the other hand, it has been mentioned that gender classification is something relatively new and different cultures have different gender association. I also don't think that a man can assume the perception of females such as women compliment a man wearing female scent because it reminds them of female friends.

As the members here come from different countries, cultures, age groups, etc., why don't we each make small experiment and report the results? It would bring more data to the table and spark more discussion. We can only argue so much based on our own assumption.

Agree 100%: scents are worn and prefered differently across culture, including perceptions on masculinity and femeninity.

Bolder styles preferred in the Mediterranean and the Middle East, softer, subtler styles in other countries, for example.

As to masculinity, at least in Argentina, men are suposed to wear scents in a way, but that does not mean strong criticisms if the wearer does not follow social rules, the way it happens in other countries. On the other hand, wearing femenine scents by men is frowned upon - a machist country with a keen sense of liberalism when it comes to sexual preferences, as paradoxical as it may seem. Of course, in the case the wearer is a technician working in perfume making, that would make people very curious and interested in the topic of perfumes wearing and gender.

I bet this won't be so in other places where the approach to masculinity and tolerance to choices are very different - namely, cities with gay guettoes, gay pubs, gay restaurants, gay guides, gay marches, etc... for example. I would not even dare to think about using Magie Noire in one of such places, or I would seriously think about it before applying, or else, would lie if asked. Rather stick to Farina's Extra Vielle EdC or Alvarez Gomez EdC, LOL.

Color - gender association has been mentioned here as an analogy. However, I found interesting tidbits in:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink#In_gender

"In Western culture, the practice of assigning pink to an individual gender began in the 1920s[13] or earlier[14]. From then until the 1940s, pink was considered appropriate for boys because being related to red it was the more masculine and decided color, while blue was considered appropriate for girls because it was the more delicate and dainty color, or related to the Virgin Mary.[15][16][17] Since the 1940s, the societal norm was inverted; pink became considered appropriate for girls and blue appropriate for boys, a practice that has continued into the 21st century.[18]"

Of course, Wikipedia is not something to rely on 100%. Here are some references used:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/12/st...dra_.html?_r=1

"Although until the 40's, blue was deemed the more "delicate" and hence more feminine color, while pink was seen as more "decided" and more suitable for boys."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/24/ma...pagewanted=all

"But according to Jo Paoletti, an associate professor of American studies at the University of Maryland, it ain’t so. When colors were first introduced to the nursery in the early part of the 20th century, pink was considered the more masculine hue, a pastel version of red. Blue, with its intimations of the Virgin Mary, constancy and faithfulness, was thought to be dainty."

Thanks for the input, zliang. Gotta read that in it's entirety now.


I don't know if that is the case or not. What I can tell for sure is that there are some genetical differences between the races (eg. caucasian and asian).


That is fine and I'd say that I think more or less the same way but I would still find it irritating if people acted as if there were no differences between genders at all. I think we can all agree that there are gender specific differences, the question here is if they also apply to our preferences in terms of fragrances.

Interesting.... care to answer!

Do you think it's too offtopic?

absolutely not, i for one would love to hear what you think as i have my own opinion on it.

Well, isn't that what most of this discussion is about? I tend to believe that there are gender specific differences when it comes to personal fragrance choices. At least in terms of the mainstream, they obviously don't apply to each and everyone.

If you just want to smell nice, the gender differentiation doesn`t make sense, especially because you`ll see that what you like are some specific notes, and then, if they are used in a fragrance that wasn`t marketed for you, but you like, why don`t wear if it does smell nice on you? I understand this as you put the marketing over your own opinion or taste, or let marketing stop you from trying scents that may work on you. If most, if not all, perfumers don`t believe in gender differentiation of scents, are they all wrong?
You leave in your first post this general idea of that you prefer mens fragrances and wonder if people wear feminine fragrances because some seems similar to mans fragrances. And what some tried to say it`s that there are some person, including me, that wear fragrances for the pleasure that the aroma causes. And this doesn`t make you smell like your girlfriend as you pointed before, and again, i tell you that you`ll only perceive this after you star waering fragrances without caring if they are masculines or feminines. It doesn`t mean that all feminine fragrance will work or smell great at you, the same way that not all masculines will work or smell great at you.

I prefer some womens deodorants to men`s one. It`s hard to find a men`s deodorant that doesn`t smell like cheap woods, or like you have scrubbed some fruits and lemons at your armpit. There is also the ones that smell like dirty musk too. It`s hard to find a male deodorant that barely has smell, and there are some woman ones that just smell like fresh linen and are barely noticeable.

Another low consciousness thread............

I dont really pay too much attention to how a deodorant smells, as long as it can keep me dry throughout the day! But i understand what your saying..... question for you, is smell one of the factors of your deodorant choice?

If you are a bearded man in cowboyboots and westernshirt and love to smell like a strawberry, that is absolutely fine but the majority of people will think that it is a strange contrast while the smell of campfire, dry woods and leather would be equally strange on a girl in a pink ballerina outfit. If she loves it, that is great for her but it will seem strange to others. I'd be smitten by fascintation though...

Edit:
One thing that starts to get obvious for me here is that there are people who wear fragrances without being interested in what others think and there are people who do care for that to some degree. Personally, I admit that I do want to get feedback from others when I wear something that I find awesome. Gender preconceptions only come into play for the latter group of fragrance users.

Yes, smell and the dry effect is important to me. I never found any male deodorants that had a barely detectable smell, or you get an unscented deodorant or you get one that has a quite loud aroma. And i don`t like to have my deodorant fighting with the aroma of my fragrance, so if i`m not wearing the deodorant with the same smell of my frag, i prefer that my deodorant protect me without having a loud aroma.

Most chypre fragrances were composed with leather, and dry woods, and they didn`t made woman smell like bad. I think that fragrance is the only part of you where you can really go against the grain. And in general, people barely notice the fragrance you`re wearing if you don`t bathe in it. I wear to work Chinatown from Bond No 9, which has a huge gardenia accord, and never saw anyone commenting about it smelling strange.
All the complaints that i had one day were that the fragrances that i were wearing were loud, and the strange thing is that this complaing came from scents like prada amber pour homme and bvlgari pour homme soir.
At least my overall impression, according to my personal experiences, is that the afraid of smelling like a woman when wearing a womans fragrances is more at our head than at peoples noses. It hards generates that contrast. I have already picked a woman wearing the traditional Polo and on her it smelled great. And she wasn`t a masculine woman.
I had in college a friend that also wore Azzaro Pour Homme, and it smelled sexy on her.

I cannot believe that this is still an issue. I find fragrance categories (feminine/masculine/unisex) are a helpful way to describe a fragrance...a way to start, not to end. Those categories, in conjuntion with such categories as floral; chypre; oriental, are a means of "weeding out" perfumes that an individual probably won't like. I find these things to be descriptions, not mandates. I wore Canoe and English Leather in the 60's, because I liked them and the sillage & longevity were superior to most of the "feminines" of that time. Currently, I think that "feminine" fragrances are more complex and more interesting than many "masculine" fragrances. Life is an adventure, so try something different.

This is another reason that makes me try woman fragrances. It seems that the industry takes more risks on that side of the market.

I think the interpretation of a scent as masculine or feminine is highly subjective and often times has to do with our personal associations. Though Shalimar and Opium are among the more common womens frags worn by men, I will always think of my Aunt Sandy when I smell Shalimar and my old friend Cynthia when I smell Opium. So, to me, those are totally female smells. On the other hand, I have rarely smelled any kind of tuberose frag on anyone so I am totally comfortable wearing Carnal Flower.
I reject the notion that any frag note is inherently male or female. Those ideas are put in our heads by the marketing department. For example, 100 years ago men wore florals and fruits and women wore musks and spices. Today, in the broad scope, the opposite is true. Incidentally the same thing is true with fur.
I do think a man has to be careful wearing very well know womens frags, like No. 5. If you don't care that a fair number of people will recognize what you're wearing then kudos to you!
So often, in the course of the dizzying number of threads on this topic, the subject veers in to sexual identity rather than the initial question of gender appropriateness. I think that's foolish. Wearing Antaeus is not going to make a queen seem any more macho, and a dyke bathed in Quelques Fleurs won't seem any more girly. And let's be frank. Let's speak the unspoken. There are, to be conservative, a lot more gay men around here than in the general population. Ahem.
"Wear what you love, or wear nothing at all."

Dior Dune
Paco Rabbane XS Extreme Girl
Malle La Parfums de Therese

Actually, I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of environmental changes affecting the hormonal development of unborn children. The post-industrial levels of all things chemical in the environment have changed drastically over the past 100 years, and at birth, we are all a product of what our mothers have taken in (among other things, of course)... All I'm trying to say here is that I wouldn't be surprised if our tastes for sensory inputs (such as scent) are somewhat formed in the womb, partially determined by the environ of our incubator (mom). Throughout the developing world, different regions have differing levels of chemical invasions, which could easily account for differing cultural tastes.

However, that says nothing about gender preferences, which is what this thread is really about. I don't think I have any thoughts on the subject that someone hasn't already mentioned. Although personally, growing up in a masculine environment (think rodeos and snowplows), I certainly feel uncomfortable wearing overly floral scents (including those in the men's department). I definitely feel this is due to the fact that I'm socially adjusted to expect natural smells. Where I grew up, a man, in the course of a normal day, may smell like leather, or wood, or even spices, but seldom flowers. This has definitely influenced the notes I prefer in my fragrances. Fortunately, I've lived in LA long enough now that I could feel comfortable in a feminine-marketed fragrance, as long as I enjoy the notes, just not a floral one!

good point, and if no one has said it yet, welcome to Basenotes

Shoot! So I have to review my policy on female-fragrance buying? Oh, no, for personal finances' sake!

I don't know if the industry necessarily takes more risks with feminine scents, but there's certainly a wider variety on that side. Getting over the social awkwardness of browsing in the women's department can open you up to a great selection of interesting fragrances that can be enjoyed purely for the experience and knowledge, even if you have no intention of buying or wearing them yourself.

It's possible, if not entirely plausible - I just really, honestly don't believe that women in the Western world today buy more floral perfumes than men because they are somehow hormonally, biologically more inclined to want to smell like flowers. I don't. I think the entire notion is silly.


So do I. I'm not comfortable wearing sweet girly florals at all, and I'm a woman, rather a traditionally feminine one in some ways at that, if not gender politics! I grew up in a household dominated by women, and I've been gardening since I was a kid (among many other activities, far from all of them girly or traditionally feminine), but I still don't want to smell like flowers. I like swimming too, and was the kind of kid who doesn't come out of the water until someone puts their foot down, but I don't like aquatics. I have always had a sweet tooth, still do, but I don't much care for gourmands. I never rode or came in contact with large animals much, but I love Dzing! and other leathery, animalic fragrances. Neither did I have a mother or grandmother who smelled of old-fashioned powder, but I still love powdery notes.

I did have a grandfather and mother who did some forestry work and took me out in the woods a lot, and I love woody notes. Fancy that!

Bottom line; you are not necessarily the perfumes you like, and it's possible, even plausible, that we just like the somewhat random things we like, complex individuals as we are.

Exatcly, and I haven't seen a real evidence otherwise. The same belief is repeated over and over without something backing it up.

BTW, it doesn't mean that I dismiss the influence of genetics in scent preference. I just don't find a reason to accept the idea of universal gender-scent association.

A flower is not feminine to the farmer who grows them, any more than a campfire is masculine to the woman who cooks over it. Perhaps a three-fold way to divide this question is appropriate...

1. There are smells: rose, pine, lemon, clove. These are chemicals that can be put into a bottle. Anyone can recognize them without much training. There are thousands of discrete fragrances. This is the realm of the perfumer.

2. There are accords: floral, powder, amber, earth. These are combinations that have certain associations in place and time. Recognizing them requires a certain amount of experience, because they are mostly constructs and often complex. There are many categories, of course, but probably not as many as the basic smells. This is the territory of the perfume critic.

3. There are functional assignments: male, female, unisex. If you are OK with these, then you probably won't mind a few others such as baby, home fragrance and pet. These are categories created by imagination, socialization, use and (of course) marketing. Recognizing them takes considerable experience, because they are basically judgements. And here we have the world of human opinion and its mirrors and filters such as glossy magazine, celebrities, etc.

To sum up: A rose is a rose... but oriental may be male, or female, or even a carpet spray. But what is Stetson, or Old Spice, or even Chanel No. 5? In the end, that's really up to you and your neighbors.

Yes. Amen to all of this.

Nice summary, and I agree.

what an interesting discussion.

As I know and also like, many ladies are using men's scents. I love Burberry Touch, Lanvin Arpege or Joop Jump on women. It's more sexy, than typical floral ladies scents for me. But... Anybody used to use nice ladies scent, good for men? I'm not a gay, I'm just curious

Lots of men here wear labelled feminines, there are plenty of threads on the subject - just browse a little further down, or do a search - no one will assume you are gay, and no one would care if you were.

Shalimar, Mitsouko, Angel, Habanita, Bandit, Cuir de Russie, Tabac Blond, Fracas and Vol de Nuit are frequently mentioned, among many others.

WHAT? Are you out of your mind? Where is your manhood? No way! Men should grace their chest hair with splashes of Brut and not the sissy stuff. Florals are for wimps, and fruits are strictly for girls.

But... try Womanity, nonetheless.

Take a look at my wardrobe, I'd reckon
that 75% of my collection is made up of
female scents. But, unlike you, I'm gay,
and as such, not affraid of the über fem
scents.

Ladies fragrances with unisex qualities
which can be worn by all men, besides
the ones Pimpinett mentioned, incl.:
Midnight Poison; Bois des Îles; Black
Orchid; Ma Dame; No 5 (EdT); No 19;
Coco; Hypnotic Poison ... to name but
a few. Don't be affraid, just do it!
If you carry yourself off like a real man,
no one will ever notice, that it's a
female scent you're wearing. Trust me!

Also, speaking as a reasonably straight woman, it's rather sexy.
Agent Provocateur, for instance, is lovely, if a little predictable on me, but a knock-out on the right man.

I use Hermes Hiris. I first smelled it 7-8 years ago, maybe more, when I was in my tertiary days, and couldn't afford a full bottle. I bought it a couple of years later, and it has been in my collection ever since. I'm on my 2nd bottle, with 20mls left. I will definitely buy it again once it finishes.

There are more str8 men here that wear scents marketed for women vs Gay men wearing those scents. My signature is my stand.

That being said, a bottle of perfume can't do anything to your orientation.

I almost wanted to say: Everything in the Duc's drobe. Haha, but he might not forgive me.

JOE IS NOT ALLOWED TO POST HERE. I kid

Oh boy.....

PLS DO NOT HOARD POP CORN

I wear Shalimar, Mitsouko, Coromandel

I cannot see fragrances as masculines or feminines. For me, there just two categories: the ones that i want to wear, and the ones that i don`t want to wear.

Hmm?! Cryptic!


They're already done ... CATFIGHT!

I'm the men with hairy chest, and the most favourite scents in my collection is JPG Fleur du Male, Pi Givenchy, Rochas Man, A*Man etc. Long time ago I sold "hairy chests fragrances" like Paco Rabanne PH or Azzaro PH. Even Gucci PH, because it smells, like my grandpa But I can't imagine woman's fragrances on my skin. Only the unisex. I have to try some.

I can forgive you just about anything!


So am I ... not to mention my beard! YOU CAN DO IT!!!

How curious?


Hot chicks really dig it when I wear Tom Ford Black Orchid. But then they get mad at me when I sleep with their boyfriends.

LOLLxxxx That was brilliant, Joe!! I'm surely going to store this line of yours in my inventory... That was a good one. Damn. *stitches*

Mario-k, jokes aside (sorry, please forgive me if I went too far), I cannot pull off many scents marketed to women (and men for that matter), due to my upbringing, environment and associations.. But there is certainly a very healthy pool of "women" "perfumes" that smell so good, you rather wear it than periodically smell it on someone else.

I must commend you for this thread, because it shows that you are opened to suggestions.

Try approaching scent without the gender labeling. Of course if your nose tells you this is something too girly and uncomfortable, by all means toss it. Just have fun. It may take time, but never too late to start exploring beyond the norm!

Good thread.

I guess there shouldn't really be a universal line to be drawn. You map your own journey!

Whatever you enjoy. But good start points are midnight poison, hypnotic poispn, black orchid and shalimar

If I had a penny for every time a guy told me that one!

J/K

This is a topic that is second only to Creed on these boards, so you will find with a little searching a plethora of information, arguments, and closed threads on the subject. However, unlike the Creed threads I always love this topic, so I'm glad you started this thread.

All scents mentioned are awesome, plus you may want to try Magie Noir, Sous le Vent, Vega, Attrape Coeur, Maharinih, Arpege...

So this is an easy way to get chicks mad with your cologne? hihihihi

Magie Noire is really awesome. I got very surprised with it. I saw some reviews saying how difficult and dark this one was, but i found it smooth at my skin in a chypre way. Not the dark monster that i was expecting from the reviews.

Im not gay, but I do wear a couple "feminine" scents just because they smell freaking good. For example, I wear Bond 9 Chinatown and West Side and their both considered feminine. The only fragrance I wear thats actually for Women is Bond 9 Saks Fifth Ave for Her. Smells like coconut =]. If it smells good, wear it!

Any fragrance worn by a man will, by association, smell masculine. Labels are so tedious and as has been said many times before wear what you like. I chose the fragrances I wear by smell alone, I am not influenced by the bottle or the name.

Of those fragrances marketed for women I have worn:-
Chanel 19
Mitsouko
Vent Vert (the vintage NOT the relaunch)
L'Air de Rien
L'Heure Bleu
Aromatics
Bandit
Perfumer's Workshop Tea Rose

and I never got name called once!

Reformulation had a as a consequence Magie Noire becoming more masculine. The vintage version is way too girly...

Chanel 19 smells manly so does Je Reviens, which, as a mater of fact, share the same kind of structure Sisley's Eau de Campaigne, which is unisex.

Amen ... thank God for alcohol!


You minx, you!

Several of the classic Guerlains are definitely wearable for guys. People won't even notice they're supposed to be feminine scents unless they happen to know what you're wearing. The ones I can think of are Jicky, Shalimar (+ the Eau Legere), and Vol de Nuits. Oh, all these have been mentioned already...

Personally, I enjoy wearing Carnal Flower from time to time. Puts me in the mood for spring every time. But be adventurous! Don't be afraid to go over to the women's section in stores and experiment. Or borrow from female friends, even. That's how you get to find out which ones suit you.

Habanita!

I feel sure I should have added Ole to that.