LAYERING - what a CRIME !!  

I think it can sometimes work. But only with certain combinations, where at least one of the perfumes is very simple, and where the basenotes are complimentary.

Jo Malone scents are wonderful, and they are ideal for layering because they are so simple and basic. Her Grapefruit is without doubt the standard by which any other grapefruit scent can be judged. It's the perfect rendition. Some of the other scents in her range are also very good.

One good combination I've used now and then is to dab on some Miller Harris Terre de Bois EDP, then follow by a fine mist spray of Guerlain Vetiver; a wonderful effect!

Diptyque Tam Dao is another good "mixing" scent, because it is such a pure sandalwood basenote. Could be exciting with some citrus on top.

The only layering I do is when I use the soap, lotion, oil of the same fragrance. I love layering Frederic Malle's Vetiver Extraordinaire shower gel with my Vetiver Extraordinaire EDP. Or layering Musc Ravageur oil with the M Ravageur EDP. I would not layer Vetiver Extraordinaire on top of Dzing! No, never!

Nah, I don't think it's a crime. If it gives you the effect you want, long as you like it then go for it.

If I'm paying hundreds of dollars for a luxury product, then I'm going to do what I damn well please with it. I don't care if it's the finest Russian vodka made only from free roaming potatoes, distilled twenty nine times, with the freshest waters from the mountains of Nepal. If I want to make a screwdriver, then I'm going to make a screwdriver because I paid for the bottle.

The same goes for me with fragrances. If I want to layer, then I don't care if the perfumer comes to me in person and begs me not to, I'm still going to do it because I paid the price.

I would layer the finest caviar with a blini and sour cream, and if I'm really wild I'd add chopped onion or chopped hard boiled eggs.

I would also pair a nice Dom Perignon with Chambord.

It all depends on what you feels goes well with one another.

well, don't read my SOTD.

I like layering, especially if it tones down parts of a fragrance that I don't care for or amps up parts that I do.

i agree, i hate layering. pure disgust. can't people work out their creativity issues in other ways?

americas on a massive "ill do what I want" powertrip now anyways... just watch some daytime tv... layering is obviously just an extension of that mentality... guess what people, layering does not make you unique, creative, visionary or special, and it doesnt give you a wonderful personality! if anything, you just look like some assistant toying with his masters tools when no ones around...

pure nouveau riche mentality

my opinion

The Hermenessence (sp?) fragrances are also explicitly layering-oriented.

I'm quite sympathetic to Informer's point of view.

ooooh, looks like someones not very happy with the current world events ..

Isn't the act of creating perfumes in the first place a sort of layering? Mix some sandalwood, some amber, some spices, some fruity stuff, whatever: you are layering. The only perfume that isn't 'layered' is a single-note juice.

The question just comes down to who is better at layering: the perfumer, or me (and what if I am a perfumer?).

And what's wrong with being creative? Do I have creative issues if I put peas in my Mac and Cheese because I'm trying to outdo Kraft?

Does a painter have creative issues if he's not content with the exact hue and shade of his store-bought paint? Is it wrong of him to mix his paints?

czesc, I thought that you were working on a perfume of your own. It surprised the heck out of me to hear your post on this subject; you seem to be disparaging your own hobby.


-Ben

I don't have a problem with layering, actually I did it this morning Trumper's Spanish leather with Dior Higher energy. There is absolutely nothing wrong with layering fragrance, if you think two, or three, or four fragrances go well together and it would make you happy to smell like that do it. It has nothing to do with the mentality of Americans, and everything to do with wanting to smell good. Just because somebody is a master perfumer doesn't mean what they produce is perfect, otherwise there would be no fragrance industry, just one scent that everyone was exstatic to wear, I'm sure if Olivier Creed heard that someone on basenotes was mixing their green irish tweed with whatever, he'd say "thank you for the 95 euros" or whatever it costs.

p.s. this isn't a new kick America is on de Tocqueville noticed it a couple hundred years back

no im not

at least half of the people here layer

half of the people here are not perfumers.

make sense?

perfumers dont just "layer", they create perfumers... its a very precise, strenuous, and extremely difficult task, you can't get the two confused.

a great architect designs the eiffel tower

a rich texan mounts a 6 foot effeil tower on a lowered truck with bison tusks on the front and installs christmas lights all over it because he has the "money" to do what he "likes"

a silly example... of course...

sorry had to edit something in, single note juices are never at least in my experience, actually comprised of only one single note.. they just have a dominant note...

I hardly call a bunch of crazy fat ladies who wear odd stripper-like pink clothing to the mall/work screaming "ill do wad i wawnt mauwray" and embarrass their children on talk shows "world events"...

btw america isnt the world

I see where you're coming from. I feel the same way about the horrid personal websites that people design on myspace. Streaming audio, videos, flashing text, huge background pictures, animated gifs, etc. It makes me AND my computer puke. Most people aren't capable of putting together a coherent and pleasing online presentation.

However, I don't think that people here on basenotes (whom you were addressing) have creativity issues. We're not talking about some teenager layering Raw Vanilla on A*Men on Cool Water. I like acer's example of Dom mixed with Chambord. Two great tastes taste great together.

I also don't think that America's power trip extends to perfumes... The sales of AdG should make that obvious.

If I sprayed some Grapefruit spray on top of my Bulgari ph, would the resulting smell be inherently inferior to Bulgari Extreme? I just don't think your argument makes sense. Yes, there are disgusting combinations of layers, but there are just as many pre-bottled ways to smell bad. Are you saying that Jovan Musk is superior to JohnCase's layered sprays? Is there some kind of artistic purity inherent to Jovan Musk that must be maintained at all costs?



-ben

Oh boy...

I used to layer all the time... when I wore Axe. I loved mixing the Kilo with the Voodoo, and I thought it smelled good at the time.

Then when I moved to "real" cologne and the like, I didn't layer because I thought the scents were meant to be enjoyed the way they are.

Recently, I've begun experimenting with layering (now that I have a good-sized collection). My favorite combo is Bvlgari Black underneath Azzaro Visit. Sometimes, I like how Visit smells on its own (especially somewhat warmer days), but other times I find it really never goes anywhere with the drydown. Putting some Bvlgari Black on beforehand adds a delicious, rich vanilla to the drydown that really works well.

As mentioned before, perfumery itself is just a bunch of layering of basic scents. There's nothing wrong with making a work of art using both paint and colored pencils, and there's nothing wrong with making a unique fragrance from Creed and Axe (ok, maybe that's going a bit too far, but it's your choice...).

jovan musk and other crappy colognes sucks anyways, so theyre not really part of this discussion, and although ive never heard of them, I have a feeling johncase's sprays are deliberatley designed to be layered or laterable (like jo malones) to fit this emerging layer niche... and make some people alot of money... so, again, do you see where I am coming from ?

although I never lived in them, I like the "old days" when the consumer slistened to the designer much more, instead of designers nowadays conforming to the wants of consumers, dont you think fashion was just so much better back then? the same can be applied to perfumes...

Yes, that's all well and good, but today's fashions do not stem from passionate artists. Following the producer is what makes people a lot of money. Sean John is a designer. Should we all follow his lead? Do you think that he 'designed' his perfume without consumers in mind? What about all the perfume houses that are owned by proctor & gamble- every frag goes through focus groups and limited testing phases. Almost every frag out there was designed FOR consumers. To treat frags with any kind of respect in the sense of artistic integrity is to give them too much credit.
OK, you say, ignore all the crappy frags, the mass-marketed frags, the appealling frags, the Sean Johns, the Guccis, the Armanis, the stuff that everyone wears...
What are you left with? Malle? L'Artisan? what?

I can think of very, very few frags out there that are sold on their artistic merit alone, and with no regard for popular taste.

Once a frag is released, it is almost destined to be popular. To do otherwise would mean death to a frag house. Perfumes are different from runway fashions. It's like trying to compare studio art with mass-market paperbacks.

And why do you leave the designers out of the picture? They are, after all, people- the very people you are criticizing. They were regular people who didn't like what was available, so they did their own thing. Other people liked it, so they got rich. Before any fashion designer was a fashion designer, they were just regular people putting peas in mac and cheese (so to speak).

-ben

edit- ps- johncase is a user who posted in this thread. I was referring to his post about layering. Scroll up a bit.

I was under the impression that "layering" meant re-applying the same fragrance multiple times - not over time, but initially while you are "getting ready".

I make a point to never mix fragrances, as it somewhat defeats the purpose of refining the fragrance to smell a certain way. I will, however, occasionally use an "aquatic" deodorant (cool water deep, in my case), if I will be wearing an aquatic fragrance. Musk to musk as well. - But intentionally mixing fragrances that don't share obvious similarities seems kind of silly to me, just like I wouldn't mix in some alfredo sauce into the chips and salsa I'm eating - Just wrong!

Actually, that sounds kinda good- I think I'm going to have Chips & Alfredo Salsa as a snack tonight.

I don't know where to even start with this. Experimenting with things you enjoy is surely a great example of boorish americans doing whatever they damn well please. Plus it's been well documented that only narcissistic blameless cretins in the United States advocate layering. Layering doesn't make you unique or doesn't make you anything, it makes you curious to see what fragrances will behave like with others. On second thought, maybe you're right.....creativity and experimenting are going to be the end of the western world.


What in God's name are you talking about? Good lord. So layering is a direct result of American Urban Trash of all natures? That's something that's new to me. On second thought, I often hear the talk show crowd discussing how Paris Hilton's new fragrance accents the notes of Jessica Simpson's new edt. Perhaps you're on to something here.......


Another wonderful point. I also feel that we should blindly trust the perfumers and the companies 100%. I'm quite confident that the perfumers have 100% creative control over their fragrances and get to call every shot with their creations. After all there's no reason not to trust any of the major Beauty Houses. Everything they say and do is correct and questioning them is just a another example of Yankee arrogance. I also think we should blindly follow and digest everything produced by the music industry, movie industry, oil industry and all other corporations. Experimentation is the tool of Lucifer himself.

whoa whoa, i said ignore jovan musk... not all the other stuff u mentioned. i mean the really really crappy stuff... liek drugstore brands...

sorry about the johncase thing didnt notice

I'll answer by paragraph

1. Not all things are meant for everyone to experiment with

2. Yes, its a manifestation of the american mentality, slightly classier people just do it with less "flair". imagine this continuum - america : the land of crazy pink outfits, ketchup and pickles on yogurt, and perfume layering.

3. the reason why everything sucks nowadays is because the masses like sensationalized, trendy crap. regular people usually have crap taste, if this werent true, "good taste" wouldn't exist. so, to maximize profit, you just cater to everyones crap taste. examples are pokemon, spinners on everything, 97% of new music etc. all the above industries realized they can make money if they just forcefeed the populus with the garbage they love. and your right, perfumers dont have 100% control over their perfumes because the public wants garbage and they're forced to give it to them. maybe if they did have 100% control you'd have more of the type of stuff you love on the market... unless of course your favourite perfume is instinct by david beckham.

oh btw i forgot, every individual out there is just as smart and talented as the minute amount of people who study their craft for 30 years and practically give their life to an art form. I'm sure our input is just revelation to them.

hey serge, you shoulda thought of layering ambre sultan with guess man! it really brings out the sandalwood!

Well some of us feel that they are



I heard you the first time. This is nothing more than a simplistic blanket statement with no backing. Just restating it with no emperical facts/examples/etc. make this just just as baseless and nonsensical as it was the first time you stated it. I didn't realize that Americans were the only ones who wore pink. This has been quite the eye opener. I look forward to more sociological facts that so clearly exemplify why my culture sucks. I'm getting quite the education here.


Again you're all over the place here. You're complaining on one hand the people should leave the craft alone. Then here, you're saying that they forcefeed us garbage. which way is it? Should we leave garbage be? Should we not layer and just take the crap they give us and not experiment? You're talking in circles. Well thanks for the lesson, I want to get to my yogurt before the pickles get soggy.

I'm ok with layering. I trust the fine noses of basenoters to do a good job or at least learn from their misstep. For those of you who are so totally against it, I don't trust you anyway. Oh..and I know of a couple perfumers (and one on this board!) who layer fragrances.

czesc, your comments are sweeping generalizations of an entire nation...not everyone in America layers, and those who do, so what? You got a problem with that? Atleast in America, people have freedom.

Lets comment and/or criticize the practice of layering without bad mouthing any one nation.

Since it clear when czesc opened his boorish, ignorant, bigotted mouth that this thread got hijacked with another one of his rants--just as offensive and bigotted as his stellar contributions on youth etc.--I might as well step in and say I agree entirely with zztop (never thought there'd be the day when I'd say that) and even though I am a not American, I find the beknighted, caricatures about what America is all about deeply offensive and stupid. I've lived in the US for 16 years, so I have some vantage point from which to talk.

Besides, I have to say that looking back on all your posts you contribute nothing to this board except half-disgested megalomanic rants. Learn something about fragrances before you post again and don't use this board as you personal rant space. Pay a few extra dollars and get blog so that all the other intellectuals you think you're appealing to can join you and your foetid imaginings ,and if you're going to say something about fragrances, say something about fragrances.

Am I out of line? Yeah, maybe, but I find your posts stupid and offensive and, again, with no content whatsoever with regards to fragrances.

scentemental

what do you want me to do? round up all the americans and show you the ones that wear extremely weird stuff around all day long? im sorry if I cant do that. but ive been MANY places in the world, and the only place your gonna find grotesque clothing polluting every stripmall in sight is america. you just have to accept that fact. theres no maury type show profiling rediculous day to day behaviour of a population like that anywhere else in the world. you dont do it, many americans don't, but many americans DO. the worst part is your doing exactly what your claiming that I do, since when was my statement "only americans wear pink".

germans have crazy pee pee porn, americans are gun happy ketchup on bananas lovers and canadians say eh too much (and probably lots of other stuff that people from other countries would notice, and could translate those things to explain our behaviours). accept our differences.

second of all, im not all over the place. back in the days = designers told us what to wear = they had control = perfumes were good. currently = designers try to cater to the tastes of the masses = the perfumer doesnt have control because the market and consumer tastes control him = perfumes are crap (most everything is crap). where am i going all over the place? like how do you not understand what im saying? i dont know how much clearer i can make it. perhaps you dont want to understand what im saying. neither do 95% of the people who come thru this thread. thats fine. it doesn't make what im saying wrong. the earth was never flat either...

to trasker: until you start naming names I will assume you know "aromatherapy" or "hobby" perfumers, which don't actually count.

zztop: "at least in america we have freedom" wow! i dont really even know what to say here... i'm not badmouthing the nation, i love america, how do you know i've never lived there? im just saying that there is definatley an "I'll do whatever I want" epidemic and alot of nouveau riche mentality going on there. And I don't like layering.

you don't like people who don't like layering because we're closed minded idiots who are stuck in their ways and afraid to experiment

AND

i dont like people who layer because I feel that the masses shouldn't try to mess with artists creations. I respect art and I respect the skill it takes to actually create something. maybe if you were a perfumer, and you blended two ideas from fragrances to create one you really liked, thats a diferent story, but theres no way you can obtain that kind of precision from 2 spray bottles. do you have any idea of the kind of tinkering involved with creating a perfume?

anyways, which one of us is right? (well obviously me) but do you see what I'm getting at ?

So nice to lock this.
--Chris