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Major Cologne Storage Warning

post #1 of 27
8/6/06 at 8:30am
Thread Starter 
I recently had the opportunity to purchase my favorite, Mugler cologne, at bargain basement price -- $9 for 2.6oz tester. Anyway, after reviewing a number of threads on cologne storage, I thought I might try out one of the bottles I purchased in a mini fridge set to its highest temp, about 45-50 degrees. Left it in overnight to see if it would change in consistency etc. To my complete shock, this treatment almost totally inactivated the scent! The other bottles (stored at room temp) are perfect. Now, I've seen warnings about "perfume" storage in refrigerators due to the delicate oil balance, and Mugler is almost a perfume at 10%, but this scent inactivation is unbeleivable. I will be storing my stuff at room temp. from now on, that's for sure. Anyone else have a similar experience? Thoughts?
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post #2 of 27
8/6/06 at 8:53am
No experience with Mugler Cologne- I haven't sampled it, much less owned it.

When I first started my collection I stored in the fridge. Some frags stayed in there for months. When my stash grew to large it was moved to the closet.

No real negative impact either way from my experience. I will say Amen is not long lived wherever you put it. Maybe Mugler frags are set to go off at a specified time for money making opportunity.
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post #3 of 27
8/6/06 at 9:12am
  • aj
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I just purchased a bottle yesterday and left it in my mini fridge. My fridge
can be set to 80 should I set it to 60 or 65?
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post #4 of 27
8/6/06 at 9:16am
Thread Starter 
What was it stored at yesterday, and what was the effect? The only alternative explanation for my experience is that the bottle I used in the fridge had slightly less juice than the others -- less of a loss in case my experiment failed, as it appears to have done. Now, I suppose some of the juice in that particular bottle might have evaporated before I got it, but whether that would completely neutralize the scent of what remained in the bottle seems implausible, but I welcome ideas on what happened here.
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post #5 of 27
8/6/06 at 9:24am
  • aj
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the bottle is still in the box and I have my mini fridge set to 70.
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post #6 of 27
8/6/06 at 9:28am
About half a year ago I bought a fridge for my frags and all the frags I owned before this date didn´t chance since then. I made the experience tough that sometimes the frags seem to evolve better on my skin if I don´t apply them directly out of the fridge but after an hour or so at ambiance temperature. Maybe you should try this....
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post #7 of 27
8/6/06 at 9:59am
Isn't it a bit risky storing colognes in the fridge? All the ingredients will have different temperature tolerance, and so a setting which works for one could ruin the rest. Simply keeping them in the dark should be the main goal surely?
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post #8 of 27
8/6/06 at 10:05am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biffo_the_Bear

Isn't it a bit risky storing colognes in the fridge? All the ingredients will have different temperature tolerance, and so a setting which works for one could ruin the rest. Simply keeping them in the dark should be the main goal surely?


With the Mugler -- Unless someone has another explanation -- storage overnight in the fridge at a modest temp (45-50) completely ruined the cologne. It now has no fragrance whatsoever. I know this sounds unbeleivable, but its true. The other bottles bought along with the refrigerated bottle are all perfect. And, yes, it's been out of the fridge for hours now and the scent is still gone, completely!
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post #9 of 27
8/6/06 at 10:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman

I recently had the opportunity to purchase my favorite, Mugler cologne, at bargain basement price -- $9 for 2.6oz tester. Anyway, after reviewing a number of threads on cologne storage, I thought I might try out one of the bottles I purchased in a mini fridge set to its highest temp, about 45-50 degrees. Left it in overnight to see if it would change in consistency etc. To my complete shock, this treatment almost totally inactivated the scent! The other bottles (stored at room temp) are perfect. Now, I've seen warnings about "perfume" storage in refrigerators due to the delicate oil balance, and Mugler is almost a perfume at 10%, but this scent inactivation is unbeleivable. I will be storing my stuff at room temp. from now on, that's for sure. Anyone else have a similar experience? Thoughts?


what has happened to your cologne is not so strange and uncommon as it may sound; but, nevertheless, it is a thing that should not happen to a mass-market fragrance that has been tested on stability throughout! When evaluating a fragrance it is an old and approved perfumer's trick to keep a newly made frag alternately in the fridge and at room temperature for several days. this is done to age a perfume artificially for better judging the final result. so, my advice to you is to give your frag a rest at a dark, dry, cool (16-18celsius) place for at least a week, and your perfume should be restored to its original splendour!

AGAINST COMMON OPINION my advise here is to never store fragrances at very low temperatures, but to store them rather AS YOU WOULD STORE YOUR BEST RED WINES!!! when you're sure not to use them in a couple of months and rather keep them for reference purposes, STORE THEM UNDER A "NITROGEN-BLANKET"!!! nitrogen in aerosol-form should be sprayed (never hold the spray-bottle in a way that you'll get it on your perfume in its liquid form!) onto your frag in its bottle, then close the bottle imediately. this will prevent oxygen from reacting with your fragrance. by that it would also be possible to keep perfume fresh in half-emty containers for a much longer time!!!
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post #10 of 27
8/6/06 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman

I recently had the opportunity to purchase my favorite, Mugler cologne, at bargain basement price -- $9 for 2.6oz tester. Anyway, after reviewing a number of threads on cologne storage, I thought I might try out one of the bottles I purchased in a mini fridge set to its highest temp, about 45-50 degrees. Left it in overnight to see if it would change in consistency etc. To my complete shock, this treatment almost totally inactivated the scent! The other bottles (stored at room temp) are perfect. Now, I've seen warnings about "perfume" storage in refrigerators due to the delicate oil balance, and Mugler is almost a perfume at 10%, but this scent inactivation is unbeleivable. I will be storing my stuff at room temp. from now on, that's for sure. Anyone else have a similar experience? Thoughts?


I store my frags in a mini cooler and none of it has gone bad or lost its scent yet. Could you elaborate on some things that i find rather curious:
1. Where did you purchase your frags?
2. Did you test the Mugler prior to placing it in the fridge?
Alarm bells start ringing in my head because you got your mugler for dirt cheap!!! It may have been on display for a very long time, under the hot bulbs of display lamps. Heat and light probably hurt frags more than your fridge ever could. You could also have bought a dummy frag, those filled with coloured water for display purposes only? Anyway, bring it back to the shop and ask for another "tester" bottle then.
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post #11 of 27
8/6/06 at 10:45am


L'Osmothéque, Le conservatoire International des parfums, is a Versailles-based institution dedicated to that preservation of perfumes and perfume history. It was founded and is run by doyen perfumer Jean Kerléo, famous house nose of Jean Patou from 1967 to 1998 and President of La Société Française des Parfumeurs from 1976 to 1979. L'Osmothéque stores all its archived fragrances, past and present, even those dated from over a hundred years ago, in refrigerated vaults.

My good friend and fellow Basenoters pluran recently emailed the L'Osmothéque about the issue of storing fragrances in a refrigerator. This is what he learned:
Quote:
Originally Posted by pluran

Fragrance storage and preservation information has always been ambigous to me. Although there is some good information revealed in previous threads on this site, I still wasn't satisfied with any particular method.

Jean Kerleo was the house nose at Patou from 1967 until 1998. He is the founder of Osmotheque, the "living perfume museum" in Versailles.

I contacted Osmotheque to see if they could provide clarification regarding fragrance storage, temperature etc. I told them I kept my fragrances in a refrigerator. Their reply was as follows: "Exactly. This can appear strange, but you must store your perfume in the rerigerator, safe from light, and in the cold." They recommend a temperature of 10 degrees celsius for most fragrances, and 4 degrees celsius for citrus fragrances.

10° Celsius = 50° Fahrenheit
4° Celsius = 39° Fahrenheit

For me, at least, this is pretty much the last word on the subject.

scentemental

P.S. wxman, I have stored my Thierry Mugler Cologne--and all my other fragrances for that matter--in my refrigerators for over a year and a half without any problems.



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post #12 of 27
8/6/06 at 10:53am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scentemental

L'Osmothéque, Le conservatoire International des parfums, is a Versailles-based institution dedicated to that preservation of perfumes and perfume history. It was founded and is run by doyen perfumer Jean Kerléo, famous house nose of Jean Patou from 1967 to 1998 and President of The French Perfume Society from 1976 to 1979. They store all their fragrances, even those dated from over a hundred years ago, in refrigerated vaults.

My good friend and fellow Basenoters pluran recently emailed the L'Osmothéque about the issue of storing fragrances in a refrigerator. This is what he learned:


I think this is pretty much the last word on the subject.

scentemental

P.S. wxman, I have stored my Thierry Mugler Cologne--and all my other fragrances for that matter--in my refrigerators for over a year and a half without any problems.




At what temp?
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post #13 of 27
8/6/06 at 10:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman

At what temp?


Sorry, I must have accidentally posted before I included the info. It should now show up on my original post.

scentemental
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post #14 of 27
8/6/06 at 11:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scentemental



L'Osmothéque, Le conservatoire International des parfums, is a Versailles-based institution dedicated to that preservation of perfumes and perfume history. It was founded and is run by doyen perfumer Jean Kerléo, famous house nose of Jean Patou from 1967 to 1998 and President of La Société Française des Parfumeurs from 1976 to 1979. L'Osmothéque stores all its archived fragrances, past and present, even those dated from over a hundred years ago, in refrigerated vaults.

My good friend and fellow Basenoters pluran recently emailed the L'Osmothéque about the issue of storing fragrances in a refrigerator. This is what he learned:


10° Celsius = 50° Fahrenheit
4° Celsius = 39° Fahrenheit

For me at least, this is pretty much the last word on the subject.

scentemental

P.S. wxman, I have stored my Thierry Mugler Cologne--and all my other fragrances for that matter--in my refrigerators for over a year and a half without any problems.




well, scente, this the way to store perfumes for archive purposes, implying that their perfumes REMAIN THERE UNDER A GIVEN STABLE TEMPERATURE, in even more important COMPLETELY FILLED CONTAINERS. if those fragrances have to face regular change in temperatur combined with the exposition to air, refrigeration could do more harm than good to fragrances.
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post #15 of 27
8/6/06 at 12:19pm
Thread Starter 
The more I think about it, the more convinced I'm becoming that there was a problem with the bottle I put in the fridge, but the only way to find out for 100% certain is to do another test with stuff I know is good. I decanted some and will retest in the fridge.

By the way, the fridge debate aside for long-term storage, does anyone think it's even possible for a fragrance to go from good to completely scentless in less than 24 hours in the fridge? For those that say they have stored Mugler for over a year in the fridge without incident, I suppose I have my answer, but others weigh in if you see how this transformation could have happened aside from the fridge or bad bottle being the culprit.
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post #16 of 27
8/6/06 at 1:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk

well, scente, this the way to store perfumes for archive purposes, implying that their perfumes REMAIN THERE UNDER A GIVEN STABLE TEMPERATURE, in even more important COMPLETELY FILLED CONTAINERS. if those fragrances have to face regular change in temperatur combined with the exposition to air, refrigeration could do more harm than good to fragrances.


The experts were recommending that EVERYONE store their REGULARLY used fragrances in the refrigerator. If you had read the post carefully, you would have understood that this was the question pluran asked; he was not asking about archiving. Who here at Basenotes is interested in archiving their fragrances for posterity? It's really a simple proposition: what's the best way to store fragrances to maximize their shelf life. Oh, and before you say "nitrogen blanket", you might want to consider the practicality and cost of this when applied to the fragrances we all use regularly and even to the large number of bottles we put aside for storage.

Also, I have to say no one is advocating that you take your fragrances out of the refrigerator and let them come to room temperature. I certainly am not, and I can't see anywhere in my post where I said that is what one should do. When I take my fragrances out of the refrigerator for personal use, they're out for a maximum of a minute at the most. Hard to see how this constitutes facing "regular change in tempartur" or where you get this notion from. Surely, if fragrances are stored outside of a steadily controlled temperature such as what is found in a refrigerator, they are more subject to both small, medium, and large changes in temperature over the years than if they are stored in a refrigerator.

Furthermore, I don't understand what you mean by "exposition to air" and what refrigeration has to with this. If the bottle is a splash bottle, wouldn't it be subject to exposure to air every time one used it whether it was stored in a refrigerator or not? If it's a spray bottle, then it won't be subject to exposure to air whether it's in the refrigerator or not. Again, it's hard to see the relevance of your objection.

Perhaps you should take up your objections up with Monsieur Kerléo; he might have a better time understanding them than I do.

scentemental

P.S. Please don't call me "scente". I find it patronizing.
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post #17 of 27
8/6/06 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scentemental


The experts were recommending that EVERYONE store their REGULARLY used fragrances in the refrigerator. If you had read the post carefully, you would have understood that this was the question pluran asked; he was not asking about archiving. Who here at Basenotes is interested in archiving their fragrances for posterity? It's really a simple proposition: what's the best way to store fragrances to maximize their shelf life. Oh, and before you say "nitrogen blanket", you might want to consider the practicality and cost of this when applied to the fragrances we all use regularly and even to the large number of bottles we put aside for storage.

Also, I have to say no one is advocating that you take your fragrances out of the refrigerator and let them come to room temperature. I certainly am not, and I can't see anywhere in my post where I said that is what one should do. When I take my fragrances out of the refrigerator for personal use, they're out for a maximum of a minute at the most. Hard to see how this constitutes facing "regular change in tempartur" or where you get this notion from. Surely, if fragrances are stored outside of a steadily controlled temperature such as what is found in a refrigerator, they are more subject to both small, medium, and large changes in temperature over the years than if they are stored in a refrigerator.

Furthermore, I don't understand what you mean by "exposition to air" and what refrigeration has to with this. If the bottle is a splash bottle, wouldn't it be subject to exposure to air every time one used it whether it was stored in a refrigerator or not? If it's a spray bottle, then it won't be subject to exposure to air whether it's in the refrigerator or not. Again, it's hard to see the relevance of your objection.

Perhaps you should take up your objections up with Monsieur Kerléo; he might have a better time understanding them than I do.

scentemental

P.S. Please don't call me "scente". I find it patronizing.

Good grief scento, someone got out of the wrong side of bed today.

I still take issue with the concept of refridgerating scents insofar that Kerleo's method might be fine for, as you say, archiving purposes and also short term storage given that the scent might run out rather quickly if it is one of your favourite ones. However, just because it stores well by this method doesn't mean it'll sit well skin-wise (upon application, NOT letting the scent come to room temperature and then applying), after all, the rapid ascension of temperature gradient upon application will play cheeky-monkeys with the chemistry of any given scent, whereas upon room-temperature application, there is less chance of scent corruption due to the lesser exothermic effect being placed upon the scent which has just been applied.
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post #18 of 27
8/6/06 at 3:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scentemental




P.S. Please don't call me "scente". I find it patronizing.


LOL! That comment was so snobby, it might have come from Mr. Olivier Creed himself
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post #19 of 27
8/6/06 at 5:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biffo_the_Bear

Good grief scento, someone got out of the wrong side of bed today.

I still take issue with the concept of refridgerating scents insofar that Kerleo's method might be fine for, as you say, archiving purposes and also short term storage given that the scent might run out rather quickly if it is one of your favourite ones. However, just because it stores well by this method doesn't mean it'll sit well skin-wise (upon application, NOT letting the scent come to room temperature and then applying), after all, the rapid ascension of temperature gradient upon application will play cheeky-monkeys with the chemistry of any given scent, whereas upon room-temperature application, there is less chance of scent corruption due to the lesser exothermic effect being placed upon the scent which has just been applied.

Wow, I'm so impressed. This sounds so, so scientific, I am afraid it's way out of my league: "rapid ascension of temperature gradients" and "lesser exothermic effect"; it's obvious I am talking to a real expert here.

First of all, I didn't say Kerléo's method is only fine for archiving purposes. If you read both posts carefully, the people at L'Osmothéque recommend it as the way to store fragrances separate from any efficacy such storage has for long term storage.

What I will say is that I have over 430 different fragrances that I keep in refrigeration. I haven't noticed any difference at all between fragrances when sprayed right out of the refrigerator or from a room temperature bottle, but then I am not a scientist like you, so what do I know. Besides if there were a difference, how long would it last, a couple of seconds, five minutes? Maybe refrigeration alters the fragrance at a submolecular level too. Wow, I never thought of that. I know you scientist types see into the heart of things, so thanks Biff for the science lesson. I'll try to convince myself every time I spray some cologne on me to take into account the "rapid ascension of temperature gradients" and "lesser exothermic effect" and maybe one day I'll have a deep appreciation of fragrances and chemistry like you. Again, many thanks for the enlightenment your post provides and for the profound exposition of the principles involved in the correct storage of fragrances, and, oh, my deepest apologies for my beknighted posts.

scentemental
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post #20 of 27
8/6/06 at 6:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman

The more I think about it, the more convinced I'm becoming that there was a problem with the bottle I put in the fridge, but the only way to find out for 100% certain is to do another test with stuff I know is good. I decanted some and will retest in the fridge.

So, i'm guessing that you didn't test the Mugler prior to putting it in the fridge?
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post #21 of 27
8/6/06 at 6:25pm
Thread Starter 
I tested one of the bottles, but I can't remember if it was the one I fridge tested. The decanted product in the new "controlled" test seems just fine as of now. At this point I have to believe it was a bad bottle as I don't see how 24hrs of refrigeration could cause a scent to totally lose any trace of fragrance. I'll report back if there are any more surprises.
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post #22 of 27
8/6/06 at 7:38pm
Well, 45 to 50 degrees F is not a low temperature. I know I get lower overnight temperatures than that during winter where I live - and I'm not always home with the heater on.

My bottle of Mugler Cologne hasn't gone awry in the manner you describe, despite being subjected to at least several nights of such temperatures.
Renato
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post #23 of 27
8/6/06 at 7:49pm
This needs to remain on topic.
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post #24 of 27
8/6/06 at 7:49pm
This topic does come up a great deal, and if I remember correctly, Michael Edwards stores all of his in refrigerators. In addition, while I haven't been to the Barney's in New York or LA, I think it was Serpent who once mentioned that Barney's in LA stores all of their Malle scents in refrigerators.
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post #25 of 27
8/7/06 at 12:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scentemental

Wow, I'm so impressed. This sounds so, so scientific, I am afraid it's way out of my league: "rapid ascension of temperature gradients" and "lesser exothermic effect"; it's obvious I am talking to a real expert here.

First of all, I didn't say Kerléo's method is only fine for archiving purposes. If you read both posts carefully, the people at L'Osmothéque recommend it as the way to store fragrances separate from any efficacy such storage has for long term storage.

What I will say is that I have over 430 different fragrances that I keep in refrigeration. I haven't noticed any difference at all between fragrances when sprayed right out of the refrigerator or from a room temperature bottle, but then I am not a scientist like you, so what do I know. Besides if there were a difference, how long would it last, a couple of seconds, five minutes? Maybe refrigeration alters the fragrance at a submolecular level too. Wow, I never thought of that. I know you scientist types see into the heart of things, so thanks Biff for the science lesson. I'll try to convince myself every time I spray some cologne on me to take into account the "rapid ascension of temperature gradients" and "lesser exothermic effect" and maybe one day I'll have a deep appreciation of fragrances and chemistry like you. Again, many thanks for the enlightenment your post provides and for the profound exposition of the principles involved in the correct storage of fragrances, and, oh, my deepest apologies for my beknighted posts.

scentemental

In that case I stand corrected Having never stored a cologne in a fridge I felt the need to question it from a scientific point of view but if, as you say, all your experiences of doing so are fine, then good! You never learn unless you question
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post #26 of 27
8/7/06 at 3:16am
As for Mugler Cologne - I had a bottle for 6 months and then gave it to my friend - he keeps it in the trunk of his car. He's had this bottle for maybe 2 years now (minus afew months) - Anyways the temp their goes from minus 20 degrees celisus to over 40 degrees celisus from winter to summer - anyways - I tried in about 2 weeks ago and it still smells good.
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post #27 of 27
8/7/06 at 5:56am
I can't think of any reason why refrigeration - especially refrigeration to a point above freezing! - would have any long-term effect on aromachemicals, and I have yet to see any explanation in this thread why it would, except that temperature change (in a low and relatively narrow range) must be BAD somehow.
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