Do you guys ever get pissed when...

Would you feel better if they said AFTERSHAVE instead?

I don't mind what they say. I refer to my collection as perfume quite often. I'm not too bothered by the terminology of the whole thing. I'm just hoping they end up saying it smells good. To me perfume = cologne. Either way they are taking notice and are intrigued. I'm more interested in that aspect of someone asking about my bodily scent.

Actually technically it is perfume. Perfume doesn't have to mean something feminine or what women wear. We tend to call it cologne when men wear but what about something that is unisex, would you call it a perfume or cologne or just fragrance?

Heres a definition of "perfume"

Perfume is a mixture of fragrant essential oils and aroma compounds, fixatives, and solvents used to give the human body, objects, and living spaces a pleasant smell. The amount and type of solvent mix with the fragrance oil dictates whether a perfume is considered a perfume extract, Eau de parfum, Eau de toilette, or Eau de Cologne.


So yes I do wear perfume!

I look them square in the eye and say "Chanel No. 5"

Lol not really..

99% of the population doesn't know absolutely anything to do with the details and information on fragrance beyond the names of a few brands and how it smells.

It's like getting mad at someone for not knowing some sort of technical term with regards to a subject you can't expect them to be experts on.

I never hear people say what perfume are you wearing though, it's always been men's stuff = cologne, women's stuff = perfume.

I find it slightly annoying. I'd rather they say cologne or fragrance.

"fragrance" just always feels kind of pretentious to me, like referring to Van Gogh's paintings as his "oeuvre" or Shakespeare's plays as his "canon." I much prefer "stink-juice." That's just me though.

James Fenimore Cooper - who hated European arrogance, but loved its culture and disdained what he viewed as US provincialism - would say that the American use of the term cologne is a typical American misappropriation and confusion of European concepts . Neither is it from Cologne, nor is it Eau de Cologne, it is, properly, men's perfume or Eau de Toilette. Of course, he even got all worked up about Americans saying CUcumber instead of the proper, i.e. British, cuCUMber and considered this a threat to republicanism. I tell you, intellectual history is a fascinating field to be working in

Personally I can't help but associate the atrocious 4711 with the word cologne - childhood trauma. Well, now that I've tried alot of really decent Eau de Colognes I'm getting over that, but to me cologne is indeed Eau de Cologne.

In any event, I'd be happy if people even noticed I was wearing perfume.

Yeah, when people ask me what "cologne" or "aftershave" I'm wearing, I have to restrain myself from spitting back: "F*#% off, I am not wearing brut!" (Or Old Spice, or Blue Stratos etc. etc.).

I agree with acehimself -- most of the American public still call all men's scents "aftershave" -- they can't really be expected to know perfume from eau de parfume from eau de toilette from eau de cologne. Oh, and at least they meant well.

That said, I just answer them with the name of the fragrance and keep right on plugging. A tutorial always sounds patronizing, and most don't want to be bothered with the info anyway.

Man alive I know exactly what you guys mean, Thrax! I just plain hate it when people ask me about my "cologne"! I hate it when they use that term, as if I'm scared to call my stuff perfume, jeez. I'm not--heck, it's just words and trying to talk about stuff in our world.

Actually, I have the opposite problem: People ask me what cologne I am wearing, and I need to be able to tell them that it's a perfume without sounding pretentious.

American society has made it hard for men to talk about perfumes, eaux de toilette, and colognes without sounding nerdy, gay, trans, or just crazy. Maybe I tell a friend that I just received my new eau de toilette and a new perfume: they are undoubtedly thinking that I bought a 'guy' perfume and a 'girl' perfume.

Add to that the (personal) belief that all scents are, at their core, unisex anyways.... I've had some frustrating conversations where my brain starts to smoke from the cognitive dissonance-
"Yes, it's a perfume. No, it's not a woman's perfume just because it's called a perfume. And also, there really isn't any such thing as a 'woman's' perfume, because scents are genderless. And Yes, this is a male fragrance"


it's enough to make me keep my mouth shut about the subject.


-ben

I love this thread...it's like the old soda vs. pop debate...

Heh. I have honestly never had it called that. However, in my line of work, with all the burly, friggin' hairy chested manly men I have had it refered to as "Foo Foo Powder".

Ok, I'm sorry that I don't smell like aged arm pit, or a bucket full of anus.

Friggin' macho morons.

Agreed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrax
For the record it's pop.





:::::mumbling under her breath::::::: it's soda

I have to agree with GraySwan.....it's soda. Or at least I SAY it's soda.

Well, I agree with the_good_life. In Brazil, both men and women use the term "Perfume" (It doesn't matter if It's an Eau de Cologne, Toillette or Parfum).
But actually Cologne always reminds people here of some cheap fragrance or aftershave. (brut, adidas etc.)
Personally I used to think the term cologne was related to an Eau de Cologne.

When I'm talking about a frag marketed toward men I say cologne, when I'm talking about a frag marketed toward women, I say perfume. It's mainly for my audience's benefit because that's how the majority of my friends know them as.

Perfume, of course! Personally...I don't care what they call it...as long as they tell me I smell yummy.

I'd rather hear "Oh my, your cologne is delicious" as opposed to... "Damn, woman! Your perfume is a total stinkah!"

VERY good point!

::::::arguing with GraySwan "its Pop"::::::::::::

Surely by the above logic, it isn't perfume, it's eau de toilette. Men mostly wear eau de toilette strength frags, and women mostly wear eau de parfum or parfum strength frags.

I think though that, regardless of the technicalities, the convention (in the US, Britain and Australia) is to call a frag that is worn by men a cologne and a frag that is worn by women a perfume. That is why it is intentionally or unintentionally insulting to ask a man what perfume he is wearing: you are implicitly calling him a sissy, saying that he is wearing something meant for women. It would be like pointing to a man's trousers and saying "I like your coullotts" (or however the hell they are spelled).

I'm not saying this is right, but social conventions can be more inflexible than iron bars sometimes and they can be the most inflexible when they are apparently the most silly

cheers

Eluard

there was a time when that would have bothered me but not any more. people usually just tell me i smell good and ask the name of it. they rarely use a specific designation.

cologne? after shave? fragrance? i prefer perfume.

from the Latin per fumum, perfume means "through smoke". it's neither masuline nor feminine.

::::::arguing with GraySwan "its Pop"::::::::::::
__________________
Vijay"Maisonstinky"


Ok....where are all my Soda commrades? We're getting out numbered here. And, I don't want to hear a word from any of you weird "tonic" people either.

In response to Eluard, sure, it's a socially accepted misconception, but if anyone is going to change the terms back to the actual, technical usage, it is going to be us fragrance snobs. It's useless to take something as an insult unless it was intended as one, especially when the speaker was using a correct term in the first place.

And Thrax, if you're going to be a pedant about it, at least look up the meaning of the term before you get your panties in a twist. "Cologne," darling, refers to a specific strength of fragrance or a city in Germany. "Perfume" is a term that houses all fragrance, which also can be used to refer specifically to "perfume" or "parfum" strength fragrance, and even, generally, just the odor of something.

And it's freakin' soda.

Actually the definition I posted said that eau de toilette, eau de parfum, parfum, etc are all considered perfumes. So what men and women wear can both be considered perfumes.

oh and it's soda pop!

LOL !!! oh yeah is it bottled or in a can? God we can go on and on with this.

You guys keep this up , I will bring in a group of carbonated liquid lovers .

Yeah, if you're referring to Pony Boy's brother!

I'm interested to know where you came up with this because I think it's absolute rubbish.

The whole 'is it cologne or perfume' thing is just due to people being misinformed. Before I came to Basenotes, I used to also think that "cologne is for men and perfume is for women," though that is hardly the case. AZsmells is right, they are ALL perfumes - only in different concentrations.

I don't get pissed if people ask about my "perfume." Quite frankly, I don't care. If they make any comment at all, I'm glad. I like to know what people think about the fragrance I'm wearing - whether their comments are positive OR negative. I just like knowing. What does kinda bug me, however, is when people say "What perfume are you wearing? - oops, I meant, cologne." I know they only correct themselves so to not offend me but it's bothersome because it just perpetuates the whole 'perfume is for females' thing. If I am, indeed, wearing a perfume, I tell them. The last time someone made a similar comment, I was wearing Serge Lutens Ambre Sultan. I straight up told them that it's not a cologne, it's a perfume, I briefly explained the misunderstanding of the term and the concentration differences of cologne and perfume, and then told them what I was wearing. I hope they learned something.

Usually if people ask me how they should inquire about someone's fragrance, I tell them not to use the terms 'cologne' or 'perfume' (as some people that are obviously misinformed might get offended) but instead to ask about their 'fragrance.'

No, it's because your upper lip stinks.

What do you want? You throw some juvenile, potty-humor insult at me and you want me to bother to come up with original material? Besides, it's a classic.

This thread has long since degenerated into complete idiocy. Go back, read what I read carefully, and then post. I'm not interested in half-assed misunderstandings.

I don't see how my comment was a "half-assed misunderstanding", as you like to put it. I went back. I read what you wrote. Carefully. You clearly wrote that men wear EdT and women wear EdP. I'd like to see some evidence to back this claim up.

It's in my belief that women wear EdT just as much as men do. I'm making this claim because if you walk into any fragrance store, the average concentration for fragrances is EdT for both men and women. It is the most popular and wide-spread concentration that fragrance houses use. I also believe that many people will agree with me on this.

Why would I get annoyed? It is perfume.
Renato

I love cologne.

or is it perfume...

I agree. And I also agree with a comment earlier that it's just good to get a comment - any comment - on how you smell. (Preferably nice, of course.)

I also occasionally take the time to explain to some people who are more willing to listen about the difference between "edc" & "edp", and what, technically, I am wearing on any given day.

QE

To me it's "perfume". The first time I read "cologne" for men's perfume was on the "Cologne Guy" website (which was more or less the precursor of Basenotes). I assumed he knew everything about 4711.

In The Netherlands many people refer to it either as "aftershave" or "eau de cologne", presumably for the same reason that the term "cologne" is used in the US. It's what the majority of men used until about 20 years ago. The difference is that in The Netherlands, people don't ask you what aftershave you wear anyway. They couldn't care less. So there's nothing for me to get pissed about.

Thrax, what cologne where you wearing?

Retroactively I am sorry for Fennimore Cooper having believed there was a 'concept'. The dilemma we all share has grown in an odd but natural way. It also has to do with the democratisation of perfume. Maybe one day scientists will sort out that mess. Yes, Eau de Toilette would be the better term for 'scented' Eau de Cologne which has had 1001 places of origin as opposed to original Eau from Cologne (Colonia/Köln/Coelln) which is citrussy during application, but does not serve the purpose of transferring a prominent odor to the wearer. Men's perfume is fine also, but these days perhaps a tread mine when things like Mitsouko, Bandit, or Carnal Flower are involved.

As to 'getting pissed...' - why does that feeling come up? We feel a bit on the defensive, don't we? One for wearing 'female', another for wearing 'uniscent' when 'masculine' would be safer, a third for wearing something masculine yet bold. We all have contradicting aims - we want to be ourselves, and yet not too obviously different from whoever we like to be around to. This duality also determines how we dress.

Somebody yesterday mentioned that there are still men who may add 'I got that from my wife' when asked what they are wearing. The need to find an apology for wearing a lady's perfume is known even from C. Burr. In our little universe, I remember the crossdresser thread having had a record number of visitors in April. To get a broader and free minded view on the matter, I think it would be helpful to know more about men using scented oils in different societies and about men's perfumes or colognes, ointments etc. in history.

I know I have already entered my post which stays true to the topic, but you guys are having too much fun with this soda vs. pop debate. Lol.

Here in the south it's called "Coke", plain and simple. When you're asked what type of soft drink you'd like it usually goes something like this; "Hey, what kinda coke ya want?" "Ahh, just bring a Dr. Pepper". I'm not kidding either. Lol.

Agreed - ironically it's mainly oils not smoke that goes into perfume
The original Eau de Colognes, like Farina (and according to Wikipedia also 4711) contain more than 5% of essential oils, and are, technically speaking, Eau de Toilettes. As I mentioned before, our usual terms for juice are a total Babylon. That does not even include the perfume worlds of Italy, Spain, Germany, and - last not least - France! But decisive the the current use and meaning. People never ask, because it's considered a personal matter what someone wears. At any rate nobody would ask a man questions about his perfume, unless he means trouble! 'Cologne' is the standard term and people think of a French pour Homme or an Italian Uomo.

They always say cologne to me. My overt masculinity prevails.

You must look like a woman, Jesse. JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(ducks for cover)