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Fonds de parfum - What are they for?

post #1 of 26
11/2/06 at 4:14am
Thread Starter 
Hello community!

Half a year ago I won an ebay auction. I was to get Douce Amère (Serge Lutens). But I didn't read carefully enough - it was a "FDP" (not the German party, though...) instead of being an "EDP" (which I had expected). Now that winter has come I reach more often for this fragrance.

But concerning "Fond de parfum" I have a bunch of question which I'd like to adress to those who are experienced with the topic.

- What does "FDP" mean, what i s it? There have to be differences between FDP and EDP (e.g. concering concentration) -
but which?
- Is the "FDP" of Douce Amère a worthy substitution for the EDP or should I get the latter (which to me seems to be
rather "the real thing")?
- What about longevity and sillage (compared to the EDP)?
- Do you know any other company except Serge Lutens that sells "FDP"?

I appreciate your answers. Thanks in anticipation.
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post #2 of 26
11/2/06 at 4:50am
I'll give you a little push because I'm also interested in finding out what this FDP is all about.
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post #3 of 26
11/2/06 at 5:06am
The SL fonds de parfums are a kind of scented alcool-free lotion meant to extend the duration of the related edp. I don't know much more. I thought they were discontinued.
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post #4 of 26
11/2/06 at 5:10am
Gentlemen: I don't know either. But search 'fond,parfum' produced this, plus more occurances:
http://community.basenotes.net/showt...ht=fond+parfum

Cartier also has an FdP.

Could the non-alcoholic version be the one designed for sale in Arabic countries ?
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post #5 of 26
11/2/06 at 7:02am
I have a bottle of both Ambre Sultan and Douce Amere in Fond de Parfum. Last year they were still for sale in the Netherlands and in the UK. Not sure about other countries. As far as I know they were only made for the first five (or six?) eaux de parfum Lutens made for export. They were intended to serve as a base before you applied the real eau de parfum, to make the scent last longer and enhance it. They called it a 'pre-parfum'. And to be honest: it was just not a very good idea. Because they were cheaper, people bought them mostly for that reason, instead of layering them. I use my FdP's on their own in summertime when certainly Ambre Sultan is a bit too heavy, and because there is no alcohol in them.

Seems I have forgotten some questions:
"Is the "FDP" of Douce Amère a worthy substitution for the EDP or should I get the latter (which to me seems to be
rather "the real thing")?"
The real thing is better in my opinion, but for summertime a FdP can be very efficient.

- What about longevity and sillage (compared to the EDP)?
Compared to de EDP, a FDP is considerably weaker. Ambre Sultan lasts a decent time , but the sillage is not as good as the EDP. Douce Amere certainly does not last as long as the EDP and has no sillage at all (on me anyhow)

- Do you know any other company except Serge Lutens that sells "FDP"?
Really NO idea. Sorry!
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post #6 of 26
11/2/06 at 11:28am
I own Ambre Sultan FDP. What I heard and what I can confirm is that FDP is everything what the EDP is, but without the alcohol. I also own Ambre Sultan EDP and I don't see a difference in notes, sillage or longevity. FDP is basically EDP without alcohol. That's it. For me it doesn't make any sense to own both. I had to get both, because I was curious about the difference. Still I don't know Ambre Sultan Fresh ....
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post #7 of 26
11/2/06 at 10:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.creed

I own Ambre Sultan FDP. What I heard and what I can confirm is that FDP is everything what the EDP is, but without the alcohol.

Very interesting. I just had to test again and went to bed with FDP on one arm and EDP on the other. Both applied dabbing, since the FDP comes without spray. Even wrote down which arm was wearing FDP, to avoid confusion. This morning: a very, very faint smell coming from the FDP (nose pressed to arm) but still a lovely smell from the EDP. Do you think this is the case of the mysterious bodychemistry?
There is only one thing that amazed me: if the amount of perfume oil in FDP really would be the same as in the EDT, why on earth is the FDP sold at a much cheaper price? It can't be the alcohol that makes the EDP pricier? And..why did Lutens made these two with the intention to layer?
Well, we seem to have a little mystery here.
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post #8 of 26
11/2/06 at 11:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riannon

if the amount of perfume oil in FDP really would be the same as in the EDT, why on earth is the FDP sold at a much cheaper price? It can't be the alcohol that makes the EDP pricier?

Well perfumers alcohol Ã*s a lot more expensive than glycerol and water
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post #9 of 26
11/3/06 at 12:06am
I suppose Lutens Fragrances are exported also to countries which are predominantly, or partly Muslimic. Naturally, these will be oil based fragrances and not colognes. Does anybody know what they are called, if not Fond de Parfum? Lutens are not the only French company that has FDPs in their line.

It is evident that an excess of production (based on wrong sales estimates) must somehow be disposed of. In this case via e-trade in Europe. This might be less damaging to the markets the product had originally been intended for.
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post #10 of 26
11/3/06 at 2:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcus

I suppose Lutens Fragrances are exported also to countries which are predominantly, or partly Muslimic. Naturally, these will be oil based fragrances and not colognes. Does anybody know what they are called, if not Fond de Parfum? Lutens are not the only French company that has FDPs in their line.

It is evident that an excess of production (based on wrong sales estimates) must somehow be disposed of. In this case via e-trade in Europe. This might be less damaging to the markets the product had originally been intended for.

Maybe I don't understand you correctly (English is not my first language) but as far as I know Muslimic countries are used also to alcohol based fragrances. They are not allowed to drink it, but certainly they can wear it. Think Amouage, MPG's Soir d'Orient (was only for sale in the Middle-East). Furthermore, when Serge Lutens released his first export bottles of EDP, they ALL came with the complementing FDP. So, no disposal of goods for Muslimic countries at all. It was just a 'layering' idea from Serge, but it turned out to be a failure. The following export scents came without their FDP 'sisters'.
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post #11 of 26
11/3/06 at 4:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riannon

Maybe I don't understand you correctly (English is not my first language) but as far as I know Muslimic countries are used also to alcohol based fragrances. They are not allowed to drink it, but certainly they can wear it. Think Amouage, MPG's Soir d'Orient (was only for sale in the Middle-East)...

In connection with some Chanels on oil basis (Ebay) I learned that French firms ship some of their lines on oil basis to Arabic countries. I do not know which, but it was more than just one country that seemed to have banned the import of fragrances containing alcohol. Maybe others have no problem, or a gap exists between regulations and practice. With 40 C and higher temperatures, oil based fragrances seem more desirable in Near East areas. But as an oustider, I should not be speculating!
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post #12 of 26
11/3/06 at 4:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcus

In connection with some Chanels on oil basis (Ebay) I learned that French firms ship some of their lines on oil basis to Arabic countries. I do not know which, but it was more than just one country that seemed to have banned the import of fragrances containing alcohol. Maybe others have no problem, or a gap exists between regulations and practice. With 40 C and higher temperatures, oil based fragrances seem more desirable in Near East areas. But as an oustider, I should not be speculating!

Thanks Narcus, extra information is always welcome. Never heard of those Chanels Ah, learning all the time! And, are we not all (well almost all) outsiders? Maybe that is what makes Basenotes a great place
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post #13 of 26
11/3/06 at 6:25am
We have friends in Dubai and/or Quatar and other places, I believe. If we are lucky, they see this and will bless us with their input also.
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post #14 of 26
11/3/06 at 12:19pm
Here a very small thread about Fond de Parfum from the end of July this year.

http://community.basenotes.net/showt...highlight=Fond

edit: sorry, double post. Has already been posted by narcus.
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post #15 of 26
11/3/06 at 10:28pm
I received a samp from a B'noter here from a "pre-perfume" by MPG that was supposed to enhance and intensify ANY MPG scent. I haven't tried it yet so can't speak for its effectiveness or usefulness.
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post #16 of 26
11/4/06 at 1:08am
Latest update I checked at the Serge Lutens counter. Since last year they don't sell FdP anymore in the Netherlands (did not sell very well), but the SA was quite certain it was not totally discontinued. It should be possible to buy in Paris at least. Another fact she was very certain about was the concentration of perfume oil: Eau de Parfum: 15 % - Fond de Parfum: 5%!!
So, the rather large difference in price is hereby explained. She also was very sure that the FdP was not made only for use in Arabic countries. Serge wanted the FdP to be used as a kind of 'bodylotion': there is an emolient ingredient in it. You have to apply it by hand on your body after showering, like you would do with a body milk (after that you apply the EDP). The fact that it sometimes felt 'sticky' on me was caused by 'using too much' (story of my life).
Well, the woman has worked for Shiseido/Serge Lutens for fifteen years, so I think I will believe her
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post #17 of 26
11/4/06 at 2:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riannon

Latest update ... Serge wanted the FdP to be used as a kind of 'bodylotion': there is an emolient ingredient in it. You have to apply it by hand on your body after showering, like you would do with a body milk (after that you apply the EDP). The fact that it sometimes felt 'sticky' on me was caused by 'using too much' (story of my life).
Well, the woman has worked for Shiseido/Serge Lutens for fifteen years, so I think I will believe her

That's like first hand info! Thank you, Riannon. I like it when all our efforts have a good result! You do not happen to know what kind of oil that may be? I'm asking while my experiments with applying lotion, oil, or skin cream on spots I then spray seem to be satosfactory. I think, jojoba oil leaves the least noticable film on my arms. Now I do not feel 'greased' and white shirts will not get spots. My purpose to increase longevity seems to be achieved. Disclaimer: I am one who still believes in heavy Hi-Fi cables with golden plugs.
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post #18 of 26
11/5/06 at 3:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcus

You do not happen to know what kind of oil that may be? ... Now I do not feel 'greased' and white shirts will not get spots. My purpose to increase longevity seems to be achieved. Disclaimer: I am one who still believes in heavy Hi-Fi cables with golden plugs.

Sorry, I haven't the foggiest idea. It is possible that it was mentioned on the boxes, but I don't have those anymore. It sounds like something Luca Turin would know But if you are worried about spots on white shirts, I certainly would be careful with the Ambre Sultan because of the high dose of colour. Not something your skin will absorb (at least, I hope it don't!).

For those interested in FdP: I 'advanced Googled' it and saw gift boxes of 'Le Baiser du Dragon (Cartier) which contained FdP as well.
This sleuth hopes this is enough information for now?
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post #19 of 26
11/5/06 at 3:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcus

Disclaimer: I am one who still believes in heavy Hi-Fi cables with golden plugs.

Absolutely! And Linn turntables and Naim amplifiers. (But if Linn made a fragrance, what the hell would it smell like?)
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post #20 of 26
11/5/06 at 4:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluard

Absolutely! And Linn turntables and Naim amplifiers. (But if Linn made a fragrance, what the hell would it smell like?)

No doubt: DK Black Cashmere
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post #21 of 26
11/5/06 at 10:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcus

Gentlemen: I don't know either. But search 'fond,parfum' produced this, plus more occurances:
http://community.basenotes.net/showt...ht=fond+parfum

Cartier also has an FdP.

Could the non-alcoholic version be the one designed for sale in Arabic countries ?

muslim arabs cant drink alcohol, they are however allowed to apply it to their skin...
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post #22 of 26
11/5/06 at 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluard

Absolutely! And Linn turntables and Naim amplifiers. (But if Linn made a fragrance, what the hell would it smell like?)

Ah, but that's High-End, not been my class, sorry! No question what it would smell like - the glitter on C.Burr's shoes!
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post #23 of 26
11/5/06 at 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by barfbarf

muslim arabs cant drink alcohol, they are however allowed to apply it to their skin...

Narcus/Riannon - The correct word would be Islamic country . A Muslim is a person who follows the religion of Islam.
Re Barfbarf : Any Muslim (not just an Arab) isn't allowed to drink alcohol (its a different matter that some do) unless its for medicinal purpose. As for skin application as well as application on clothes, since the alcohol isn't meant to be consumed, its permissible. Of course if you're attending prayers/praying, its preferable not to have perfume with alcohol in it. I think that attars and perfume oils without alcohol in them are more in demand/preference around here and in the middle east for people who pray regularly.
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post #24 of 26
11/5/06 at 7:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riannon

No doubt: DK Black Cashmere

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcus

Ah, but that's High-End, not been my class, sorry! No question what it would smell like - the glitter on C.Burr's shoes!


Linn pour Femme and Sondek pour Homme top notes of sizzling citrus and basenotes of Isobarik depth and depravity, for the roué in everyone. Only 12,000 GBP for a 6 Ohm decant, 20,000 GBPs for a full 12 Ohm bottle.

"A clean upper end with great fullness and longevity in the base. Enough sillage to scare your neighbours into moving to Iceland." CB ("radio") in the HI-FI News.

"Be pour, be Linn."
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post #25 of 26
11/5/06 at 9:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK3D

Narcus/Riannon - The correct word would be Islamic country . A Muslim is a person who follows the religion of Islam.

You are absolutely right and I should have remembered
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post #26 of 26
11/6/06 at 4:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluard

"A clean upper end with great fullness and longevity in the base. Enough sillage to scare your neighbours into moving to Iceland." — CB ("radio") in the HI-FI News.
"Be pour, be Linn."

Genious !
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