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chypre vs. oriental vs. fougere

post #1 of 11
12/19/06 at 5:23am
Thread Starter 
I am still a bit "stuck" on chypre. I thought classic chypres were, for example, Chanel No. 5. Something rich with aldehydes and having that distinct fumey thing about them. But then as far as what notes they contain, sometimes I have a difficult time knowing if something's an oriental or a chypre. Throw in other woody/mossy/ferny scents and the category of Fougere (is that another way of saying "green"? I think of it as ferny/wet woody) and it becomes a bit more confusing.

Anyone have a way of explaining the boundaries between these scent classes?

This post was inspired by the sniff & scent post r.e. Orientals.
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post #2 of 11
12/19/06 at 6:15am
OK, shall do my best.

Chypre: True chypres originate from the Coty's groundbreaking perfume Chypre de Coty, which featured the distinct bergamot / oakmoss / patchouli / labdanum accord. These notes among others are typical of the natural scents native to the island of Cyprus (particularly the mossy woods).
So to recognise a traditional chypre look for those that feature a citrus / fruity top note (usually featuring bergamot) over a woody oakmoss / patchouli base. There are subdivisions within the family including green, leather, fruity, floral, animalic). Classic Chypres = Guerlain Mitsouko (fruity), Rochas Femme (fruity), Jean Patou Colony (fruity), Carven Ma Griffe (floral), Guerlain Chant D'Aromes (floral), Chanel No.19 (leather floral), Dior Miss Dior (leather), Paloma Picasso Mon Parfum (green), Gres Cabochard (leather, floral-animalic).

Fougere: This term is the french for 'fern-like' and is actually a fantasy note as ferns do not have a scent. The term is used to describe herbaceous mossy evoke the scent of a fern covered forest floor. This type of blend features notes such as sage, rosemary, lavender, basil, thyme with citrus (bergamot, lemon) high notes and a smooth woody base. It is easy to see how the lines are blurred but fougeres do not usually feature the incensy / ambery base of a traditional chypre. Classic Fougeres = Crown Perfumery Crown Fougere, Guerlain Jicky, Penhaligons English Fern, Paco Rabanne for Men.

Oriental: Personally, I see these perfumes as those that evoke the Orient through the use of traditional notes such as patchouli, amber, spice (vanilla, nutmeg, cinnamon), incense (frankincense (olibanum), myrrh) and exotic resins / balsams. They are deep, powerful, sensual and seductive. This covers an awful lot of ground these days, expecially with the huge sub-category of floral orientals (florientals). Classic Orientals = Dana Tabu, Must de Cartier, Dior Poison, YSL Opium, Estee Lauder Youth Dew, Serge Lutens Ambre Sultan, Serge Lutens Arabie, Caron Poivre.

I do hope this helps.
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post #3 of 11
12/19/06 at 6:23am
Take a look at this poster.
http://www.leffingwell.com/h%26rfrag...ie_feminin.pdf

And look up your favorites or the different categories in Michael Edwards classification base.
http://www.fragrancedirectory.info/u...leContacts.asp

One must have a firm grasp of the categorization of perfumes before going one step further, it is exceedingly important.
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post #4 of 11
12/19/06 at 7:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by purplebird7

Take a look at this poster.
http://www.leffingwell.com/h%26rfrag...ie_feminin.pdf

And look up your favorites or the different categories in Michael Edwards classification base.
http://www.fragrancedirectory.info/u...leContacts.asp

One must have a firm grasp of the categorization of perfumes before going one step further, it is exceedingly important.

Wow, that poster is wonderful! Thanks for posting the link purplebird7
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post #5 of 11
12/19/06 at 7:55am
Thread Starter 
thank you so much Moondeva and Purplebird!
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post #6 of 11
12/21/06 at 5:20am
Thread Starter 
Yesterday I received an order which included a phalanx of samples thanks to a very generous BNer. After smelling Guerlain Jicky and L'Artisan Passage D'Enfer, I think I am one step closer to understanding chypre.

Is it possible that those frags that smell like nothing else, that are abstract (like Jicky, Passage, etc) are chypres?

I know chypre is associated with a very indepedent/iconoclastic/eccentric personality, usually cerebral, perhaps a bit detached. Are these abstract, unusual, and odd frags like the above always chypres? What is it in the chypre family that makes this class of fragrances seem so different from the florals, orientals, and greens?

When I smelled Jicky, I was totally blown away. I thought "is this my HG?" Going back to the "women wearing men's frags" discussion, where we are talking about how fragrance carries a powerful subliminal association, and choosing not to wear frag is choosing to not use a communication method, I'm wondering if chypres aren't really the ones for me. That sense of mystery, refracted light (almost like a hall of mirrors), serenity, and balance, while smelling like nothing else around has a powerful subliminal impact on ME and makes me feel the way I need and want to be feeling right now.

<-- full of questions right now. these frags sure have a way of getting inside of you!
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post #7 of 11
12/21/06 at 6:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mochi227

After smelling Guerlain Jicky and L'Artisan Passage D'Enfer, I think I am one step closer to understanding chypre.

Is it possible that those frags that smell like nothing else, that are abstract (like Jicky, Passage, etc) are chypres?

Sorry, mochi227, neither of these are chypres. Passage D'Enfer is classed as Woody Oriental, which smells of smooth white woods, incense and spice (notes: Aloe, Incense, White Lily, Myrrh, Frankincense, White Musk, Benzoin). A very haunting, unique blend.

Jicky is classed as Vanilla Oriental or Semi-Oriental Herbaceous, I tend to think of it as a Fougere Oriental, It starts out herbaceous and fougere in the top and heart notes but the complex woods , incense and vanilla draw the blend into the realm of oriental. (Notes: Lemon, Bergamot, Mandarin, Rosewood, Lavender, Mint, Verbena, Sweet Marjoram, Thyme Rosemary, Linalool, New Mown Hay, Sandalwood, Amber, Musk, Civet, Vanillin, Tonka Bean). Another haunting, evocative blend.

You are right that they they are both cerebral scents that 'get inside your head' and, love 'em or hate 'em, are truly unforgettable.

I think your preference at the moment is towards clean smooth incensy woods. May I recommend that you search out a few of the following perfumes and see how you get on with them:

Donna Karan Black Cashmere
Shiseido Feminite du Bois
10 Corso Como 10CC
YSL NU EDP
Fendi Theorema
Givenchy Organza Indecence
Coty Wild Woods
Caron Pour Un Homme
Guerlain Shalimar (parfum only)
Serge Lutens Santal Blanc
Armani Mania
Chopard Madness
Gres Cabaret
Diesel Green Feminine
D&G Feminine

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post #8 of 11
12/21/06 at 7:13am
Thread Starter 
Thanks Moondeva. Ok, so I guess I'm not one step closer to understanding chypres! Both of those scents impressed me greatly for how unique they are.

I'm still very curious about chypre. Going to go read up a bit on Osmoz right now.
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post #9 of 11
12/21/06 at 7:47am
Those are great links, Purplebird. I like some fragrances in each category, but according to Michael Edwards' directory I gravitate most toward the "fresh" and "crisp" sub-categories. I do enjoy fragrances that are uplifting. I have always loved chypres. Even as a young girl I gravitated toward them, though didn't know they were called "chypre". I don't know about the "cerebral" or "eccentric" part of being a chypre lover. Maybe it's true somewhat, but I think it's a bit of a stereotype.
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post #10 of 11
12/21/06 at 8:06am
mochi 227, I am not as knowledgable by far as moondeva and sometimes that helps. I am closer to being a beginner, maybe I can help some. Oakmoss. That's the one to look for. Maybe they use synthetic now, I don't know. But a chypre will usually list or have that ingredient. I don't know if a chypre always has oakmoss, but when in doubt, look up that note. If I'm far off, someone will correct me.
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post #11 of 11
12/21/06 at 9:17am
I like the Michael Edwards site. It really helps with pronunciation too.
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