- The rise of "Bespoke" fragrance services -

Great article - thanks zztopp.

Luca Turin likes Brut, huh? That was a surprise. My dad loves Brut.

I too would welcome a Brut EDP but it would have to be in the glass bottle.

Great article, thanks ZZ.

I think the point about customers not being able to articulate what they want is a good one.

But is good, old spice is good and blue stratos is good.

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It seems to me Mr. Turin was arguing against the "snobbery"/elitism of it all:

Some experts, however, are unconvinced about the bespoke trend. “I think it’s total crap,” says Luca Turin, a leading fragrance authority and author of The Secret of Scent: Adventures in Perfume and the Science of Smell. “Imagine asking a writer to write a novel specially for you; it’s ludicrous. I’m violently opposed to the snobbery of this thing. Perfume is like beer; it’s an industrial product.”

Part of Turin’s objection is that the talent of a great master should be limited in this way to the benefit of the few rather than the many. “Composing a really serious fragrance takes a year or a year and a half for a good perfumer, so what a waste to have him make it for a Cartier private client; why not make it for Cartier instead?” He admits that his feelings are “really a matter of pure jealousy. I don’t want them to work for some rich woman in New York who wants to have a unique perfume. I want Jean-Michel to be doing the next Joy.”

He also feels there are “so many good fragrances on the market” – among which he includes the likes of Jennifer Lopez’s offering and even Brut – that most people should be able to find their perfect one from what’s available. And, he says, “if you were really good enough to explain to a perfumer exactly what you want you’d probably be good enough to compose it yourself”.

The words in bold are so good that I made it my new signature... I agree with Luca Turin entirely.

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Where has he ever said this, or said anything that implies it?

edit: ELUARD beat me to this question by a minute!


Really? What's the evidence that he thinks this?

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Uhh J-Lo's frags are not bespoke fragrances for J-Lo, they are commercially available fragrances. Being against bespoke fragrances for anyone, does not mean being against celebrity fragrance lines.

(I have to think ZZ that you are just stirring here, because you do not normally post something so obviously wrong. But I agreed with you about Turin's faux common man stuff — that was hilarious given the direction his tastes actually run.)

This seems to suffer from the very same problem that Turin himself sometimes suffers from - making imperious pronouncements without offering an explanation of why, therefore lacking in any instructive value.

But even when he fails to instruct and comes off rather arrogantly, Turin is still consummately articulate and entertaining. That's worthy of some respect in my book.

Well, the other part of his argument is that if something is really good everyone should be able to enjoy it and that part of his argument is hardly elitist.

The only good argument I can see for bespoke fragrances is that you may be able to make something with no expense spared on constituents, something that is not commercially viable. Or that breaks EU restrictions on the use of particular oils. But even there it isn't a very strong argument for bespoke.

I think bespoke is just a way of fleecing the rich. But I'm on the side of Turin here: I want them to make better commercially available product so that they fleece people like us!

I did read the article, thanks. As others have pointed out, you've clearly misread it. A J-lo fragrance is not "for" J-lo, it's for anyone who wants to buy it (and can afford it). This is in total contrast to the case of a bespoke fragrance being exclusively for the person who commissions it.

But I agree with zztopp that it's not worth getting worked up over the idea that great perfumers are spending their time making bespoke fragrances. There's plenty of good stuff reaching the open market.

I wasn't aware that "Bespoke" meant that it was exclusive to the person who made it. In that case, I was wrong about Luca. I thought "Bespoke" just meant a fragrance based on someone.

I have always appreciated Luca Turins writings on perfume. On his blog, which was active for the last half of 2005, Luca Turin had a little more to say about bespoke perfumes. Here is a link for downloading Luca Turin's blog:

www.flexitral.com/research/Blogtextweb.pdf

Once you have the blog text downloaded, search for the word bespoke or go directly to pages 126 and 127 in order to read Luca Turins comments about bespoke perumes. Here is some of what he has to say:

From an aesthetic standpoint, perfume is a shared, industrial product, more like wine, music and books than like a painting or a jewel, and there is something ugly about asking a great artist to do one just for you. From a commercial standpoint, I couldnt figure out what makes these well-paid professionals (and the houses that employ them) do such a thing. After all, why waste a good idea on some rich bitch when you can have everyone wearing it? I asked around, and some answers emerged. First, the daily grind of the perfumers job, making things that smell good with 100$/kg to spend on the formula, i.e. using ingredients that mostly smell less than great, is getting depressing. All involved in bespoke perfumes relish the opportunity to use great raw materials, ignore all health regulations and travel back in time to the golden age of fragrance.

Yeah, I'm a total prick, lol. I actually agree with him. I should've looked up "bespoke" before I spoke. Did I just accidentally make a pun? =)

Eluard, I am impressed! You have discerned pretty much exactly what Turin discovered when he asked around to figure out why professional perfumers created bespoke fragrances (see the Turin quote in my previous post).

I do believe you are right!

Except that the Malle perfumes are sold commercially and therefore cannot ignore health regulations regarding the ingredients used in the creation of the perfume.

I tend to agree with Turin. IMO, part of a fragrances appeal is the mystique of the house, the nose and the packaging. Also, it's about branding. In the end, like the French Couture concept, you will have a handful of clients that are rich enough and vain enough to order Bespoke Creations and perhaps the houses will make enough money to break even. But, like Graucho Marx said, "I would never want to be a member of a club that would have me for a member".

Yes, but now I am puzzled about Turin's outburst! How could he have listened to the "noses" and been sympathetic to what they say, and then turn around in this interview and ignore their opinion and damn all bespoke creations? Or was the blog entry written after the interview was done. (Surely not.)

See Turin's blog entry on p.126 - posted July 05, 2005

I would assign more credence to what Luca Turin himself wrote on his blog rather than what he was quoted as saying in an article stitched together by a different writer. On his blog, Turin had total control over the communication of what he wanted to say. On the other hand, Turins quotes in the article written by someone else could have been taken out of context and inadvertently twisted and interpreted in a way that didnt exactly express Turins thoughts and feelings.

My exact sentiments...

As soon as I read that the bespoken fragrance will last your lifetime at one of the houses, I wondered, what if I want to break it off with my bespoken. What are the house's rules on that. Will I continue to pay, will it revert back to the house to be tryed on the next person who wanders in looking for "bespoke". The public has never smelled the bespokes. Could Turin's own work in the field plus that of other perfumers have resulted in warehouses full of drums of fragrances waiting to be "bespoken" for?

I think the way it works is:- you pay your money and get a very large amount of perfume (with creed it is ten litres) initially. If you want more, you order more later (presumably at a lower cost as no development this time). The formula remains secret and only orderable by you until you die after which the house is free to market it if it so chooses.

I think much of turin's point rests on the quantity issue. Ten litres is a silly quantity of perfume for one person, yet it is financially silly to make less. In fact, it makes financial sense to make more. The actual cost of producing more, once you are producing some, is minimal. The price you pay is largely: 1) for the perfumers time and experience (fair enough in my book) 2) the exclusivity (ridiculous in mine and Turin's books) 3) a relatively small cost for the materials and packaging.

I also agree that most people are in no way qualified to make the decisions necessary. I am more aware than most people (non basenoters) about notes, construction, development etc but know I do not know enough to develop my own fragrance. I know some people here do make their own concoctions, they may know more, but I suspect many of them are working on learning that which a highly trained and experienced nose knows.

I can understand if you know a lot about what you want and have the money to burn (e.g. someone here may be looking for an ultimate rose accord for them and have a good idea they want it minty and fresh) but these must surely be very few.

(After the revolution, bespoke perfume services will only be available to those with at least two years basnotes membership, over 2000 posts, and proof from their bank that they have put their livliehood at risk by overspending on the failed search for that which they would like created .)

I guess a parallel to Turin's case would be a great soprano who was under exclusive contract to a "wealthy prince" only to perform for him---the world would be deprived of her talent. Or if Van Gogh's life's works sat in a greedy collector's private home, never shown to the public---how sad. You can imagine the character: "It's mine, all mine hah-hah!"

It seems in Turin's mind, there are a limited number of great "noses" in the world who are able to create masterpiece scents. I think it's another expression of over-inflated ego extremes you see these days......paying $30,000-$80,000 for my very own personal perfume, c'mon. My father would say that's just an extension of an old adage, though: "A fool and his money are soon parted."