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Calling Cartier Must Experts!

post #1 of 24
3/10/07 at 7:02pm
Thread Starter 
I'm hoping someone in the know will be able to help me with my question.

I found Cartier Must in a 30 ml. (1 oz.) EdT size packaged in a black box. The scent is different from the 50 ml. silver-boxed EdT I tried in the same store, and they were asking about $15 more for the black-box version. The SA claimed it was a "hard-to-find" product. The silver-box scent was sharper and had more projection and more woody notes right off the bat, whereas the black-box version stayed closer to the skin and had deeper, slightly fruity ambergris notes. The black-box scent also lasted much longer on my skin and dried down to a very clear ambergris-vanillic note; also, the color of the juice is much deeper, a sort of orange-rust color.

The question is: Does anyone know what the difference is between these two? My surmise is that the black-box scent is the original 1981 version or perhaps a limited edition. Even though the box and bottle both say it's an EdT, it seems to have the persistence of an EdP.

Please do help me with this if you can. Thanks in advance for your kindness!
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post #2 of 24
3/10/07 at 7:07pm
I've never noticed the box, but could it be the L'Essence version?

http://www.basenotes.net/ID26120934.html
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post #3 of 24
3/10/07 at 7:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by corydallas

I've never noticed the box, but could it be the L'Essence version?

http://www.basenotes.net/ID26120934.html

Ah, no; this is *not* Must pour Homme at all. It's the women's version, hence my posting the question here rather than in the men's discussion. But thanks for your reply all the same. So my question remains to be answered. Any help, please?
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post #4 of 24
3/12/07 at 10:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaimeB View Post

I'm hoping someone in the know will be able to help me with my question.

I found Cartier Must in a 30 ml. (1 oz.) EdT size packaged in a black box. The scent is different from the 50 ml. silver-boxed EdT I tried in the same store, and they were asking about $15 more for the black-box version. The SA claimed it was a "hard-to-find" product. The silver-box scent was sharper and had more projection and more woody notes right off the bat, whereas the black-box version stayed closer to the skin and had deeper, slightly fruity ambergris notes. The black-box scent also lasted much longer on my skin and dried down to a very clear ambergris-vanillic note; also, the color of the juice is much deeper, a sort of orange-rust color.

The question is: Does anyone know what the difference is between these two? My surmise is that the black-box scent is the original 1981 version or perhaps a limited edition. Even though the box and bottle both say it's an EdT, it seems to have the persistence of an EdP.

Please do help me with this if you can. Thanks in advance for your kindness!


Your surmises are correct Jaime.

The black box is the classic 1981 formulation. The silver box is the reformulated juice.

The 1981 formulation is an astounding piece of work; it puts niche offerings to shame. One my all time favorites and, IMO, one of a handful of truly great women's fragrances ever made. No wonder they reformulated it; in today's climate and market, there's is no way Cartier could sustain the quality of the ingredients used back in 1981. This is way of all great classics, unfortunately.

scentemental

P.S. Will post about the differences between the two in a longer thread about reformulations sometime in the near future.
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post #5 of 24
3/13/07 at 8:59am
Well...now I'm stumped. I've been looking to order a bottle of this online and most of the bottles I see come in a RED box. Which formulation is this? Is it the same as the new formulation silver box edition? I really want to pick up a bottle of the classic and don't want to make a mistake. Any idea?

Thanks.
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post #6 of 24
3/13/07 at 9:35am
Hi JaimeB,

could it be you are talking about that bottle?

http://www.beautymall.ru/i/160x160/10095.jpg

That was the outfit of the Must edt approximately from the mid 90s , but they changed it to that silver box in the less pretty bottle.

If it's this one, it is definitely not the original version of 1981, because then the edt was a different scent than the perfume and they were promoted to be scents for the daytime (edt) and evening (perfume) layered also. I still have some ads of that, so I know for sure.This original edt looks like this and is now reformulated and called Must II

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...V41773467_.jpg

The differences in the two scents and also the colors can occur because the one in the black box is a couple of years old - Must has often been mentioned for turning darker to an orange brown when aging, the scent is also losing lots of is top notes by the years, at least the bottles I still have.

There has always been a lot of confusion about all the changes they made, hope that helps a bit.
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post #7 of 24
3/13/07 at 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazztweety View Post

Hi JaimeB,

could it be you are talking about that bottle?

http://www.beautymall.ru/i/160x160/10095.jpg

That was the outfit of the Must edt approximately from the mid 90s , but they changed it to that silver box in the less pretty bottle.

If it's this one, it is definitely not the original version of 1981, because then the edt was a different scent than the perfume and they were promoted to be scents for the daytime (edt) and evening (perfume) layered also. I still have some ads of that, so I know for sure.This original edt looks like this and is now reformulated and called Must II

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...V41773467_.jpg

The differences in the two scents and also the colors can occur because the one in the black box is a couple of years old - Must has often been mentioned for turning darker to an orange brown when aging, the scent is also losing lots of is top notes by the years, at least the bottles I still have.

There has always been a lot of confusion about all the changes they made, hope that helps a bit.


I was hoping to leave much of this for a longer post because the history of Must de Cartier is very complicated and there are many bottle and packaging variations. Here are some preliminary points of clarification:

 I am pretty sure that the EDT in the black box is still the vintage formulation. Jaime, I would be very willing to do a sample swap with my vintage Must de Cartier EDT to confirm this.

The second image in the link provided by jazztweety immediately above is certainly not the reformulated version or bottle. It's the bottle of the original edt when it was re-released in a non-refillable format and before it was reformulated and underwent bottle, packaging, and formulation changes nor is it the bottle for Must de Carter II. Here is a better image of such a bottle:

Attachment 104

The original edt and parfum where first offered in the following refillable format and red box:

Attachment 105

With the refillable bottles, the whole outer casing and refill are so beautiful and so elegantly designed. The refill bottle fits within the outer casing and makes a sonorously generous and precise click when you snapped it back in place, and one knows when one hears that click that bottle and outer casing are as carefully executed as one of Cartier’s pieces of jewelry as is the constitution of the original juice. I can say for certain that this is the original 1981 EDT juice, and it is what I have. I also know this to be a fact because I purchased the same refillable bottle in 1981 when Must de Cartier EDT was first released. I don’t know when the switch over to the new, reformulated EDT juice occurred, but Cartier kept producing the refillable version for a while with some changes is the shape of the refillable bottle. I can also say with certainty that the non-refillable bottle shown above (i.e., the first image) is the vintage 1981 formulation.

The parfum was also originally offered in red box but was also released in a black box as part of a ligne voyage series. Jaime, you might want to check that the black box you were looking at was not actually parfum. It is my understanding that smaller (1 oz) amount of the vintage EDT were also offered in the black box format, which would confirm your observations.

Attachment 106

One thing is for certain, though, when you see the following bottle and silver packaging, it’s a reformulation:

Attachment 107

Must de Cartier II is not the reformulated juice of Must de Cartier EDT. I have both Must de Cartier II EDP and Must de Cartier II EDT, and they are not the same as the original or the reformulated juice. Must de Cartier II is an entirely different fragrance in conception and execution. The EDP version--superior to the EDT version--also costs about as much as the original vintage Must de Cartier EDT version, if you can, in fact, find it.

It seems I have uploaded the maximum number of files allowed. See my next post to this thread for images of what the bottles and packaging for Must de Cartier II EDP and EDT look like:

 http://community.basenotes.net/showt...d=1#post994620

I have only touched on the surface of the labyrinthine convolutions which make up the release history of Must de Cartier and its namesakes. I will add more to a more thorough account when I post a thread on reformulated versions in the near future.

scentemental

P.S. If anyone is interested in buying some classic Must de Cartier EDT, private message me, and I'll help you as far as I can in working out if, indeed, it is the classic formulation you are buying.


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post #8 of 24
3/13/07 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scentemental View Post

I was hoping to leave much of this for a longer post because the history of Must de Cartier is very complicated and there are many bottle and packaging variations. Here are some preliminary points of clarification:


Thank you very much for posting this information and the pictures. I've always loved Must de Cartier, and purchased a small bottle of the parfum from ebay, but I was never certain of which vintage I had. You have helped me clarify things.
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post #9 of 24
3/13/07 at 11:22am
Here are the images of bottles and packaging for Must de Cartier II EDP and EDT versions:

First, there is the refillable bottle and packaging of Must de Cartier II EDP:

Attachment 109 Attachment 110

One can see a packaging change from the first image to the second.

Here an image of a Must de Cartier II EDP bottle in a regular spray format:

Attachment 111

Here an image of a Must de Cartier II EDT bottle and packaging in a regular spray format:

Attachment 112

scentemental



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post #10 of 24
3/13/07 at 11:41am
Wow, Scentemental, talk about a collection!
I pulled out my Douglas catalog from the 80ies:

originally there was (quick translation by myself)
1.Must der Jour edt, green and sporty (with the red cap and it had a black paper box around a red box inside as far as I remember??? in travel version)
2. Must de Soir perfume, the ambery vanillic one we all know (with black cap in travel version)
due to certain common ingredients they may be layered at your own likings

Around 1994 the original edt was d'd, Cartier came up with Must II

In 1996 they came out for the first time with a lighter version of the evening Must also called Eau de Toilette, when the original edt was already d'd.
(getting dizzy...)

The original edt was not a lighter concentration of the perfume, it was a different scent.

The upper link I sent is the ambery vanillic edt from 1996.

All the Must versions are listed here, but you'll have to scroll down a little to also find the 1996 version:

http://www.perfumeworld.net/englishs/km/kmzdata.htm
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post #11 of 24
3/13/07 at 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazztweety View Post

Wow, Scentemental, talk about a collection!
I pulled out my Douglas catalog from the 80ies:

originally there was (quick translation by myself)
1.Must der Jour edt, green and sporty (with the red cap and it had a black paper box around a red box inside as far as I remember??? in travel version)
2. Must de Soir perfume, the ambery vanillic one we all know (with black cap in travel version)
due to certain common ingredients they may be layered at your own likings

In 1996 the came out for the first time with a lighter version of the evening Must also called Eau de Toilette, when the original edt was already d'd.
(getting dizzy...)

The original edt was not a lighter concentration of the perfume, it was a different scent.

The upper link I sent is the ambery vanillic edt from 1996.

All the Must versions are listed here, but you'll have to scroll down a little to also find the 1996 version:

http://www.perfumeworld.net/englishs/km/kmzdata.htm



Thanks for the info. jazztweety. I had forgotten about perfumeworld.net.

I sure would like to get a look at that Douglas catalog from the eighties.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazztweety View Post

The original edt was not a lighter concentration of the perfume, it was a different scent.

Yes, indeed, they are quite different. They were originally designed to be two entirely different fragrances that were supposed to complement each other and where going to be released under the names of Must de Cartier Parfum de Soir for the parfum evening wear version and Must de Cartier Parfum de Jour for the EDT version daytime wear version. The two versions were developed independently of each other with the parfum version as the original conception, and I believe it was developed by perfumers from Givaudan, and the EDT version by perfumers from Firmenich. Eventually, the EDT version was brought into line with the parfum version, but is certainly not a lighter version of the parfum. The names Parfum de Soir and Parfum de Jour were, if I remember correctly, not finally chosen because of difficulties registering those two names. I believe, although I can't remember the source for this, that the original formulation for Must de Cartier EDT was discontinued in 1993, and on the basis of this I would say that the 1996 release you quote above is not the vintage formulation.

Finally, in regard to nomenclature: the Basenotes Directory has the parfum version listed as Must de Cartier and the EDT version as Must de Cartier Jour; both are incorrect. It should read Must de Cartier Parfum for the parfum version and Must de Cartier EDT for the vintage EDT version.

Apparently, the parfum version has recently been re-released in its original formulation, and although I haven't sampled the newly released parfum, I remain skeptical that it's exactly the same.

scentemental


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post #12 of 24
3/13/07 at 1:03pm

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Quote:
I sure would like to get a look at that Douglas catalog from the eighties.



There you go

Unfortunately my scanning didn't turn out too well, but the story you can't read is the one about the two entirely different perfumes. The catalog is from 87, and I have even older ones -YIKES!!!!! Am I that old already Well, I got into it very young...
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post #13 of 24
3/13/07 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazztweety View Post


--------------------------------------


There you go

Unfortunately my scanning didn't turn out too well, but the story you can't read is the one about the two entirely different perfumes. The catalog is from 87, and I have even older ones -YIKES!!!!! Am I that old already Well, I got into it very young...

Fantastic. Thanks so much jazztweety. I really appreciate your time and effort. This page at least confirms that the they offered the parfum version in the black box and that all the bottles featured in the add are bottles that contain the vintage formulation.

Again, thanks jazztweety; this is a truly fantastic and beautiful add. I feel like a fragrance archaeologist whose just unearthed a major discovery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueIsis View Post

Thank you very much for posting this information and the pictures. I've always loved Must de Cartier, and purchased a small bottle of the parfum from ebay, but I was never certain of which vintage I had. You have helped me clarify things.

You're more than welcome BlueIsis. My pleasure entirely.

scentemental.


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post #14 of 24
3/13/07 at 4:29pm
Thank you Scentemental & Jazztweety. I've been so confused about which bottle & box was the vintage formulation. Thanks to your abundantly informative posts...I was finally(today) able to purchase with confidence a 3.3oz EDT vintage formulation splash bottle!

I can't express enough how grateful I am to have such a wealth of knowledge available to me through people such as yourselves. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us. What a valuable resource you are to this community.
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post #15 of 24
3/13/07 at 4:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraySwan View Post

Thank you Scentemental & Jazztweety. I've been so confused about which bottle & box was the vintage formulation. Thanks to your abundantly informative posts...I was finally(today) able to purchase with confidence a 3.3oz EDT vintage formulation splash bottle!

I can't express enough how grateful I am to have such a wealth of knowledge available to me through people such as yourselves. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us. What a valuable resource you are to this community.

Always very happy to help out when I can GraySwan. Thank you for your very kind words, and enjoy your vintage Must de Cartier EDT.

scentemental

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post #16 of 24
3/16/07 at 11:09am
Dear all,

my pleasure if I could come up with that little contribution for you. Now finally I'd be very curious to know which of all the bottles bottle JaimeB found?
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post #17 of 24
5/10/07 at 7:40pm
i have been wearing Le Must perfume for years yummy
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post #18 of 24
5/11/07 at 1:08pm
I have nothing to contribute other than this: Many years ago when I was in junior high (the mid-eighties) I smelled Must and that olfactory memory stayed with me for many, many years. I actually remember applying it to my own skin (I was a little embarassed, 'cause I knew it was women's perfume, but I did anyway...) and it was summertime so the scent really blossomed in the Miami humidity. I can see the bus stop I was standing at that day, where I caught the bus to school. I can remember the patch of grass where I stood. All of the memories are tied to the scent of Must.

The person who wore the Must (a family friend) just died last year (quite quickly in fact, from cancer). Every single time I smell Must I feel the tears coming to my eyes...

Now that I've read the post, perhaps I smelt the old formulation those many years ago. It was quite a remarkable moment in my scent history (kind of like smelling Fahrenheit by Dior for the 1st time) and I'm glad to remember it so vividly.
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post #19 of 24
5/11/07 at 3:34pm
hey kids - what about the extrait bottle in the leather fitted case? can't call this thread complete without pics of that

I'm not proud to admit that i stole a bottle of this from the bathroom at a wild party when i was a drunk, immature high schooler. i guess i *am* proud to say that i had such exquisite taste as to steal such a great scent though. wow. what a frag ... for some reason didn't help me with the ladies though
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post #20 of 24
11/12/09 at 11:10am
Oh my god, I finally have some information about my beloved Must De Cartier. I need to reread all of this. It IS truly confusing and honestly gave me a headache trying to follow.....I STILL am not sure about something. Please help, if possible. I think, after reading all of the above, the Must EDT I have been searching for is the one released in 1996. Is this the one you might describe as "Ambery Vanilla"-?
So, is THAT version discontinued? When inquiring to purchase, would one refer to the "1996 EDT Must De Cartier"? Anyone know who sells it?
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post #21 of 24
10/31/11 at 3:14am
Does anyone know if this is vintage Parfum Must De Cartier (Ligne Voyage)?
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post #22 of 24
3/26/12 at 12:32pm
Can ANYONE tell me where to purchase the original Parfum!!!
No place is too far, no expense shall be spared~to find the original 1981 Parfum.
TY
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post #23 of 24
3/26/12 at 12:38pm
Can ANYONE tell me where to purchase the original Parfum!!!
No place is too far, no expense shall be spared~to find the original 1981 Parfum.
TY
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post #24 of 24
3/26/13 at 10:30am
I received this perfume as a gift, but I can not find anything about him. Is it a version from 1981?
Therefore I ask for help if anyone knows something more.

Attachment 19850Attachment 19851
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