Overrated Actors

I'm not even certain where to begin. In a way, though, I feel bad about even doing this because people have got so insane about self-expression, that they never get around to developing as people, so there often isn't much TO express. Most younger or attractive actors seem to rely on "being themselves", which doesn't get you very far. So, you get Winona Ryder giving a credible performance of an annoying person in "Reality Bites", and making me want to leave the theatre screaming in the so-called "Bram Stoker's Dracula". And please don't get me started on Ethan Hawke or Keanu Reeves.

Richard Dreyfus gets on my last nerve; likewise Dianne Wiest. And to quote
(I think) Pauline Kael, Katherine Hepburn ran the gamut of emotions "from A to B."

Keanu Reeves
Ewan McGregor

Will Ferrel
Ben Stiller
Leonardo Dicaprio

tobey mcguire is probably the worst in recent memory. Watching him onscreen I doubt he could fog a mirror let alone act.

John Travolta. I don't get it.

it was tobey maguire who moped around in the Ring movies? Every time I saw the dope he looked like he was having a panic attack.

Morgan Freeman can act.

and would someone tell me why Cate Blanchett? who is she? does she have damaging pictures of people? I can 't stop here. When I see Cate Blanchett I start thinking of what I need to perform ritual japanese suicide.

What 'bout Cleant Eastwood having just two expressions (with the hat or without it)?
Far better as a director thanks God!

What is Chloe Sevigny doing on screen besides making faces?

Tom Cruise has bugged me long before he started jumping on couches. It seems to me spews out his lines then freezes for a still shot. It's a motion picture Tom, m o t i o n...

Nah Toby Maguire is Spiderman. Elijah Woods was Frodo in LOTR. They have a similar look though.

And I'll give you Chloe Sevigny.
Winona Ryder has had her good moments but is truly awful in a lot of other movies. She was dreadful in Alien Resurrection. Then again, whoever came up with the idea of an emo android needed a good kicking as well.

Rosamund Pike's another one. Bad in Bond, worse in Doom. And why is her hairline so low?

Action heroes are generally bad but then they are action heroes so I don't much care about that. Still, I never did get why they gave Jason Statham an American accent in Transporter because he just can't do it. He must sound to Americans like Dick Van Dyke sounds to us Brits.

Jennifer Anniston!
No matter what she's in, she's "Rachel" .

Less time at the salon - more time with the acting coach, Jenny!!

Agree an the Tom Cruise and the Jennifer Aniston, they just can't shake their own personalities when in character. (only exception might be Tom in Interview with the vampire)

and i'll add: Brad Pitt, the man just can't act!

I have always wondered about the appeal of Robert Redford. He ruined the remake of Great Gatsby and who'd ever think he was supposed to be an Englishman in Out of Africa? I had hoped that age would improve him, but as the Horse Whisperer, he still couldn't carry it off.

And the yellow hair? Please, isn't he about 70? Cary Grant and Spencer Tracy never had to go the lady Clairol route.

Another who irks me is Meg Ryan

Adam Sandler and every comedian who left SNL, made 3 movies that folks slept through, and just because a few of the original lineup were funny no matter how bad the script was.
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Michael Berryman in those 'Hills have Eyes' movies. The guy has 50% of the job done just showing up and he gets 10 to 15 years off between movies. You'd think he'd just try a little harder.

Jeez!

Compared to the recently deceased ( died after 2000) Katherine Hepburn, Maria Schell, and Alec Guinness, and--aw hell let's go back to the 90's and also name my fave lunatic: Klaus Kinski. --- Naw, make it tougher. Go to the 80's and also mention Peter Sellers and Lawrence Olivier. Whereupon an easier question becomes:

What living American actors AREN'T overrated?

Off hand I can think of Johnny Depp, Charlize Theron, ( S. African, does that count?) Dustin Hofman, Kevin Spacey, Billy Bob Thorton, Gwyneth Paltrow, Meryl Streep and Robert Duvall.

There are more, of course!

But it takes a while and much harder effort to think of them than to think of the likes of Steven Seagal, Arnie, Stalllone, Eastwood, Redford, Cruise, Travolta and co. (I'm too much of a gentleman to name the ladies)

Hooray for Hollywood,
Where you're terrific if you're only good . . .

Cheers,

Mario.

[QUOTE=Mario Justiniani;998681]Jeez!

Off hand I can think of Johnny Depp, Charlize Theron, ( S. African, does that count?) Dustin Hofman, Kevin Spacey, Billy Bob Thorton, Gwyneth Paltrow, Meryl Streep and Robert Duvall.

There are more, of course!
Robert DeNiro, Al Pacino, and most people love Jack Nicholson, although my take on him is he's pretty one-dimensional, playing the evil/lovable rogue, chewing up the scenery.

Don't get me started on Paltrow. She is so dreary and insipid.

Maybe we should divide the topic into two categories: A)Those who truly cannot become someone other than themselves but make tons of money being themselves (Redford, Hepburn, Clunt, Travolta, Cruise, Pitt, Streisand ...dare I say it? John Wayne?) and B) Those who try but don't make it and annoy the hell out of at least one seething BNer (Diane Keaton!!!)

(Oh. I feel so much better now!) :bounce:

Along with Jim Jarmusch. My university boyfriend dragged me along to see Stranger than Paradise and I have been more bored in my life.

I had my friend and his wife over and as they were leaving it was foggy as hell and just one of those nights, bare with me here. I put my arm on ny buddy's shoulder and told him I had something he had to see.
We sat in silence and watched Eraserhead. After the end he got up and looked at me and said' "don't ever do that to me again"

Totally agree on Woody Allen. His first funny movies were great - started to go south with Sleeper....but Bananas and Take the Money and Run...hilarious. Seems he began to make the kind of movies he used to make fun of....

As for Diane - the only good thing she ever did was a deodorant commercial way back in the sixties. Another case of self-absorption gone astray....

(This is all so therapeutic...:bounce::bounce.

if you work with woody you do shtickt. his friends know that and go along with it. shadows and fog appeared as a short story in the new yorker years before he made the film

Has anyone mentioned Kevin Costner yet? No? Well, oddly enough though i've enjoyed several of the films he was in, as an actor i don't appreciate him. Those films i enjoyed on account of others.

Also, here's an interesting story for you. Promoting his latest film at the time, "Dances with Mailbags" or whatever it was called, he happened to pop into what was probably the most famous brothel in Amsterdam. I think it's still around. All the girls agreed he was a bad fuck.

That's all i have to say about that.

Paltrow was ' That English Actress' to some Brit friends in '98 when she did 'Sliding Doors.' They were astounded when I told them she was American, as her her accent was so precise (True, she lives in London, but let's not quibble) and if Hepburn 'played herself' in "The Lion in Winter ", it's a good argument for doing so; Woody wrote, acted and directed 'Crimes and Misdemeanors' one of the best and darkest film noirs of all time. Nicholson, despite-or because of the miracle of modern pharmaceuticals, often forgets that he's not in 'The Shining' ( his best role, really) the man doesn't just chew the scenery, he eats it and spits it out. De Niro has always been good, but hasn't taken the chances that Hoffman has. He has 'played himself' much more than Dustin. On the other hand Pacino has attempted double somersaults from the high wire, sometimes splattering (Looking for Richard?) sometimes scoring.

Say Hello to My Little Friend


Mario.

P.S. Poor Costner probably injured his sexual equipment when he fell from whichever turnip truck brought him to Hollywood.

Renee Zellweger bugs me. I liked her in "Chicago" because that character is always how I perceive her.
Not much of a Cameron Diaz fan, either. Or Julia Roberts, except in "Sleeping With the Enemy." What was that ridiculous film in which she played a professor at (?)Smith during the 50'? Talk about a casting error.

Cut it out, Vezerne! My sister is almost Cameron's twin. She's a bit of a bitch, she got all the looks in the family.

Kidding ... about the swear word.

... and I envy her the blue eyes, i swear my mom was getting some action on the side.

PS: I caught "Chicago" at the Tuchinski in Amsterdam, good one! Loved the Dutch subtitles.

Obviously most of these people are considered very good looking, especially the women.
I'm not saying they're not hot; their acting skills or their personal mannerisms grate on my nerves. Cameron Diaz is certainly beautiful, as I'm sure your sister is, as well!

Beautiful, huh? Think the Fendi model is beautiful? Want to see her in a few more images? Diaz is beautiful? Maybe. It's possible. But if i thought this was the proper forum, i'd show you what beauty is. Unfortunately, it's not.

PS: Come back, dammit! I'm kidding, it's not an order. You have a practical side, i value that.

OK -let's get this straight: Whomever you sis looks like, she's beautiful, of course The rest of it, well, is a matter of taste...and I don't really care what starlets/actresses look like, except I would give a LOT to look like Catherine Deneuve. But that's off topic.

Well, if you say so.

Nah, i wasn't joking, but it's an unqualified sort of truth. Let's just say that if i choose a particular photo of Cameron and a particular photo of what's-her-name, the similarities are striking. However, we're polar opposites in most ways. And i could definitely make blue eyes work for me, dammit!

No, guys, you can't have her number. She's shacking up with someone ... they seem to get along.

But anyway, Deneuve when? No, i don't think this is entirely off-topic. I mean, if there's no conversation, this post will just slide off the front page and i can think of far less interesting things that would take its place (heh).

Hi Chess Man,
Sorry to annoy you; I'm a Cate fan. I really enjoyed her in the movie Elizabeth. Guess it's time for seppuku, right?

I'll annoy other folks by saying that I actually liked Adam Sandler in The Wedding Singer and Spanglish, though I initially detested him for the "idiot" roles. Bonus - he hosted Letterman last night(!), and he said people keep asking him when he's doing another "retard" movie.

Agreed about Costner. If it's a role that suits his personality, he's fine. But he can't do anything else but run the gamut from A to B. He's so dopey and self-absorbed that in one interview he went on and on about his Really Important role in the Big Chill, which was cut, of course.

Dave
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You really hit my favorite overrated person: Julia Roberts. She IS competent. I liked Erin Brockovich. But there are plenty of better actresses. Next to Helen Mirren, Meryl Streep, Judi Dench, or many other people, even Hilary Swank, she's just in the middle of the pack.

Of course, she's hot, so she gets the biggest dollars. The double-standard at work.

Okay, I'm going to now say the unspeakable: Meryl Streep bugs me, too.
A critic in Chicago once mentioned her "accent-mongering." Something strikes me about her as being insufferably smug.
Catherine Deneuve is still pretty damn good-looking, even as the older alcoholic babe in "Place Vendome."
I think Isabelle Huppert is a very good actress. She has done all sorts of roles quite convincingly - from the punky moll in "Loulou" to the uptight psychotic piano teacher in "Pianiste." And many things in between.

Well, my question was really regarding your wish to look like her. Was curious as to the when. Have you seen "Indochine"? It's not bad.

Yes, I liked Indochine quite a bit. I thought you were referring to the fact that she has visibly aged (a little).
It's interesting you bring up that movie. I also have adopted a daughter who is racially different than me (Us, I mean, mustn't forget Vezer Ur). Haven't thought about that for a while. Saw the movie before Celia came our way.
Unfortunately, I still don't look like CDN very much. Nor do I own a rubber plantation.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Woddy Allen's female actors have won a SLEW of Oscars, and Leonardo gave one of his best performances in one of his films..."Celebrity" or something...Allen, despite what you think of his films, gets AMAZING performances out of his actors and actresses, from Keaton to Michael Caine to Mira Sorvino (Oscar) to Scarlett Johansen to Sean Penn, to Mia Farrow, to Mariel Hemmingway, to well, Jesus. The list is way too long. Check out the actors in "Hannah and Her Sisters."

Even today, every "happening" young actor in Hollywood would give anything to be tapped for a WA movie. He is the penultimate "actors''" director.

Eluard, you are being unfair; Matty-boy CANNOT have a thought, as his movements are clearly generated by pulling one of those strings in the back that have a ring attached. I'm impressed that they've moved beyond getting more than "mama" and crying noises out of this doll.
I hope that the impression this man(?) creates is actually a carefully considered public persona, and that, behind the perpetually open mouth and glassy eyes is, in fact, an interesting and intelligent human with a sense of humour and a fine imagination. But I'm not holding my breath.

I'm afraid I'm with Eluard on this one. I used to like Woody when I was younger. And he has made some good films. He is still revered in Europe.

After awhile it seemed like he was making the same movie over and over. His usual parade of neuroses finally became very tedious, and the requisite part near the end of the movie (when he's really addressing the camera) and making his Big Statement is so annoying, like anyone who corners you so they can pontificate. As with any pontificator, if the pontificatee likes what they're hearing, they'll like the movie, I suppose. Even his particular NY accent became intolerable after awhile. I will say that I think he's made just enough variations on his Theme (some of them good) that he still remains popular to the already converted.

Though NY city is certainly one of the most stimulating places on the planet, Woody's neurotic inability to be anywhere else probably contributes to his limitations.
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Though I like Meryl Streep, I do agree with Vezerne that sometimes you think, "Geez, another accent??" Groan. It's a fine line between the accent being integral and necessary to the character, or being a chance to just display virtuosity.

You guys are continuing to debate Allen as a director as opposed to the performances of his actors, which was what my reply to E. was about.

No offense, my friend, but I do know cinema...I have a BA in film from a major university...not that I have anything to prove to a perfect stranger on the internet!

But even if I didn't, I think I'm entitled to think Allen gets fine performances out of his actors without being insulted.

I could point out a slew of examples, and in fact, did.

So, E., why don't you point out actors who have had the life sucked out of them by being in a WA film? I'm really interested.

I remember reading somewhere that Allen had directed more Oscar-winning actors/actresses than any other director, ever--living or dead. I'm going to do some research on this to find out if it's true.

Do Oscars mean anything? Yes and no. While there can be wide disagreement on who wins and who doesn't, I think it's true that, in any given year, the roster of nominees in the best actor/supporting actor roles are people who have given pretty impressive performances.

Look at this year's winners...Forrest Whitaker, Alan Arkin, Helen Mirran...did THEY deserve an Oscar? Are they really fine actors? I think so.

Look at the big picture/longer view...Oscar's choices vindicate themselves by the fact that Hepburn, Olivier, Streep and other real actors win Oscars as opposed to saying, oh, David Cassidy.

With apologies to Mr. Cassidy's fans, of course. One would so hate to offend anyone.

Oh, and by the way...Allen's "Match Point" was obviously a dramatic depature from his New York jew neurosis schtick, which was a welcome departure, and proves that he CAN move beyond his so-called limitations..he just choses not to. Like a writer, Allen makes films about what he knows. Same with Spike Lee, whose films rarely move out of NYC.

I also got a kick out of E.'s comments that no one is willing to admit that the guy's lost it...in fact, they have. WA's films are largely--make that overwhelmingly--ignored by the American public.

Actors don't flock to him because they are going to make a lot of money; they work--often for nothing--for the opportunity to work for someone whom they think is a great director. Tell Julia Roberts and Scarlett and Leonardo and Sean and Michael Caine and Jeff Daniels and every other actor over the decades who has worked for him to explain themselves to your satisfaction. By the way, the statement that WA makes his actors appear neurotic/New Yorky is just absolutely not true, and reveals your ignorance, not mine, about film--or at least this particular subject.

You would have to ask the Europeans why them admire him...particularly the French...ask 'em about Jerry Lewis while you're at it! Now THAT'S a mystery!

[QUOTE=Eluard;1000539]Yes, I agree, I expressed my disagreement too strongly I apologise for that. But your 'couldn't be more wrong' was a clear instigation to fire back in the same vein.

Accepted, and back atcha. My reply to your post was unnecessarily provocative.

The funny thing is, I'm not even a FAN of WA's movies. His "acting" makes me cringe, his range is, obviously, limited, and his "humor" appeals to a very small portion of the movie-going public.

I can't remember the last time I actually paid to see one of his films in a theatre, but I'll usually rent his latest offering when the video store has run dry...

I would argue, though, that the reason so many "hot" and/or esteemed actors jump at the chance to appear in his movies is because he DOESN'T give them "direction," at least in the traditional mode. In my opinion (of course) this mode of "directing" has worked, more often, for the actors in his films, than not.

Again, my apologies.

I happen to have caught "Deconstructing Harry" on cable tonight. It did suck me in although I have sort of boycotted WA's films for the last dozen years or so. Paulie Walnuts (Sopranos) had a bit part.
Ever since "Manhattan" it has struck me that Allen uses great background music to make his films hang together. He is a musician and has good taste in that regard; most of his films would be unwatchable (for me) without the scores.
And he is extremely self indulgent.

Wow. I'm surprised. I really like so many of W.A's films.
I noticed in 'Everyone Says I Love You' there was only ONE close-up in the entire film (towards the end in Julia Robert's apt) And that the actors spoke lines off-camera for brief moments and then the camera picked them up again--very stylized and fluid.
Granted it's not the camera virtuosity moves of a Scorcese.

(Whom I greatly admire though I snoozed through 'The Departed'--I honestly couldn't tell Di Caprio apart from Matt in several scenes and thought Marty was doing some surrealistic Bunuel 'Obscure Object of Desire' thing--having two actors play the same part. )

But Woody is definitely an actor's director.

I'm not Jewish, just nervous and intellectual. I don't live in Manhattan, though I love that crazy city; and I'm not best friends with my ex-wife's husband, while currently dating her sister--so I don't really inhabit Woody's world. But I think he's a helluva writer ( So many, but I'll bring up ' Crimes and Misdemeanors' again.) Yes, he's limited as an actor.

As to France and Jerry Lewis, well I must quote Mort Sahl on that one: " Thomas Jefferson said that every man has two countries: France and his own----and Jerry Lewis just has France. "

btw, I love Helen Merrin.

Cheers,

Mario

I agree about Tom Cruise (I am an anti-fan of his) with only one exception - Rain Man. Even so, it was probably more the dynamics between him and Hoffmann than something he brought to the table.

Cruise is 45 years old going on 16. He's busy fighting the intergalactic demons of the emperor Xenu with his Scientology buddies. Nice enough guy, mediocre actor. Jonny Depp he ain't. Best films: Rain Man, Risky Business, and The Color of Money.

Halfway through 'The Last Samurai' I was hoping Uma Thurman from 'Kill Bill' would show up and slice him apart. But hey, he got paid 75 million for that flick.

" Give the suckers what they want. "---P.T. Barnum

Anthony Newley. Thank God he is gone..

Nicholas Cage...

...*yawn*

... *scratch scratch*

... *phaaaaarrrrrrrrrt!* (pardon me)...

Mr. Cage is clearly not overrated. He gets paid millions to make dopey faces and mumble, how do you over rate that? He is just as he appears to be, a particularly poor actor, and a rather wealthy one at that. I think it's inspirational.

The very fact a 'rubbish' actor can earn millions and be on every 3rd cinematic release says to me he is waaaay overrated. What is it wih him and his goggle eyes that captivates an audience as such?!

..oh, and let's include Paula "My God! Look At Me I'm Acting!" Prentiss in this discussion

Those are interesting choices, but I would have to mention "Born On the 4th of July" (Oscar nomination) and that movie where it rained frogs (another Oscar nomination), directed by Paul Thomas Anderson.He played a Tom Leykus-like woman hater and it was truly an actor's performance, as opposed to his usual snarky/cocky charm routine.

P.T. Anderson and indie director Kevin Smith got in to a huge public argument after that movie was released...Smith said he kept a script of that movie (what the hell was its name?) on his wall as an example of how NOT to make movies!

That was Magnolia (1999)