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In search of Haitian vetiver

post #1 of 23
8/19/07 at 8:07pm
Thread Starter 
I have recently come to the conclusion that I prefer the Haitian variety of vetiver to the Indonesian and Javanese varieties. The scents I prefer at the moment are Ava Luxe, Shambala Tibet; Le Labo, Vetiver 46; and Bois 1920, Classic 1920. What other scents have Haitian vetiver playing a prominent role?
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post #2 of 23
8/19/07 at 8:15pm
The oft mentioned Original Vetiver by Creed, and Mugler COLOGNE by Thierry Mugler both feature nearly the same Haitian vetiver note.
- Rich
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post #3 of 23
8/19/07 at 11:41pm
Go for Original Vetiver (Creed). One of the best summer scents.
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post #4 of 23
8/20/07 at 4:24am
Dosen't Comptoir Sud Pacifique (CSP) make a Haitian Vetiver?
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post #5 of 23
8/20/07 at 4:36am
http://www.millerharris.com/products/vetiver_bourbon/
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post #6 of 23
8/20/07 at 5:17am
Most vetiver fragrances contain Haitian vetiver but it's sometimes hard to discern since the perfume companies often don't identify which sort is being used.

Generally speaking, the best vetiver oil (Bourbon) is produced on Reunion Island, but in terms of quantity, production is dominated by Haiti and Indonesia, the Haitian oil being distinctly better than Indonesian and not far behind the quality of Reunion (Bourbon) oil. The annual production of vetiver oil on Haiti is on average around 100 tons, all of which is exported. Its vetiverol content is usually about 52-53%. Indonesian vetiver oil is produced on the island of Java. Production there is long established and exports in recent years have averaged about 100 tons, placing it alongside the Haitian oil in terms of importance and trade. Like other essential oils produced on Reunion, the locally distilled vetiver oil is widely known by the appellation Bourbon. Bourbon vetiver oil is traditionally the world's best on account of both its odor and the fact that its vetiverol levels are frequently in excess of 65%. Annual production of Bourbon vetiver oil is 20-30 tons, of which approximately three quarters is exported.

An excellent example of Haitian vetiver is Frederic Malle's Vetiver Extraordinaire. A decent example of Indonesian (Javanese) vetiver is Fresco di Vetiver by i Profumi di Firenze. For Bourbon vetiver there's no better representation than Maitre Gantier's Route du Vetiver. L'Artisan Vetiver is also a good example of Bourbon vetiver.

Floris Vetiver is good one. It most likely uses Haitian. The Different Company's Sel de Vetiver contains Haitian. The fragrance is light but well made. Mazzolari Vetiver is excellent. It uses Haitian. Lorenzo Villoresi's is most likely Haitian. Loewe Para Hombre has a prominent vetiver note which is most likely of the Haitian kind. My favorite vetiver fragrance _ also most likely uses Haitian.

I'd like to know what was used in the original Guerlain Vetiver. Same goes for Santa Maria Novella's.
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post #7 of 23
8/20/07 at 8:40am
Thanks for that very informative post, Pluran. It made me think of making travel plans.
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post #8 of 23
8/20/07 at 9:21am
I second the recommendations already mentioned:
Vetiver Extraordinaire by Frederic Malle (I thought you had this on your 'To Buy' list, Michael?)
Route du Vetiver by MPG (I huff this like crack...!)

Those I recommend, not mentioned:

Haitian Vetyver Accord by CB I Hate Perfume
Querelle by Parfumerie Generale (I thought you sampled this recently, no?)
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post #9 of 23
8/20/07 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DustB View Post

It made me think of making travel plans.

Me too. Gotta get down and see those hurricanes. I love heavy weather.


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post #10 of 23
8/20/07 at 9:43am
shhhhh you guys, don't say the H word until November passes
it's bad luck for us Fla people

Not sure which kind of Vetiver it is, but this past week I fell *head over heels* for Montale's Vetiver des Sables. Really a nice dirty, earthy vetiver along the lines of RdV, though made a bit "classier" feeling by the addition of Montale's array of rich spices
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post #11 of 23
8/20/07 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rentboy View Post

shhhhh you guys, don't say the H word until November passes
it's bad luck for us Fla people

Not sure which kind of Vetiver it is, but this past week I fell *head over heels* for Montale's Vetiver des Sables. Really a nice dirty, earthy vetiver along the lines of RdV, though made a bit "classier" feeling by the addition of Montale's array of rich spices

I think Montale's is from Indonesia...given Montales fascination with all 'Indian' (oudh, Indian spices, etc...).
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post #12 of 23
8/20/07 at 1:53pm
There are different varieties of Haitian vetiver.

The wild haitian vetiver is more green and citrusy than earthy. This is the vetiver probably used in Creed Original Vetiver and Guerlain Vetiver.

The non-wild variety is more earthy, woody, denser and less citrusy than the wild haitian vetiver. Probably this is the variety used in Frederic Malle Vetiver Extraordinaire, which is composed of 25% vetiver oil, and little of anything else (except for an at-times irritating ozone note which peeks out sometimes). Creed Vetiver'48 also probably used this variety (it could also be the wild variety), although the vetiver isn't as lonely here as it is in Vetiver Extraordinaire. Infact, it smells like a vetiver J-C Ellena would create. For straight on haitian vetiver, go for VE, for a more mineralic vetiver, Vetiver'48 is excellent.

Indian and indonesian vetivers are the most intense: indonesian vetiver is more smoky than indian vetiver, while the indian vetiver is far more earthy and rooty. My guess is that both Lorenzo Villoresi Vetiver and Montale Vetiver des Sables use the smokier indonesian vetiver. They both share that grainy smoky iodine accord, although its much more bearable to my nose in Villoresi's effort.
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post #13 of 23
8/20/07 at 2:41pm

While the provenance of vetiver oil certainly has a significant bearing on how vetiver smells, in practical terms in modern day perfumery, variations in the scent profile of vetiver have a lot more to do with how individual vetiver oil is processed--what constituents of the essential oil are left in, which ones are intensified/isolated, and also whether or not other aroma chemicals in the fragrance have vetiver-like notes that add to the complexity of the overall vetiver effect. This explains the large variations one finds among vetivers in fragrances more so than does the reality of provenance. Notice the way the use of vetiver is characterized in Frederic Malle's Editions de Parfums Vétiver Extraordinaire created by Dominique Ropion: "Dominique Ropion introduces a new essence of Vetiver, stripped of its bitter edge, which he matches with five woody notes to play up the scent's various facets."

Since it is costly to produce and isolate vetiver compounds synthetically from non-natural sources because of their complexity, most components of vetiver are isolated from the actual vetiver oil itself, and specifically from the isolation of vetiverol, which itself contains a number of other constituents that can further be refined and isolated to produce further "vetiver effects." Vetiver oil, like most essential oils today, is hardly ever used neat in modern day perfumery but, rather, becomes the starting point for other processes of refinement, extraction, and separation for production of odorant constituents, which are then used in specific fragrance applications. Since vetiver is relatively cheap to buy but costly to isolate from non-natural sources, the use of vetiver oil (mainly from Réunion, Java, and Haiti) as a starting point for the production of a host of "vetiver effects" is as much a case of economic necessity as it is a case of consistency and readiness of supply and, of course, a case of the ability to achieve specific, managed, and, most importantly, consistent effects that might not otherwise be achievable from the natural oil given the vagaries of supply (fluctuations in weather, market prices, politics etc.).

Vetiver in modern day fragrances is one of the most chemically manipulated notes in use today and has been so ever since the late 1950s when, shortly thereafter, Jean-Paul Guerlain, for example, used a more highly rectified vetiveryl acetate as the main vetiver constituent in Guerlain Vetiver. Vetiveryl acetate is derived from vetiver oil itself. According to chemist Bo Jensen "vetiveryl acetate, is created by acetylating the sesquiterpene alcohols presents in the oil. It has an elegant, soft, fruity-woody character", and not the smokey, burnt, rough and pungent initial quality that tends to generally dominate the unrefined oil before it begins to dry down.

The higher the vetiverol content of vetiver, the less smoky the vetiver will be. It also tends to be more rooty in nature than the vetiveryl acetate, so that more than likely, for example, MPG's Route de Vetiver probably contains significant quantities of vetiverol in proportion to vetiveryl acetate. Vetivone, another constituent of vetiver oil, is what gives some vetiver notes that rich deep woody peppery note.

scentemental

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post #14 of 23
8/20/07 at 3:04pm
Brilliant as always Scentemental! Thanks...

I have got to order a vetiver. I realized I don't have any (except Querelle, but I don't think it counts because it's so light on the vetiver--to me).
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post #15 of 23
8/20/07 at 4:11pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the suggestions. My thoughts on these are as follows:

Creed OV and Mugler Cologne: I am big fan of both of these but I am looking for scents with more earthy qualities. I apologize for omitting that helpful information in my initial post. However, I plan on spending more quality time with these two in the spring. Great suggestions, Rich, et al.

Vetiver Extraordinaire: Yes, Mike, VE is still on my "Must Buy" list. I failed to mention it in my opening post because I was uncertain as to the derivation of vetiver present in the composition. Thanks to Pluran, Mike, and ZZ for the recommendation. It is by far the best vetiver I have smelled to date. I've been delaying this much desired wardrobe addition for far too long.

Route de Vetiver: I have worn this a couple of times but I need to acquire another decant or sample to be certain if it's for me. To my nose, the most arresting aspect of RdV is the smoky, sharp, edge that blends well with its earthy quality. VE is more meditative and relaxing and RdV taps a primal, energizing vein in me. In addition, MPG never ceases to impress me with the quality and depth of their fragrances.

L'Artisan, Floris Vetiver, TDC Sel de Vetiver, Mazzolari, LV, Loewe: Many thanks, Pluran. My testing work is cut out for me.

Montale Vetiver de Sables: Another I have yet to test. Thanks Rentboy.

Creed Vetiver ('48): One of the few Creeds I have yet to test. ZZ, you make it sound like a timeless classic in your review. Looking forward to this one.

Querelle: I own a bottle. Spicy, wicked, nasty, fun scent. Smells like a motel room I stayed in last October. I like that.

CBIHP Haitian Vetyver accord: My experience with CBIHP accords tells me that this might make a great base for other scents. Thanks for the reminder Mike.


Special thanks the ever-informative, gracious Scentemental for the discourse on the derivation and use of vetiver in modern perfumery. I am now beginning to comprehend the differences I have osberved in many of the vetiver notes I have encountered.
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post #16 of 23
8/21/07 at 9:07am
Paul Smith "Story" is also built around Vetiver, although it doesn't come out in the topnotes, which is more of a grapefruit/ivy thing. It's fantastic for summer.
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post #17 of 23
8/21/07 at 9:30am
OMG and I was hesitant to click on the thread header! Pluran and Scentemental, you f#*&@in' blow me away. Thank god BN still has you. Big MUAHHH
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post #18 of 23
8/21/07 at 10:31am
Don't forget to try the Lorenzo Villoresi Vetiver. It's my favorite earthy vetiver! Perfection. Villoresi's best work! It's the winner in my cabinet for earthy vetiver.

Also excellent are Vetiver Extraordinaire, Vetiver by Dawn Spencer Hurwitz, and French Lover. I've tried to wear MPG's Route d'Vetiver but it's a beast I could not tame!
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post #19 of 23
8/21/07 at 10:53am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzlepuff View Post

Don't forget to try the Lorenzo Villoresi Vetiver. It's my favorite earthy vetiver! Perfection. Villoresi's best work! It's the winner in my cabinet for earthy vetiver.

"Earthy vetiver" you say? You're speaking my language. Suffice it to say the LV Vetiver is now at the top of my test list.

Thanks Buzzlepuff.
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post #20 of 23
8/21/07 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sloan_8013 View Post

"Earthy vetiver" you say? You're speaking my language. Suffice it to say the LV Vetiver is now at the top of my test list.

Thanks Buzzlepuff.

Wore Villoresi's vetiver in Rhodes a few years ago it blended superbly with the sun baked earth and vegetation as i walked down the narrow backlanes of Lindos.
Highly recommended this one as are floris,malles,montales and for a different more fresh and soapy version Adolfo Dominguez similar to Creed's OV but available for a fraction of the price at www.dutyfreepefume.co.uk well it used to be until word got out,lets face it
£10.00 for a 120 ml bottle had to be bargain of the year.
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post #21 of 23
8/21/07 at 12:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenton_t_fox View Post

Highly recommended this one as are floris,malles,montales and for a different more fresh and soapy version Adolfo Dominguez similar to Creed's OV but available for a fraction of the price at www.dutyfreepefume.co.uk well it used to be until word got out,lets face it
£10.00 for a 120 ml bottle had to be bargain of the year.

Haven't tried the Adolfo, but if its similar to OV and Mugler Cologne, then that means Mugler Cologne itself was inspired by the Dominguez
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post #22 of 23
9/3/07 at 2:49am
[QUOTE=sloan_8013;1049070]I have recently come to the conclusion that I prefer the Haitian variety of vetiver to the Indonesian and Javanese varieties. The scents I prefer at the moment are Ava Luxe, Shambala Tibet; Le Labo, Vetiver 46; and Bois 1920, Classic 1920. What other scents have Haitian vetiver playing a prominent role?[/QUO

Haitian Vetiver is prominent in VETIVER by Comptir Sud Pacific. Try it and ley us know anything. Also you can find it in the relaunched VETIVER by Givenchy
--------------------------------------
Yes !
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post #23 of 23
9/3/07 at 3:09pm
So, I finally got to try Original Vetiver by Creed today (thanks Robbie!) - impressive. That very soft, cologne-esque opening did not prepare me for the extreme green vetiver intensity that followed. Not anything like my favorite Route du Vetiver (MPG) but an altogether different breed - I can see why people talk highly of this. I get slights whiffs of Selection Verte and Erolfa (maybe its something that these Creeds have alike?) but for now I think this easily stands as high as Guerlain Vetiver does, as far as serious true vetiver scents.

Now I can't wait to try Vetiver Extraordinaire by Malle.

So many vetivers, so little time...
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